I'm starting my serious research into schools for Fall 2013. I'm an American but I want an MBA with an international focus, and in addition to looking at US schools with exchange possibilities, I'm looking at some European schools mainly in French-speaking countries.

Temple University's Fox School of business was the first one on my radar and it has a dual-degree "International MBA" which awards degrees from Temple and ENPC ParisTech with a semester spent at ENPC, a semester at Temple, and a summer visiting businesses in Asia (China, Japan, and India I believe). However Temple's business school isn't very highly ranked in the US (that I can find... rankings can be tricky), and I can't seem to find much about ENPC and how it fares at least in comparison to French schools. Any info on this school would be appreciated. The one thing that the Temple/ENPC program doesn't incorporate is an internship, which I'd like to have considering I'll be changing careers.

I also recently heard of Vlerick Leuven Gent School of Management. I don't know much about it, except I've heard it's got good business connections, and it's close to Brussels which would somewhat satisfy wanting to spend some time studying in a French speaking country. I like the ideas of having two consulting projects, one for private sector and one for an NGO. They don't give time for internships but it seems like working on these two projects would give equivalent real world experience. I think they also have a several-week long study in China about how business is conducted there,.

I was also looking at EDHEC because they seem to give decent merit based financial aid, but I'm not sure how well that's regarded as far as French business schools go. It seems like it is possible to do an internship through them.

I'm wondering if attending a non top-tier French/Belgian business school would put me at a disadvantage at finding jobs in the US, or if it wouldn't matter as long as the school's got good connections. I want to be in a position to find jobs in both the US and Europe.

The funny thing is almost every European school I've looked at has claimed they have the most diverse student body you will find. They can't all have the most diverse though.

Other school suggestions are welcome. As far as French schools go, I've also looked at ESSEC and will start researching EM Lyon. And also I've researched HEC, INSEAD, and IE (though I don't really have a desire to be in Madrid), but I'm not gonna think about applying to top tier schools until I take the GMAT.

Belgium is a mostly Dutch-speaking country, and the Vlerick MBA campuses there are both in Flanders (the Dutch-speaking region). Speaking French there is a absolute 'faux pas'.

If you want the option to work in the US then I strongly recommend that you take the MBA in the US at a school which is an exchange partner of HEC. That is far and away the best French business school (if we assume that anglophone Insead isn't French in any meaningful way). Exchange students into the HEC MBA win alumni status.

ENPC, EM Lyon and EDHEC are quite strong 'grande ecole' schools, quite on a par with Temple University in a French context. However, a US employer will not really understand them.

Ok well obviously HEC is a better and more well recognized school than ENPC, but let's say I can't get into HEC directly or to schools like Cornell and Georgetown and NYU which have exchange programs.... how would a degree from Temple/ENPC do to get me a job in France and in the US?

Oh and what about ESSEC? There are some US schools w/ exchanges there (can't remember which ones off the top of my head).

ESSEC is also a great school. You're looking at top-tier schools and these famous grande ecoles have something like Ivy League status in Europe. I've visited HEC, ESSEC and ENPC; HEC is, in many ways, the top European school (certainly the FT ranks it that way). ESSEC is a fair way out of the city in a rather dull and bland complex. It felt like a very young school, with very confident students. ENPC's EMBAs are not on the main campus, but are in small facility for continuing education which is quite centrally located. It's a much more personal programme, but there's the disadvantage of not having access to the life of the campus.

It would also look at the Sorbonne-Georgia State MBA.

As for work, I think it really depends on whether you have EU citizenship and fluent French. The grande ecoles open up a powerful French network, but that's not as open to foreign talent as the UK or US.

I looked at GSU/IAE Sorbonne, but I'm not sure I like the program that's offered. You spend 7 weeks at the Sorbonne and get a Master d'Administration des Entreprises, which is something, but it doesn't seem like a long time for an exchange. They do have an internship which I suppose I could do in France.

I think I'd prefer South Carolina to GSU even though I wouldn't get a degree from a French school, but do the internship in France, even though theirs is a 2 year program vs 14 month. South Carolina is on my list of US schools to apply to. Being a state school it's considerably cheaper, but still second tier (or top tier for international apparently).

I do not have an EU citizenship, but my French is good enough to get a job that's not customer service based.

Of course you'd get a GSU MBA as well as the French masters but, yes, seven weeks isn't so long.

USC is a great school. Its fees are, I think, more or less the same as UNC-Chapel Hill (29K in-state and 49K out-of-state), which is good value for Carolinians, but does make the European MBAs looks like great value.

Citizenship is a major legal bar to employment in Europe. With a few exceptions, an employer needs to prove there's no European who can do the job. So that means that outside of finance, where there are deep technical expertise involved, it's pretty hard to find work in industry or consulting without citizenship. I would imagine that the overwhelming majority of non-EU MBAs who look for work in the EU stumble on that obstacle. Most of the French schools are very direct about that, including EM Lyon, whose team made that point really strongly at an information event I attended a few weeks ago.

Thanks, that's good to keep in mind. W/ my technical background, let's just say I've got an idea that it wouldn't be difficult for me to find work, but if I'm transitioning out of that to a less specialized field, I suppose it would be more difficult.

Some state schools in the US have really reasonable tuition, including South Carolina (which I could qualify for in-state tuition according to the recruiter), however GSU is $67k, Maryland (which is highly ranked) is $40k/$47k per year for 2 years (making it on par w/ some private schools) and the recruiters have discouraged their exchange programs. Temple is $57k + another $2-4k for flights, which isn't bad.

Vlerick on the other hand is 31k euros (~$46k), EDHEC is 36k euros (~$54k), but then HEC is 48k (~$80k) and ESSEC is 45k, still making them better tuition rates than their US counterparts.

I also know that the kind of work I could get in France right now would pay me the equivalent of about $20k/year less than what I make in the US for the same thing, but I don't know if that's across the board or not. If it is, that could explain the generally lower tuition fees.

Well, I think the fees are also connected to the course length; the one year programmes are cheaper. HEC is really amazing value at 48K.

Good to know. Well HEC is on my list, but after I take the GMAT I'll see what schools I should realistically apply to. I was also thinking getting into a French Grande Ecole would prove easier as a foreigner if the schools are looking to fill some sort of international quota, but I highly doubt that's the case for HEC.

Other school suggestions are welcome. As far as French schools go, I've also looked at ESSEC and will start researching EM Lyon. And also I've researched HEC, INSEAD, and IE (though I don't really have a desire to be in Madrid), but I'm not gonna think about applying to top tier schools until I take the GMAT.

Naela, what is the industry and job functions you want to get into after MBA?

A degree from a Grande Ecole is almost a must to get a top job in France. And another note is there is the grande ecole master and the professional master the former is seen more as a serious master degree normally done full-time equally valuable to MBA in French ' context while the professional master which in many cases MBA and part-time masters and further study masters are not seen as equally valuable.

But asking for both MBA and Grade Ecole Master is tough and I dont know if any school really offers this option.

In France the general consesus of Business education ranking is like this: HEC Paris > ESSEC > ESCP the top 3 schools of Management education all based in Paris. Following them are ENPC, EDHEC, EMLYON, Grenoble. EDHEC is great for finance, risk-management. EmLyon for
Entrepreneurship and south of France.

In the US, I think you are aiming at tier 2 and 3 schools right?

maubia, I figured any school in Switzerland would be heavily finance focused, and I'm interested in technology and international business. If you think IMD is a fit with that, I'll check it out.

donho199, I want to stay in the software/technology industry but on the business side - start working for a large tech company for a few years, maybe get into technology in emerging markets and sustainability in emerging markets, but I'm not 100% sure. I'm also interested in business strategy.

Why would EDHEC spend time recruiting in the US if they don't think their international graduates could get jobs in France? And ENPC would be considered just as good a school as EDHEC and EM Lyon then? How does IAE fit into it? It's part of the public university system so I'm guessing it's not quite as prestigious? Assuming I was looking at GSU vs Temple, which would help me out more if I decide to pursue employment in France (which, btw I'm not 100% set on, it would just be a nice option)? An MBA from ENPC or a Masters from IAE?

For US schools, I'm aiming for the best value to education ratio (really don't want to exceed $80k, but definitely not over $100k), and ones I think I stand a chance of getting into obviously.

As far as tier, it depends on what rankings you look at because financial times is different from US News which is different from the Economist, etc. etc. I'm not looking at like Harvard/Stanford/Wharton/Kellogg or any of the big names. South Carolina for sure is top tier in International Business (but not overall) and is definitely on my list if I decide to do a 2-year program. That's pretty much the only school I'm basically set on applying to right now.

Thunderbird is also top tier for international business and I'm maybe considering it too. I'd potentially consider the NYU/HEC program if I think I've got what they're looking for to both be accepted and get some sort of financial aid, because it's a solid 2 year program and I think that's up in the almost $100k range.

I'm keeping GSU/IAE Sorbonne in mind as well, I think they're 2nd tier and I previously expressed some concern over the length of time spent to get the masters at IAE. However they do have business visits in China. Obviously the Temple/ENPC program is on my list but I think that's firmly 2nd/3rd tier and my biggest problem w/ it is I don't like how there's no internship. I do like how they spend time doing business visits multiple countries in Asia, because both India and China are going to be bigger players in the Tech industry.

This is also one reason I also was interested in and asked about Vlerick, because they also go to China for a month to study and do business visits.

Other US schools I'm going to check out but haven't researched well yet include UVA, GW Global MBA, and a very big maybe to Dartmouth (which is also in the need financial aid to think about it category, but I think has an exchange w/ HEC).

I quickly answer you.

You are still pretty early in your research and there would be many things that you will come to appreciate if you have more information and feel for the ranking/schools/ MBA etc.

This forum is great for UK MBA market but for US look at GMATclub and beattheGMAT.

Do your homework for a few weeks and come back to us.

Dont feel like I am telling you off but you really need to dig a lot deeper before we can give you concrete advices

Thanks for your honesty. I'm pretty early, but I want to do my research now so I can spend the next year figuring out what I need to do to get into (a) the schools I want and (b) the schools I think will admit me

Just a comment on your question: Why would EDHEC spend time recruiting in the US if they don't think their international graduates could get jobs in France?

Well, EDHEC has numerous reasons:
- Fee income
- Cross-cultural experience for EU students who will have to work with non-Europeans
- Hiring managers in southern France hiring for jobs outside the EU (with Orange, Accenture, Amadeus, Capgemini)
- Students prefer to study for one year directly on the Cote d'Azur, rather than two years on a dull campus, even if that means returning to the US, India, Canada etc.

I think EDHEC is pretty honest about this: they stress that it is a "Global MBA" rather than a conveyor belt into France; none of their alumni case studies are of non-EU people working in France (even though, in the case of Quebecois students it would be easy for them to cherry pick).

Duncan, you hit the nail on the head. Some students from the broader EU do find work in France, but that's usually dependent on strong French skills at minimum. You find similar placement statistics at IE - it's a very diverse school, but many students end up going back to their own countries after graduation rather than staying in Spain.

I think EDHEC is pretty honest about this: they stress that it is a "Global MBA" rather than a conveyor belt into France; none of their alumni case studies are of non-EU people working in France (even though, in the case of Quebecois students it would be easy for them to cherry pick).

Ezra and Duncan, thanks for the info.

The Global Partners MBA program is a dual degree program with 3 partner schools. Robinson College of Business at Georgia State University (GSU) has teamed with IAE - Sorbonne Graduate Business School in Paris, and COPPEAD Graduate School of Business, Federal University of Rio de Janeiro, to offer this international MBA with a true global immersion. To clarify, you do not earn your masters from IAE- Sorbonne in 7 weeks. A student must complete the 55.5 credit hour program in order to earn both degrees. The classes are team taught across the 3 institutions with their respective faculty.

Students rotate their studies in Atlanta (three 8-week rotations), Rio de Janeiro (5 weeks), and Paris (7 weeks). In addition, students participate in 3 business trips ? 3 days in Washington DC; 2 days in Brussels, Belgium; and 2 weeks in China (3 different cities). An international internship for 16 weeks is required as well. It can be anywhere in the world. Since your interest is France, you could do your internship there. I am happy to provide you contact information for students and alumni who have interned and/or are working there now. Please email me at [email protected] and I will send you?re their details. I think it is important to talk with people who have been through it to get their opinions.

The program is $67,000, but this is a pretty comprehensive price. Most international MBAs only provide tuition costs. In addition to tuition and fees, this program includes all books and course materials including I-pad; flights to China (3 cities) and Washington DC, train travel to Brussels from Paris, hotel accommodations and bus transportation to company visits and cultural sites in each of these locations; flights to Rio de Janeiro and transportation to and from school and company visits; flights to Paris; and assistance with visa processing.

In regards to rankings, Business Week just ranked Robinson College as #22 for part-time MBA programs for 2012. The Global Partners is in the Aspen Institute?s Global Top 100 for what we do with social, environmental and ethical responsibility. Since 2001, COPPEAD has been in the Financial Times top 100 eight times. Please visit the website to see additional rankings.

Hope this helps. Please let me know if I can provide any other details.

Thank you for the info on the Global Partners program at GSU. I may contact you when I'm ready to seek more detailed information. And thank you as well for clarifying what the tuition includes.