my odds in these schools


ua87

Hey Guys,

I graduated from Upenn Engineering with 3.60 gpa. I got 710 in gmat and will retake it and probably score around 740-50.
I am from Turkey and I have been working in an investment bank in Turkey for 2 years. I plan to apply to MBA programs next September. What are my odds in these schools?
(I will have 2 recommendations from the partners of my company and one from a finance professor from Wharton)

-Wharton
Harvard
MIT
Stanford
Columbia
Yale
Northwestern
Chicago
Michigan Ann Arbor

Thanks for your helps and recommendations

Hey Guys,

I graduated from Upenn Engineering with 3.60 gpa. I got 710 in gmat and will retake it and probably score around 740-50.
I am from Turkey and I have been working in an investment bank in Turkey for 2 years. I plan to apply to MBA programs next September. What are my odds in these schools?
(I will have 2 recommendations from the partners of my company and one from a finance professor from Wharton)

-Wharton
Harvard
MIT
Stanford
Columbia
Yale
Northwestern
Chicago
Michigan Ann Arbor

Thanks for your helps and recommendations
quote
ralph

Those are some good schools you're applying to. I think that you are competitive in the top schools.

Maybe others can weigh in on this too, but I'm not sure that an improvement from 710 to 750 on the GMAT will give you much of an edge. The common train of thought is that 700 is a great score, and anything above doesn't really improve your profile in the eyes of adcomms. In fact, multiple re-takes for somebody who initially scored high might actually detract from the application.

Those are some good schools you're applying to. I think that you are competitive in the top schools.

Maybe others can weigh in on this too, but I'm not sure that an improvement from 710 to 750 on the GMAT will give you much of an edge. The common train of thought is that 700 is a great score, and anything above doesn't really improve your profile in the eyes of adcomms. In fact, multiple re-takes for somebody who initially scored high might actually detract from the application.

quote
borism

I agree with Ralph - there is no real difference between 710 and 740 - they are both fantastic! i think you stand a good chance in the schools you mentioned - the only thing lacking a bit is your work experience.... but if you have good recommendations, and do good on your essays you will probably find a place in one of these schools.

I agree with Ralph - there is no real difference between 710 and 740 - they are both fantastic! i think you stand a good chance in the schools you mentioned - the only thing lacking a bit is your work experience.... but if you have good recommendations, and do good on your essays you will probably find a place in one of these schools.
quote
sally

Do not retake the GMAT!! 710 is more than enough to get into a top school. If you've been on beatthegmat.com there are several horror stories of people with scores above 700 retaking the test and then dropping 50 or more points. One guy went from a 700 to a 620. Seriously, don't do it!!!! 710 shows perfectly well that you are capable of succeeding in a top MBA program.

Read this article about the "Myth of the 800 GMAT": http://www.beatthegmat.com/the-myth-of-the-800-gmat-t20149.html

Do not retake the GMAT!! 710 is more than enough to get into a top school. If you've been on beatthegmat.com there are several horror stories of people with scores above 700 retaking the test and then dropping 50 or more points. One guy went from a 700 to a 620. Seriously, don't do it!!!! 710 shows perfectly well that you are capable of succeeding in a top MBA program.

Read this article about the "Myth of the 800 GMAT": http://www.beatthegmat.com/the-myth-of-the-800-gmat-t20149.html
quote
sally

PS, your odds are great based on the numbers alone. Great GMAT score, great undergraduate degree, great undergrad GPA, good enough work experience.

As long as your essays are full of impressive accomplishments you've made during your 2 years of work, I say you should get into most of those schools..

Don't retake the GMAT! :)

Update: One more thing... if you're interestested in working in the US financial industry, it could really make sense to study in New York. Columbia or NYU Stern would be great choices... Stern is an excellent program, and because it's a few notches down on the rankings might have slightly less crazy applicant volumes.

PS, your odds are great based on the numbers alone. Great GMAT score, great undergraduate degree, great undergrad GPA, good enough work experience.

As long as your essays are full of impressive accomplishments you've made during your 2 years of work, I say you should get into most of those schools..

Don't retake the GMAT! :)

Update: One more thing... if you're interestested in working in the US financial industry, it could really make sense to study in New York. Columbia or NYU Stern would be great choices... Stern is an excellent program, and because it's a few notches down on the rankings might have slightly less crazy applicant volumes.
quote
ua87

thank you all for your comments.
i know that for most of these schools the average work experience is around 5 years. by the time, i make my applications i will have only around 2.5 years of experience and 3 summer internship. Should I wait a year or two to increase my chances. and if I get rejected the first time I apply would that affect my future applications to the same school.

Lastly, my cousin had her MBA in Harvard a few years ago. Would that help my application to HBS?

Thanks all.

thank you all for your comments.
i know that for most of these schools the average work experience is around 5 years. by the time, i make my applications i will have only around 2.5 years of experience and 3 summer internship. Should I wait a year or two to increase my chances. and if I get rejected the first time I apply would that affect my future applications to the same school.

Lastly, my cousin had her MBA in Harvard a few years ago. Would that help my application to HBS?

Thanks all.
quote
ralph

I say give it a shot, apply now - because while 5 years might be average, the minimums are usually 2 years, and with your internships and good GMAT score, make your profile pretty solid. And, if for some reason you do not get in, I don't think a failed application will hurt your chances at all.

And, somebody should correct me if I'm wrong, but I doubt your cousin's MBA will help you, unless of course she's in with the adcomm there and can put in a good word for you... A suggestion I would have is to try and put that in your essay, something along the lines of, "my cousin's experience at HBS motivated me to apply..." It can't hurt.


thank you all for your comments.
i know that for most of these schools the average work experience is around 5 years. by the time, i make my applications i will have only around 2.5 years of experience and 3 summer internship. Should I wait a year or two to increase my chances. and if I get rejected the first time I apply would that affect my future applications to the same school.

Lastly, my cousin had her MBA in Harvard a few years ago. Would that help my application to HBS?

Thanks all.

I say give it a shot, apply now - because while 5 years might be average, the minimums are usually 2 years, and with your internships and good GMAT score, make your profile pretty solid. And, if for some reason you do not get in, I don't think a failed application will hurt your chances at all.

And, somebody should correct me if I'm wrong, but I doubt your cousin's MBA will help you, unless of course she's in with the adcomm there and can put in a good word for you... A suggestion I would have is to try and put that in your essay, something along the lines of, "my cousin's experience at HBS motivated me to apply..." It can't hurt.


<blockquote>thank you all for your comments.
i know that for most of these schools the average work experience is around 5 years. by the time, i make my applications i will have only around 2.5 years of experience and 3 summer internship. Should I wait a year or two to increase my chances. and if I get rejected the first time I apply would that affect my future applications to the same school.

Lastly, my cousin had her MBA in Harvard a few years ago. Would that help my application to HBS?

Thanks all. </blockquote>
quote
sally

I don't think applying to the same school more than once hurts you at all. In fact, it shows persistence and how committed you are to the school. Many schools will waive the application fee the second time around. So, it definitely wouldn't hurt to give it a shot this year.

If you do re-apply anywhere, though, make sure to make substantial improvements to your application. Often they do not want you to submit an entirely new application. So you'll want to submit an extra essay updating them on your accomplishments since then, as well as an updated CV. Don't count on one year of extra work experience being the difference-maker. Think about what you can do to really make yourselfl stand out.

I don't think applying to the same school more than once hurts you at all. In fact, it shows persistence and how committed you are to the school. Many schools will waive the application fee the second time around. So, it definitely wouldn't hurt to give it a shot this year.

If you do re-apply anywhere, though, make sure to make substantial improvements to your application. Often they do not want you to submit an entirely new application. So you'll want to submit an extra essay updating them on your accomplishments since then, as well as an updated CV. Don't count on one year of extra work experience being the difference-maker. Think about what you can do to really make yourselfl stand out.
quote

Your odds for any school you want to go to are good. However, a higher GMAT and more work experience would make you a shoe-in. I would say to wait another year and take the GMAT one more time to see how you do. A 710 is a fabulous score putting you in the top 8% or so, but that doesn't guarantee admissions. Being in the top 4 or 5% practically does.

The only down side to your application: you're international. International students are having a tough time getting into US schools because VISAs are harder to come by and you'll have to have financial sponsorship which can be difficult right now. That being said, you have great odds all around. Congrats!

Your odds for any school you want to go to are good. However, a higher GMAT and more work experience would make you a shoe-in. I would say to wait another year and take the GMAT one more time to see how you do. A 710 is a fabulous score putting you in the top 8% or so, but that doesn't guarantee admissions. Being in the top 4 or 5% practically does.

The only down side to your application: you're international. International students are having a tough time getting into US schools because VISAs are harder to come by and you'll have to have financial sponsorship which can be difficult right now. That being said, you have great odds all around. Congrats!
quote
sally

Being in the top four or five percent does not "practically guarantee admissions." If the rest of your application is good, you'll get in with a 710 or a 790, it doesn't matter! And if your essays and work experience are lame, you won't get in even with an 800.

Retaking is not worth the risk of getting a lower score on the second try, in my opinion, since schools look at all of your scores..

If you're going to retake you better make sure you get 800s on all of your practice tests, and know that GMAT like the back of your hand!

Anyone with a score around 700 or above is much better off spending their time on the rest of their application -- ask anyone who works in admissions and they will confirm this!

Also: Being from Turkey isn't a bad thing. You aren't going to be up against a ton of other Turkish applicants, and that's good for you! Make sure to point out that you're from Turkey in your application... you wouldn't want them to assume that you're from India since there is so much competition from that country. And, sadly, a lot of Americans can't tell the difference between a Turkish name and a Hindu name :P

Being in the top four or five percent does not "practically guarantee admissions." If the rest of your application is good, you'll get in with a 710 or a 790, it doesn't matter! And if your essays and work experience are lame, you won't get in even with an 800.

Retaking is not worth the risk of getting a lower score on the second try, in my opinion, since schools look at all of your scores..

If you're going to retake you better make sure you get 800s on all of your practice tests, and know that GMAT like the back of your hand!

Anyone with a score around 700 or above is much better off spending their time on the rest of their application -- ask anyone who works in admissions and they will confirm this!

Also: Being from Turkey isn't a bad thing. You aren't going to be up against a ton of other Turkish applicants, and that's good for you! Make sure to point out that you're from Turkey in your application... you wouldn't want them to assume that you're from India since there is so much competition from that country. And, sadly, a lot of Americans can't tell the difference between a Turkish name and a Hindu name :P
quote

I agree that it wouldn't be worth spending the time retaking the test with only a few months until applications are due. However, with a year to go and being pretty sure he can increase his score by 50 points, it is worth retaking the test. In fact, applications aren't even available yet so there is nothing to spend his time on. The GMAT is one of the "big three" factors (along with GPA and work experience), and it is one of the few things on your application you have the ability to change. No reason not to take it again IF 1) you have the time and 2) you are sure you won't score below your initial score.

I agree that it wouldn't be worth spending the time retaking the test with only a few months until applications are due. However, with a year to go and being pretty sure he can increase his score by 50 points, it is worth retaking the test. In fact, applications aren't even available yet so there is nothing to spend his time on. The GMAT is one of the "big three" factors (along with GPA and work experience), and it is one of the few things on your application you have the ability to change. No reason not to take it again IF 1) you have the time and 2) you are sure you won't score below your initial score.
quote
ua87

hi again,,

I will i think retake the gmat in 3 months time.
Assuming that I took the previous test with only 2-3 practice test, i guess I will be able to improve my score.

I had 88% (49/51) on the math section and I am pretty sure that I can get 51/51 and this will increase my score to probably 730.

hi again,,

I will i think retake the gmat in 3 months time.
Assuming that I took the previous test with only 2-3 practice test, i guess I will be able to improve my score.

I had 88% (49/51) on the math section and I am pretty sure that I can get 51/51 and this will increase my score to probably 730.
quote
sally

No one can be "pretty sure" of increasing his score by 50 points. Seriously, there is practically a 50 point margin of error on the GMAT. Which means there is a very good chance he could take it again and get a 660.

Did you guys read this article??http://www.beatthegmat.com/the-myth-of-the-800-gmat-t20149.html
I think it lays out quite convincingly why no one should retake the gmat if they've scored over 700.

I have read SEVERAL stories on forums of people who scored high on the first try, then took it again and scored WORSE on the second or third attempts. I think you should be grateful for your excellent score and move on.... but to each his own. Let us know how it goes.

Here are some horror stories of retakes: http://www.beatthegmat.com/700-620-retake-t48525.html

No one can be "pretty sure" of increasing his score by 50 points. Seriously, there is practically a 50 point margin of error on the GMAT. Which means there is a very good chance he could take it again and get a 660.

Did you guys read this article??http://www.beatthegmat.com/the-myth-of-the-800-gmat-t20149.html
I think it lays out quite convincingly why no one should retake the gmat if they've scored over 700.

I have read SEVERAL stories on forums of people who scored high on the first try, then took it again and scored WORSE on the second or third attempts. I think you should be grateful for your excellent score and move on.... but to each his own. Let us know how it goes.

Here are some horror stories of retakes: http://www.beatthegmat.com/700-620-retake-t48525.html
quote

At the end of the day, only you know you're score vs. your abilities. If you're a math genius, had a bad morning, felt poorly about the results and didn't perform you're best, study and take it again.

At the end of the day, only you know you're score vs. your abilities. If you're a math genius, had a bad morning, felt poorly about the results and didn't perform you're best, study and take it again.
quote
sally

why?

why?
quote

1) You're a math genius
2) had a bad morning
3) felt poorly about the results
4) didn't perform you're best

Most of us want scores that match our abilities.

1) You're a math genius
2) had a bad morning
3) felt poorly about the results
4) didn't perform you're best

Most of us want scores that match our abilities.
quote
sally

No one should feel poorly about a 710. Anyone who thinks a score like that doesn't "match their abilities" must be awfully self-assured. I think retaking the test, even if you score the same or better the second time, would have the adcom questioning your judgment...

No one should feel poorly about a 710. Anyone who thinks a score like that doesn't "match their abilities" must be awfully self-assured. I think retaking the test, even if you score the same or better the second time, would have the adcom questioning your judgment...
quote
mimis

Couldn't agree more with you sally,

Think as if you were one of the admissions....if i saw anyone with 2 gmat scores.let's say 710 and 730...i would think one of the following;

1. he didn't grasp what a 700+ really means
2. he is trying to hide something,a flaw of some kind about the rest of the application by trying to throw dust in our eyes with a really great score
3. he believes too much in his abilities , kind of egomaniac or sth (ok i'm exaggerating here,but you get the picture)

leave the gmat as it is. focus on other things...

be sure that just by seeing your 700 the will definetely take a closer look at your application!!
best of luck!

Couldn't agree more with you sally,

Think as if you were one of the admissions....if i saw anyone with 2 gmat scores.let's say 710 and 730...i would think one of the following;

1. he didn't grasp what a 700+ really means
2. he is trying to hide something,a flaw of some kind about the rest of the application by trying to throw dust in our eyes with a really great score
3. he believes too much in his abilities , kind of egomaniac or sth (ok i'm exaggerating here,but you get the picture)

leave the gmat as it is. focus on other things...

be sure that just by seeing your 700 the will definetely take a closer look at your application!!
best of luck!
quote
ua87

I retook the gmat anyways and improved it 20 point to get a 730 (96 percentile)

now I am preparing for the essays.
I will apply to Harvard, Stanford, Wharton, COlumbia, NYU and Chicago.

Do you I should add more schools.I am thinking of maybe Yale, MIT and Northwestern..

I will have around 25 months of full time work exp. at matriculation but I think I have seen a lot and will be able to show leadership/management experience in the essays

I retook the gmat anyways and improved it 20 point to get a 730 (96 percentile)

now I am preparing for the essays.
I will apply to Harvard, Stanford, Wharton, COlumbia, NYU and Chicago.

Do you I should add more schools.I am thinking of maybe Yale, MIT and Northwestern..

I will have around 25 months of full time work exp. at matriculation but I think I have seen a lot and will be able to show leadership/management experience in the essays
quote

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