How many schools is too many?


There was a rough ranking that was created on one of the forums based on how many people applied. That was pretty interesting though, I think Harvard/Stanford ranked lower because fewer people applied there.


Interesting, although I shudder to think about the quality of many programs based on a popularity survey (I'd imagine that University of Phoenix would be ranked high, as would a few of those questionably-fishy schools in the London suburbs. But a Bell Curve of that survey might show some interesting things, assuming the sample size is large and diverse enough.

You're right though, the ideal ranking would be by the jobs obtained by the alumni, but that may take too much time and resources - not to mention that it may be hard to get people to participate in it.


You're right. But more than resources, it would take an external third party with unfettered access to all the school's alumni and data. Too often, the placement and salary data provided to the "major" rankings are incomplete, cherry-picked, or just plain wrong. "The stats are juked," as Mayor Carcetti would say.

But if you think about the resources that the big rankers put into their annual MBA program rankings, if they had access to 100% of each school's data - I'm sure it wouldn't take that much more to plug that data into a spreadsheeit and rank them appropriately.

<blockquote>There was a rough ranking that was created on one of the forums based on how many people applied. That was pretty interesting though, I think Harvard/Stanford ranked lower because fewer people applied there.</blockquote>

Interesting, although I shudder to think about the quality of many programs based on a popularity survey (I'd imagine that University of Phoenix would be ranked high, as would a few of those questionably-fishy schools in the London suburbs. But a Bell Curve of that survey might show some interesting things, assuming the sample size is large and diverse enough.

<blockquote> You're right though, the ideal ranking would be by the jobs obtained by the alumni, but that may take too much time and resources - not to mention that it may be hard to get people to participate in it.</blockquote>

You're right. But more than resources, it would take an external third party with unfettered access to all the school's alumni and data. Too often, the placement and salary data provided to the "major" rankings are incomplete, cherry-picked, or just plain wrong. "The stats are juked," as Mayor Carcetti would say.

But if you think about the resources that the big rankers put into their annual MBA program rankings, if they had access to 100% of each school's data - I'm sure it wouldn't take that much more to plug that data into a spreadsheeit and rank them appropriately.
quote
sally

What if some of the more established ranking organizations: US News, BusinessWeek, Financial Times told the schools: Give us 100 percent of your stats or you're not in the rankings? Think they'd do it?

What if some of the more established ranking organizations: US News, BusinessWeek, Financial Times told the schools: Give us 100 percent of your stats or you're not in the rankings? Think they'd do it?
quote
fishball

Not really. If I'm not wrong, Harvard and Stanford don't participate in the rankings, but would you rate them anything less than the top?

I think it's not only having access to the alumni and the database, but having to have the graduating class each year say whether they were able to get the job that they wanted. I think it's unlikely that you'll be able to get the complete class to give you a response, so while that's the ideal ranking, it's nearly impossible to get it.

Not really. If I'm not wrong, Harvard and Stanford don't participate in the rankings, but would you rate them anything less than the top?

I think it's not only having access to the alumni and the database, but having to have the graduating class each year say whether they were able to get the job that they wanted. I think it's unlikely that you'll be able to get the complete class to give you a response, so while that's the ideal ranking, it's nearly impossible to get it.

quote
sally

true, but they could require the schools to give 100 percent entrance stats such as GMAT score, etc.

They could also require schools to give them access to 100 percent of their alumni database in order to conduct surveys. They, of course, could not expect 100 percent response from alumni, so it would still be a self-selected sample. But i think, in many cases now, not even 100 percent of alumni are given the opportunity to participate in these surveys :P

true, but they could require the schools to give 100 percent entrance stats such as GMAT score, etc.

They could also require schools to give them access to 100 percent of their alumni database in order to conduct surveys. They, of course, could not expect 100 percent response from alumni, so it would still be a self-selected sample. But i think, in many cases now, not even 100 percent of alumni are given the opportunity to participate in these surveys :P
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fishball

They could require the schools to give the information. But I have a feeling that not all schools will participate. You may get the very best schools not participating because there's no added value, and you'll get the worst schools who won't participate because it doesn't matter.

The current batch of lower ranked schools, attract the less than ideal applicant - who will probably have a lower GMAT score and pre-MBA salary, who will get into a lesser company that pays a lower salary - and this would already lower the rank of the school in the new rankings. For the school to move up in the rankings, they would have to attract students of a higher caliber, and to do so, they would have to move up in the rankings and create better job opportunities.

It's a vicious cycle, they'll never be able to do one without the other, unless a miracle happens. I think that's the main reason why the Top 10 have always been the Top 10 or thereabouts. If you would have to rank the schools by a different metric to get anything significant, unfortunately, if you did do that, and Yale was ranked alongside with Harvard, nobody would believe your ranking....

They could require the schools to give the information. But I have a feeling that not all schools will participate. You may get the very best schools not participating because there's no added value, and you'll get the worst schools who won't participate because it doesn't matter.

The current batch of lower ranked schools, attract the less than ideal applicant - who will probably have a lower GMAT score and pre-MBA salary, who will get into a lesser company that pays a lower salary - and this would already lower the rank of the school in the new rankings. For the school to move up in the rankings, they would have to attract students of a higher caliber, and to do so, they would have to move up in the rankings and create better job opportunities.

It's a vicious cycle, they'll never be able to do one without the other, unless a miracle happens. I think that's the main reason why the Top 10 have always been the Top 10 or thereabouts. If you would have to rank the schools by a different metric to get anything significant, unfortunately, if you did do that, and Yale was ranked alongside with Harvard, nobody would believe your ranking....

quote
juliat333

@Fishball,

Thank you for your insights. I noticed at the top of this chain, you grouped UVA's Darden along with Yale. Do you think they are part of the same category?

(The reason I am suddenly so curious is because I just graduated (2011) from UVA's McIntire School of Commerce (the business undergrad), and unfortunately, we did not have that much interaction with Darden so I do not know its rankings that well. I am truly considering going for an MBA, but I still have not taken the GMAT and my undergrad GPA is only 3.149 , I hope that I'll be able to earn a spot on in a good program. )

@Fishball,

Thank you for your insights. I noticed at the top of this chain, you grouped UVA's Darden along with Yale. Do you think they are part of the same category?

(The reason I am suddenly so curious is because I just graduated (2011) from UVA's McIntire School of Commerce (the business undergrad), and unfortunately, we did not have that much interaction with Darden so I do not know its rankings that well. I am truly considering going for an MBA, but I still have not taken the GMAT and my undergrad GPA is only 3.149 [I transferred in and had a really tough time initially :(], I hope that I'll be able to earn a spot on in a good program. )
quote
ezra

I don't know if Fishball has any insights, but I would definitely put Darden close to Yale. Businessweek ranks Darden higher than Yale - 11th vs. 21st in its US rankings - but FT ranks Darden a bit lower (but I think the bulk of the FT's rankings are based on post-MBA salary, IMHO.)

You'll definitely want to prepare for your GMAT as Darden is relatively competitive in that aspect - you should score around 700 to match the average for new intakes there.

Darden's cheaper, so that's a plus.

@Fishball,

Thank you for your insights. I noticed at the top of this chain, you grouped UVA's Darden along with Yale. Do you think they are part of the same category?

(The reason I am suddenly so curious is because I just graduated (2011) from UVA's McIntire School of Commerce (the business undergrad), and unfortunately, we did not have that much interaction with Darden so I do not know its rankings that well. I am truly considering going for an MBA, but I still have not taken the GMAT and my undergrad GPA is only 3.149 , I hope that I'll be able to earn a spot on in a good program. )

I don't know if Fishball has any insights, but I would definitely put Darden close to Yale. Businessweek ranks Darden higher than Yale - 11th vs. 21st in its US rankings - but FT ranks Darden a bit lower (but I think the bulk of the FT's rankings are based on post-MBA salary, IMHO.)

You'll definitely want to prepare for your GMAT as Darden is relatively competitive in that aspect - you should score around 700 to match the average for new intakes there.

Darden's cheaper, so that's a plus.

<blockquote>@Fishball,

Thank you for your insights. I noticed at the top of this chain, you grouped UVA's Darden along with Yale. Do you think they are part of the same category?

(The reason I am suddenly so curious is because I just graduated (2011) from UVA's McIntire School of Commerce (the business undergrad), and unfortunately, we did not have that much interaction with Darden so I do not know its rankings that well. I am truly considering going for an MBA, but I still have not taken the GMAT and my undergrad GPA is only 3.149 [I transferred in and had a really tough time initially :(], I hope that I'll be able to earn a spot on in a good program. )</blockquote>
quote

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