FT Rankings 2012


nikiten

Duncan,

Where do you expect to see IESE in the upcoming FT 2012 MBA rankings? Top 8 maybe?

Thanks

Duncan,

Where do you expect to see IESE in the upcoming FT 2012 MBA rankings? Top 8 maybe?

Thanks
quote
ezra

Indeed, but in terms of real salaries (a metric that FT relies on,) it's much better to land a job in the UK than in many places in South Asia or some parts of South America, for instance.

Personally, I think a better metric would be something like "quality of life," that measures post-grad salaries in relative terms as they relate to cost of living and local services provided, or something along those lines.

I think as a top business school, the MBA students should be distributed all of the world but with a high position or high salary with their jobs, rather than just work in UK.

Indeed, but in terms of real salaries (a metric that FT relies on,) it's much better to land a job in the UK than in many places in South Asia or some parts of South America, for instance.

Personally, I think a better metric would be something like "quality of life," that measures post-grad salaries in relative terms as they relate to cost of living and local services provided, or something along those lines.

<blockquote>I think as a top business school, the MBA students should be distributed all of the world but with a high position or high salary with their jobs, rather than just work in UK.</blockquote>
quote
Duncan

nikiten, IESE is already pretty high. Given the weak job market in Spain, I would be surprised to see it in the top eight.

nikiten, IESE is already pretty high. Given the weak job market in Spain, I would be surprised to see it in the top eight.
quote
nikiten

even tough the job market in Spain is weak, IESE managed to allocate 97% of its graduates 3 months after graduation. Isn't this a strength in favour of IESE?
I am a little confused about FT ranking, as I don't know exactly what they take in consideration.
Regarding your comment about schools in Spain going down in the ranking, could you please be more specific? actually the top 2 programmes in Spain have less than 1/3 of their graduates finding jobs in Spain after graduation, so why should they decrease in ranking?

even tough the job market in Spain is weak, IESE managed to allocate 97% of its graduates 3 months after graduation. Isn't this a strength in favour of IESE?
I am a little confused about FT ranking, as I don't know exactly what they take in consideration.
Regarding your comment about schools in Spain going down in the ranking, could you please be more specific? actually the top 2 programmes in Spain have less than 1/3 of their graduates finding jobs in Spain after graduation, so why should they decrease in ranking?

quote
Duncan

Hi nikiten,

MBA salaries in Spain are very low. At IESE, the class of 2009 graduated 34% into the Spanish market, on a total package of 77K. In contrast, alumni working in Eastern Europe are on 100K and in North America on 107K. Only the Spanish schools are graduating such large number of alumni into the Spanish market, in which there is both low salaries and fewer opportunities for rapid progression.

So, in this context, 97% in employment is a very high percentage which reflects the *lower* bargaining power of MBA graduates looking for work in Spain, of which the Spanish business schools have a lot. In contrast, 10% or 20% not being in employment for a few months longer because they are holding out for the perfect offer can lead to a much greater starting salary and a huge lift over the life of a whole career.

So, while it's possible IESE could rise (and it is a strong school) it and other Spanish schools face the unique challenge of a Spanish market which hugely handicaps alumni in terms of salary and progression: two of the key elements in the rankings. If IESE does rise, that will be a tribute to the experience there, and to the schools selectivity.

However, there are other schools which would find it easier to rise, such as the IIMA, ISB, IMD, and CEIBS. They benefit from a vibrant domestic market and the general flight to quality as the recession bites.

Furthermore, since the Spanish market is weakening, IESE will have to work hard even to remain at ninth place: much harder than the other schools I mentioned.

Perhaps take a closer look at the variables used in the FT ranking?

Hi nikiten,

MBA salaries in Spain are very low. At IESE, the class of 2009 graduated 34% into the Spanish market, on a total package of 77K. In contrast, alumni working in Eastern Europe are on 100K and in North America on 107K. Only the Spanish schools are graduating such large number of alumni into the Spanish market, in which there is both low salaries and fewer opportunities for rapid progression.

So, in this context, 97% in employment is a very high percentage which reflects the *lower* bargaining power of MBA graduates looking for work in Spain, of which the Spanish business schools have a lot. In contrast, 10% or 20% not being in employment for a few months longer because they are holding out for the perfect offer can lead to a much greater starting salary and a huge lift over the life of a whole career.

So, while it's possible IESE could rise (and it is a strong school) it and other Spanish schools face the unique challenge of a Spanish market which hugely handicaps alumni in terms of salary and progression: two of the key elements in the rankings. If IESE does rise, that will be a tribute to the experience there, and to the schools selectivity.

However, there are other schools which would find it easier to rise, such as the IIMA, ISB, IMD, and CEIBS. They benefit from a vibrant domestic market and the general flight to quality as the recession bites.

Furthermore, since the Spanish market is weakening, IESE will have to work hard even to remain at ninth place: much harder than the other schools I mentioned.

Perhaps take a closer look at the variables used in the FT ranking?
quote

How would you rate SP Jain's chances of moving up higher in the rankings? It was ranked number 68 in the 2011 edition.

How would you rate SP Jain's chances of moving up higher in the rankings? It was ranked number 68 in the 2011 edition.
quote
Duncan

I would not be surprised if it rose or fell. On the plus side, awareness of the school is growing and if salaries arise accordingly then it should go up. However, consider the low GMAT of entering students (16th lowest in the FT 100) and the low salary on exiting (third lowest in the FT 100), the school is already doing well in the FT ranking.

I would not be surprised if it rose or fell. On the plus side, awareness of the school is growing and if salaries arise accordingly then it should go up. However, consider the low GMAT of entering students (16th lowest in the FT 100) and the low salary on exiting (third lowest in the FT 100), the school is already doing well in the FT ranking.
quote

Thanks much Duncan. I have actually received an admit into SP Jain and my course begins in April.

Also, Sp Jain unfortunately does not make the cut in other ranking lists such as Economist and Businessweek. I would really like to know your opinion on this matter.

Thanks in advance.

Thanks much Duncan. I have actually received an admit into SP Jain and my course begins in April.

Also, Sp Jain unfortunately does not make the cut in other ranking lists such as Economist and Businessweek. I would really like to know your opinion on this matter.

Thanks in advance.
quote
Duncan

What specifically would you like an opinion on? Business week ranks far fewer schools, and the school may be too small to get into the Economist ranking. But it is a good school for work in Asia for people who cannot get into better schools.

What specifically would you like an opinion on? Business week ranks far fewer schools, and the school may be too small to get into the Economist ranking. But it is a good school for work in Asia for people who cannot get into better schools.
quote
ankit1602

Hi hopeful,

I am also going to join SP Jain in Apr, 12
The avg. salaries of SP Jain are very less compared to the likes of ISB, NUS etc., but surely the salaries are north-ward for the last 2-3 batches. So i am expecting a jump of around 10 places for SPJCM in the FTMBA 2012 rankings.

Duncan, I came to know that the avg. GMAT score in SP Jain is 660. But i could not locate this in the FTMBA Rankings, can you please let me know where to find this GMAT scores info.

Regards
Ankit

Hi hopeful,

I am also going to join SP Jain in Apr, 12
The avg. salaries of SP Jain are very less compared to the likes of ISB, NUS etc., but surely the salaries are north-ward for the last 2-3 batches. So i am expecting a jump of around 10 places for SPJCM in the FTMBA 2012 rankings.

Duncan, I came to know that the avg. GMAT score in SP Jain is 660. But i could not locate this in the FTMBA Rankings, can you please let me know where to find this GMAT scores info.

Regards
Ankit
quote

I was just keen on understanding how the different ranking lists work. SP Jain is high up in the Financial Times list but not present in the rest.

But I do have a better idea after the inputs you have provided me. Thank you.

I was just keen on understanding how the different ranking lists work. SP Jain is high up in the Financial Times list but not present in the rest.

But I do have a better idea after the inputs you have provided me. Thank you.
quote
ankit1602

Not sure, how the Economist Rankings work:
ISB is not even in the Top 100 list and NUS is way down at number 86!!

http://www.economist.com/whichmba/full-time-mba-ranking?term_node_tid_depth=All

Not sure, how the Economist Rankings work:
ISB is not even in the Top 100 list and NUS is way down at number 86!!

http://www.economist.com/whichmba/full-time-mba-ranking?term_node_tid_depth=All
quote
Duncan

Hi there.

mbahopeful123 I think The Economist's method is fairly straightforward. It's based on a survey looking at topics like careers, personal development, salary increase and networking potential. Because the salary increase is much easier when you come from a low base to a high salary, European schools and US do very well on that and on opening new opportunities. However the non-US schools do well on their networking potential because they connect more internationally. However, NUS and ISB are strongly national schools so perhaps they don't provide as much of an international network.

Ankit, the FT doesn't track GMAT scores. That's discovered by personal research. Needless to say, they change a lot.

Hi there.

mbahopeful123 I think The Economist's method is fairly straightforward. It's based on a survey looking at topics like careers, personal development, salary increase and networking potential. Because the salary increase is much easier when you come from a low base to a high salary, European schools and US do very well on that and on opening new opportunities. However the non-US schools do well on their networking potential because they connect more internationally. However, NUS and ISB are strongly national schools so perhaps they don't provide as much of an international network.

Ankit, the FT doesn't track GMAT scores. That's discovered by personal research. Needless to say, they change a lot.
quote
ankit1602

Duncan,

Thanks a lot for your response.

Regards
Ankit

Duncan,

Thanks a lot for your response.

Regards
Ankit
quote

Thanks to your inputs Duncan, I have a better understanding of how these rankings work and the different parameters taken into consideration.

I am also pretty pleased that you do rate SP Jain's program.

Thanks to your inputs Duncan, I have a better understanding of how these rankings work and the different parameters taken into consideration.

I am also pretty pleased that you do rate SP Jain's program.
quote
gilesr

Does anyone have any opinion on the Cambridge MBA course and whether it will rise or fall in the rankings. I see that they have been quite cyclical in the past, but have recently fallen from around 10 to the mid-20s. What would the reason be? Post-MBA salary?

Does anyone have any opinion on the Cambridge MBA course and whether it will rise or fall in the rankings. I see that they have been quite cyclical in the past, but have recently fallen from around 10 to the mid-20s. What would the reason be? Post-MBA salary?
quote
repoman

Good questions. My guess is that they will stay in the 20s-30s range. They rank relatively low in the "Placements" and "Employment" categories of the FT ranking, though that doesn't really seem to correlate with the "88% employed three months out" on the Cambridge career statistics website.

But it's always Cambridge, and that brand carries weight everywhere, so I don't think they will plummet.

All just speculation.

Good questions. My guess is that they will stay in the 20s-30s range. They rank relatively low in the "Placements" and "Employment" categories of the FT ranking, though that doesn't really seem to correlate with the "88% employed three months out" on the Cambridge career statistics website.

But it's always Cambridge, and that brand carries weight everywhere, so I don't think they will plummet.

All just speculation.
quote
Greg MBA

I think macroeconomics has a lot of influence on the outcomes that drive the rankings. I'd expect these general movements:
**Up**
Australia
Belgium
Canada
China
Ireland

**Stable**
Argentina
France
India
Singapore
UK

**Down**
Italy
Netherlands
Spain
USA

I'd also bet on
- Falling: Bradford, EM Lyon, Lancaster, RSM, Strathclyde, Warwick, US private universities.
- Rising: Cape Town, Dublin, Durham, Hult, Ipade, Melbourne, Vlerick, US state universities.


Hi Duncan,

Thanks for the info, I look forward to seeing the ranking. I was previously considering programmes in EU/UK/US but for personal and financial reasons chose University of Cape Town. Although I do have my own opinions on why I chose this school above international options was just interested to hear your opinion on why you believe it will rise in the rankings?

Greg

As an aside, the point you raised for Spanish schools being hindered by relatively low Spanish salaries is even more true for South African schools may of which have excellent placement post 3 months (>90%) in top banks, consultancies and industry giants but suffer from low real (although very competitive PPP) salaries.

<blockquote>I think macroeconomics has a lot of influence on the outcomes that drive the rankings. I'd expect these general movements:
**Up**
Australia
Belgium
Canada
China
Ireland

**Stable**
Argentina
France
India
Singapore
UK

**Down**
Italy
Netherlands
Spain
USA

I'd also bet on
- Falling: Bradford, EM Lyon, Lancaster, RSM, Strathclyde, Warwick, US private universities.
- Rising: Cape Town, Dublin, Durham, Hult, Ipade, Melbourne, Vlerick, US state universities.</blockquote>

Hi Duncan,

Thanks for the info, I look forward to seeing the ranking. I was previously considering programmes in EU/UK/US but for personal and financial reasons chose University of Cape Town. Although I do have my own opinions on why I chose this school above international options was just interested to hear your opinion on why you believe it will rise in the rankings?

Greg

As an aside, the point you raised for Spanish schools being hindered by relatively low Spanish salaries is even more true for South African schools may of which have excellent placement post 3 months (>90%) in top banks, consultancies and industry giants but suffer from low real (although very competitive PPP) salaries.
quote
Duncan

Greg, UCT is rising for exactly those reasons: PPP salaries, placement and macroeconomIc factors are better there relative to economies still in recession.

Greg, UCT is rising for exactly those reasons: PPP salaries, placement and macroeconomIc factors are better there relative to economies still in recession.
quote
SagarK

Hi Duncan,

What are your views on HULT IBS Boston campus with respect to Quality of Education , Placement after the course and ROI.

Sagar

Hi Duncan,

What are your views on HULT IBS Boston campus with respect to Quality of Education , Placement after the course and ROI.

Sagar
quote

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