How true is what they say about Canada?


Canada2912

Firstly I was checking the ft masters in management and I noticed that both Queens and Victoria which are considered to be top notch for business education (Atleast amongst the local population) have dismal employment rates at only 68 and 75 percent.
However they rank highly in international mobility.
The MBA rankings also tell a similar story but unfortunately, Ivey which is long considered to be one of the most prestigious b schools in Canada is almost at the bottom of the chart for international mobility.

Secondly I was talking to people studying at these schools like York, queens, western, etc and almost all of them told me that they got literally no career progression out of their MBAs and since all of them were engineers (the ones I talked to), they were hired for Engineering roles rather than the roles they were looking for so essentially studying at these schools made the permanent residency process a lot easier and they got hired by a Canadian firm. They said that a lot of employers don't care avtout your degree in Canada and it's about what or who you know and also, Canada has a lot of underplaced people

Since many European schools don't ask for the GMAT for the masters (not MBA) and all the Canadian schools do, I don't think quality of the graduates from the MIM programs in Canada is low. Then, is it the case that most of these Canadian programs are generally means for people to get a foot in the door, get a permanent residency and immigrate to Canada and essentially find any job they can?

[Edited by Canada2912 on May 12, 2020]

Firstly I was checking the ft masters in management and I noticed that both Queens and Victoria which are considered to be top notch for business education (Atleast amongst the local population) have dismal employment rates at only 68 and 75 percent.
However they rank highly in international mobility.
The MBA rankings also tell a similar story but unfortunately, Ivey which is long considered to be one of the most prestigious b schools in Canada is almost at the bottom of the chart for international mobility.

Secondly I was talking to people studying at these schools like York, queens, western, etc and almost all of them told me that they got literally no career progression out of their MBAs and since all of them were engineers (the ones I talked to), they were hired for Engineering roles rather than the roles they were looking for so essentially studying at these schools made the permanent residency process a lot easier and they got hired by a Canadian firm. They said that a lot of employers don't care avtout your degree in Canada and it's about what or who you know and also, Canada has a lot of underplaced people

Since many European schools don't ask for the GMAT for the masters (not MBA) and all the Canadian schools do, I don't think quality of the graduates from the MIM programs in Canada is low. Then, is it the case that most of these Canadian programs are generally means for people to get a foot in the door, get a permanent residency and immigrate to Canada and essentially find any job they can?
quote
Ayon

Sounds like a gross generalization but broadly speaking is true.

Canada like Australia encourages immigration of highly education, highly skilled people in hopes of them fueling the startup scene that would add to Canada's GDP. MBA will not outshine macroeconomic indicators. a large percentage of workforce in Canada has  secondary or tertiary degrees. What this does is that it drives salaries low, since there is competition, and drives rent high, as more and more people arrive in few big cities. GTA, Vancouver, Montreal etc. Canada doesn't have a small city scene like US does.

Employers do care about your degree in Canada. But they will not hire you for a Wealth Portfolio Manager from Ivey, if all you did prior to Ivey was write a software code. They will surely prefer someone who maybe has a Finance background. (Radically changing function using MBA is the norm in India, not outside)

If all someone did was coding prior to MBA, most likely they'll be hired for a Engineering Manager type position post MBA.

[Edited by Ayon on May 12, 2020]

Sounds like a gross generalization but broadly speaking is true.<div><br></div><div><br></div><div>Canada like Australia encourages immigration of highly education, highly skilled people in hopes of them fueling the startup scene that would add to Canada's GDP. MBA will not outshine macroeconomic indicators. a large percentage of workforce in Canada has&nbsp; secondary or tertiary degrees. What this does is that it drives salaries low, since there is competition, and drives rent high, as more and more people arrive in few big cities. GTA, Vancouver, Montreal etc. Canada doesn't have a small city scene like US does.</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>Employers do care about your degree in Canada. But they will not hire you for a Wealth Portfolio Manager from Ivey, if all you did prior to Ivey was write a software code. They will surely prefer someone who maybe has a Finance background. (Radically changing function using MBA is the norm in India, not outside)</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>If all someone did was coding prior to MBA, most likely they'll be hired for a Engineering Manager type position post MBA.</div>
quote
Canada2912

Yes it is a gross generalisation but this is my experience after speaking to almost 40-50 Canadian grads from ivey, schulich, etc. Ofc, not all of them have gone back to doing what they did and some made a switch to finance but the majority had the outcomes that I write about. I think a lot of people do go to Canada for the immigration opportunities.
For example, I was talking to a Manchester MBA graduate from India the other day who is enroled in a diploma granting community college after his graduation from MBS MBA. He is doing that to settle in Canada as he couldn't find jobs in the UK. Cranfield F&M Msc grad told me that out of his class, only 1 indian found a job in the UK. I asked Cranfield for their international placements and they were kind enough to give them to me. None of the schools I requested actually did this except for Cranfield so I commend them for being so transparent but I won't comment on the placements of international students from Cranfield as they have been nice to me but.....

Sounds like a gross generalization but broadly speaking is true.

Canada like Australia encourages immigration of highly education, highly skilled people in hopes of them fueling the startup scene that would add to Canada's GDP. MBA will not outshine macroeconomic indicators. a large percentage of workforce in Canada has  secondary or tertiary degrees. What this does is that it drives salaries low, since there is competition, and drives rent high, as more and more people arrive in few big cities. GTA, Vancouver, Montreal etc. Canada doesn't have a small city scene like US does.

Employers do care about your degree in Canada. But they will not hire you for a Wealth Portfolio Manager from Ivey, if all you did prior to Ivey was write a software code. They will surely prefer someone who maybe has a Finance background. (Radically changing function using MBA is the norm in India, not outside)

If all someone did was coding prior to MBA, most likely they'll be hired for a Engineering Manager type position post MBA.

<div>Yes it is a gross generalisation but this is my experience after speaking to almost 40-50 Canadian grads from ivey, schulich, etc. Ofc, not all of them have gone back to doing what they did and some made a switch to finance but the majority had the outcomes that I write about. I think a lot of people do go to Canada for the immigration opportunities.</div><div><br></div><div>For example, I was talking to a Manchester MBA graduate from India the other day who is enroled in a diploma granting community college after his graduation from MBS MBA. He is doing that to settle in Canada as he couldn't find jobs in the UK.&nbsp;</div><div>Cranfield F&amp;M Msc grad told me that out of his class, only 1 indian found a job in the UK. I asked Cranfield for their international placements and they were kind enough to give them to me. None of the schools I requested actually did this except for Cranfield so I commend them for being so transparent but I won't comment on the placements of international students from Cranfield as they have been nice to me but.....</div><div><br></div><div><br></div>[quote]Sounds like a gross generalization but broadly speaking is true.<div><br></div><div><br></div><div>Canada like Australia encourages immigration of highly education, highly skilled people in hopes of them fueling the startup scene that would add to Canada's GDP. MBA will not outshine macroeconomic indicators. a large percentage of workforce in Canada has&nbsp; secondary or tertiary degrees. What this does is that it drives salaries low, since there is competition, and drives rent high, as more and more people arrive in few big cities. GTA, Vancouver, Montreal etc. Canada doesn't have a small city scene like US does.</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>Employers do care about your degree in Canada. But they will not hire you for a Wealth Portfolio Manager from Ivey, if all you did prior to Ivey was write a software code. They will surely prefer someone who maybe has a Finance background. (Radically changing function using MBA is the norm in India, not outside)</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>If all someone did was coding prior to MBA, most likely they'll be hired for a Engineering Manager type position post MBA.</div> [/quote]
quote
Canada2912

Also, do you think an Australian recruiter will discriminate between two guys if one was from the uni of Sydney and one from Macquarie? What about a person from let's say curtin or RMIT? 

Sounds like a gross generalization but broadly speaking is true.

Canada like Australia encourages immigration of highly education, highly skilled people in hopes of them fueling the startup scene that would add to Canada's GDP. MBA will not outshine macroeconomic indicators. a large percentage of workforce in Canada has  secondary or tertiary degrees. What this does is that it drives salaries low, since there is competition, and drives rent high, as more and more people arrive in few big cities. GTA, Vancouver, Montreal etc. Canada doesn't have a small city scene like US does.

Employers do care about your degree in Canada. But they will not hire you for a Wealth Portfolio Manager from Ivey, if all you did prior to Ivey was write a software code. They will surely prefer someone who maybe has a Finance background. (Radically changing function using MBA is the norm in India, not outside)

If all someone did was coding prior to MBA, most likely they'll be hired for a Engineering Manager type position post MBA.

<div>Also, do you think an Australian recruiter will discriminate between two guys if one was from the uni of Sydney and one from Macquarie? What about a person from let's say curtin or RMIT?&nbsp;</div><div><br></div>[quote]Sounds like a gross generalization but broadly speaking is true.<div><br></div><div><br></div><div>Canada like Australia encourages immigration of highly education, highly skilled people in hopes of them fueling the startup scene that would add to Canada's GDP. MBA will not outshine macroeconomic indicators. a large percentage of workforce in Canada has&nbsp; secondary or tertiary degrees. What this does is that it drives salaries low, since there is competition, and drives rent high, as more and more people arrive in few big cities. GTA, Vancouver, Montreal etc. Canada doesn't have a small city scene like US does.</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>Employers do care about your degree in Canada. But they will not hire you for a Wealth Portfolio Manager from Ivey, if all you did prior to Ivey was write a software code. They will surely prefer someone who maybe has a Finance background. (Radically changing function using MBA is the norm in India, not outside)</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>If all someone did was coding prior to MBA, most likely they'll be hired for a Engineering Manager type position post MBA.</div> [/quote]
quote
smartcanad...

Yes it is a gross generalisation but this is my experience after speaking to almost 40-50 Canadian grads from ivey, schulich, etc. Ofc, not all of them have gone back to doing what they did and some made a switch to finance but the majority had the outcomes that I write about. I think a lot of people do go to Canada for the immigration opportunities.

I really like that you called and interviewed the grads.  That is exactly what I did when I was choosing between the US and Canada years ago.  Everyone said the same thing.  In fact, the students I called said that they regret not going to the US.  And that's why I chose the US for my MBA, but ended up in Canada anyway because getting a green card was a pipe dream. 
To be honest, the international students who go to Canada are self-selecting.  They are the ones who really want to migrate.  International students in the US, on the other hand, are more mixed, comprised of very ambitious people willing to take a 50/50 chance of immigration but with a much higher salary and career prospects, and those who are "stars" in their own countries who want to return and reach the top in their home countries (usually children of wealthy people).  
On a positive note, career prospects for Canada's MBAs are no worse than any other "normal" western country (e.g. non-London UK, Ireland, Australia, New Zealand, etc).  I think the international students taking their MBAs in Canada have unrealistic expectations, and think their outcomes/salaries will be similar to the US, when it is a completely different job market.  There's a reason the US attracts the most number of international students, and most of it pertains to $$$. 

I love Canada and the lifestyle.  Sure, if I convert my salary to US dollars, my 6 figure Canadian salary (which is good in Canada) suddenly doesn't look too good.  I get depressed sometimes looking at the median salaries (in US dollars) posted by my school in the FT and US News rankings.  You can't compare US to Canada.  Apples to Oranges.  

[Edited by smartcanada on May 13, 2020]

[quote]<div>Yes it is a gross generalisation but this is my experience after speaking to almost 40-50 Canadian grads from ivey, schulich, etc. Ofc, not all of them have gone back to doing what they did and some made a switch to finance but the majority had the outcomes that I write about. I think a lot of people do go to Canada for the immigration opportunities.</div>[/quote]<div><br></div><div>I really like that you called and interviewed the grads.&nbsp; That is exactly what I did when I was choosing between the US and Canada years ago.&nbsp; Everyone said the same thing.&nbsp; In fact, the students I called said that they regret not going to the US.&nbsp; And that's why I chose the US for my MBA, but ended up in Canada anyway because getting a green card was a pipe dream.&nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div>To be honest, the international students who go to Canada are self-selecting.&nbsp; They are the ones who really want to migrate.&nbsp; International students in the US, on the other hand, are more mixed, comprised of very ambitious people willing to take a 50/50 chance of immigration but with a much higher salary and career prospects, and those who are "stars" in their own countries who want to return and reach the top in their home countries (usually children of wealthy people).&nbsp;&nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div>On a positive note, career prospects for Canada's MBAs are no worse than any other "normal" western country (e.g. non-London UK, Ireland, Australia, New Zealand, etc).&nbsp; I think the international students taking their MBAs in Canada have unrealistic expectations, and think their outcomes/salaries will be similar to the US, when it is a completely different job market.&nbsp; There's a reason the US attracts the most number of international students, and most of it pertains to $$$.&nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>I love Canada and the lifestyle.&nbsp; Sure, if I convert my salary to US dollars, my 6 figure Canadian salary (which is good in Canada) suddenly doesn't look too good.&nbsp; I get depressed sometimes looking at the median salaries (in US dollars) posted by my school in the FT and US News rankings.&nbsp; You can't compare US to Canada.&nbsp; Apples to Oranges.&nbsp;&nbsp;</div>
quote
Canada2912

Yes it is a gross generalisation but this is my experience after speaking to almost 40-50 Canadian grads from ivey, schulich, etc. Ofc, not all of them have gone back to doing what they did and some made a switch to finance but the majority had the outcomes that I write about. I think a lot of people do go to Canada for the immigration opportunities.

I really like that you called and interviewed the grads.  That is exactly what I did when I was choosing between the US and Canada years ago.  Everyone said the same thing.  In fact, the students I called said that they regret not going to the US.  And that's why I chose the US for my MBA, but ended up in Canada anyway because getting a green card was a pipe dream. 
To be honest, the international students who go to Canada are self-selecting.  They are the ones who really want to migrate.  International students in the US, on the other hand, are more mixed, comprised of very ambitious people willing to take a 50/50 chance of immigration but with a much higher salary and career prospects, and those who are "stars" in their own countries who want to return and reach the top in their home countries (usually children of wealthy people).  
On a positive note, career prospects for Canada's MBAs are no worse than any other "normal" western country (e.g. non-London UK, Ireland, Australia, New Zealand, etc).  I think the international students taking their MBAs in Canada have unrealistic expectations, and think their outcomes/salaries will be similar to the US, when it is a completely different job market.  There's a reason the US attracts the most number of international students, and most of it pertains to $$$. 

I love Canada and the lifestyle.  Sure, if I convert my salary to US dollars, my 6 figure Canadian salary (which is good in Canada) suddenly doesn't look too good.  I get depressed sometimes looking at the median salaries (in US dollars) posted by my school in the FT and US News rankings.  You can't compare US to Canada.  Apples to Oranges.  
Thank you for your reply. I have messaged a lot of people on LinkedIn and many of my relatives live in Canada. In my perception, the prospects of students who went to Ireland turned out to be better than Canada tbh. I was researching this as I have an offer from UCD and many people were working at great roles in top organisations like Facebook, LinkedIn etc in Ireland..If you don't mind me asking, when did you reach the 6 figure mark in Canada? A lot of my undergrad friends are earning a lot in investment banking in london or at MBB in the middle East but in my home country 6 figure salaries are unheard of after undergrad or if people get them, there is generally a news article about them. You are right about the US. The career opportunities are unparalleled. I was researching on SMU and ASU as I had offers from them. Not surprisingly, most of the students I came across were in data analytics at these schools. Many of them were afraid of what was going to happen next but  the jobs they had were top notch- FAANG, Bloomberg etc. I have seen a lot of students from lower ranked colleges doing great in tech in the US. My feeling is that tech in the US is a lot more meritocratic than IB, where the name of the school matters a lot. I know I will be reprimanded for this view but I feel this to be true. 

[quote][quote]<div>Yes it is a gross generalisation but this is my experience after speaking to almost 40-50 Canadian grads from ivey, schulich, etc. Ofc, not all of them have gone back to doing what they did and some made a switch to finance but the majority had the outcomes that I write about. I think a lot of people do go to Canada for the immigration opportunities.</div>[/quote]<div><br></div><div>I really like that you called and interviewed the grads.&nbsp; That is exactly what I did when I was choosing between the US and Canada years ago.&nbsp; Everyone said the same thing.&nbsp; In fact, the students I called said that they regret not going to the US.&nbsp; And that's why I chose the US for my MBA, but ended up in Canada anyway because getting a green card was a pipe dream.&nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div>To be honest, the international students who go to Canada are self-selecting.&nbsp; They are the ones who really want to migrate.&nbsp; International students in the US, on the other hand, are more mixed, comprised of very ambitious people willing to take a 50/50 chance of immigration but with a much higher salary and career prospects, and those who are "stars" in their own countries who want to return and reach the top in their home countries (usually children of wealthy people).&nbsp;&nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div>On a positive note, career prospects for Canada's MBAs are no worse than any other "normal" western country (e.g. non-London UK, Ireland, Australia, New Zealand, etc).&nbsp; I think the international students taking their MBAs in Canada have unrealistic expectations, and think their outcomes/salaries will be similar to the US, when it is a completely different job market.&nbsp; There's a reason the US attracts the most number of international students, and most of it pertains to $$$.&nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>I love Canada and the lifestyle.&nbsp; Sure, if I convert my salary to US dollars, my 6 figure Canadian salary (which is good in Canada) suddenly doesn't look too good.&nbsp; I get depressed sometimes looking at the median salaries (in US dollars) posted by my school in the FT and US News rankings.&nbsp; You can't compare US to Canada.&nbsp; Apples to Oranges.&nbsp;&nbsp;</div> [/quote]<div>Thank you for your reply. I have messaged a lot of people on LinkedIn and many of my relatives live in Canada.&nbsp;</div><div>In my perception, the prospects of students who went to Ireland turned out to be better than Canada tbh. I was researching this as I have an offer from UCD and many people were working at great roles in top organisations like Facebook, LinkedIn etc in Ireland..</div><div>If you don't mind me asking, when did you reach the 6 figure mark in Canada? A lot of my undergrad friends are earning a lot in investment banking in london or at MBB in the middle East but in my home country 6 figure salaries are unheard of after undergrad or if people get them, there is generally a news article about them.&nbsp;</div><div>You are right about the US. The career opportunities are unparalleled. I was researching on SMU and ASU as I had offers from them. Not surprisingly, most of the students I came across were in data analytics at these schools. Many of them were afraid of what was going to happen next but&nbsp; the jobs they had were top notch- FAANG, Bloomberg etc. I have seen a lot of students from lower ranked colleges doing great in tech in the US. My feeling is that tech in the US is a lot more meritocratic than IB, where the name of the school matters a lot. I know I will be reprimanded for this view but I feel this to be true.&nbsp;</div>
quote
smartcanad...

My feeling is that tech in the US is a lot more meritocratic than IB, where the name of the school matters a lot. I know I will be reprimanded for this view but I feel this to be true. 

If you are the high risk / high return type of person, the US is the way to go.  Your upside will be much higher than in Canada, although your downside will also be worse (kicked out of the US if you are laid off).  Also, if you have a family with kids, it is almost impossible to stay long-term in the US because when your kids get older, they will have to figure out how to stay in the US on their own (they can no longer rely on your visa).  However, if you are single and are looking to start a family anyway, there are literally millions of American women you can choose from, date and eventually marry and avoid the immigration headache.  That's what most of my single, international student classmates did in the US.  That strategy works, but it was not for me because I already had a family by the time I started my MBA.  

[quote]<div>My feeling is that tech in the US is a lot more meritocratic than IB, where the name of the school matters a lot. I know I will be reprimanded for this view but I feel this to be true.&nbsp;<br></div> [/quote]<div><br></div><div>If you are the high risk / high return type of person, the US is the way to go.&nbsp; Your upside will be much higher than in Canada, although your downside will also be worse (kicked out of the US if you are laid off).&nbsp; Also, if you have a family with kids, it is almost impossible to stay long-term in the US because when your kids get older, they will have to figure out how to stay in the US on their own (they can no longer rely on your visa).&nbsp; However, if you are single and are looking to start a family anyway, there are literally millions of American women you can choose from, date and eventually marry and avoid the immigration headache.&nbsp; That's what most of my single, international student classmates did in the US.&nbsp; That strategy works, but it was not for me because I already had a family by the time I started my MBA.&nbsp;&nbsp;</div>
quote
Canada2912

My feeling is that tech in the US is a lot more meritocratic than IB, where the name of the school matters a lot. I know I will be reprimanded for this view but I feel this to be true. 

If you are the high risk / high return type of person, the US is the way to go.  Your upside will be much higher than in Canada, although your downside will also be worse (kicked out of the US if you are laid off).  Also, if you have a family with kids, it is almost impossible to stay long-term in the US because when your kids get older, they will have to figure out how to stay in the US on their own (they can no longer rely on your visa).  However, if you are single and are looking to start a family anyway, there are literally millions of American women you can choose from, date and eventually marry and avoid the immigration headache.  That's what most of my single, international student classmates did in the US.  That strategy works, but it was not for me because I already had a family by the time I started my MBA.  
Lol what countries were they from 

[quote][quote]<div>My feeling is that tech in the US is a lot more meritocratic than IB, where the name of the school matters a lot. I know I will be reprimanded for this view but I feel this to be true.&nbsp;<br></div> [/quote]<div><br></div><div>If you are the high risk / high return type of person, the US is the way to go.&nbsp; Your upside will be much higher than in Canada, although your downside will also be worse (kicked out of the US if you are laid off).&nbsp; Also, if you have a family with kids, it is almost impossible to stay long-term in the US because when your kids get older, they will have to figure out how to stay in the US on their own (they can no longer rely on your visa).&nbsp; However, if you are single and are looking to start a family anyway, there are literally millions of American women you can choose from, date and eventually marry and avoid the immigration headache.&nbsp; That's what most of my single, international student classmates did in the US.&nbsp; That strategy works, but it was not for me because I already had a family by the time I started my MBA.&nbsp;&nbsp;</div> [/quote]<div>Lol what countries were they from&nbsp;</div>
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