Germany vs UK - MBA or masters course - Best value for money


Hi everyone,


A brief about me:
Age: 35, Male


Qualification :Bachelors in Electronics Engineering(2006), Mumbai University(India)

Current role: B2B sales for a BPO/ Data Analytics company.

GMAT : 680

Target: To immigrate to either Germay/ UK post study.


Job prospects in B2b sales /International Business / Consulting /Management would be my top priority. Ready to learn German .


WHU, Mannheim, FS, ESMT, HHL, Esslingen, ESB, EBS - are the ones I hear about regularly. 

For UK: Manchester, Cass, Durham, Edinburgh, Imperial & Warwick.
Do Germans hire Indians in management positions ?


Lesser the duration of the course , the better.
Which other colleges are promising and provide Career oriented Curriculum? Maybe integrated Internships?


I would like to immigrate with my wife who wants to learn digital marketing . Either she studies and I Work or I study and she works.


What would be your recommendations for schools for me in UK and Germany which will deliver the most bang for the buck? I do not want to be loaded with student loans.

Your thoughts?

[Edited by Aniriddha W. on Aug 02, 2020]

Hi everyone,<br><br>
A brief about me: <br>Age: 35, Male<br><br>
Qualification :Bachelors in Electronics Engineering(2006), Mumbai University(India)<br>
Current role: B2B sales for a BPO/ Data Analytics company.<br>
GMAT : 680<br>
Target: To immigrate to either Germay/ UK post study.<br><br>
Job prospects in B2b sales /International Business / Consulting /Management would be my top priority. Ready to learn German .<br><br>
WHU, Mannheim, FS, ESMT, HHL, Esslingen, ESB, EBS - are the ones I hear about regularly.&nbsp;<br><br>For UK: Manchester, Cass, Durham, Edinburgh, Imperial &amp; Warwick.<br>Do Germans hire Indians in management positions ?<br><br>
Lesser the duration of the course , the better.<br>Which other colleges are promising and provide Career oriented Curriculum? Maybe integrated Internships?<br><br>
I would like to immigrate with my wife who wants to learn digital marketing . Either she studies and I Work or I study and she works.<br><br>
What would be your recommendations for schools for me in UK and Germany which will deliver the most bang for the buck? I do not want to be loaded with student loans.<br><br>Your thoughts?
quote
Duncan

Since you don't speak German, and perhaps your wife might not either, the most bang for your buck will come from a year in a German state university's intensive language course. That would then allow you to study a qualification taught in German. An MSc or IHK qualification could be better than an MBA. Contact your local DAAD office. 

Since you don't speak German, and perhaps your wife might not either, the most bang for your buck will come from a year in a German state university's intensive language course. That would then allow you to study a qualification taught in German. An MSc or IHK qualification could be better than an MBA. Contact your local DAAD office.&nbsp;
quote

Okay. So that would mean another year learning the language.Could you elaborate on the IHK qualification? 

My degree is recognised by the anabin in Germany? H+ i.e.

What about applying to the UK MBA degree of Cranfield, Imperial, Cass, Warwick, Strathclyde and Edinburgh ? 
How do you think the current Brexit situation would affect the job scenario ?

[Edited by Aniriddha W. on Aug 02, 2020]

Okay. So that would mean another year learning the language.Could you elaborate on the IHK qualification?&nbsp;<br><br>My degree is recognised by the anabin in Germany? H+ i.e.<br><br>What about applying to the UK MBA degree of Cranfield, Imperial, Cass, Warwick, Strathclyde and Edinburgh ?&nbsp;<br>How do you think the current Brexit situation would affect the job scenario ?
quote
Duncan

Exactly. Without fluent written and spoken German your options are limited with any degree. 

Chambers of commerce offer professional qualifications. They would show that you had developed German competency in a professional setting. 

Exactly. Without fluent written and spoken German your options are limited with any degree.&nbsp;<br><br>Chambers of commerce offer professional qualifications. They would show that you had developed German competency in a professional setting.&nbsp;
quote

Hi Duncan, 
Thanks for the info . I will keep that in Mind . i have already sent an email to the Daad Office. They have a provision to get my Bachelors degree recognised. 
here is the link : https://www.kmk.org/zab/zentralstelle-fuer-auslaendisches-bildungswesen/zeugnisbewertung.html


 What is your opinion on the UK business schools and Job scenario in Data Analytics Marketing/management roles?

What about applying to the UK MBA degree of Cranfield, Imperial, Cass, Warwick, Strathclyde and Edinburgh ?  FT rankings suggest that more than 85-90 % of the Students get placed.

Hi Duncan,&nbsp;<br>Thanks for the info . I will keep that in Mind . i have already sent an email to the Daad Office. They have a provision to get my Bachelors degree recognised.&nbsp;<br>here is the link :&nbsp;<a href="https://www.kmk.org/zab/zentralstelle-fuer-auslaendisches-bildungswesen/zeugnisbewertung.html">https://www.kmk.org/zab/zentralstelle-fuer-auslaendisches-bildungswesen/zeugnisbewertung.html</a><br><br><br>&nbsp;What is your opinion on the UK business schools and Job scenario in Data Analytics Marketing/management roles?<br><br>What about applying to the UK MBA degree of Cranfield, Imperial, Cass, Warwick, Strathclyde and Edinburgh ?&nbsp; FT rankings suggest that more than 85-90 % of the Students get placed.<br>
quote
Duncan

These are very open questions which I can't really address in the time available. Try searching the board and coming back with more specific questions.

These are very open questions which I can't really address in the time available. Try searching the board and coming back with more specific questions.
quote
laurie

The UK schools you have highlighted are (relatively) strong. Also in the FT ranking, check out the metric for "International Mobility," and aim for those that rank more highly in terms of this.

(The stronger a school is in terms of international mobility, generally speaking it's more likely to assist students with transitions to new countries.)

In terms of what you've asked about placements, you're focusing on functions, which is fine, but I suggest also thinking about (1) what kind of industry you would be interested in working in, and specifically (2) what companies. This will give you a better sense of where you want to be (both in terms of proximity as well as in terms of which schools have better recruiting relationships with the companies.)

The UK schools you have highlighted are (relatively) strong. Also in the FT ranking, check out the metric for "International Mobility," and aim for those that rank more highly in terms of this.<br><br>(The stronger a school is in terms of international mobility, generally speaking it's more likely to assist students with transitions to new countries.)<br><br>In terms of what you've asked about placements, you're focusing on functions, which is fine, but I suggest also thinking about (1) what kind of industry you would be interested in working in, and specifically (2) what companies. This will give you a better sense of where you want to be (both in terms of proximity as well as in terms of which schools have better recruiting relationships with the companies.)
quote

The admissions team at HHL, Warwick, Cass have asked me to apply in sept /oct for the 2021 intake. 
 Imperial and WHU have mentioned that the average age of students is 28 , hinting that I am too old for their MBA. :)
EBS has asked me to apply for the Jan 21 batch and mentioned that 90% of the students are placed within 3 months of graduation. 

University of Applied Management Studies(Mannheim) -  HDWM for the Masters in management course has asked to apply too. ( i dont know much about them and I cant even find any reviews about them too.
I would be interested in working with tech companies ( AI related companies , VR related companies) in the growing stage with sufficient funding  OR Huge multinationals like Amazon, Siemens, Bosch, Daimler, Google , Microsoft ,Tesla with departments related to advanced technologies like the ones mentioned above. 
Function wise: Marketing/management/ international business .
 Any other schools that I need to target in UK or Germany?

Aniriddha W.

The admissions team at HHL, Warwick, Cass have asked me to apply in sept /oct for the 2021 intake.&nbsp;<br>&nbsp;Imperial and WHU have mentioned that the average age of students is 28 , hinting that I am too old for their MBA. :)<br>EBS has asked me to apply for the Jan 21 batch and mentioned that 90% of the students are placed within 3 months of graduation.&nbsp;<br><br><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13.3333px;">University of Applied Management Studies(Mannheim) -&nbsp; HDWM for the Masters in management course has asked to apply too. ( i dont know much about them and I cant even find any reviews about them too.</span><br>I would be interested in working with tech companies ( AI related companies , VR related companies) in the growing stage with sufficient funding&nbsp; OR Huge multinationals like Amazon, Siemens, Bosch, Daimler, Google , Microsoft ,Tesla with departments related to advanced technologies like the ones mentioned above.&nbsp;<br>Function wise: Marketing/management/ international business .<br>&nbsp;Any other schools that I need to target in UK or Germany?<br><br>Aniriddha W.
quote
Duncan

EBS is a strong school. I would take it seriously if you are able to devote a huge effort to learning German before you arrive.

I think you need to focus more on the sort of role you want. I don't see why you are focussing on an MBA, since on mainland Europe language skills you don't have will be highly desirable for general management roles, rather than MSc in a functional area where those firms are facing talent shortages and won't need local language skills o be as strong. 

On HDWM, I think everyone should avoid private business schools without meaningful international accreditation. 

EBS is a strong school. I would take it seriously if you are able to devote a huge effort to learning German before you arrive.<br><br>I think you need to focus more on the sort of role you want. I don't see why you are focussing on an MBA, since on mainland Europe language skills you don't have will be highly desirable for general management roles, rather than MSc in a functional area where those firms are facing talent shortages and won't need local language skills o be as strong.&nbsp;<br><br>On HDWM, I think everyone should avoid private business schools without meaningful international accreditation.&nbsp;
quote

EBS is a strong school. I would take it seriously if you are able to devote a huge effort to learning German before you arrive.

I think you need to focus more on the sort of role you want. I don't see why you are focussing on an MBA, since on mainland Europe language skills you don't have will be highly desirable for general management roles, rather than MSc in a functional area where those firms are facing talent shortages and won't need local language skills o be as strong. 

On HDWM, I think everyone should avoid private business schools without meaningful international accreditation. 


I would certainly apply to EBS . Also you have mentioned that you are an alumni of Edinburgh . They have asked to apply too. 
 I agree with you to get an MSc in a functional area with shortages. I am already learning Data analytics here in India. However my interests like in the soft skills( negotiating/ closing deals/ Managing teams / Creating new verticals,etc)  and dealing with numbers 
mostly . 
 I have been told that Msc has very young students ,hence the hesitation on my part . But I am certainly open to it .( None of the admission counselors from the schools have asked me to apply for the MSc before. )
 Should I look for MSc in marketing/International business/ IT management?

[quote]EBS is a strong school. I would take it seriously if you are able to devote a huge effort to learning German before you arrive.<br><br>I think you need to focus more on the sort of role you want. I don't see why you are focussing on an MBA, since on mainland Europe language skills you don't have will be highly desirable for general management roles, rather than MSc in a functional area where those firms are facing talent shortages and won't need local language skills o be as strong.&nbsp;<br><br>On HDWM, I think everyone should avoid private business schools without meaningful international accreditation.&nbsp; [/quote]<br><br>I would certainly apply to EBS . Also you have mentioned that you are an alumni of Edinburgh . They have asked to apply too.&nbsp;<br>&nbsp;I agree with you to get an MSc in a functional area with shortages. I am already learning Data analytics here in India. However my interests like in the soft skills( negotiating/ closing deals/ Managing teams / Creating new verticals,etc)&nbsp; and dealing with numbers&nbsp;<br>mostly .&nbsp;<br>&nbsp;I have been told that Msc has very young students ,hence the hesitation on my part . But I am certainly open to it .( None of the admission counselors from the schools have asked me to apply for the MSc before. )<br>&nbsp;Should I look for MSc in marketing/International business/ IT management?
quote
Duncan

No, I think shortage areas are better than more general fields like marketing/International business/ IT management?

Your soft skills will be much less effective when working in German, because of acculturation as well as language.

By EBS, I assume you mean Reutlingen? 

MSc in general fields have young students, such as the MiM. For example, I took a more specialised MSc (in systems analysis) in my 30s, and I didn't feel much older than the other students. Most had work experience.  

No, I think shortage areas are better than more general fields like marketing/International business/ IT management?<br><br>Your soft skills will be much less effective when working in German, because of acculturation as well as language.<br><br>By EBS, I assume you mean Reutlingen?&nbsp;<br><br>MSc in general fields have young students, such as the MiM. For example, I took a more specialised MSc (in systems analysis) in my 30s, and I didn't feel much older than the other students. Most had work experience.&nbsp;&nbsp;
quote

I meant this one www.ebs.edu

I think the one you are referring to is ESB Reutlingen ( Their office isnt replying BTW).

I shall read a bit about specialised Masters either related to Data Management or Neural networks / Autonomous vehicles etc. Is that the right way to go?

Let me revert with some info about the same. Which sites do you refer to for finding out which colleges have setup new departments in advanced technologies? 

I meant this one&nbsp;<b style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: small;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(0, 78, 137);"><span lang="EN-US" style="color: rgb(0, 78, 137);"><a href="http://www.ebs.edu/" target="_blank" data-saferedirecturl="https://www.google.com/url?q=http://www.ebs.edu/&amp;source=gmail&amp;ust=1596968611253000&amp;usg=AFQjCNGYkw3CgcmLtEhLd9d6qyCjzyG6Ug" style="color: rgb(17, 85, 204);">www.ebs.edu</a></span></span></b><br><br>I think the one you are referring to is ESB Reutlingen ( Their office isnt replying BTW).<br><br>I shall read a bit about specialised Masters either related to Data Management or Neural networks / Autonomous vehicles etc. Is that the right way to go?<br><br>Let me revert with some info about the same. Which sites do you refer to for finding out which colleges have setup new departments in advanced technologies?&nbsp;<br><br>
quote
Duncan

Oh, search the board for ESB. Placement is low there.

I think it would be labourious to see when departments were created, using archive.org to compare sitemaps, but why would you want to do that? Universities don't need new departments to teach new knowledge. 

Oh, search the board for ESB. Placement is low there.<br><br>I think it would be labourious to see when departments were created, using archive.org to compare sitemaps, but why would you want to do that? Universities don't need new departments to teach new knowledge.&nbsp;
quote
aslamo

Oh, search the board for ESB. Placement is low there.

I think it would be labourious to see when departments were created, using archive.org to compare sitemaps, but why would you want to do that? Universities don't need new departments to teach new knowledge. 


Exactly this. If you're looking at machine learning and AI with all the surrounding use cases like autonomous vehicles, then you need to look at existing university Computer Science departments. This is still an emerging field and the best research based universities are mostly in the US e.g. Stanford, MIT, Harvard, Cornell and Carnegie Mellon. 

Arguably the next best countries are China and the UK with Germany being in a group below that. Some of the best UK universities here are predictably, Cambridge, Oxford and Imperial but also a group including Bristol, Edinburgh, Manchester, Sheffield, Sussex, UCL and perhaps Southampton. 

I'm not so familiar with German universities but if you Google it, I'm sure you'll be able to find out which are the best universities there in this field.

[Edited by aslamo on Aug 10, 2020]

[quote]Oh, search the board for ESB. Placement is low there.<br><br>I think it would be labourious to see when departments were created, using archive.org to compare sitemaps, but why would you want to do that? Universities don't need new departments to teach new knowledge.&nbsp; [/quote]<br><br>Exactly this. If you're looking at machine learning and AI with all the surrounding use cases like autonomous vehicles, then you need to look at existing university Computer Science departments. This is still an emerging field and the best research based universities are mostly in the US e.g. Stanford, MIT, Harvard, Cornell and Carnegie Mellon.&nbsp;<br><br>Arguably the next best countries are China and the UK with Germany being in a group below that. Some of the best UK universities here are predictably, Cambridge, Oxford and Imperial but also a group including Bristol, Edinburgh, Manchester, Sheffield, Sussex, UCL and perhaps Southampton.&nbsp;<br><br>I'm not so familiar with German universities but if you Google it, I'm sure you'll be able to find out which are the best universities there in this field.
quote
Duncan

This is exactly what the DAAD.de team exist for.

This is exactly what the DAAD.de team exist for.
quote

Hi Aslamo & Duncan,
 Thanks for suggesting the UK universities.I shall get in touch with Sheffield, Sussex and UCL and Bristol too.
   With Germany , the DAAD site is sufficient as mentioned by Duncan.
For Germany: Mannheim, ESMT, HHL and Frankfurt School for MBA . WHU has hinted that I am too old for their class. 

UK: Cass, Warwick and Strathclyde have asked to apply for the fulltime- MBA. Imperial said that the oldest candidate is 31 years old.


I shall look into TUM, TU berlin, RWTH , LMU and Stuttgart for the technical /MSc specialised  courses .
Stay safe.

Hi Aslamo &amp; Duncan,<br>&nbsp;Thanks for suggesting the UK universities.I shall get in touch with Sheffield, Sussex and UCL and Bristol too.<br>&nbsp; &nbsp;With Germany , the DAAD site is sufficient as mentioned by Duncan.<br>For Germany: Mannheim, ESMT, HHL and Frankfurt School for MBA . WHU has hinted that I am too old for their class.&nbsp;<br><br>UK: Cass, Warwick and Strathclyde have asked to apply for the fulltime- MBA. Imperial said that the oldest candidate is 31 years old.<br><br><br>I shall look into TUM, TU berlin, RWTH , LMU and Stuttgart for the technical /MSc specialised&nbsp; courses .<br>Stay safe.<br><br>
quote

Hi @duncan @aslamo @laurie
I got the following email from St Gallen college: 

"

Dear Mr. Wakchaure,
Good morning and thank you for your email and enclosed CV.Based on the information you provided, there seems to be an initial fit between your profile and the St. Gallen MBA programme. Should you decide to apply ot our programme, please make sure you take the time to explain: Why doy ou want to do an MBA?What is your post-mba career objectivesHow will you contribute/benefit to the St. Gallen MBA class environment I would encourage you to download the brochure, which you can do by clicking here: ..... I suggest you go through some of our available material if not done yet and would be happy to answer any questions you may have and guide you on your MBA plan. Kind regards,

 Antonio Magalhaes
MBA Talent Acquisition Manager

Should I get in touch with an admission consultant to better draft the  answer to these questions??


My email was as follows for which they replied as above:
me:


I am looking for a masters degree which will enable me to work in Switzerland in a techno- managerial Sales Director position with Artificial Intelligence/ Virtual reality /Tech consulting companies - at a well funded startup or as a Senior Consultant.



Hi @duncan @aslamo @laurie<br>I got the following email from St Gallen college:&nbsp;<br><br>"
<div>
</div><div>Dear Mr. Wakchaure,
</div><div>Good morning and thank you for your email and enclosed CV.Based on the information you provided, there seems to be an initial fit between your profile and the St. Gallen MBA programme.&nbsp;Should you decide to apply ot our programme, please make sure you take the time to explain:&nbsp;Why doy ou want to do an MBA?What is your post-mba career objectivesHow will you contribute/benefit to the St. Gallen MBA class environment&nbsp;I would encourage you to download the brochure, which you can do by clicking here: ..... I suggest you go through some of our available material if not done yet and would be happy to answer any questions you may have and guide you on your MBA plan.&nbsp;Kind regards,</div><br><br><div>&nbsp;Antonio Magalhaes
</div><div>MBA Talent Acquisition Manager
</div><br>Should I get in touch with an admission consultant to better draft the&nbsp; answer to these questions??<br><br><br>My email was as follows for which they replied as above:<br>me:<br><div></div><div></div><div>

I am looking for a masters degree which will enable me to work in Switzerland in a techno- managerial Sales Director position with Artificial Intelligence/ Virtual reality /Tech consulting companies - at a well funded startup or as a Senior Consultant.
</div><div></div><div>

</div><div><br></div>
quote
Duncan

Yes, I think your reply should be at least as long and as well considered as his note to you. 

Also, look at the positions that HSG places its full-time students, especially those with your nationality, experience in the Swiss market or German-language skills. I don't think many well-funded start-ups hire salespeople from the HSG MBA, and many consultants need excellent local language skills. Focus on schools that meet your goals for people like you. HSG is a great school, but don't assume it can place you into any role. 

Yes, I think your reply should be at least as long and as well considered as his note to you.&nbsp;<br><br>Also, look at the positions that HSG places its full-time students, especially those with your nationality, experience in the Swiss market or German-language skills. I don't think many well-funded start-ups hire salespeople from the HSG MBA, and many consultants need excellent local language skills. Focus on schools that meet your goals for people like you. HSG is a great school, but don't assume it can place you into any role.&nbsp;
quote
Duncan

Also, it would be classy to write to him with his diacritical marks, as António or Mr
Magalhães.  
  
If you need help, see my profile page to book a call. I am on Israel time this month.

Also, it would be classy to write to him with his diacritical marks, as António or Mr
Magalhães.&nbsp;&nbsp;<div><div></div><div>
&nbsp;&nbsp;<div>
If you need help, see my profile page to book a call. I am on Israel time this month.</div><div><br></div></div></div>
quote

Also, it would be classy to write to him with his diacritical marks, as António or Mr
Magalhães.  
  
If you need help, see my profile page to book a call. I am on Israel time this month.

Thats a neat trick Duncan. 

Also I visited your page How did you manage to educate yourself in so many schools ?? I will certainly book a call once I have the right questions for you.

Your insights are invaluable since you have been all around the world.


[quote]Also, it would be classy to write to him with his diacritical marks, as António or Mr
Magalhães.&nbsp;&nbsp;<div><div></div><div>
&nbsp;&nbsp;<div>
If you need help, see my profile page to book a call. I am on Israel time this month.</div><div><br></div></div></div> [/quote]<br>Thats a neat trick Duncan.&nbsp;<br><br>Also I visited your page How did you manage to educate yourself in so many schools ?? I will certainly book a call once I have the right questions for you.<br><br>Your insights are invaluable since you have been all around the world.<br><br><br>
quote

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