International students and working in the UK


Duncan
Many posts on this site mistakenly assert that the UK work visa system means that MBA candidates from outside Europe should rule British business schools off their list and, instead, focus only on mainland Europe. In fact, the top British business schools continue to be some of the world's best at placing international students. Nine of the 20 best schools for international mobility are from the UK: Best schools for international students' placement http://www.find-mba.com/board/41143

The UK offer several routes into work. Work is possible during your studies, and UEL has a good summary here: http://www.uel.ac.uk/isa/working-in-the-uk/

When it comes to working after studies, the UK council for international student affairs has a good summary here:- http://www.ukcisa.org.uk/International-Students/The-next-stage/Working-after-your-studies/ Cambridge summarises the routes in an easy-to-read table: http://www.internationalstudents.cam.ac.uk/visas-after-studying

A key time limit is that students can stay for only four months after their studies, as outlined here: http://www.workpermit.com/uk/uk-immigration-tier-system/tier-4-foreign-students.htm This is, in comparison with the prior work permit system, unclear, unfair and unjust (http://www.theguardian.com/education/2015/apr/23/are-international-students-getting-a-raw-deal) but many students are still able to find work. Of course MBA students, with their higher salaries and greater value, are very likely to find work. Indeed, the FT rankings show that very many students are able to find work within three months. It's certainly an advantage for longer programmes like LBS and Alliance MBS that students have more time to find work.

For more information, the LSE has published the slides of its two workshops on the question at http://www.lse.ac.uk/intranet/students/ISIS/currentStudents/Workingafteryourstudies.aspx and that page includes more details on the pathways.

Indeed, these different routes are more cumbersome than a guaranteed right to remain however the added advantage of English as a home language and the long presence of non-Europeans (especially from south Asia, Turkey and Nigeria) means that the UK remains well above the average in terms of the numbers of non-Europeans who find work here.

PS Find MBA has a great article on this topic at http://find-mba.com/articles/uk-visa-issues-staying-in-the-country-after-an-mba

[Edited by Duncan on Nov 27, 2015]

Many posts on this site mistakenly assert that the UK work visa system means that MBA candidates from outside Europe should rule British business schools off their list and, instead, focus only on mainland Europe. In fact, the top British business schools continue to be some of the world's best at placing international students. Nine of the 20 best schools for international mobility are from the UK: Best schools for international students' placement http://www.find-mba.com/board/41143

The UK offer several routes into work. Work is possible during your studies, and UEL has a good summary here: http://www.uel.ac.uk/isa/working-in-the-uk/

When it comes to working after studies, the UK council for international student affairs has a good summary here:- http://www.ukcisa.org.uk/International-Students/The-next-stage/Working-after-your-studies/ Cambridge summarises the routes in an easy-to-read table: http://www.internationalstudents.cam.ac.uk/visas-after-studying

A key time limit is that students can stay for only four months after their studies, as outlined here: http://www.workpermit.com/uk/uk-immigration-tier-system/tier-4-foreign-students.htm This is, in comparison with the prior work permit system, unclear, unfair and unjust (http://www.theguardian.com/education/2015/apr/23/are-international-students-getting-a-raw-deal) but many students are still able to find work. Of course MBA students, with their higher salaries and greater value, are very likely to find work. Indeed, the FT rankings show that very many students are able to find work within three months. It's certainly an advantage for longer programmes like LBS and Alliance MBS that students have more time to find work.

For more information, the LSE has published the slides of its two workshops on the question at http://www.lse.ac.uk/intranet/students/ISIS/currentStudents/Workingafteryourstudies.aspx and that page includes more details on the pathways.

Indeed, these different routes are more cumbersome than a guaranteed right to remain however the added advantage of English as a home language and the long presence of non-Europeans (especially from south Asia, Turkey and Nigeria) means that the UK remains well above the average in terms of the numbers of non-Europeans who find work here.

PS Find MBA has a great article on this topic at http://find-mba.com/articles/uk-visa-issues-staying-in-the-country-after-an-mba
quote
mba hipste...
Agreed completely. I'd say that for the majority of applicants who use this board and want to make an international shift, the UK is probably the better choice than mainland Europe, simply because of the language.
Agreed completely. I'd say that for the majority of applicants who use this board and want to make an international shift, the UK is probably the better choice than mainland Europe, simply because of the language.
quote
In case anybody is interested I have been doing some research on this and these are the top UK schools in the FT ranking which are ranked the highest for international mobility:

LBS
Oxford
Cranfield
Cambridge
Manchester
Strathclyde
Imperial
Birmingham
Warwick
Lancaster
In case anybody is interested I have been doing some research on this and these are the top UK schools in the FT ranking which are ranked the highest for international mobility:

LBS
Oxford
Cranfield
Cambridge
Manchester
Strathclyde
Imperial
Birmingham
Warwick
Lancaster
quote
What I think makes it difficult for international students is that the employers have to pass the labor assessment test. They have to assure that the required skills can not be filled by the UK citizen and hence the need to hire the Non UK person. Is that understanding correct? If yes the we can imagine how difficult it would be as almost one - two months would pass in this process and all students get is four months.
What I think makes it difficult for international students is that the employers have to pass the labor assessment test. They have to assure that the required skills can not be filled by the UK citizen and hence the need to hire the Non UK person. Is that understanding correct? If yes the we can imagine how difficult it would be as almost one - two months would pass in this process and all students get is four months.
quote
Duncan
This test is not a major obstacle. The obstacle is simply finding employers that are diligent in keeping records of having advertised the role. Of course no one smart would delay the job-hunt until the end of the degree. You need to start early, as the local students do, and look for MBAs with projects, internships and strong careers teams. The top UK schools obviously have that: LBS, Cambridge and Oxford and so do Warwick and Cranfield. But even school a bit lower down, like Lancaster, have excellent outcomes. They are all in the top 30 schools worldwide for international mobility.

So, indeed, of course, it is hard to move continents with any MBA but the outcomes from the top UK schools are excellent.

[Edited by Duncan on Feb 05, 2016]

This test is not a major obstacle. The obstacle is simply finding employers that are diligent in keeping records of having advertised the role. Of course no one smart would delay the job-hunt until the end of the degree. You need to start early, as the local students do, and look for MBAs with projects, internships and strong careers teams. The top UK schools obviously have that: LBS, Cambridge and Oxford and so do Warwick and Cranfield. But even school a bit lower down, like Lancaster, have excellent outcomes. They are all in the top 30 schools worldwide for international mobility.

So, indeed, of course, it is hard to move continents with any MBA but the outcomes from the top UK schools are excellent.
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yipkc
Hi Duncan,

just want to clarify. Am I allowed to study an MBA on spouse visa? If it's fine, I supposed I will not face your stated restriction unlike the rest of the international students on tier 4 visa, won't I? Thanks. :)
Hi Duncan,

just want to clarify. Am I allowed to study an MBA on spouse visa? If it's fine, I supposed I will not face your stated restriction unlike the rest of the international students on tier 4 visa, won't I? Thanks. :)
quote
Duncan
You should get advice from a visa specialist, but I think you are correct.
You should get advice from a visa specialist, but I think you are correct.
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yipkc
Thanks Duncan. :)
Thanks Duncan. :)
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TammyH
Apparently the local skills assessment requirement doesn't apply when hiring in international candidate with an MBA from a UK university. Accordingly, employers don't need to show that they have advertised the job in the local market. Unfortunately it seems that some companies are not aware of this exemption and so may be reluctant to consider sponsoring an international candidate for a visa. May be worthwhile mentioning this upfront when applying for jobs post MBA.
Apparently the local skills assessment requirement doesn't apply when hiring in international candidate with an MBA from a UK university. Accordingly, employers don't need to show that they have advertised the job in the local market. Unfortunately it seems that some companies are not aware of this exemption and so may be reluctant to consider sponsoring an international candidate for a visa. May be worthwhile mentioning this upfront when applying for jobs post MBA.
quote
laurie
Interesting, I hadn't heard about that exception. Could you post a link to the relevant info?

Of course, there are also other roadblocks for sponsoring an international MBA - not the least of which is more bureaucracy and fees than just hiring somebody who has an EEA passport...
Interesting, I hadn't heard about that exception. Could you post a link to the relevant info?

Of course, there are also other roadblocks for sponsoring an international MBA - not the least of which is more bureaucracy and fees than just hiring somebody who has an EEA passport...
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HuanLi00
Question: I've heard that only specific firms are allowed to sponsor MBA students for a visa. Is this true?
Question: I've heard that only specific firms are allowed to sponsor MBA students for a visa. Is this true?
quote
Duncan
Well, firms need to register to become a sponsor (https://www.gov.uk/browse/visas-immigration/sponsor-workers-students) and 30,000 firms - covering most of the workforce I would imagine - are registered (see an old version of the list at https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/488372/2015-12-23_Tier_2_5_Register_of_Sponsors.pdf ). I've never heard of an actively trading firm with employees not being allowed to register. I have heard one example of a construction firm hitting a quota (I think they wanted to hire over five people from the same MBA cohort).
Well, firms need to register to become a sponsor (https://www.gov.uk/browse/visas-immigration/sponsor-workers-students) and 30,000 firms - covering most of the workforce I would imagine - are registered (see an old version of the list at https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/488372/2015-12-23_Tier_2_5_Register_of_Sponsors.pdf ). I've never heard of an actively trading firm with employees not being allowed to register. I have heard one example of a construction firm hitting a quota (I think they wanted to hire over five people from the same MBA cohort).
quote
Adamco34
Sorry but I absolutely disagree. My experience of being an MBA graduate is extremely horrible in the UK, prior to my startup of the MBA I had 5 years healthcare experience, however, I had over 15 different interviews with the NHS and did not get any offers, the main reason that I was able to notice was the lack of work permit, even though the NHS is a sponsored recruiter but they did not want to offer any sponsorship despite the fact that they were extremely impressed with my knowledge and experience, however, once they learned about my visa status I was able to see the interviewers faces changing 360 degree to the opposite. I eventually decided to leave the UK and look for an experience elsewhere as the atmosphere there is becoming totally intolerable for international graduates.

Even the universities that pretend to be advocates for the international students don't recruit overseas graduates.

I have made a study on international recruitment in the UK and I found that the universities don't offer any roles to international graduates, around 98% of the job posts from universities that are sponsored to recruit international students stated clearly that international applicants must hold the right to work and live in the UK without any sponsorship.

I found universities to be contradictory in their calls to the government to support the international graduates while these universities do not, on the opposite, the formal regulations offer the university graduates the chance to find employment post their graduation but the recruiters including the universities do not want to sponsor anybody, I wonder why did they obtain the sponsorship license from the first place if they don't want to use them?

My personal advice to any prospective student who is qualified enough and still thinking that the British market is welcomming to talents is to think again and look for another country, I am not spiteful but this is the truth.

[Edited by Adamco34 on Jan 21, 2016]

Sorry but I absolutely disagree. My experience of being an MBA graduate is extremely horrible in the UK, prior to my startup of the MBA I had 5 years healthcare experience, however, I had over 15 different interviews with the NHS and did not get any offers, the main reason that I was able to notice was the lack of work permit, even though the NHS is a sponsored recruiter but they did not want to offer any sponsorship despite the fact that they were extremely impressed with my knowledge and experience, however, once they learned about my visa status I was able to see the interviewers faces changing 360 degree to the opposite. I eventually decided to leave the UK and look for an experience elsewhere as the atmosphere there is becoming totally intolerable for international graduates.

Even the universities that pretend to be advocates for the international students don't recruit overseas graduates.

I have made a study on international recruitment in the UK and I found that the universities don't offer any roles to international graduates, around 98% of the job posts from universities that are sponsored to recruit international students stated clearly that international applicants must hold the right to work and live in the UK without any sponsorship.

I found universities to be contradictory in their calls to the government to support the international graduates while these universities do not, on the opposite, the formal regulations offer the university graduates the chance to find employment post their graduation but the recruiters including the universities do not want to sponsor anybody, I wonder why did they obtain the sponsorship license from the first place if they don't want to use them?

My personal advice to any prospective student who is qualified enough and still thinking that the British market is welcomming to talents is to think again and look for another country, I am not spiteful but this is the truth.
quote
Hi Adamco,

Which University did you graduate from? Is the situation equally worst in Ireland? Secondly do you think stats for placements shown on FT are realistic....
Hi Adamco,

Which University did you graduate from? Is the situation equally worst in Ireland? Secondly do you think stats for placements shown on FT are realistic....
quote
Adamco34
Hi Adamco,

Which University did you graduate from? Is the situation equally worst in Ireland? Secondly do you think stats for placements shown on FT are realistic....


Maybe for undergraduates because some universities do have almost secure work placements for undergraduates, even though I still think the figures are exaggerated. However, my point was about the UK market as a whole it is totally against international graduates. I don't understand how international talents still think they have chances to develop some work experience in the UK amid this hostility.

I graduated from Warwick

[Edited by Adamco34 on Jan 22, 2016]

[quote]Hi Adamco,

Which University did you graduate from? Is the situation equally worst in Ireland? Secondly do you think stats for placements shown on FT are realistic....[/quote]

Maybe for undergraduates because some universities do have almost secure work placements for undergraduates, even though I still think the figures are exaggerated. However, my point was about the UK market as a whole it is totally against international graduates. I don't understand how international talents still think they have chances to develop some work experience in the UK amid this hostility.

I graduated from Warwick
quote
Hi Adamco,

Which University did you graduate from? Is the situation equally worst in Ireland? Secondly do you think stats for placements shown on FT are realistic....


Maybe for undergraduates because some universities do have almost secure work placements for undergraduates, even though I still think the figures are exaggerated. However, my point was about the UK market as a whole it is totally against international graduates. I don't understand how international talents still think they have chances to develop some work experience in the UK amid this hostility.

I graduated from Warwick


I agree with you...I am a postgraduate student in Strathclyde now...and believe me the situation is completely miserable!!!!
[quote][quote]Hi Adamco,

Which University did you graduate from? Is the situation equally worst in Ireland? Secondly do you think stats for placements shown on FT are realistic....[/quote]

Maybe for undergraduates because some universities do have almost secure work placements for undergraduates, even though I still think the figures are exaggerated. However, my point was about the UK market as a whole it is totally against international graduates. I don't understand how international talents still think they have chances to develop some work experience in the UK amid this hostility.

I graduated from Warwick [/quote]

I agree with you...I am a postgraduate student in Strathclyde now...and believe me the situation is completely miserable!!!!
quote
yipkc
Is it right that I can infer that no matter what school you're from, from Warwick to Aberdeen, as long as you are holding the UK or EU nationality, or a visa that allows you to work, it will be easier to find a job in comparison to someone who does not hold any form of work-permitted visa. At the same time, is the career service from each of the university only useful to someone who, again, is a UK or EU citizen, or someone who holds a work-permitted visa?

[Edited by yipkc on Jan 22, 2016]

Is it right that I can infer that no matter what school you're from, from Warwick to Aberdeen, as long as you are holding the UK or EU nationality, or a visa that allows you to work, it will be easier to find a job in comparison to someone who does not hold any form of work-permitted visa. At the same time, is the career service from each of the university only useful to someone who, again, is a UK or EU citizen, or someone who holds a work-permitted visa?
quote
Duncan
No, the school is more important than the nationality. A non-EU graduate of LBS will earn twice an EU alumnus of Aberdeen, and will be employed faster.

University careers services are very used to helping international students to get permission to work, and major business schools also have their own careers teams with even greater expertise.
No, the school is more important than the nationality. A non-EU graduate of LBS will earn twice an EU alumnus of Aberdeen, and will be employed faster.

University careers services are very used to helping international students to get permission to work, and major business schools also have their own careers teams with even greater expertise.
quote
Adamco34
Yes definitely the nationality is much more important than school or GPA. you can be a graduate with honour degree from Oxford while suffering from the UK recruiters if you don't hold any permanent residence or work permit. In most of the interviews I went to and did not get I found out that the NHS employers just recruited lower skilled people because they were either EU or settled workers.

[Edited by Adamco34 on Jan 22, 2016]

Yes definitely the nationality is much more important than school or GPA. you can be a graduate with honour degree from Oxford while suffering from the UK recruiters if you don't hold any permanent residence or work permit. In most of the interviews I went to and did not get I found out that the NHS employers just recruited lower skilled people because they were either EU or settled workers.

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Duncan
Are you telling me that you have an Oxford MBA and found that most non-EU students in that course who wanted to find work were not able to? I find that very hard to believe. 97% of the students are international, and 89% find employment within 3 months: the seventh-highest of all MBA programmes. So, while there are obstacles, top quality UK schools with high numbers of international students (not only Oxford and LBS but even lower-ranked schools like Bath, Lancaster and Birmingham) get very similar results, That is simply what the facts show.
Are you telling me that you have an Oxford MBA and found that most non-EU students in that course who wanted to find work were not able to? I find that very hard to believe. 97% of the students are international, and 89% find employment within 3 months: the seventh-highest of all MBA programmes. So, while there are obstacles, top quality UK schools with high numbers of international students (not only Oxford and LBS but even lower-ranked schools like Bath, Lancaster and Birmingham) get very similar results, That is simply what the facts show.
quote

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