GMAT Tiers - strong schools for your GMAT


Duncan- what is the second deduction for? First i understand is for the Indian IT Male group

Duncan- what is the second deduction for? First i understand is for the Indian IT Male group
quote
Duncan

I wrote:--

"For each of the following cases, I suggest you subtract one tier to find safe schools:
* - If you are in a very competitive group (like a male engineer or IT guy), or
* - from a country with a large number of MBA applicants (like from India or China), or
* - you have the bare minimum of work experience."

You meet two of these three.

I wrote:--

"For each of the following cases, I suggest you subtract one tier to find safe schools:
* - If you are in a very competitive group (like a male engineer or IT guy), or
* - from a country with a large number of MBA applicants (like from India or China), or
* - you have the bare minimum of work experience."

You meet two of these three.
quote

Hello Gaurav,
I think you should believe in yourself and give it a try for tier 1 and tier 2 schools. A friend of mine got into INSEAD and Oxford: Saad. He is Chinese with 4 years' WE, business development role in a Germany company in China, has some international exposure as he travels between China and south-east asia frequently. He scored 710 in GMAT.
If there is anything I've learned from my application experiences, that is "don't limit yourself". Not to mention that your experience as a model really makes you stand out.
That is not to say, that I don't agree with Duncan's post and I am certainly not here to challenge him ;)
Good luck!

Hello Gaurav,
I think you should believe in yourself and give it a try for tier 1 and tier 2 schools. A friend of mine got into INSEAD and Oxford: Saad. He is Chinese with 4 years' WE, business development role in a Germany company in China, has some international exposure as he travels between China and south-east asia frequently. He scored 710 in GMAT.
If there is anything I've learned from my application experiences, that is "don't limit yourself". Not to mention that your experience as a model really makes you stand out.
That is not to say, that I don't agree with Duncan's post and I am certainly not here to challenge him ;)
Good luck!
quote
badux

That's interesting. Perhaps that your friend's international experience tipped the scales in his favor? I also think that many people who apply to these top tier schools with high GMAT scores usually have some kind of tech-heavy background: engineering, IT, etc., and your friend's more diverse work experience might have made him stand out from the pack.

That's interesting. Perhaps that your friend's international experience tipped the scales in his favor? I also think that many people who apply to these top tier schools with high GMAT scores usually have some kind of tech-heavy background: engineering, IT, etc., and your friend's more diverse work experience might have made him stand out from the pack.
quote
phania

Hi Duncan,

I am an IT professional(female) from india with 6.5+ yrs of work experience, with 3.5 years as Business System analyst and 0.5 years as Operations Manager in Investment Banking and Financial Risk Management Domains.
1.5 years at Client location in Singapore with Swiss Investment Bank.
GMAT score : 690

Please advise if my profile has a chance to stand out from the usual Indian IT profiles for application to below colleges:
1. Mays(texas)
2. Smeal(Pennsylvania State)
3. UT Dallas (Jindal school of Business)
4. Trulaske school of business,Missouri

Also, please suggest if some other colleges would be better suited for my mba application.

Regards,
Ananya

Hi Duncan,

I am an IT professional(female) from india with 6.5+ yrs of work experience, with 3.5 years as Business System analyst and 0.5 years as Operations Manager in Investment Banking and Financial Risk Management Domains.
1.5 years at Client location in Singapore with Swiss Investment Bank.
GMAT score : 690

Please advise if my profile has a chance to stand out from the usual Indian IT profiles for application to below colleges:
1. Mays(texas)
2. Smeal(Pennsylvania State)
3. UT Dallas (Jindal school of Business)
4. Trulaske school of business,Missouri

Also, please suggest if some other colleges would be better suited for my mba application.

Regards,
Ananya
quote
Duncan

You can answer this yourself: read the post at the start of this thread.

You can answer this yourself: read the post at the start of this thread.
quote
azc

You can answer this yourself: read the post at the start of this thread.


Dear Duncan/all seniors,
Appreciate your vision and knowledge about MBA programs. More I read blogs more I am getting confused about the best pick. I am sharing my short scenario case and career objective with you.
I am 39 from Pakistan working in NOC at Qatar. My short term goals are to work for IOC (E & P) company in UK anywhere or Aberdeen. My immigration process for Canada is about to mature and there is a minute possibility that I may be looking for some career options in Calgary/Alberta market. Reason for giving preference to UK is related to my better half professional career as she is a medical practitioner and she has clinical practice prospects in UK with no or very less chances in Canada/USA market.
My long term objectives are to establish my own business in any line of business like management/marketing/manufacturing/trading or anything else (I kept myself open to all to evaluate further till date).
I have seen couple of posts from you to target FT ranked college, but when I see the alumni status of Robert Gordon that gives me a different picture in my case as compared to Warwick, Imperial, Strathclyde.
https://www.linkedin.com/edu/alumni?id=12660
I can afford to do only online / Executive MBA. On campus MBA is not an option for me.
Question: Executive MBA normally are at much high rates than Online MBA. Is it worth to spend more money on Executive when you have same courses options in online degree?
Do these colleges like Warwick and Imperial mention on their degrees about mode of course, say online MBA?
Please advise me best suited program, I am open to US options too like Fisher/Kelly/Arizona State Uni/UT Dallas/ even though US programs are double the priced and has less ROI.

<blockquote>You can answer this yourself: read the post at the start of this thread.</blockquote>

Dear Duncan/all seniors,
Appreciate your vision and knowledge about MBA programs. More I read blogs more I am getting confused about the best pick. I am sharing my short scenario case and career objective with you.
I am 39 from Pakistan working in NOC at Qatar. My short term goals are to work for IOC (E & P) company in UK anywhere or Aberdeen. My immigration process for Canada is about to mature and there is a minute possibility that I may be looking for some career options in Calgary/Alberta market. Reason for giving preference to UK is related to my better half professional career as she is a medical practitioner and she has clinical practice prospects in UK with no or very less chances in Canada/USA market.
My long term objectives are to establish my own business in any line of business like management/marketing/manufacturing/trading or anything else (I kept myself open to all to evaluate further till date).
I have seen couple of posts from you to target FT ranked college, but when I see the alumni status of Robert Gordon that gives me a different picture in my case as compared to Warwick, Imperial, Strathclyde.
https://www.linkedin.com/edu/alumni?id=12660
I can afford to do only online / Executive MBA. On campus MBA is not an option for me.
Question: Executive MBA normally are at much high rates than Online MBA. Is it worth to spend more money on Executive when you have same courses options in online degree?
Do these colleges like Warwick and Imperial mention on their degrees about mode of course, say online MBA?
Please advise me best suited program, I am open to US options too like Fisher/Kelly/Arizona State Uni/UT Dallas/ even though US programs are double the priced and has less ROI.
quote
Duncan

I suggest people reply to you at http://www.find-mba.com/board/41923/1#post-41939 where you have asked the same question.

I suggest people reply to you at http://www.find-mba.com/board/41923/1#post-41939 where you have asked the same question.
quote

If you apply for a school where your GMAT is equal to, or higher than, the average you stand a better chance of admission than at schools where your GMAT is below average. The GMAT isn't the only factor for business schools: if you have an unusual or desirable background then you can get away with being average or below average. However, many people using this site - and especially Indians - are in a highly competitive situation where they have to be better than average to get into a school.

In the list below, I've taken most of the world's leading business schools and broken them into four tiers. The average GMAT score at each school is used to create the tiers. Within each tier, the schools are ranked by average alumni salary. As a rule of thumb, the ten schools at the top of a tier have a higher salary than than the ten schools at the bottom of the previous tier, often because the professional background and educational quality is better at those schools.

If you're a strong candidate, apply towards the top of the tier where your GMAT is similar to the average.

For each of the following cases, I suggest you subtract one tier to find safe schools:
* - If you are in a very competitive group (like a male engineer or IT guy), or
* - from a country with a large number of MBA applicants (like from India or China), or
* - you have the bare minimum of work experience.
Under these circumstances, apply the same number of tiers lower than your GMAT to maximise your chances of admission and financial aid.

If you have less work experience, you'll generally be a more competitive candidate towards the bottom of the tier you are targetting.

GMAT Tier 1 - GMAT over 690

Stanford University GSB
Indian Institute of Management, Ahmedabad (IIMA)
University of Pennsylvania: Wharton
Harvard Business School
Columbia Business School
MIT Sloan School of Management
Dartmouth College: Tuck
University of Chicago: Booth
Insead
Yale School of Management
London Business School
University of California at Berkeley: Haas
Northwestern University: Kellogg
Cornell University: Johnson
New York University: Stern
UCLA: Anderson
University of Michigan: Ross
Duke University: Fuqua
Indian School of Business
University of Oxford: Saïd
University of Virginia: Darden
Ceibs
University of North Carolina: Kenan-Flagler

University of Southern California: Marshall is in Tier 1 for the two-year MBA.

GMAT Tier 2 - GMAT over 670

IE Business School
IMD
University of Cambridge: Judge
Cranfield School of Management
Iese Business School
Georgetown University: McDonough
Carnegie Mellon: Tepper
HEC Paris
Emory University: Goizueta
University of Texas at Austin: McCombs
Rice University: Jones
Vanderbilt University: Owen
University of Rochester: Simon
Boston College: Carroll
University of Notre Dame: Mendoza
University of Washington Business School: Foster
Wisconsin School of Business
Georgia Institute of Technology
Boston University School of Management
University of California at Irvine: Merage
University of California: Davis
Ohio State University: Fisher
Brigham Young University: Marriott
Arizona State University: Carey

GMAT Tier 3 - GMAT 650 or higher

Hong Kong UST Business School
Esade Business School
City University: Cass
Australian School of Business: AGSM
Imperial College Business School
Indiana University: Kelley
Melbourne Business School
University of Maryland: Smith
SDA Bocconi
Pennsylvania State University: Smeal
Wake Forest University: Babcock
Vlerick Leuven Gent Management School
Nanyang Business School
University of Western Ontario: Ivey
University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
National University of Singapore School of Business
Purdue University: Krannert
Pepperdine University: Graziadio
University of Toronto: Rotman
University of Florida: Hough
McGill University: Desautels
University of Iowa: Tippie
University of British Columbia: Sauder
York University: Schulich
SP Jain Center of Management

Warwick Business School is now also in Tier 3 since it has a 650 minimum now.

GMAT Tier 4 - GMAT under 650

University of Cape Town GSB
University of Southern California: Marshall - One year IBEAR MBA
Manchester Business School
Babson College: Olin
Lancaster University Management School
Texas A & M University: Mays
Rotterdam School of Management, Erasmus University
Hult International Business School
University College Dublin: Smurfit
University of Strathclyde Business School
SMU: Cox
Thunderbird School of Global Management
University of Edinburgh Business School
University of Georgia: Terry
Durham Business School
Kaist College of Business
College of William and Mary: Mason
Birmingham Business School
Ipade
Leeds University Business School
University of South Carolina: Moore
Eada
EM Lyon Business School
Incae Business School
Bradford School of Management/TiasNimbas Business School
Politecnico di Milano School of Management
IAE Business School

If you know the average GMAT and salary for any other schools, or if you you think a school should be in a different tier, then let me know. Where possible I am using median rather than mean GMATs, so don't be surprised if there are a few differences. School that use scholarships to bring in a small number of very high GMAT students to pump up the mean (like Georgetown, Hult, and TiasNimbas) might not be where you expect.

PS Don't forget that there are many other factors at work. GMAT points trade off all the other criteria that admissions managers look for. If you're strong on several other criteria then certainly try a stretch school that's a tier above your average.


Dear Duncan,
What are your thoughts about this profile and which colleges/ tier would you suggest I target. Looking at colleges in the US and Asia-Pacific region only.

Education - B.Sc. Economics(Major) - 51% (3 year course)
Current GMAT - 710
Work Ex- Handling of family business - Manufacture cattle feed supplement. I personally handle the pharmaceutical clients, handle the procurement of raw materials and packaging materials. I handle the pricing of our products too. The company has seen an increase of turnover of over 200% since the time I have taken up the responsibility from my father.Have also stabilised a permanent labour force and increased the plant running time from 5-10 days a month to about 20-25days a month now.
Have been working since 2012 July.
Why MBA - Have minimum or no experience in marketing. Hence, to move from a B2B business to marketing our products directly, would like to pursue an MBA. Hoping to work in the marketing sector of a reputed company for 5-6years before coming back into the family business.
Would appreciate your take on the profile, prospects of an MBA and which colleges to target.
Regards,
Badshah Saha.

<blockquote>If you apply for a school where your GMAT is equal to, or higher than, the average you stand a better chance of admission than at schools where your GMAT is below average. The GMAT isn't the only factor for business schools: if you have an unusual or desirable background then you can get away with being average or below average. However, many people using this site - and especially Indians - are in a highly competitive situation where they have to be better than average to get into a school.

In the list below, I've taken most of the world's leading business schools and broken them into four tiers. The average GMAT score at each school is used to create the tiers. Within each tier, the schools are ranked by average alumni salary. As a rule of thumb, the ten schools at the top of a tier have a higher salary than than the ten schools at the bottom of the previous tier, often because the professional background and educational quality is better at those schools.

If you're a strong candidate, apply towards the top of the tier where your GMAT is similar to the average.

For each of the following cases, I suggest you subtract one tier to find safe schools:
* - If you are in a very competitive group (like a male engineer or IT guy), or
* - from a country with a large number of MBA applicants (like from India or China), or
* - you have the bare minimum of work experience.
Under these circumstances, apply the same number of tiers lower than your GMAT to maximise your chances of admission and financial aid.

If you have less work experience, you'll generally be a more competitive candidate towards the bottom of the tier you are targetting.

GMAT Tier 1 - GMAT over 690

Stanford University GSB
Indian Institute of Management, Ahmedabad (IIMA)
University of Pennsylvania: Wharton
Harvard Business School
Columbia Business School
MIT Sloan School of Management
Dartmouth College: Tuck
University of Chicago: Booth
Insead
Yale School of Management
London Business School
University of California at Berkeley: Haas
Northwestern University: Kellogg
Cornell University: Johnson
New York University: Stern
UCLA: Anderson
University of Michigan: Ross
Duke University: Fuqua
Indian School of Business
University of Oxford: Saïd
University of Virginia: Darden
Ceibs
University of North Carolina: Kenan-Flagler

University of Southern California: Marshall is in Tier 1 for the two-year MBA.

GMAT Tier 2 - GMAT over 670

IE Business School
IMD
University of Cambridge: Judge
Cranfield School of Management
Iese Business School
Georgetown University: McDonough
Carnegie Mellon: Tepper
HEC Paris
Emory University: Goizueta
University of Texas at Austin: McCombs
Rice University: Jones
Vanderbilt University: Owen
University of Rochester: Simon
Boston College: Carroll
University of Notre Dame: Mendoza
University of Washington Business School: Foster
Wisconsin School of Business
Georgia Institute of Technology
Boston University School of Management
University of California at Irvine: Merage
University of California: Davis
Ohio State University: Fisher
Brigham Young University: Marriott
Arizona State University: Carey

GMAT Tier 3 - GMAT 650 or higher

Hong Kong UST Business School
Esade Business School
City University: Cass
Australian School of Business: AGSM
Imperial College Business School
Indiana University: Kelley
Melbourne Business School
University of Maryland: Smith
SDA Bocconi
Pennsylvania State University: Smeal
Wake Forest University: Babcock
Vlerick Leuven Gent Management School
Nanyang Business School
University of Western Ontario: Ivey
University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
National University of Singapore School of Business
Purdue University: Krannert
Pepperdine University: Graziadio
University of Toronto: Rotman
University of Florida: Hough
McGill University: Desautels
University of Iowa: Tippie
University of British Columbia: Sauder
York University: Schulich
SP Jain Center of Management

Warwick Business School is now also in Tier 3 since it has a 650 minimum now.

GMAT Tier 4 - GMAT under 650

University of Cape Town GSB
University of Southern California: Marshall - One year IBEAR MBA
Manchester Business School
Babson College: Olin
Lancaster University Management School
Texas A & M University: Mays
Rotterdam School of Management, Erasmus University
Hult International Business School
University College Dublin: Smurfit
University of Strathclyde Business School
SMU: Cox
Thunderbird School of Global Management
University of Edinburgh Business School
University of Georgia: Terry
Durham Business School
Kaist College of Business
College of William and Mary: Mason
Birmingham Business School
Ipade
Leeds University Business School
University of South Carolina: Moore
Eada
EM Lyon Business School
Incae Business School
Bradford School of Management/TiasNimbas Business School
Politecnico di Milano School of Management
IAE Business School

If you know the average GMAT and salary for any other schools, or if you you think a school should be in a different tier, then let me know. Where possible I am using median rather than mean GMATs, so don't be surprised if there are a few differences. School that use scholarships to bring in a small number of very high GMAT students to pump up the mean (like Georgetown, Hult, and TiasNimbas) might not be where you expect.

PS Don't forget that there are many other factors at work. GMAT points trade off all the other criteria that admissions managers look for. If you're strong on several other criteria then certainly try a stretch school that's a tier above your average.</blockquote>

Dear Duncan,
What are your thoughts about this profile and which colleges/ tier would you suggest I target. Looking at colleges in the US and Asia-Pacific region only.

Education - B.Sc. Economics(Major) - 51% (3 year course)
Current GMAT - 710
Work Ex- Handling of family business - Manufacture cattle feed supplement. I personally handle the pharmaceutical clients, handle the procurement of raw materials and packaging materials. I handle the pricing of our products too. The company has seen an increase of turnover of over 200% since the time I have taken up the responsibility from my father.Have also stabilised a permanent labour force and increased the plant running time from 5-10 days a month to about 20-25days a month now.
Have been working since 2012 July.
Why MBA - Have minimum or no experience in marketing. Hence, to move from a B2B business to marketing our products directly, would like to pursue an MBA. Hoping to work in the marketing sector of a reputed company for 5-6years before coming back into the family business.
Would appreciate your take on the profile, prospects of an MBA and which colleges to target.
Regards,
Badshah Saha.
quote
Duncan

I think you can work this out for yourself by reading this post.

I think you can work this out for yourself by reading this post.
quote
sudeep

Hi Duncan,

Do the tiers still hold true? Or the original list of schools in the 4 tiers been updated recently?

Rgs
Sudeep

Hi Duncan,

Do the tiers still hold true? Or the original list of schools in the 4 tiers been updated recently?

Rgs
Sudeep
quote
sudeep

Like is Rotterdam really in tier 4 and Kelley in Tier 3?
What about German MBAs, do they make it in any of the tiers?
No St Gallen either in any of the tiers?

Personally been dinged at ISB, Kenan-Flagler, Ross - all after interviews. Now looking in the lower tier :)

Like is Rotterdam really in tier 4 and Kelley in Tier 3?
What about German MBAs, do they make it in any of the tiers?
No St Gallen either in any of the tiers?

Personally been dinged at ISB, Kenan-Flagler, Ross - all after interviews. Now looking in the lower tier :)
quote

Hi,
I'm from India.
I have 3.5 years work ex in Analytics. My GMAT score is 690.
Is it viable for me to apply to Tier-1 colleges?

Thanks,
Ashwin

Hi,
I'm from India.
I have 3.5 years work ex in Analytics. My GMAT score is 690.
Is it viable for me to apply to Tier-1 colleges?

Thanks,
Ashwin
quote
Duncan

Have you considered reading the post at the start of this thread?

Have you considered reading the post at the start of this thread?
quote
danielya

Hi Duncan,

I'm a recent graduate from the University at Buffalo (December '13) with a Business Administration degree with concentrations in HR & International Business. I'm looking to go to an MBA to advance my career in HR. I've worked as an Assistant and am now focusing on Talent Acquisition, but want an MBA to increase my earnings and achieve a more managerial role. Ideal goal would be to lead an HR department down the line.

I know MBA isn't the typical path for HR people, but I am interested in it as I think it's important to understand the business and its language as an HR partner, especially at higher levels.

Do you think I'll have an easier or more difficult time getting into school because of my desired career path in HR? I'm a white, American male with less than one year's experience out of school and I have yet to take the GMAT. Just trying to plan ahead and get a feel for it so I can plan the next few years accordingly (whether I should switch jobs, when to apply for school, etc) Thank you! This is a great help to me.

Best,

Dan

Hi Duncan,

I'm a recent graduate from the University at Buffalo (December '13) with a Business Administration degree with concentrations in HR & International Business. I'm looking to go to an MBA to advance my career in HR. I've worked as an Assistant and am now focusing on Talent Acquisition, but want an MBA to increase my earnings and achieve a more managerial role. Ideal goal would be to lead an HR department down the line.

I know MBA isn't the typical path for HR people, but I am interested in it as I think it's important to understand the business and its language as an HR partner, especially at higher levels.

Do you think I'll have an easier or more difficult time getting into school because of my desired career path in HR? I'm a white, American male with less than one year's experience out of school and I have yet to take the GMAT. Just trying to plan ahead and get a feel for it so I can plan the next few years accordingly (whether I should switch jobs, when to apply for school, etc) Thank you! This is a great help to me.

Best,

Dan
quote
Duncan

Wanting to get into HR don't be a limitation, but the question is not why would you want an MBA but why would an employer want an MBA for an HR role where they would be overskilled? Take a look at How to use LinkedIn to find the best school www.find-mba.com/board/33571 and perhaps look at HR consulting teams in firms like Deloitte and Oliver Wyman. If you need a more detailed response, read my profile page.

Wanting to get into HR don't be a limitation, but the question is not why would you want an MBA but why would an employer want an MBA for an HR role where they would be overskilled? Take a look at How to use LinkedIn to find the best school www.find-mba.com/board/33571 and perhaps look at HR consulting teams in firms like Deloitte and Oliver Wyman. If you need a more detailed response, read my profile page.
quote
danielya

Would an employer find me overskilled with an MBA though? The last thing I'd need is to position myself in such a way where I become too overqualified to find a position.

My opinion is an employer would want an HR person to have an MBA so they have a stronger understanding of the business end of the organization, which gives them a stronger knowledge base across all areas. Being able to 'speak the language' of other functions in the organization is important, and it's one of the things I've seen a lot of HR people lack, since many "fall into" the profession. I also think it'll increase the likelihood of being considered for a managerial / director role down the line, which is where I see myself.

Will take a look, thanks for the advice, Duncan.

- Dan

Would an employer find me overskilled with an MBA though? The last thing I'd need is to position myself in such a way where I become too overqualified to find a position.

My opinion is an employer would want an HR person to have an MBA so they have a stronger understanding of the business end of the organization, which gives them a stronger knowledge base across all areas. Being able to 'speak the language' of other functions in the organization is important, and it's one of the things I've seen a lot of HR people lack, since many "fall into" the profession. I also think it'll increase the likelihood of being considered for a managerial / director role down the line, which is where I see myself.

Will take a look, thanks for the advice, Duncan.

- Dan
quote
Duncan

If most HR people don;t have an MBA then perhaps employers do not think the premium required to pay an MBA is justified when hiring an HR role. I'd look at HR programmes well integrated into business schools, like: http://www.krannert.purdue.edu/masters/programs/mshrm/home.asp

[Edited by Duncan on Feb 18, 2017]

If most HR people don;t have an MBA then perhaps employers do not think the premium required to pay an MBA is justified when hiring an HR role. I'd look at HR programmes well integrated into business schools, like: http://www.krannert.purdue.edu/masters/programs/mshrm/home.asp
quote
danielya

Thanks Duncan,

One last question - do you think then it's important to aim for an MBA in a geographic location where you'd like to work / live, for the purposes of building a network in that area? Or at the higher tiers it doesn't really matter as much? Just curious from your experience.

I had trouble finding a job as a bachelors of business in NYC after attending school in Buffalo, so I don't know if the same occurs at the master's level.

Thanks,

Dan

Thanks Duncan,

One last question - do you think then it's important to aim for an MBA in a geographic location where you'd like to work / live, for the purposes of building a network in that area? Or at the higher tiers it doesn't really matter as much? Just curious from your experience.

I had trouble finding a job as a bachelors of business in NYC after attending school in Buffalo, so I don't know if the same occurs at the master's level.

Thanks,

Dan
quote
Duncan

Yes, study where you want to work.

Yes, study where you want to work.
quote

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MBA Application: What is a Good GMAT Score?

Article May 14, 2018

A high GMAT score can make or break your chances of admission to a top MBA program, so what score should you aim for?

Top 10 MBA Programs for a 680 GMAT Score

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We’ve crunched the data, finding the best schools for those who scored a respectable 680 on the GMAT. If you’re around that score, then it makes sense to target schools with a similar average. That does not mean compromising on quality though.

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