Simon vs Rotman


SteveR
Hello everyone!

I got accepted at both Simon (Rochester) and Rotman (Toronto).
Simon offered a substantial scholarship (80%) while Rotman offered a symbolic entrance award.
As an international applicant from Asia, I have to consider employment opportunities in both countries as well as visa and work authorization policies. Visa-related matters and work authorization are much simpler in Canada, but is Simon a better school for a post MBA career in consulting? Or if Rotman is the better choice, is it good enough to give up the Simon scholarship?

PS: My experience is at small local companies in Japan (not well-known internationally), so I imagine that when looking for internships/jobs, recruiters will give more emphasis to my school's reputation and academic results.

Thank you in advance for your advice.

[Edited by SteveR on May 15, 2018]

Hello everyone!

I got accepted at both Simon (Rochester) and Rotman (Toronto).
Simon offered a substantial scholarship (80%) while Rotman offered a symbolic entrance award.
As an international applicant from Asia, I have to consider employment opportunities in both countries as well as visa and work authorization policies. Visa-related matters and work authorization are much simpler in Canada, but is Simon a better school for a post MBA career in consulting? Or if Rotman is the better choice, is it good enough to give up the Simon scholarship?

PS: My experience is at small local companies in Japan (not well-known internationally), so I imagine that when looking for internships/jobs, recruiters will give more emphasis to my school's reputation and academic results.

Thank you in advance for your advice.
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Ayon
In my opinion, Rotman outweighs Simon in every regard.

1) Reputation: Simon - at it's best - is a Tier II B school in US which has some 300+ B schools. Rotman is definitely a top 3 school in Canada if not the best.

2) Location: Vibrant Toronto vs desolate Rochester

3) Career: Post MBA career from Rotman will be a much simpler journey than from Simon

Rotman is a lot of investment, and Canadian salaries are (in general) lower than US. But your access to those firms paying that big money will be limited in Simon. I cannot in good faith recommend Simon over Rotman to anyone.

P.S - NYU vs Rotman would be a fairer comparison than Simon vs Rotman. I hope you get my point.
P.P.S - I am fairly biased at this point towards Canada. I did my MBA from a College of William & Mary in US which is outside of top 50. I have been through the struggles of getting internship, job, H1B etc. Now I have my Canadian Permanent Residency and moving there mid July. The decline in my revenue due to lower salaries and exchange rate is acceptable to me as I get stability in form of open work permit. Make sure you know what your priorities and decide accordingly.
In my opinion, Rotman outweighs Simon in every regard.

1) Reputation: Simon - at it's best - is a Tier II B school in US which has some 300+ B schools. Rotman is definitely a top 3 school in Canada if not the best.

2) Location: Vibrant Toronto vs desolate Rochester

3) Career: Post MBA career from Rotman will be a much simpler journey than from Simon

Rotman is a lot of investment, and Canadian salaries are (in general) lower than US. But your access to those firms paying that big money will be limited in Simon. I cannot in good faith recommend Simon over Rotman to anyone.

P.S - NYU vs Rotman would be a fairer comparison than Simon vs Rotman. I hope you get my point.
P.P.S - I am fairly biased at this point towards Canada. I did my MBA from a College of William & Mary in US which is outside of top 50. I have been through the struggles of getting internship, job, H1B etc. Now I have my Canadian Permanent Residency and moving there mid July. The decline in my revenue due to lower salaries and exchange rate is acceptable to me as I get stability in form of open work permit. Make sure you know what your priorities and decide accordingly.
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SteveR
Thank you for input, Ayon! It really is helpful.
In your opinion, the scholarship is not enough to justify the riskier post MBA career journey, right?

Does anyone else agree or disagree or have anything else to add? Any input is helpful!

And Ayon, thanks once again!
Thank you for input, Ayon! It really is helpful.
In your opinion, the scholarship is not enough to justify the riskier post MBA career journey, right?

Does anyone else agree or disagree or have anything else to add? Any input is helpful!

And Ayon, thanks once again!
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Duncan
I think this depends on your tolerance for risk and your best alternative to finding work in that country. Ayon is right: it's very hard to find work in the USA as an international student and the process is stressful and long. Rotman is an amazing school and it's the safer, low-risk option.

However, there is another way to look at this. The Simon school has better international mobility than many other US schools: it ranks 39th for international mobility, compared to 37th for Rotman, so it's not very different. Indeed, since Rotman has 20% more international students than Simon, probably Simon is actually better at placing international students than Rotman: http://www.simon.rochester.edu/programs/full-time-mba/careers/our-approach/resources-for-international-students/index.aspx. And the salaries are 22% higher after Simon, and the employment figures suggest that more Simon students get into work quickly. The scholarship maybe makes it easier for you to take the risk, and visa status means that the risk will always be there. let's just say.... it would be lovely if you could marry an American.

I've seen the positive impact that Simon had on a client who dropped out of a slightly higher-ranked European MBA to accept a scholarship at Rochester. He got a great summer internship in VC, worked in a VC firm and is now a risk management VP at Citi. That's just one data point, but I think I would pick Simon if I wanted to go into a quant-heavy role in finance, marketing or consulting. And, as Ayon says, Toronto and Rochester are very different cities.
I think this depends on your tolerance for risk and your best alternative to finding work in that country. Ayon is right: it's very hard to find work in the USA as an international student and the process is stressful and long. Rotman is an amazing school and it's the safer, low-risk option.

However, there is another way to look at this. The Simon school has better international mobility than many other US schools: it ranks 39th for international mobility, compared to 37th for Rotman, so it's not very different. Indeed, since Rotman has 20% more international students than Simon, probably Simon is actually better at placing international students than Rotman: http://www.simon.rochester.edu/programs/full-time-mba/careers/our-approach/resources-for-international-students/index.aspx. And the salaries are 22% higher after Simon, and the employment figures suggest that more Simon students get into work quickly. The scholarship maybe makes it easier for you to take the risk, and visa status means that the risk will always be there. let's just say.... it would be lovely if you could marry an American.

I've seen the positive impact that Simon had on a client who dropped out of a slightly higher-ranked European MBA to accept a scholarship at Rochester. He got a great summer internship in VC, worked in a VC firm and is now a risk management VP at Citi. That's just one data point, but I think I would pick Simon if I wanted to go into a quant-heavy role in finance, marketing or consulting. And, as Ayon says, Toronto and Rochester are very different cities.
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donho199
Steve can please share a bit of your background, what was your undergraduate education and University you attended as well as GMAT.

The Simon School is famed for corporate finance. They have top-notch faculty in micro-economics and corporate finance, they are truly world-class academics and published in top journals. The school is quant-driven but it is still an MBA program and not the same caliber as Chicago or CMU. Cliff Smith teaches there and Nobel laureate behaviors economics Richard Thaler did his PhD at Simon where he still teach a course in behaviors economics

On the other hand, Rotman Toronto is simply the best MBA programme overall in Canada so you are a bigger fish in a smaller pond. Toronto is thriving and Rochester is declining. Xerox once tech stalwarts who invented technologies that power up the Internet or how to interact meaningfully with PCs GUI i.e. mouse now sell photocopiers machines. Kodak was actually the first company who ever produced digital camera now sell scanners.

With Toronto you will be able to take a semester exchange with London Business School in London or AGSM in Sydney how awesome. You will be stuck in the cold of upstate New York and your electricity bill will be higher than that of rent.

Rotman faculty also will be more diverse and will be able to provide more meaningful MBA experience. You will also have John Hull to walk through Options and Derivatives and Risk modelling.

All the best and I am sure you will succeed with whichever option you go for.
Steve can please share a bit of your background, what was your undergraduate education and University you attended as well as GMAT.

The Simon School is famed for corporate finance. They have top-notch faculty in micro-economics and corporate finance, they are truly world-class academics and published in top journals. The school is quant-driven but it is still an MBA program and not the same caliber as Chicago or CMU. Cliff Smith teaches there and Nobel laureate behaviors economics Richard Thaler did his PhD at Simon where he still teach a course in behaviors economics

On the other hand, Rotman Toronto is simply the best MBA programme overall in Canada so you are a bigger fish in a smaller pond. Toronto is thriving and Rochester is declining. Xerox once tech stalwarts who invented technologies that power up the Internet or how to interact meaningfully with PCs GUI i.e. mouse now sell photocopiers machines. Kodak was actually the first company who ever produced digital camera now sell scanners.

With Toronto you will be able to take a semester exchange with London Business School in London or AGSM in Sydney how awesome. You will be stuck in the cold of upstate New York and your electricity bill will be higher than that of rent.

Rotman faculty also will be more diverse and will be able to provide more meaningful MBA experience. You will also have John Hull to walk through Options and Derivatives and Risk modelling.

All the best and I am sure you will succeed with whichever option you go for.
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