MBA WHU vs Mannheim vs HHL


ms_kathi
Hi There,

I know that there are some outdated posts speaking about this scenario, so I am hoping to get a fresh take.

I have been accepted into HWR (Berlin) HHL (Leipzig) and am still in the interview process for WHU and Mannheim (with good odds to get into both). I've applied to ESMT but I don't think I'll hear back in time to include them in the decision process since they start later.

I speak English fluently and I'm at intermediate German with hopes of becoming fluent (or close to) by the end of my time in the program. I'm looking for employment opportunities within Real Estate Investment in Europe or US.

I want to know from an employment and network standpoint which of these universities is best for me to attend?

Can anyone give any feedback about how to make this tough decision? Also, should HWR still be considered as an option due to its affordability, or because it lacks a "weighted name" I shouldn't attend?

Thank you!

Kathi

[Edited by ms_kathi on Aug 08, 2018]

Hi There,

I know that there are some outdated posts speaking about this scenario, so I am hoping to get a fresh take.

I have been accepted into HWR (Berlin) HHL (Leipzig) and am still in the interview process for WHU and Mannheim (with good odds to get into both). I've applied to ESMT but I don't think I'll hear back in time to include them in the decision process since they start later.

I speak English fluently and I'm at intermediate German with hopes of becoming fluent (or close to) by the end of my time in the program. I'm looking for employment opportunities within Real Estate Investment in Europe or US.

I want to know from an employment and network standpoint which of these universities is best for me to attend?

Can anyone give any feedback about how to make this tough decision? Also, should HWR still be considered as an option due to its affordability, or because it lacks a "weighted name" I shouldn't attend?

Thank you!

Kathi
quote
Duncan
I can't see any reason to consider HWR.

Where in Germany are the real estate investment firms concentrated? Generally, the money is in the West...
I can't see any reason to consider HWR.

Where in Germany are the real estate investment firms concentrated? Generally, the money is in the West...
quote
laurie
Mannheim seems like a decent fit, WHU as well. I'm not sure that the Berlin schools would have many decent connections with real estate investment firms, but maybe ask them?

Are you also considering Frankfurt School?

Employment opportunities-wise, it's best to keep your options narrow (focus on Germany if you go to a German school.) Outside of a top-10 MBA—or just doing your MBA in the US—I'm not sure that it will be that easy for you to get a job in the US. A top UK school might open your options a bit.
Mannheim seems like a decent fit, WHU as well. I'm not sure that the Berlin schools would have many decent connections with real estate investment firms, but maybe ask them?

Are you also considering Frankfurt School?

Employment opportunities-wise, it's best to keep your options narrow (focus on Germany if you go to a German school.) Outside of a top-10 MBA—or just doing your MBA in the US—I'm not sure that it will be that easy for you to get a job in the US. A top UK school might open your options a bit.
quote
ms_kathi
Thank you Duncan and Laurie for your responses. I have carefully considered both of them. Laurie, I looked at Frankfurt School, but I missed the deadline.

I would like to create an opportunity for as much flexibility as possible regarding employment- in Europe (ideally Germany, Switzerland, England) or USA. I'm becoming more aware that a well-known university name may help carry me to my high aspirations. Due to some unforeseen circumstances, Mannheim is off the table.

My goal for any MBA program is to develop leadership/entrepreneurial, and to network and build relationships with high net worth individuals so as to gain employment with a real estate company.

I have looked at other programs and am looking to consider: IE, IMD, Rotterdam, ESMT. I've been accepted at WHU, but I have heard mixed reactions about the program. Do either of you have any suggestions for which of these programs are best for my ideal situation?

Is WHU a strong program? Is Düsseldorf a strong place to make the connections that I am seeking? I've actually done some research and it appears that Berlin, Frankfurt and Munich are the strongest places within Germany for Real Estate.

Thank you again- I can't tell you how much it helps!

Best,

Kathi

[Edited by ms_kathi on Aug 23, 2018]

Thank you Duncan and Laurie for your responses. I have carefully considered both of them. Laurie, I looked at Frankfurt School, but I missed the deadline.

I would like to create an opportunity for as much flexibility as possible regarding employment- in Europe (ideally Germany, Switzerland, England) or USA. I'm becoming more aware that a well-known university name may help carry me to my high aspirations. Due to some unforeseen circumstances, Mannheim is off the table.

My goal for any MBA program is to develop leadership/entrepreneurial, and to network and build relationships with high net worth individuals so as to gain employment with a real estate company.

I have looked at other programs and am looking to consider: IE, IMD, Rotterdam, ESMT. I've been accepted at WHU, but I have heard mixed reactions about the program. Do either of you have any suggestions for which of these programs are best for my ideal situation?

Is WHU a strong program? Is Düsseldorf a strong place to make the connections that I am seeking? I've actually done some research and it appears that Berlin, Frankfurt and Munich are the strongest places within Germany for Real Estate.

Thank you again- I can't tell you how much it helps!

Best,

Kathi
quote
Duncan
Düsseldorf is a great location, and WHU were wise to move the MBA there. The rich urban region from there to Frankfurt is packed with opportunities, while the rural region outside Berlin has very little. ESMT has a weaker but older cohort (certainly less well networked into high nett worth layers of society, since there will be almost no Germans there) and a weaker network, even if it's a better campus. Berlin can be a slightly easier place to find work only because salaries are lower for comparable roles, meaning ESMT people get into employers faster but earn less despite being older. Berlin is a party and politics city. Düsseldorf means business.

PS Personally I would pick WHU over ESMT for better outcomes even though I would enjoy ESMT more.

[Edited by Duncan on Aug 23, 2018]

Düsseldorf is a great location, and WHU were wise to move the MBA there. The rich urban region from there to Frankfurt is packed with opportunities, while the rural region outside Berlin has very little. ESMT has a weaker but older cohort (certainly less well networked into high nett worth layers of society, since there will be almost no Germans there) and a weaker network, even if it's a better campus. Berlin can be a slightly easier place to find work only because salaries are lower for comparable roles, meaning ESMT people get into employers faster but earn less despite being older. Berlin is a party and politics city. Düsseldorf means business.

PS Personally I would pick WHU over ESMT for better outcomes even though I would enjoy ESMT more.
quote
Duncan
For cross border flexibility you would need a stronger school like IESE, LBS or IMD.
For cross border flexibility you would need a stronger school like IESE, LBS or IMD.
quote
Duncan
RSM, which you also mention, could be a great option. Since you speak intermediate German but not Dutch, however, I would focus on West German schools. Arrive early and focus on improving your German... And that is another argument against Berlin where you can live in a migrant, Anglophone bubble.

[Edited by Duncan on Aug 23, 2018]

RSM, which you also mention, could be a great option. Since you speak intermediate German but not Dutch, however, I would focus on West German schools. Arrive early and focus on improving your German... And that is another argument against Berlin where you can live in a migrant, Anglophone bubble.
quote
ms_kathi
Thanks Duncan. I agree with your concerns into the ESMT network. I also think it's a very new school and while it may have large companies backing it; I question how many of those companies are actively involved. I've read some concerns, albeit that being older. I also have previously lived in Berlin (when you had to speak German 11 years ago), but after visiting in July I can see how much it has changed to only English and little German.

I keep reading that the network is everything, and I can't get a good grasp on how strong the network is at WHU. I've spoken with two students and they had very different reactions. One said the alumni network wasn't helpful and the other said he loved it.

Do you think the ranking of the programs matter as much? I would be happy to work for a German company in Germany or even abroad, but seeing as how real estate is cyclical I want to ensure that I can get gainful employment after graduating.

Thanks again for your synopsis. :)
Thanks Duncan. I agree with your concerns into the ESMT network. I also think it's a very new school and while it may have large companies backing it; I question how many of those companies are actively involved. I've read some concerns, albeit that being older. I also have previously lived in Berlin (when you had to speak German 11 years ago), but after visiting in July I can see how much it has changed to only English and little German.

I keep reading that the network is everything, and I can't get a good grasp on how strong the network is at WHU. I've spoken with two students and they had very different reactions. One said the alumni network wasn't helpful and the other said he loved it.

Do you think the ranking of the programs matter as much? I would be happy to work for a German company in Germany or even abroad, but seeing as how real estate is cyclical I want to ensure that I can get gainful employment after graduating.

Thanks again for your synopsis. :)

quote
Duncan
Networks work if you know how to network. WHU has the biggest and, as a private school, it has more glue than Mannheim. HHL is also a good network, but more for start ups.

Rankings matter less than the data in the rankings. Well ranked schools have easier lives. But the ranking data is a great guide to performance and outcomes.
Networks work if you know how to network. WHU has the biggest and, as a private school, it has more glue than Mannheim. HHL is also a good network, but more for start ups.

Rankings matter less than the data in the rankings. Well ranked schools have easier lives. But the ranking data is a great guide to performance and outcomes.
quote
ms_kathi
Duncan, I again wanted to thank you for your help and support in me making this decision. Your reference point about the network is what pushed me over the edge. I can say I am here at WHU and very much feel like I made the right decision. There are some things I would improve in the program (but that is with any program), but the network of the people I have found to be impressive.

I also agree with your point about Rotterdam, I was very close to holding off and applying to them, but my German has already improved in less than a month. I think I'll be fluent in no time. :) Really, truly- thank you again.
Duncan, I again wanted to thank you for your help and support in me making this decision. Your reference point about the network is what pushed me over the edge. I can say I am here at WHU and very much feel like I made the right decision. There are some things I would improve in the program (but that is with any program), but the network of the people I have found to be impressive.

I also agree with your point about Rotterdam, I was very close to holding off and applying to them, but my German has already improved in less than a month. I think I'll be fluent in no time. :) Really, truly- thank you again.
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Duncan
That is wonderful news. I didn't mention it, but I also think that one asset of WHU is being able to point to its dual degree partner: Northwestern. Compare that to UNC, which RSM shares the OneMBA with (and EMBAs don't even become UNC alumni) or EADA with HHL. It's a big asset to able to explain to Americans that WHU is the sister of Kellogg.
That is wonderful news. I didn't mention it, but I also think that one asset of WHU is being able to point to its dual degree partner: Northwestern. Compare that to UNC, which RSM shares the OneMBA with (and EMBAs don't even become UNC alumni) or EADA with HHL. It's a big asset to able to explain to Americans that WHU is the sister of Kellogg.
quote
ms_kathi
Yes, that also stood out to me. I put that into my 'network' category as well. I then determined if it can be a sister uni to Kellogg and CEIBS- then it must be of that same caliber to deserve the partnership.

I then focused less on what the 'rankings' say due to the fact it's so based on how much money you make after graduating. And since so many after leaving WHU start their own company- their ranking is less. You really helped me solve the puzzle to the rankings and my school situation. Thank you again!
Yes, that also stood out to me. I put that into my 'network' category as well. I then determined if it can be a sister uni to Kellogg and CEIBS- then it must be of that same caliber to deserve the partnership.

I then focused less on what the 'rankings' say due to the fact it's so based on how much money you make after graduating. And since so many after leaving WHU start their own company- their ranking is less. You really helped me solve the puzzle to the rankings and my school situation. Thank you again!
quote
Larry
I don't know if alumni starting their own firms really has that much overall impact on the ranking (look at Stanford!) The FT does take into account salary, it's true, but three years after graduation. You would think that, even if grads were launching startups at a higher rate, after three years their salaries would begin to equalize (unless they're launching a bunch of failed startups, which could be an issue).
I don't know if alumni starting their own firms really has that much overall impact on the ranking (look at Stanford!) The FT does take into account salary, it's true, but three years after graduation. You would think that, even if grads were launching startups at a higher rate, after three years their salaries would begin to equalize (unless they're launching a bunch of failed startups, which could be an issue).
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