Hi all,

I would like to get some short advice on my current situation:

Applied to 6 schools, was admitted to 4 (CEIBS, IE, NUS, NTU) selected for interview and looking forward to it at two (IMD, INSEAD). Admissions offer at NUS and NTU allready run out (ok, was more intended to get used to the whole process in order to be prepared for programs where it´s harder to get in). Offer acceptance deadlines for CEIBS and IE are running out mid-July. (Whereas IE´s rolling admission would allow me to join their next intake as well, however, I do not have time to waste - see profile).

After I was successfull with four schools allready and selected for interview at the two (probably) most competetive ones (IMD, INSEAD) I estimate my chances well on getting into at least one of them. (What do you think? How hard is getting into IE, which "almost" compares to INSEAD in terms of reputation (?), compared to INSEAD? Is it valid to reason like this?).

The problem is now whether to accept IE or CEIBS (take the bird in the hand) or to miss the acceptance deadlines for the uncertainness of INSEAD and IMD.

My preferences: 1. INSEAD/IMD 2. CEIBS/IE (indifferent between each two, still making up my mind, comp. advantages etc.)

My profile:

Male/29(soon 30), 9 years industry experience in General MMgt., Marketing & Sales, 3 years of these as entrepreneur, GMAT 700 (Q and V well above 80%), AWA 5.5, languages: English and German fluent, good French and Portuguese (resulting from Portuguese, I understand some Spanish), have two undergrad degrees in BA and Economics (average GPA), actually located in Zurich, Switzerland.

Short term goal: Broaden my general management expertise, build a global network, enlarge my language portfolio. Collecting international work experience, prefered in emerging Markets (Latin Am., Asia).

Long Term Goal (10 years): becoming a partner in a PE boutique company. Buying, restructuring and selling SMU´s in international/emerging environment.

The situation: I will loose CEIBS if I do not accept within two weeks. I might loose the next IE intake if I do not accept till mid-July (however, could still take the next intake there). Want to start and finish my MBA ASAP!!!

Program Costs (I pay for myself):
CEIBS about 22K ?
IE, INSEAD and IMD: All about 50K ?
(Considering additional living expense, there won´t be much left afterwards, hope for a bit friendlier stock markets in the next months... :-))

Program ends: INSEAD, IMD, IE: December 2009 (IE only if I accept their offer NOW! Otherwise 6 months later). CEIBS February 2010.

Points where I am uncertain:

- CEIBS. Does it limit me to China afterwards? As I am unsure about location in the future, I would not like this. Is it worth the invest to learn Chinese in this case? Would that mean that I am somehow attached to China my whole live? Can I learn Chinese in this time? Is CEIBS really a good choice if I just want a international experience from a top MBA school but have no personal connection to China?)

- IE: Great program, no doubt. According to int. rankings one of the top four in Europe (INSEAD, LBS, IMD, IE). But can it (given the fact that the costs are equal) really compare to INSEAD? My feeling is, at least the brand, can´t.

- INSEAD does btw. NOT provide a language (sure you may pay for additional courses, but what I heard this is not a good idea as the curriculum is allready demanding enough). On the other hand, the chance of studying some periods in Singapore, one in France and one at Wharton in the US (exchange) is from my point of view hardly to beat by anything.... This, the brand, and the diversity & qulity of students there made it my first choice.

Option:

(i) Take CEIBS or IE now and forget aout INSEAD and IMD (Will never know if I would have made it into one of my two first choices.... but: A bird in the hand is worh two in the bush...)

(ii) Wait for INSEAD and IMD and take the risk of loosing admissions for the other shools and . (A bird in the bush is worth two in the hand! ;-))

Tend to (ii), but feel uncertain.

Recommendations & Comments?

Comments on school/profile fit?

Thanks!

Hi there, just a quick ?
Do you realize that actual salaries @ CEIBS are 1/3 of what FT lists them at? Its a PPP adjustment which catapults CEIBS in rankings. In real world CEIBS is no way near being world class.

IE for sure, and certainly IMD or Insead without any doubt.
Alternatively consider schools in Hong Kong for your international experience needs.

Thanks for your reply! Yes, I know FT salaries are PPP adjusted. But I think thats fair, most of their graduates take job offers in mainland China and salaries are lower there. They provide information about salaries on their website, seperate for Chinese and overseas students. Overseas students get more, but still much below what we would call a good salary. However, some of their graduates also go back to Europe or somewhere else (HK, Singapore) and probably earn more. Unfortunatly they do not provide seperate salary figures for job locations, they only seperate based on origin. The question for me would be if an INSEAD or IE graduate who works in Singapore, Madrid, London, Shonghai or whereever post MBA really earns more than a CEIBS graduate working in the same location.

reality #1, without Mandarin you will not be working in Shanghai.

reality #2 as ambitious as you might be it is virtually impossible for a foreigner to become fluent in reasonable amount of time.

As I mentioned before if you want Asia go to HK or Singapore where it is still possible to get a job with English only, and if you do go to local schools there.

Try Insead Singapore that should be your #1 choice, if not then Hong Kong UST and NUS.

Hi

Jake has provided some very useful information to you.

Local languages are vital to working in Asia. INSTEAD and IMD are the best options. However, if you plan to work in China, HKUST, and CEIBS would be some good choices.

On the other hand, if you plan to work in Singapore or around the region (e.g. Malaysia, Indonesia, Japan), then NTU would be a good choice.

Good luck to you.

Kind regards,
Thomas
thomaswai.blogspot.com

Hi all,

thanks for your feedbacks!

@Thomas: What makes you think "NSTEAD and IMD are the best options" Could you argue on that statement?

Hi janjan,

IE and IMD are both top business schools.

Regarding your questions of which school you should be joining if your application to INSEAD is not successful. The answer depends on you.

You have to ask yourself what you are looking for in your experience. For e.g. are you planning to learn a new language? Learning a new culture? Going for exchange? Networking with top business professionals? etc etc.

IMD, situated in Switzerland, has very strong contacts with international organizations in the country and other parts of the Europe; while IE has stronger contacts in the Spanish speaking region. Therefore, if you plan to work in Europe or America, IMD is a strong option; however, if you desire to work in Spain, then you should consider doing it with IE.

Just for your references, I myself have graduated from HSG (University of St Gallen), the top business school in the german-speaking region because I wanted to work with my german clients more closely in the future and take up a new langauge.

Good luck!

Kind regards,
Thomas

IMD is a better school than IE. Even in the case that you want to work in Spain, IMD will be more well considered than IE.

@Julian: Thanks for your views!

Actually entrepreneurship is also a field I am interested in (might pave the way to my long-term goal), therefore IE stays interesting, and indeed, have a strong personal attraction Latin Am.

However, IMD and INSEAD stay my No. 1 choices and I will see if I can get in.

EMBA is not a choice for me. Did both my undergrad degrees beside work (distance learning) and am now looking for one year of a pure learning experience, to consolidate everything I learned so far & get a new orientation & experience in live.

@SingleSpain:
Thanks for your input! I talked to several Spanish people here in Zurich and in Madrid who had a different view on this. No better place to go then to IE if one plans to work in Spain.

From Spain, I don't know where you've heard about Ie reputation here, but is far below Insead, Imd or LBS, and even Iese and Esade. Just read some threads (if you know spanish)... Try Insead and IMd, and choose them. I talk from the experience I've seen from friends and work colleagues

Hi Roja

Thanks for your feedback... Interesting point! However, quite confusing for me! I agree that IE can´t compare to IMD´s and INSEAD´s brands, but in Spain, acording to my research, they´re by far the best, and besides the brand also comparable to the others top European Schools.

Reasoning:

- I talked to two people from Spain here in Zurich who both recommended IE as the best School in there, additionally a friend in Marbella gave the same feedback. Ok, opinions are must allways be handled with care, but at least the guy in Marbella was pretty deep into the MBA topic and therefore I trust his opinion.

- Compare the Rankings. I did so and averaged the ranks of diverse european schools. the results were:
1. LBS, 2. INSEAD, 3. IE, 4. IMD, ... The other Spanish schools come at position 6. (IESE) and 9. (ESADE).
The rankings used were:
http://rankings.ft.com/global-mba-rankings
http://rankings.ft.com/european-business-school-rankings
http://mba.eiu.com/index.asp?layout=2002rankings
http://www.topmba.com/research/top_100_business_schools/4_top_business_schools/42_europe/
http://www.mba4success.com/rank_e.php
www.report-ed.com
http://www.beyondgreypinstripes.org/rankings/index.cfm
(The result stays the same if you exclude the last ranking, which might not be accepted by some as it is based on social aspects)

- As I said, this says nothing about a schools reputation. IE can´t catch up with IMD and INSEAD brands as it just recently moved so high in the rankings whiche these two are there since years. However, if the situation stays like this it might change.

- Another point I just found: Compare how often each school makes it into one of FT´s "A league of its own" Top10 category rankings of FT. They can be found here:
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/3f930b0c-cb17-11dc-97ff-000077b07658.html

IE: 8 times
LBS: 4 times
INSEAD: 3 times
IMD: 3 times
ESADE: 2 times
IESE: 2 times

Well, I don´t want to convice anybody about anything, just like to have reasoned opinions to enable a decision I feel comfortable with.

Roja, could you provide links to the forums you mentioned?
I experienced something similar for INSEAD Singapore, many Singaporeans are bashing it in forums out of some reason... Their arguments were finally not justified.

However, will wait for INSEAD first. Still unsure between IMD and IE as long as I don´t get better reasoned arguments for / against the schools!

Hi, as far as the IE I would advise to be very carefull.
I did my executive MBA there and I ended it up extremely disappointed as many of the students.
I do not want to influence your decision, my suggestion is to ask the administration for the full list of partecipants and you select two of them for private conversation. Please do not let the school pick for you, IE contacted and selected my classmates to do so.
For your reference my class wrote to the dean at one point during the course to complain about the quality of the teaching as we are still waiting for a reply after 8 months.

think twice and ask to discuss with students

Hi janjan,

I am James from Taiwan. I got MBA admission from IE and decided to go there next year. I think I can give you some different info from others.

Let me list what you want to get from MBA.
1. Working in Asia :
If you want to work in Asia after graduating from MBA, the reputations, networks and alumni of IMD and IE are weak(IMD has fewer alumni in Asia), but IE is devoted to exploiting potential students in China. I know the number of asia students is getting more and more increasing. Hence, IE may have a strong network in Asia in the future.

If you want to start your business in Asia, I think it is possible for foreigners to succeed in HK, Singapore and Taiwan, but impossible in China, because the differences of language and culture in China are huge obstacles, even to Taiwanese. Accordingly, you may need to choose b-school in HK or Singapore if you really want to get the work experience and prepare to start your business in Asia.

2. Learn a new language, Spanish or Mandarin.
I have to say that Mandarin is more difficult to learn than Spanish to you. Besides, you need to use completely different grammar and pronunciation for Mandarin. Therefore, to a foreigner, only spending two years learning Mandarin is hard to communicate with people speaking Mandarin, much more understanding indigenous accents and descriptions.

3. Entrepreneurship
I think IE is a master in the field of entrepreneurship. If entrepreneurship really interests you, IE will be your best choice.

4. Reputation
Reputation changes because of different areas. I can provide you with the reputation of b-schools in Taiwan and China.

Magic7 > Insead > LBS > CEIBS > IESE, IE > ESADE > IMD

This ranking is according to the number of people discussing and interested in a famous and popular China forum on the internet.

I always believe that MBA is a highly personalized program. People are supposed to choose fit MBA programs according to the highest priority of what they want. Therefore, I suggest that you should list all you want and then prioritize them. After doing so, you will find out your best choice. ^_^

I hope you guys still read this post as the last one was posted some time ago and would very much appreciate any feedback.

Janjan, seems we are facing similar decision with regard to our mbas, specifically INSEAD vs IE.

Im originally Latinamerican, though I grew up most of my life between Europe and the US. I did my undergraduate studies in Washington, DC and thus always thought combining it with an mba in Europe would be ideal.

INSEAD was always my target, but now that I'm submerged in the process I found IE to be a great choice.

I'm 29 as well, and find the one year programs to be ideal. My work experience has ranged from Dimplomacy, to Airlines to Commodity Trading in Europe and Latam. I mention it because I'm definately not one of those students who is entering the mba from the same field they want to go to after graduation. I'm looking for the mba as an opportunity to get out of the 'rat race' and come out with an interesting and exciting prospect. IE's student body as well as entrepreneurial outlook seems to fit just right!

Here is where I stand at the moment, in no order of importance to me:

Student Body:
INSEAD- Very international, which I like, but it seems to be predominantly from the Consulting - Finance sector, which I dont like. I fear that although the students are very different, their last 3+ years work experience will be similar...
IE- Very international as well, and the student's background seems to be quite diverse, different sectors, etc. Makes for an interesting and vibrant learning environment.

Reputation:
INSEAD definately takes the cake. I feel Insead has that Harvard quality, whereas IE is respected by those who either know it personally or are well informed about today's mba programs. From experience, I can say a good name goes a long way...

Professors:
Julian put each school's pros and cons very well. In my undergrad I had phenomenal professor. Of course most of them were too busy writing books, doing research, advising governments, etc.

Campus: At Insead I would definately look to do the Fontanbleu/Singapore exchange. I get the feeling you really have the student experience, especially in Fontainbleu as there is nothing else to do. At IE you can get lost in the city. Lived in Madrid for 2 years and have some friends. Havent yet decided if its a plus.

I'll stop there to not make it too long. Any feedback, comments from all in this post would be very welcome, as well as news on what decision you have made.

Thanks in advance,

Hi everyone

Can somebody help me choose between IE and Manchester? I've got accepted on both DL programs but I find difficult to make a decision. And I should hurry up because Manchester program starts in January.

Many thanks

Thanks for your reply! Yes, I know FT salaries are PPP adjusted. But I think thats fair, most of their graduates take job offers in mainland China and salaries are lower there. They provide information about salaries on their website, seperate for Chinese and overseas students. Overseas students get more, but still much below what we would call a good salary. However, some of their graduates also go back to Europe or somewhere else (HK, Singapore) and probably earn more. Unfortunatly they do not provide seperate salary figures for job locations, they only seperate based on origin. The question for me would be if an INSEAD or IE graduate who works in Singapore, Madrid, London, Shonghai or whereever post MBA really earns more than a CEIBS graduate working in the same location.