GMAT Tiers - strong schools for your GMAT


danielya

Great, thanks Duncan!

Great, thanks Duncan!
quote

Duncan,
I belong to the Indian IT male engineer with a 650 GMAT score. Based on your analysis I should look at the Tier 4 (one tier below) instead of tier 3. But I have 9+ years of experience with 2+ years of project management exp. Want to understand whether the experience makes up the GMAT score. In my case should I consider the Tier 3 colleges?

Duncan,
I belong to the Indian IT male engineer with a 650 GMAT score. Based on your analysis I should look at the Tier 4 (one tier below) instead of tier 3. But I have 9+ years of experience with 2+ years of project management exp. Want to understand whether the experience makes up the GMAT score. In my case should I consider the Tier 3 colleges?
quote
Duncan

I would not recommend that.

I would not recommend that.
quote
mba hipste...

Duncan,
I belong to the Indian IT male engineer with a 650 GMAT score. Based on your analysis I should look at the Tier 4 (one tier below) instead of tier 3. But I have 9+ years of experience with 2+ years of project management exp. Want to understand whether the experience makes up the GMAT score. In my case should I consider the Tier 3 colleges?

What regions are you looking at? You might choose one higher school as a "reach" school and then choose maybe two or three other schools that you know you can get into, as safety schools.

Or there, are a number of MBA programs not included in these tiers which you might also consider: NCSU Poole, for instance, is ranked in Businessweek, and its average GMAT score is 634 while the average work experience is in the three year range. I think you'd be competitive there.

[quote]Duncan,
I belong to the Indian IT male engineer with a 650 GMAT score. Based on your analysis I should look at the Tier 4 (one tier below) instead of tier 3. But I have 9+ years of experience with 2+ years of project management exp. Want to understand whether the experience makes up the GMAT score. In my case should I consider the Tier 3 colleges?[/quote]
What regions are you looking at? You might choose one higher school as a "reach" school and then choose maybe two or three other schools that you know you can get into, as safety schools.

Or there, are a number of MBA programs not included in these tiers which you might also consider: NCSU Poole, for instance, is ranked in Businessweek, and its average GMAT score is 634 while the average work experience is in the three year range. I think you'd be competitive there.
quote
siddhant

Hey,
I am BBA graduate from Nepal. I scored 640 in my GMAT test. I have 2 years of experience. I am planning to apply for 2016 fall and I will have about 2years and 8 months of experience by then. I am working for my family business which is a manufacturing firm and I also have few startups with my friends. I am also working as BOD for an NGO here. Which universities or tier would be the best fit for me.

Hey,
I am BBA graduate from Nepal. I scored 640 in my GMAT test. I have 2 years of experience. I am planning to apply for 2016 fall and I will have about 2years and 8 months of experience by then. I am working for my family business which is a manufacturing firm and I also have few startups with my friends. I am also working as BOD for an NGO here. Which universities or tier would be the best fit for me.
quote
Duncan

Read the post at the top of the thread.

Read the post at the top of the thread.
quote
Onur76

Hi Duncan;

I have 10+ years engineering experience from Canada with 2.9 GPA looking for a German MBA with 600 GMAT. I am wondering if work experience effects the acceptance on top of GMAT score. I mean when we say GMAT 600 is averege, should we assume people get accepted with 5% +- score between 570-630? Should i apply to that school even with 570 because of my additional work experience? is there a safe %+-?

Thanks

Hi Duncan;

I have 10+ years engineering experience from Canada with 2.9 GPA looking for a German MBA with 600 GMAT. I am wondering if work experience effects the acceptance on top of GMAT score. I mean when we say GMAT 600 is averege, should we assume people get accepted with 5% +- score between 570-630? Should i apply to that school even with 570 because of my additional work experience? is there a safe %+-?

Thanks
quote
Duncan

No, it's not safe. The average GMAT score of unsuccessful candidates doesn't vary much from successful ones, and a weak GPA and a weak GMAT combine to make it sound like you will not do well in the academic part of an MBA. Certainly your work experience and your nationality is a huge help. I think they would also look at the balance between the elements in the GMAT. If you are off balance, then that will be another warning sign.

I am not sure which school you are looking at. The state-run Fachhochschulen will be much more flexible on academics, so Reutlingen, Esslingen and Pforzheim are safe options. I think EBS would also be interested in you. If you were to apply very early for 2016 then maybe HHL or WHU if you have a strong supporting statement or some good German already, but they will wonder about the placement you are looking for. For Mannheim or ESMT you'd really need to be up at 640 at least.

[Edited by Duncan on May 30, 2015]

No, it's not safe. The average GMAT score of unsuccessful candidates doesn't vary much from successful ones, and a weak GPA and a weak GMAT combine to make it sound like you will not do well in the academic part of an MBA. Certainly your work experience and your nationality is a huge help. I think they would also look at the balance between the elements in the GMAT. If you are off balance, then that will be another warning sign.

I am not sure which school you are looking at. The state-run Fachhochschulen will be much more flexible on academics, so Reutlingen, Esslingen and Pforzheim are safe options. I think EBS would also be interested in you. If you were to apply very early for 2016 then maybe HHL or WHU if you have a strong supporting statement or some good German already, but they will wonder about the placement you are looking for. For Mannheim or ESMT you'd really need to be up at 640 at least.
quote
Onur76

I understand. I am interested in Pforzheim or EBS but more EBS. I got a good feedback from both but not sure about Reutlingen or Esslingen since they don't have international accreditation. Mannheim or ESMT might be out of my budget and GMAT score. Unfortunately there are not many alternatives in Germany. How would you weigh Pforzheim and EBS overall?

Thanks

I understand. I am interested in Pforzheim or EBS but more EBS. I got a good feedback from both but not sure about Reutlingen or Esslingen since they don't have international accreditation. Mannheim or ESMT might be out of my budget and GMAT score. Unfortunately there are not many alternatives in Germany. How would you weigh Pforzheim and EBS overall?

Thanks
quote
Duncan

EBS has great connections. A very well-connected group of students. Pforzheim is more international, probably better for placement but less glamorous. I guess if you already speak German, then EBS, and if not then Pforzheim.

EBS has great connections. A very well-connected group of students. Pforzheim is more international, probably better for placement but less glamorous. I guess if you already speak German, then EBS, and if not then Pforzheim.
quote
ezra

Just noticed that you added a 5th tier, nice!

Just noticed that you added a 5th tier, nice!
quote

I kind of disagree; first, they could have been more selective in recent years GMATwise, but they didn't. There must be a reason for it. The fact is that Warwick is setting a minimum above its previous average, which seems to me pretty exaggerated. I think that this decision might give them higher ranking because of the higher GMAT average, but a a lesser interesting and diverse range of candidate. Lets face it, GMAT is more accessible to English speaking math geek than a French speaking candidate with a wide range of business experience. In the long run, this might affect the overall quality of the program. These are all suppositions, but its an opinion.
I completely agree. When I did the IEgat test there was an american guy who not only was the first to leave the examination room but it was the only to complete the test! There were plenty of skilled guys during that day but nobody of us completed the test..in fact, as also the advisor said, the test is designed not to be completed, but not only he did, but while we were still on the half of the verbal reasoning part he was on the logic part of the test having finished the verbal reasoning. This is the problem of the GMAT. It should be done in the candidate's mothertongue in order to measure his real, natural skills, while for the english language skills the business school already ask for proficiency tests (Ielts, Toefl, etc.).

It is most likely that english speaking guys reach the highest scores, except for many indian guys who stay very long time on GMAT prep in order to be more competitive as they are too numerous applying to business schools, so they are in great concurrency between each other. My opinion is that preparing a GMAT for an entire year is a great loss of time if you think that many MBA programs last just one year and the knowledges and skills that you acquire instead can change your life. If you think deeper about this, rarely somebody who is other than english mothertongue, reach 700 or more at the first GMAT exam. It means that the GMAT is only about training, while later somebody can demonstrate more skills than others...but at what price? One year repeating unvaluable exercises? In one year I can acquire plenty of skills, experience, and knowledges immediately spendable in a company, that the GMAT don't provide.

In order to apply for an international working position where both employees and clients speak english, the GMAT prep has a sense, differently no (even if graduating from a business school, so studying plenty of management related disciplines in english, neither an employer should be interested in your GMAT because he can reach all information he need through those several interviews and/or specific tests, as McKinsey does for example.

[Edited by Global MBA on Aug 15, 2015]

[quote]I kind of disagree; first, they could have been more selective in recent years GMATwise, but they didn't. There must be a reason for it. The fact is that Warwick is setting a minimum above its previous average, which seems to me pretty exaggerated. I think that this decision might give them higher ranking because of the higher GMAT average, but a a lesser interesting and diverse range of candidate. Lets face it, GMAT is more accessible to English speaking math geek than a French speaking candidate with a wide range of business experience. In the long run, this might affect the overall quality of the program. These are all suppositions, but its an opinion. [/quote]I completely agree. When I did the IEgat test there was an american guy who not only was the first to leave the examination room but it was the only to complete the test! There were plenty of skilled guys during that day but nobody of us completed the test..in fact, as also the advisor said, the test is designed not to be completed, but not only he did, but while we were still on the half of the verbal reasoning part he was on the logic part of the test having finished the verbal reasoning. This is the problem of the GMAT. It should be done in the candidate's mothertongue in order to measure his real, natural skills, while for the english language skills the business school already ask for proficiency tests (Ielts, Toefl, etc.).

It is most likely that english speaking guys reach the highest scores, except for many indian guys who stay very long time on GMAT prep in order to be more competitive as they are too numerous applying to business schools, so they are in great concurrency between each other. My opinion is that preparing a GMAT for an entire year is a great loss of time if you think that many MBA programs last just one year and the knowledges and skills that you acquire instead can change your life. If you think deeper about this, rarely somebody who is other than english mothertongue, reach 700 or more at the first GMAT exam. It means that the GMAT is only about training, while later somebody can demonstrate more skills than others...but at what price? One year repeating unvaluable exercises? In one year I can acquire plenty of skills, experience, and knowledges immediately spendable in a company, that the GMAT don't provide.

In order to apply for an international working position where both employees and clients speak english, the GMAT prep has a sense, differently no (even if graduating from a business school, so studying plenty of management related disciplines in english, neither an employer should be interested in your GMAT because he can reach all information he need through those several interviews and/or specific tests, as McKinsey does for example.
quote
Inactive User

@Duncan,

I am surprised to see a decline in average GMAT scores of many schools.
Purdue avg GMAT is now at ~617, I remember it was near 650 in 2012.
UC Irvine GMAT is now at ~658, again it was 670 in 2012.

I think many of these Tier-3 schools according to avg GMAT are moving towards Tier-4. Any insights on reasons behind this trend?

Ayon

@Duncan,

I am surprised to see a decline in average GMAT scores of many schools.
Purdue avg GMAT is now at ~617, I remember it was near 650 in 2012.
UC Irvine GMAT is now at ~658, again it was 670 in 2012.

I think many of these Tier-3 schools according to avg GMAT are moving towards Tier-4. Any insights on reasons behind this trend?

Ayon
quote
Duncan

Schools change, and so does the economy. Nothing special there.

Schools change, and so does the economy. Nothing special there.
quote

Hi Duncan,

I have not taken GMAT exam, does that mean there is no choice of getting into a good business school anywhere in the world?
What about IUBH, SRH, etc from Germany?

Thank you

Hi Duncan,

I have not taken GMAT exam, does that mean there is no choice of getting into a good business school anywhere in the world?
What about IUBH, SRH, etc from Germany?

Thank you
quote
Duncan

Read the post linked from my profile page called Why you should take the GMAT.

IUBH and SRH are not very good business schools.

Read the post linked from my profile page called Why you should take the GMAT.

IUBH and SRH are not very good business schools.
quote
yipkc

Hi Duncan,

I am a fan of your down-to-earth advices and totally appreciate what you do to assist those who want to propel in their career. Anyway, I couldn't find Aston Business School in your list but it has been ranked consistently in the top 100 MBA programs in the world. Please clarify. Thanks.

Albert

[Edited by yipkc on Oct 11, 2015]

Hi Duncan,

I am a fan of your down-to-earth advices and totally appreciate what you do to assist those who want to propel in their career. Anyway, I couldn't find Aston Business School in your list but it has been ranked consistently in the top 100 MBA programs in the world. Please clarify. Thanks.

Albert
quote
Duncan

Has Aston been consistently listed in the top 100 MBAs?
http://rankings.ft.com/businessschoolrankings/global-mba-ranking-2015
http://rankings.ft.com/businessschoolrankings/global-mba-ranking-2014
http://rankings.ft.com/businessschoolrankings/global-mba-ranking-2013

Has Aston been consistently listed in the top 100 MBAs?
http://rankings.ft.com/businessschoolrankings/global-mba-ranking-2015
http://rankings.ft.com/businessschoolrankings/global-mba-ranking-2014
http://rankings.ft.com/businessschoolrankings/global-mba-ranking-2013
quote
MBCR

Hey Duncan,

I know you're probably already tired of answering questions like this, but I have been to campus tours of some of the best universities in Europe this last couple of months, and I'd like to discuss how much more of a GMAT score would you consider enough to balance any of your "Deficits". Considering I have the schools' input, I might be able to add something to your "rationale".
I'm a male Portuguese/Brazilian engineer, more specifically an Aeronautical Engineer (Hey, not so many rocket scientists out there!), with 4 years of experience (5 years at enrollment) in investment banking (M&A) with the last being the founding of my own M&A consultancy firm. I also have some uncommon extra-curriculars (I'm a certified airplane pilot and a certified diver)
Considering I have a GPA of 7/10 (which most schools in the anglo-saxon world would consider low, but is actually very high at my Alma mater), I set out to compensate it with a high GMAT of 750 (which I got recently).
I am only applying to tier 1 and top tier 2 schools (LBS, HBS, GSB, Wharton, INSEAD, HEC Paris, IMD, Said, and Judge).
Would you consider my strategy have been based only on "stretch" goals, due to my "male engineer background"?

My view is that my GMAT score, along with my career progression and field have more than compensated for my "Deficit". I understand your need to simplification to cater to a wider public (congrats on the views), if that is indeed the case, but wouldn't you say that a male engineer can offset the deficit of his common background by simply getting a higher GMAT (like +40, or 730, for Tier 1, for example)?

[Edited by MBCR on Oct 15, 2015]

Hey Duncan,

I know you're probably already tired of answering questions like this, but I have been to campus tours of some of the best universities in Europe this last couple of months, and I'd like to discuss how much more of a GMAT score would you consider enough to balance any of your "Deficits". Considering I have the schools' input, I might be able to add something to your "rationale".
I'm a male Portuguese/Brazilian engineer, more specifically an Aeronautical Engineer (Hey, not so many rocket scientists out there!), with 4 years of experience (5 years at enrollment) in investment banking (M&A) with the last being the founding of my own M&A consultancy firm. I also have some uncommon extra-curriculars (I'm a certified airplane pilot and a certified diver)
Considering I have a GPA of 7/10 (which most schools in the anglo-saxon world would consider low, but is actually very high at my Alma mater), I set out to compensate it with a high GMAT of 750 (which I got recently).
I am only applying to tier 1 and top tier 2 schools (LBS, HBS, GSB, Wharton, INSEAD, HEC Paris, IMD, Said, and Judge).
Would you consider my strategy have been based only on "stretch" goals, due to my "male engineer background"?

My view is that my GMAT score, along with my career progression and field have more than compensated for my "Deficit". I understand your need to simplification to cater to a wider public (congrats on the views), if that is indeed the case, but wouldn't you say that a male engineer can offset the deficit of his common background by simply getting a higher GMAT (like +40, or 730, for Tier 1, for example)?

quote
Duncan

The good news is that, yes, I think your background is valuable and atypical. That makes your GMAT score useful. I think most of the schools you mention would want to interview you, if you have a good application.

But on your second question: No, I don't think a GMAT score by itself will offset the concerns that admissions committees have about those applicants. Indeed, high GMAT scores are not uncommon with engineers. There are only so many that schools can have, and the lack of soft skills and leadership experience will remain an issue.

[Edited by Duncan on Oct 15, 2015]

The good news is that, yes, I think your background is valuable and atypical. That makes your GMAT score useful. I think most of the schools you mention would want to interview you, if you have a good application.

But on your second question: No, I don't think a GMAT score by itself will offset the concerns that admissions committees have about those applicants. Indeed, high GMAT scores are not uncommon with engineers. There are only so many that schools can have, and the lack of soft skills and leadership experience will remain an issue.
quote

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