Duncan- what is the second deduction for? First i understand is for the Indian IT Male group

I wrote:--

"For each of the following cases, I suggest you subtract one tier to find safe schools:
* - If you are in a very competitive group (like a male engineer or IT guy), or
* - from a country with a large number of MBA applicants (like from India or China), or
* - you have the bare minimum of work experience."

You meet two of these three.

Hello Gaurav,
I think you should believe in yourself and give it a try for tier 1 and tier 2 schools. A friend of mine got into INSEAD and Oxford: Saad. He is Chinese with 4 years' WE, business development role in a Germany company in China, has some international exposure as he travels between China and south-east asia frequently. He scored 710 in GMAT.
If there is anything I've learned from my application experiences, that is "don't limit yourself". Not to mention that your experience as a model really makes you stand out.
That is not to say, that I don't agree with Duncan's post and I am certainly not here to challenge him ;)
Good luck!

That's interesting. Perhaps that your friend's international experience tipped the scales in his favor? I also think that many people who apply to these top tier schools with high GMAT scores usually have some kind of tech-heavy background: engineering, IT, etc., and your friend's more diverse work experience might have made him stand out from the pack.

Hi Duncan,

I am an IT professional(female) from india with 6.5+ yrs of work experience, with 3.5 years as Business System analyst and 0.5 years as Operations Manager in Investment Banking and Financial Risk Management Domains.
1.5 years at Client location in Singapore with Swiss Investment Bank.
GMAT score : 690

Please advise if my profile has a chance to stand out from the usual Indian IT profiles for application to below colleges:
1. Mays(texas)
2. Smeal(Pennsylvania State)
3. UT Dallas (Jindal school of Business)
4. Trulaske school of business,Missouri

Also, please suggest if some other colleges would be better suited for my mba application.

Regards,
Ananya

You can answer this yourself: read the post at the start of this thread.

You can answer this yourself: read the post at the start of this thread.

I suggest people reply to you at http://www.find-mba.com/board/41923/1#post-41939 where you have asked the same question.

If you apply for a school where your GMAT is equal to, or higher than, the average you stand a better chance of admission than at schools where your GMAT is below average. The GMAT isn't the only factor for business schools: if you have an unusual or desirable background then you can get away with being average or below average. However, many people using this site - and especially Indians - are in a highly competitive situation where they have to be better than average to get into a school.

In the list below, I've taken most of the world's leading business schools and broken them into four tiers. The average GMAT score at each school is used to create the tiers. Within each tier, the schools are ranked by average alumni salary. As a rule of thumb, the ten schools at the top of a tier have a higher salary than than the ten schools at the bottom of the previous tier, often because the professional background and educational quality is better at those schools.

If you're a strong candidate, apply towards the top of the tier where your GMAT is similar to the average.

For each of the following cases, I suggest you subtract one tier to find safe schools:
* - If you are in a very competitive group (like a male engineer or IT guy), or
* - from a country with a large number of MBA applicants (like from India or China), or
* - you have the bare minimum of work experience.
Under these circumstances, apply the same number of tiers lower than your GMAT to maximise your chances of admission and financial aid.

If you have less work experience, you'll generally be a more competitive candidate towards the bottom of the tier you are targetting.

GMAT Tier 1 - GMAT over 690

Stanford University GSB
Indian Institute of Management, Ahmedabad (IIMA)
University of Pennsylvania: Wharton
Harvard Business School
Columbia Business School
MIT Sloan School of Management
Dartmouth College: Tuck
University of Chicago: Booth
Insead
Yale School of Management
London Business School
University of California at Berkeley: Haas
Northwestern University: Kellogg
Cornell University: Johnson
New York University: Stern
UCLA: Anderson
University of Michigan: Ross
Duke University: Fuqua
Indian School of Business
University of Oxford: Saïd
University of Virginia: Darden
Ceibs
University of North Carolina: Kenan-Flagler

University of Southern California: Marshall is in Tier 1 for the two-year MBA.

GMAT Tier 2 - GMAT over 670

IE Business School
IMD
University of Cambridge: Judge
Cranfield School of Management
Iese Business School
Georgetown University: McDonough
Carnegie Mellon: Tepper
HEC Paris
Emory University: Goizueta
University of Texas at Austin: McCombs
Rice University: Jones
Vanderbilt University: Owen
University of Rochester: Simon
Boston College: Carroll
University of Notre Dame: Mendoza
University of Washington Business School: Foster
Wisconsin School of Business
Georgia Institute of Technology
Boston University School of Management
University of California at Irvine: Merage
University of California: Davis
Ohio State University: Fisher
Brigham Young University: Marriott
Arizona State University: Carey

GMAT Tier 3 - GMAT 650 or higher

Hong Kong UST Business School
Esade Business School
City University: Cass
Australian School of Business: AGSM
Imperial College Business School
Indiana University: Kelley
Melbourne Business School
University of Maryland: Smith
SDA Bocconi
Pennsylvania State University: Smeal
Wake Forest University: Babcock
Vlerick Leuven Gent Management School
Nanyang Business School
University of Western Ontario: Ivey
University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
National University of Singapore School of Business
Purdue University: Krannert
Pepperdine University: Graziadio
University of Toronto: Rotman
University of Florida: Hough
McGill University: Desautels
University of Iowa: Tippie
University of British Columbia: Sauder
York University: Schulich
SP Jain Center of Management

Warwick Business School is now also in Tier 3 since it has a 650 minimum now.

GMAT Tier 4 - GMAT under 650

University of Cape Town GSB
University of Southern California: Marshall - One year IBEAR MBA
Manchester Business School
Babson College: Olin
Lancaster University Management School
Texas A & M University: Mays
Rotterdam School of Management, Erasmus University
Hult International Business School
University College Dublin: Smurfit
University of Strathclyde Business School
SMU: Cox
Thunderbird School of Global Management
University of Edinburgh Business School
University of Georgia: Terry
Durham Business School
Kaist College of Business
College of William and Mary: Mason
Birmingham Business School
Ipade
Leeds University Business School
University of South Carolina: Moore
Eada
EM Lyon Business School
Incae Business School
Bradford School of Management/TiasNimbas Business School
Politecnico di Milano School of Management
IAE Business School

If you know the average GMAT and salary for any other schools, or if you you think a school should be in a different tier, then let me know. Where possible I am using median rather than mean GMATs, so don't be surprised if there are a few differences. School that use scholarships to bring in a small number of very high GMAT students to pump up the mean (like Georgetown, Hult, and TiasNimbas) might not be where you expect.

PS Don't forget that there are many other factors at work. GMAT points trade off all the other criteria that admissions managers look for. If you're strong on several other criteria then certainly try a stretch school that's a tier above your average.

I think you can work this out for yourself by reading this post.

Hi Duncan,

Do the tiers still hold true? Or the original list of schools in the 4 tiers been updated recently?

Rgs
Sudeep

Like is Rotterdam really in tier 4 and Kelley in Tier 3?
What about German MBAs, do they make it in any of the tiers?
No St Gallen either in any of the tiers?

Personally been dinged at ISB, Kenan-Flagler, Ross - all after interviews. Now looking in the lower tier :)

Hi,
I'm from India.
I have 3.5 years work ex in Analytics. My GMAT score is 690.
Is it viable for me to apply to Tier-1 colleges?

Thanks,
Ashwin

Have you considered reading the post at the start of this thread?

Hi Duncan,

I'm a recent graduate from the University at Buffalo (December '13) with a Business Administration degree with concentrations in HR & International Business. I'm looking to go to an MBA to advance my career in HR. I've worked as an Assistant and am now focusing on Talent Acquisition, but want an MBA to increase my earnings and achieve a more managerial role. Ideal goal would be to lead an HR department down the line.

I know MBA isn't the typical path for HR people, but I am interested in it as I think it's important to understand the business and its language as an HR partner, especially at higher levels.

Do you think I'll have an easier or more difficult time getting into school because of my desired career path in HR? I'm a white, American male with less than one year's experience out of school and I have yet to take the GMAT. Just trying to plan ahead and get a feel for it so I can plan the next few years accordingly (whether I should switch jobs, when to apply for school, etc) Thank you! This is a great help to me.

Best,

Dan

Wanting to get into HR don't be a limitation, but the question is not why would you want an MBA but why would an employer want an MBA for an HR role where they would be overskilled? Take a look at How to use LinkedIn to find the best school www.find-mba.com/board/33571 and perhaps look at HR consulting teams in firms like Deloitte and Oliver Wyman. If you need a more detailed response, read my profile page.

Would an employer find me overskilled with an MBA though? The last thing I'd need is to position myself in such a way where I become too overqualified to find a position.

My opinion is an employer would want an HR person to have an MBA so they have a stronger understanding of the business end of the organization, which gives them a stronger knowledge base across all areas. Being able to 'speak the language' of other functions in the organization is important, and it's one of the things I've seen a lot of HR people lack, since many "fall into" the profession. I also think it'll increase the likelihood of being considered for a managerial / director role down the line, which is where I see myself.

Will take a look, thanks for the advice, Duncan.

- Dan

If most HR people don;t have an MBA then perhaps employers do not think the premium required to pay an MBA is justified when hiring an HR role. I'd look at HR programmes well integrated into business schools, like: http://www.krannert.purdue.edu/masters/programs/mshrm/home.asp

[Edited by Duncan on Feb 18, 2017]

Thanks Duncan,

One last question - do you think then it's important to aim for an MBA in a geographic location where you'd like to work / live, for the purposes of building a network in that area? Or at the higher tiers it doesn't really matter as much? Just curious from your experience.

I had trouble finding a job as a bachelors of business in NYC after attending school in Buffalo, so I don't know if the same occurs at the master's level.

Thanks,

Dan

Yes, study where you want to work.