MBA/MSc in Germany/France/Netherlands


BEAST

Okay. What about Pforzheim? On-par with ESB? Overall

Okay. What about Pforzheim? On-par with ESB? Overall
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Duncan

Notably worse. 

Notably worse. 
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BEAST

Got it!! As financials is most important metric for me, according to you & discussions on this space, I might go with ESB or CASS....

Got it!! As financials is most important metric for me, according to you & discussions on this space, I might go with ESB or CASS....
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Duncan

The Bayes MBA will be much more valuable than ESB. 

The Bayes MBA will be much more valuable than ESB. 
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BEAST

At Bayes, its MSc Management!. Their MBA is out of my financial reach. Now what do you think?

At Bayes, its MSc Management!. Their MBA is out of my financial reach. Now what do you think?
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Duncan

How about a specialised MSc or MiF? 

How about a specialised MSc or MiF? 
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BEAST

I already have a masters in Biotechnology. You are right, a specialised masters is an option. I applied for a Consulting masters at Leeds. What do you reckon?

I already have a masters in Biotechnology. You are right, a specialised masters is an option. I applied for a Consulting masters at Leeds. What do you reckon?
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Duncan

Bayes is a much, much, stronger school. MiF skills are always useful in any company. 

Bayes is a much, much, stronger school. MiF skills are always useful in any company. 
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BEAST

I'm preparing for Consulting roles. so MiF is not in the picture. What else I can look into in UK or Germany?

I'm preparing for Consulting roles. so MiF is not in the picture. What else I can look into in UK or Germany?
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Duncan

Money and other quantitative data is a big part of consulting. A flagship MiM will be better than other specialised masters and similar or worse schools. 

Money and other quantitative data is a big part of consulting. A flagship MiM will be better than other specialised masters and similar or worse schools. 
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BEAST

I'm 28, with a masters & 3.5 years work ex. Do you think an MiM woth 23 year olds at Bayes will be better than ESB MBA? For my career goals atleast.

I'm 28, with a masters & 3.5 years work ex. Do you think an MiM woth 23 year olds at Bayes will be better than ESB MBA? For my career goals atleast.
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Duncan

Students in a top MiM are really impressive. I met some HHL MiMs when taking an MBA workshop there. Way smarter and more business savvy than the average 30 year old. It's harder work from Bayes, but there will be better roles. ESB is the simpler route, especially if you are focussed on the South-West of Germany. Obviously, I still recommend HHL.

Students in a top MiM are really impressive. I met some HHL MiMs when taking an MBA workshop there. Way smarter and more business savvy than the average 30 year old. It's harder work from Bayes, but there will be better roles. ESB is the simpler route, especially if you are focussed on the South-West of Germany. Obviously, I still recommend HHL.
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BEAST

Understood your point. I'm inclined towards Germany (the whole country, not just south-west!). Hence leaning more towards a cost-effective state uni in ESB. HHL MiM is only for business grads (I'm over experienced for most MiMs in GER). Will be German B2 before program starts and continue further. Although top consulting firms do prefer students from top bschools, it's lesser the case in Germany. 

Also, what advantage does ESB have over a school such as EBS?

Understood your point. I'm inclined towards Germany (the whole country, not just south-west!). Hence leaning more towards a cost-effective state uni in ESB. HHL MiM is only for business grads (I'm over experienced for most MiMs in GER). Will be German B2 before program starts and continue further. Although top consulting firms do prefer students from top bschools, it's lesser the case in Germany.&nbsp;<br><br>Also, what advantage does ESB have over a school such as EBS?
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Duncan

EBS has a weird reputation as the sort of place where rich conservatives send their dumb kids to find spouses. It doesn't seem academically very rigourous or effective in placing international students into work. 

EBS has a weird reputation as the sort of place where rich conservatives send their dumb kids to find spouses. It doesn't seem academically very rigourous or effective in placing international students into work.&nbsp;
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BEAST

I researched on LinkedIn about EBS outcomes, talked to their grads & compared with ESB. Looks like although EBS does not have AACSB acc but the employers do recognise it as a good school & placements are good as well. But then, as per your review, ESB is a state school, a bit more rigorous. Is that so?

I researched on LinkedIn about EBS outcomes, talked to their grads &amp; compared with ESB. Looks like although EBS does not have AACSB acc but the employers do recognise it as a good school &amp; placements are good as well. But then, as per your review, ESB is a state school, a bit more rigorous. Is that so?
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Duncan

You may know more about EBS than me, so trust your gut over my opinion. Comparing the EBS DE MC alumni with MBAs with those of the other schools, some things strike me:
- A minority seems to have done their MBA at EBS: they are often alumni of pre-experience programmes.
- A glance at their profiles suggests these people are more German (and more local within Germany) than the other schools.
- A glance at their names suggests to me that these Germans are posher and benefit from more social capital. 
- Because of EBS's location, they are more entwined with the economy of Frankfurt.

Trust your gut. Bayes and HHL are much, much better as schools than ESB and EBS, as their admissions requirements, outcomes, rankings, better resources, wider accreditation and academic research profiles suggest. Focus on the gap you need to fill to present better to employers, and assess these schools on their ability to fill that gap. I am aware of the recurrent complaints international students in the EBS MBA that placement and internships were not available to them. However, many of them had worse German than you. YMMV, as they say. 

[Edited by Duncan on May 30, 2021]

You may know more about EBS than me, so trust your gut over my opinion. Comparing the EBS DE MC alumni with MBAs with those of the other schools, some things strike me:<br>- A minority seems to have done their MBA at EBS: they are often alumni of pre-experience programmes.<br>- A glance at their profiles suggests these people are more German (and more local within Germany) than the other schools.<br>- A glance at their names suggests to me that these Germans are posher and benefit from more social capital.&nbsp;<br>- Because of EBS's location, they are more entwined with the economy of Frankfurt.<br><br>Trust your gut. Bayes and HHL are much, much better as schools than ESB and EBS, as their admissions requirements, outcomes, rankings, better resources, wider accreditation and academic research profiles suggest. Focus on the gap you need to fill to present better to employers, and assess these schools on their ability to fill that gap. I am aware of the recurrent complaints international students in the EBS MBA that placement and internships were not available to them. However, many of them had worse German than you. YMMV, as they say.&nbsp;
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BEAST

Well explained. Bayes MiM/HHL MBA > ESB MBA > EBS
Comes down to country preference as well. But overall yes, "MSc from a higher ranked college will trump MBA from a lower ranked BSchool" 

Well explained. Bayes MiM/HHL MBA &gt; ESB MBA &gt; EBS<div><br>Comes down to country preference as well. But overall yes, "MSc from a higher ranked college will trump MBA from a lower ranked BSchool"&nbsp;</div>
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Duncan

Relevance also matters. I used to work somewhere that hired a lot of Cass MiMs. The quality is really high and, to be honest, there a huge supply of talented people who want to study in London's top business schools. They've had excellent progression, exemplary in fact, while my friend from ESB had more traditional, modest progression. I would pick HHL because it will certainly give you a more active and dynamic alumni network,  higher quality classmates and more of a personal transformation than ESB but a much better setting for language and acculturation, as well as a much better education, than the Bayes MiM.

[Edited by Duncan on May 30, 2021]

Relevance also matters. I used to work somewhere that hired a lot of Cass MiMs. The quality is really high and, to be honest, there a huge supply of talented people who want to study in London's top business schools. They've had excellent progression, exemplary in fact, while my friend from ESB had more traditional, modest progression. I would pick HHL because it will certainly give you a more active and dynamic alumni network,&nbsp; higher quality classmates and more of a personal transformation than ESB but a much better setting for language and acculturation, as well as a much better education, than the Bayes MiM.
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BEAST

Germany is definitely my preference as I've lived there in the past. Will try my best for HHL, financially that is. Otherwise ESB is a good bet I suppose.

Germany is definitely my preference as I've lived there in the past. Will try my best for HHL, financially that is. Otherwise ESB is a good bet I suppose.
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BEAST

How would you rate ESSEC's SMIB program in comparision to ESB/EBS/HHL? Does it make sense to go to ESSEC just for brand name?

How would you rate ESSEC's SMIB program in comparision to ESB/EBS/HHL? Does it make sense to go to ESSEC just for brand name?
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