FT Rankings 2012


Duncan

Search the discussion board for a thread called "HULT".

Search the discussion board for a thread called "HULT".
quote
BobJ

I think this is mainly due to the salary increase statistics. For instance, from the FT's data, grads at St. Gallen see about 49% increase in their post-MBA salary, versus 94% at MIP and 106% at HEC.

Although, St. Gallen directly reports that the class of 2010 is seeing more like 60% increase in their salaries - so if the FT uses their statistics, we might see movement in the 2012 rankings.


I think you might be getting your numbers mixed up on this one. St. Gallen are reporting 60% increase 3 months after graduation and numbers are based on actual salaries.

The FT are reporting 3 years after graduation and the salary increase is based on the salaries after the ppp ratio has been applied. The numbers bear no relation.... and I don't see much change coming...

I am far more interested in German region schools in general. Several schools are trying to get in, so I think there could be a few new faces this and maybe next year. Mannheim in particular, but also ESMT, WHU, HLL, Gisma and maybe even Vienna. The region is completely under-represented...

<blockquote>I think this is mainly due to the salary increase statistics. For instance, from the FT's data, grads at St. Gallen see about 49% increase in their post-MBA salary, versus 94% at MIP and 106% at HEC.

Although, St. Gallen directly reports that the class of 2010 is seeing more like 60% increase in their salaries - so if the FT uses their statistics, we might see movement in the 2012 rankings.</blockquote>

I think you might be getting your numbers mixed up on this one. St. Gallen are reporting 60% increase 3 months after graduation and numbers are based on actual salaries.

The FT are reporting 3 years after graduation and the salary increase is based on the salaries after the ppp ratio has been applied. The numbers bear no relation.... and I don't see much change coming...

I am far more interested in German region schools in general. Several schools are trying to get in, so I think there could be a few new faces this and maybe next year. Mannheim in particular, but also ESMT, WHU, HLL, Gisma and maybe even Vienna. The region is completely under-represented...
quote
ezra

I think you might be getting your numbers mixed up on this one. St. Gallen are reporting 60% increase 3 months after graduation and numbers are based on actual salaries.

You're right, my mistake - thanks for pointing this out.

I am far more interested in German region schools in general.

As am I - the scene in Germany is picking up steam - especially with how the economy is doing there in relation to the rest of Europe. It's interesting how no German MBA programs feature in the FT global rankings, but there were a few Germany schools that showed up in the European rankings last year (WHU, ESMT, and HHL;) and the Mannheim program is climbing that chart as well. So if that's any indication, we might see a Germany program in the global rankings this year (my money is on WHU.)

<blockquote>I think you might be getting your numbers mixed up on this one. St. Gallen are reporting 60% increase 3 months after graduation and numbers are based on actual salaries. </blockquote>
You're right, my mistake - thanks for pointing this out.

<blockquote>I am far more interested in German region schools in general. </blockquote>
As am I - the scene in Germany is picking up steam - especially with how the economy is doing there in relation to the rest of Europe. It's interesting how no German MBA programs feature in the FT global rankings, but there were a few Germany schools that showed up in the European rankings last year (WHU, ESMT, and HHL;) and the Mannheim program is climbing that chart as well. So if that's any indication, we might see a Germany program in the global rankings this year (my money is on WHU.)
quote
BobJ

Hi Ezra,
I can't understand why a program like MIP is in FT ranking while St. Gallen is not (maybe it's too young?).
Employment and salary (not PPP but fresh CHF :-)) ) for people graduating here are outstanding.


In hindsight, this must be the best comment. Maybe the FT read the thread as well! St.Gallen in, MIP are out this year!

<blockquote>Hi Ezra,
I can't understand why a program like MIP is in FT ranking while St. Gallen is not (maybe it's too young?).
Employment and salary (not PPP but fresh CHF :-)) ) for people graduating here are outstanding.
</blockquote>

In hindsight, this must be the best comment. Maybe the FT read the thread as well! St.Gallen in, MIP are out this year!
quote
BobJ

Wow, Duncan, you missed the mark on a lot of these. European schools actually took a hit in this years ranking, not the US. Vlerick and Durham in particular are going to be upset this morning!

I think macroeconomics has a lot of influence on the outcomes that drive the rankings. I'd expect these general movements:
**Up**
Australia
Belgium
Canada
China
Ireland

**Stable**
Argentina
France
India
Singapore
UK

**Down**
Italy
Netherlands
Spain
USA

I'd also bet on
- Falling: Bradford, EM Lyon, Lancaster, RSM, Strathclyde, Warwick, US private universities.
- Rising: Cape Town, Dublin, Durham, Hult, Ipade, Melbourne, Vlerick, US state universities.

Wow, Duncan, you missed the mark on a lot of these. European schools actually took a hit in this years ranking, not the US. Vlerick and Durham in particular are going to be upset this morning!

<blockquote>I think macroeconomics has a lot of influence on the outcomes that drive the rankings. I'd expect these general movements:
**Up**
Australia
Belgium
Canada
China
Ireland

**Stable**
Argentina
France
India
Singapore
UK

**Down**
Italy
Netherlands
Spain
USA

I'd also bet on
- Falling: Bradford, EM Lyon, Lancaster, RSM, Strathclyde, Warwick, US private universities.
- Rising: Cape Town, Dublin, Durham, Hult, Ipade, Melbourne, Vlerick, US state universities.</blockquote>
quote
Duncan

Well, the rankings are hard to predict, and this was an earthquake of a year - with half the schools ranked 70 or lower leaving the rankings.

But in terms of schools, or the average rankings for countries, the idea of tracking macroeconomic trends worked for:
- Australia, China, France, Singapore, Italy. I also called Bradford, EM Lyon, Lancaster, Strathclyde, US public and private universities, Cape Town and Melbourne.

and didn't work for
- Many countries where the currency fell against the dollar (Argentina, Canada, Belgium, Ireland, Mexico, UK)

That tells us a lot about the purchasing power parity formula used by the FT, and how central it is.

The five remaining schools that bucked those trends (RSM, Warwick, Dublin, Durham, and Hult) are actually a small number and I think it's those schools whose movements are most interesting.

Well, the rankings are hard to predict, and this was an earthquake of a year - with half the schools ranked 70 or lower leaving the rankings.

But in terms of schools, or the average rankings for countries, the idea of tracking macroeconomic trends worked for:
- Australia, China, France, Singapore, Italy. I also called Bradford, EM Lyon, Lancaster, Strathclyde, US public and private universities, Cape Town and Melbourne.

and didn't work for
- Many countries where the currency fell against the dollar (Argentina, Canada, Belgium, Ireland, Mexico, UK)

That tells us a lot about the purchasing power parity formula used by the FT, and how central it is.

The five remaining schools that bucked those trends (RSM, Warwick, Dublin, Durham, and Hult) are actually a small number and I think it's those schools whose movements are most interesting.
quote
maraki


The five remaining schools that bucked those trends (RSM, Warwick, Dublin, Durham, and Hult) are actually a small number and I think it's those schools whose movements are most interesting.


What do you mean by this, Duncan?

<blockquote>
The five remaining schools that bucked those trends (RSM, Warwick, Dublin, Durham, and Hult) are actually a small number and I think it's those schools whose movements are most interesting.
</blockquote>

What do you mean by this, Duncan?
quote
Duncan

Well, my hypothesis is that those schools that buck the trend have outcomes which are primarily determined by something happening in those schools, while other schools are determined more by the macroeconomic factors in the markets they serve and in particular by their exchange rate with the USD. For example, RSM rose when Vlerick (90 miles away) fell. I think RSM must have done something to go in the opposite direction. Warwick had a great rise (and Durham a great fall) when other UK schools were stable or slightly falling. Hult and UCD fell when they were well positioned to benefit from growth.

Well, my hypothesis is that those schools that buck the trend have outcomes which are primarily determined by something happening in those schools, while other schools are determined more by the macroeconomic factors in the markets they serve and in particular by their exchange rate with the USD. For example, RSM rose when Vlerick (90 miles away) fell. I think RSM must have done something to go in the opposite direction. Warwick had a great rise (and Durham a great fall) when other UK schools were stable or slightly falling. Hult and UCD fell when they were well positioned to benefit from growth.
quote
maraki

Well, my hypothesis is that those schools that buck the trend have outcomes which are primarily determined by something happening in those schools


Sorry, but I still cannot understand what you are implying...
Can you get more specific?
And what about the Warwick case? Can you analyse and explain it?

<blockquote>Well, my hypothesis is that those schools that buck the trend have outcomes which are primarily determined by something happening in those schools </blockquote>

Sorry, but I still cannot understand what you are implying...
Can you get more specific?
And what about the Warwick case? Can you analyse and explain it?
quote
Duncan

I'm not implying anything. I'm saying that the generally determining factor is macroeconomic and, where it is not, that must be because the schools are going something especially good or bad. In the case of Warwick, just compare the stats for this and last year. I am sure it will be obvious that is driving the change, but I will go to bed and let you do that.

I'm not implying anything. I'm saying that the generally determining factor is macroeconomic and, where it is not, that must be because the schools are going something especially good or bad. In the case of Warwick, just compare the stats for this and last year. I am sure it will be obvious that is driving the change, but I will go to bed and let you do that.
quote
ralph

I'm saying that the generally determining factor is macroeconomic and, where it is not, that must be because the schools are going something especially good or bad.

Agree with this. And along those lines I'm actually surprised we don't see more Indian schools this year - although the initial ranking of IIM-A at #11 is actually pretty impressive.

<blockquote>I'm saying that the generally determining factor is macroeconomic and, where it is not, that must be because the schools are going something especially good or bad.</blockquote>
Agree with this. And along those lines I'm actually surprised we don't see more Indian schools this year - although the initial ranking of IIM-A at #11 is actually pretty impressive.
quote
ankit1602

Indian MBA is more inclined towards freshers, the average work-ex in IIM's is around 2 yrs. Thus IIM's are not able to get into FTMBA rankings despite being great research houses and getting students some great placements. ISB is the only Indian B-school to stand apart from the cluster.
IIM-A which ranks at No. 11 in the recent rankings is not for the General MBA program but for the PGP-MAX program, which is a 1 yr program and takes candidates with a min. of 7 yrs wrk-ex only. It takes only 20-30 candidates each year. Other IIM's also have such programs for the experienced candidates but IIM-A program is the best among them. With time, we might see a couple of more IIM's break into the FTMBA rankings but again it will be for this specific course (which is not the flagship MBA course).

Hence, ISB remains the only recognized B-school for experienced in India. Indian B-schools mainly cater to the young and less experienced candidates.

Indian MBA is more inclined towards freshers, the average work-ex in IIM's is around 2 yrs. Thus IIM's are not able to get into FTMBA rankings despite being great research houses and getting students some great placements. ISB is the only Indian B-school to stand apart from the cluster.
IIM-A which ranks at No. 11 in the recent rankings is not for the General MBA program but for the PGP-MAX program, which is a 1 yr program and takes candidates with a min. of 7 yrs wrk-ex only. It takes only 20-30 candidates each year. Other IIM's also have such programs for the experienced candidates but IIM-A program is the best among them. With time, we might see a couple of more IIM's break into the FTMBA rankings but again it will be for this specific course (which is not the flagship MBA course).

Hence, ISB remains the only recognized B-school for experienced in India. Indian B-schools mainly cater to the young and less experienced candidates.
quote
satchaku

This Year FT Rankings had been quite unpredictable. European schools doing exceedingly good.

Surprisingly, University of Strathclyde is not even listed in Top 100.

Any comments ??

Cheers

This Year FT Rankings had been quite unpredictable. European schools doing exceedingly good.

Surprisingly, University of Strathclyde is not even listed in Top 100.

Any comments ??

Cheers
quote
BobJ

This Year FT Rankings had been quite unpredictable. European schools doing exceedingly good.

Surprisingly, University of Strathclyde is not even listed in Top 100.

Any comments ??

Cheers


Interesting, I hadn't seen that. I have just checked on the FT and they were in the last three years getting progressively lower: 41, 51, 74

I guess they were one of the schools to suffer as a result of all the new schools coming in.

I also spotted that Esade dropped 10 places but IESE and IE kept steady. Did something go wrong at Esade, or was this just another FT anomaly....?

<blockquote>This Year FT Rankings had been quite unpredictable. European schools doing exceedingly good.

Surprisingly, University of Strathclyde is not even listed in Top 100.

Any comments ??

Cheers</blockquote>

Interesting, I hadn't seen that. I have just checked on the FT and they were in the last three years getting progressively lower: 41, 51, 74

I guess they were one of the schools to suffer as a result of all the new schools coming in.

I also spotted that Esade dropped 10 places but IESE and IE kept steady. Did something go wrong at Esade, or was this just another FT anomaly....?
quote
Duncan

I think Strathclyde was a victim of its own success in become the school of choice for Indians, whose ability to win salaries in the UK has collapsed.

IE, as a for-profit school, has the flexibility to game the rankings which ESADE does not. But perhaps IESE is less Spanish...

I think Strathclyde was a victim of its own success in become the school of choice for Indians, whose ability to win salaries in the UK has collapsed.

IE, as a for-profit school, has the flexibility to game the rankings which ESADE does not. But perhaps IESE is less Spanish...
quote
ezra

I think Strathclyde was a victim of its own success in become the school of choice for Indians, whose ability to win salaries in the UK has collapsed.

There could be a connection here. In salary increase terms Stratchclyde has gone quickly downhill. In FT's 2008 rankings, students reported on average about 143% salary increase three years after graduation - this dropped to 87% last year. This does coincide with an increase in the percentage of international students at the school, but whether those two factors are directly related is hard to tell.

<blockquote>I think Strathclyde was a victim of its own success in become the school of choice for Indians, whose ability to win salaries in the UK has collapsed.</blockquote>
There could be a connection here. In salary increase terms Stratchclyde has gone quickly downhill. In FT's 2008 rankings, students reported on average about 143% salary increase three years after graduation - this dropped to 87% last year. This does coincide with an increase in the percentage of international students at the school, but whether those two factors are directly related is hard to tell.
quote
kodeA

Ranking of SP Jain GMBA has fallen drastically - from 68 to 91 on FT ranking.

In my opinion it has more to do with re-evaluation of the numbers for international faculty and students.
May be FT considered Indian Faculty as International previously (as course is based in Dubai and Singapore, and degree is from Australia) and were not counted as International any more.

Dip in Salaries is understandable as Dubai has gone through a very lean economical period.

But I am sure they shall do well. as the 2 yr regular course of Mumbai (India) is highly rated, GMBA if not today then tomorrow shall definitely reach those heights

HULT even though has fallen from 61 to 65.. but in a list like this... I see it as consistent performance :)

Cheers,

Ranking of SP Jain GMBA has fallen drastically - from 68 to 91 on FT ranking.

In my opinion it has more to do with re-evaluation of the numbers for international faculty and students.
May be FT considered Indian Faculty as International previously (as course is based in Dubai and Singapore, and degree is from Australia) and were not counted as International any more.

Dip in Salaries is understandable as Dubai has gone through a very lean economical period.

But I am sure they shall do well. as the 2 yr regular course of Mumbai (India) is highly rated, GMBA if not today then tomorrow shall definitely reach those heights

HULT even though has fallen from 61 to 65.. but in a list like this... I see it as consistent performance :)

Cheers,
quote
Duncan

Wow - 97% Indian students. The FT is totally right to consider this an Indian school; that shows the reality of the international diversity in the classroom.

Wow - 97% Indian students. The FT is totally right to consider this an Indian school; that shows the reality of the international diversity in the classroom.
quote
kodeA

Wow - 97% Indian students. The FT is totally right to consider this an Indian school; that shows the reality of the international diversity in the classroom.


:) Yes SP Jain was lucky to be at 68 then.
But it doesn't hide the fact that SP Jain is the first Indian University which dared to come out of the country and has made campuses (now even in Sydney). I really hope they shall just do better from here.

No matter how good ISB and IIMs are,they dont have a international campus.

I always expected IIM and even Engineering College - IIT (Indian Institute of Technology) to make campuses in other countries, to spread their reach, so far no progress on this.

<blockquote>Wow - 97% Indian students. The FT is totally right to consider this an Indian school; that shows the reality of the international diversity in the classroom. </blockquote>

:) Yes SP Jain was lucky to be at 68 then.
But it doesn't hide the fact that SP Jain is the first Indian University which dared to come out of the country and has made campuses (now even in Sydney). I really hope they shall just do better from here.

No matter how good ISB and IIMs are,they dont have a international campus.

I always expected IIM and even Engineering College - IIT (Indian Institute of Technology) to make campuses in other countries, to spread their reach, so far no progress on this.
quote
maubia

Wow - 97% Indian students. The FT is totally right to consider this an Indian school; that shows the reality of the international diversity in the classroom.


Who is the 3%??? :-)
By the way, which is the reason for the lack of international exposure of the indian schools? I can't believe that there are not international students willing to study there...

<blockquote>Wow - 97% Indian students. The FT is totally right to consider this an Indian school; that shows the reality of the international diversity in the classroom. </blockquote>

Who is the 3%??? :-)
By the way, which is the reason for the lack of international exposure of the indian schools? I can't believe that there are not international students willing to study there...
quote

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