GMAT 600 + 5 years IT exp


draerer

draerer
quote

Hi All,

Please assist me in my selection of business schools.Round one deadlines are about to get over and your timely suggestions can be very helpful.I understand that my GMAT score is on the lower side.Your timely suggestions can really help me.I am yet to shortlist any schools for round one deadlines.I have done some research but I need some tips from you people.Some have advised me to go for business schools in Canada and Newzealand as it's relatively easier to get work permits in these countries. I am interested in general MBA. Guys ! please help me. Any suggestions are welcome.

Hi All,

Please assist me in my selection of business schools.Round one deadlines are about to get over and your timely suggestions can be very helpful.I understand that my GMAT score is on the lower side.Your timely suggestions can really help me.I am yet to shortlist any schools for round one deadlines.I have done some research but I need some tips from you people.Some have advised me to go for business schools in Canada and Newzealand as it's relatively easier to get work permits in these countries. I am interested in general MBA. Guys ! please help me. Any suggestions are welcome.
quote
lukeh

Hi,

If you're from a Commonwealth country (India?), then it almost certainly will be easier for to get a work permit. Although strictly speaking it's not a work permit you want - at not until you've graduated - but a student visa. Again, I should imagine Commonwealth countries (including the UK), will be a bit more likely to grant you one, but that is not to say that others won't. I would be very surprised if you had trouble getting a student visa to come and study in Europe, and once you've completed your course in any given country the likelihood of your being granted a full work permit is considerably higher.

A quick note on business schools in Canada and New Zealand. I'm sure there are a number of reputable ones, and it is perhaps the case that they charge lower tuition fees than schools in Europe and the US do, but these factors have to be weighed against the quality of the qualification you'll receive in return, the standing of the school, and the strength/depth of its alumni network. If you can raise the funds, I would recommend looking primarily at US and EU school, HKUST and INSEAD in Asia, and only consider Canada and NZ afterwards. Of those two, however, I personally would probably be interested in Canada, not least because of its proximity and business ties to the US.

Hi,

If you're from a Commonwealth country (India?), then it almost certainly will be easier for to get a work permit. Although strictly speaking it's not a work permit you want - at not until you've graduated - but a student visa. Again, I should imagine Commonwealth countries (including the UK), will be a bit more likely to grant you one, but that is not to say that others won't. I would be very surprised if you had trouble getting a student visa to come and study in Europe, and once you've completed your course in any given country the likelihood of your being granted a full work permit is considerably higher.

A quick note on business schools in Canada and New Zealand. I'm sure there are a number of reputable ones, and it is perhaps the case that they charge lower tuition fees than schools in Europe and the US do, but these factors have to be weighed against the quality of the qualification you'll receive in return, the standing of the school, and the strength/depth of its alumni network. If you can raise the funds, I would recommend looking primarily at US and EU school, HKUST and INSEAD in Asia, and only consider Canada and NZ afterwards. Of those two, however, I personally would probably be interested in Canada, not least because of its proximity and business ties to the US.
quote

thanks for the reply

thanks for the reply
quote
lukeh

Hi.

I'm afraid that really is a lot of questions to answer, some of which there's no way I can answer for you.

The only sports MBA that springs to mind immediately (there may well be others), is in the UK. The University of Liverpool does a Football Industries MBA (FIMBA).

If there's anyone else out there better qualified to help, please do!

Hi.

I'm afraid that really is a lot of questions to answer, some of which there's no way I can answer for you.

The only sports MBA that springs to mind immediately (there may well be others), is in the UK. The University of Liverpool does a Football Industries MBA (FIMBA).

If there's anyone else out there better qualified to help, please do!
quote

quote

Hi Lukeh,

Any answers from you.....will be more than happy to get a feedback from you ...thanks in advance

Hi Lukeh,

Any answers from you.....will be more than happy to get a feedback from you ...thanks in advance
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ramdi

Sorry dear,
Looking at your profile (Indian, IT, Male), you fall in one of the most competitive pool of applicants for any decent to excellent B-school in the world. Add 20-40 to the average GMAT score for any school since you fall in the above category (since Indians bring on board very high GMAT scores).... And looking at your GMAT score, I would advise you to go for it again and try to reach 700 at least. Any thing less than that and your chances to get into any good school are no better than McCain winning the next US election....:-)
Admissions this year will be even more competitive due to bad economy.
Sorry if you find my feedback a bit rude but that's very close to the fact. Just my two cents!

Sorry dear,
Looking at your profile (Indian, IT, Male), you fall in one of the most competitive pool of applicants for any decent to excellent B-school in the world. Add 20-40 to the average GMAT score for any school since you fall in the above category (since Indians bring on board very high GMAT scores).... And looking at your GMAT score, I would advise you to go for it again and try to reach 700 at least. Any thing less than that and your chances to get into any good school are no better than McCain winning the next US election....:-)
Admissions this year will be even more competitive due to bad economy.
Sorry if you find my feedback a bit rude but that's very close to the fact. Just my two cents!

quote
D.jung

Well, i think i was discussed here before, but i will like to point out the to the fact, that the nationality doesn't really play a role in the decision - a GMAT score from an applicant from India equals the GMAT score of any other nationality! that's an international test, and it is not judged on a national level(otherwise the discrimination lawsuits will be flying all over the place!).

I do agree though, that the higher the score, the better the chances are to get into a top school, and 600 is a bit on the low side.

D.

Well, i think i was discussed here before, but i will like to point out the to the fact, that the nationality doesn't really play a role in the decision - a GMAT score from an applicant from India equals the GMAT score of any other nationality! that's an international test, and it is not judged on a national level(otherwise the discrimination lawsuits will be flying all over the place!).

I do agree though, that the higher the score, the better the chances are to get into a top school, and 600 is a bit on the low side.

D.
quote
lukeh

I'd second what D.jung says. If Indians were required to get a higher score just because they already tend to get higher than average scores (is there any actual evidence of this?), it would be a scandal.

I'd second what D.jung says. If Indians were required to get a higher score just because they already tend to get higher than average scores (is there any actual evidence of this?), it would be a scandal.
quote
kenfrapin

Contrary to what most people / students know and think, the industry is not that bad in many countries. Agreed, the credit crunch has affected many financial companies and related sectors but the IT industry is still going strong. I know from personal experience and for the fact that I still get many offers from countries in Europe and Australasia. I currently live in the UK, and plan to pursue my MBA in NZ, mainly because I want to settle down in NZ.
For your profile, a 1 year MBA is just about right. Again, agreed, if you join a top Ivy league college in the US or Europe, your chances securing a top notch job (though you may not be the smartest person) on earth increases a lot. ITts hard work to get in but once you are in, you get transformed by the college.

The University of Liverpool do have an MBA in Football Management, my friend of many years has just joined them now. They are the only college giving this course, have excellent tie ups with FEW Premier League clubs and many First Division Clubs. This course has been going strong since 1997 and every student has been placed straight out of college in good companies and football clubs. Take it if you are truly interested in this line. You will learn a little of everything including how to manage financies, relationships, media and what not :-)

Finally, pursuing an MBA is down to your intentions and financial backing. MBA fees are really steep and you need to see if it is worth investing that much into one. If you want to settle in a speciic country, chose a college thats well known locally. If you want to just study and go back home, then better opt for a college that is known the world over. You have been working for 5 years mate, so if you are worth your experience,which I am sure you are, then an MBA from any one of the good colleges would do wonders to you. Just hope you know where you want to go and what you want to achieve.
My best wishes to your studies ahead. Dont worry too much, choose where you want to live post MBA, then finalize your budget, then opt for decent college with good MBA content and go ahead. Most NZ and Australian MBAs are good only if you plan to work there. US, Canadian and European MBAs are accepted pretty much everywhere.

Cheers
Ken

Contrary to what most people / students know and think, the industry is not that bad in many countries. Agreed, the credit crunch has affected many financial companies and related sectors but the IT industry is still going strong. I know from personal experience and for the fact that I still get many offers from countries in Europe and Australasia. I currently live in the UK, and plan to pursue my MBA in NZ, mainly because I want to settle down in NZ.
For your profile, a 1 year MBA is just about right. Again, agreed, if you join a top Ivy league college in the US or Europe, your chances securing a top notch job (though you may not be the smartest person) on earth increases a lot. ITts hard work to get in but once you are in, you get transformed by the college.

The University of Liverpool do have an MBA in Football Management, my friend of many years has just joined them now. They are the only college giving this course, have excellent tie ups with FEW Premier League clubs and many First Division Clubs. This course has been going strong since 1997 and every student has been placed straight out of college in good companies and football clubs. Take it if you are truly interested in this line. You will learn a little of everything including how to manage financies, relationships, media and what not :-)

Finally, pursuing an MBA is down to your intentions and financial backing. MBA fees are really steep and you need to see if it is worth investing that much into one. If you want to settle in a speciic country, chose a college thats well known locally. If you want to just study and go back home, then better opt for a college that is known the world over. You have been working for 5 years mate, so if you are worth your experience,which I am sure you are, then an MBA from any one of the good colleges would do wonders to you. Just hope you know where you want to go and what you want to achieve.
My best wishes to your studies ahead. Dont worry too much, choose where you want to live post MBA, then finalize your budget, then opt for decent college with good MBA content and go ahead. Most NZ and Australian MBAs are good only if you plan to work there. US, Canadian and European MBAs are accepted pretty much everywhere.

Cheers
Ken
quote
ramdi

Dear lukeh & D. Jung,
Probably I could not put my message clearly.
If you happen to talk to any admission committe of any reputed school, they will tell you that GMAT of Indian applicants is always higher than the average of the class. The reason is that along with China, Indians take GMAT in the highest numbers.
(See second para in the following article)
http://www.manhattangmat.com/strategy-series-test-trends.cfm

Also, they are pretty proficient in english as well as mathematics (I am putting this point because non-native english speakers face lots of problem in the verbal section but Indians usually do pretty well in both).

So let's say if an MBA class in a top USA program has 300 students, there are ususally ~100 or so international students.. out of these, may be at the most 10 will be Indians... and out of these 10, no more than 5 will be from IT background... So Abhinavroy19 (the Indian IT guy who posted the question in this thread) has to compete for these 5 seats... Take top 50 programs of the world and he still has to figure in 50 * ~5= ~250 students from India in a year (assuming only GMAT takers from that year are applying, which is of course not true...). There are more than 10K GMAT takers every year from India. Even if 5% of them score equal to or more than 700, this number is 500 (every year). So, if you are admission director and you get hundreds of applicants in 700+ range from a country, will you even look at a guy who scored 600 only (unless he is really exceptional which is not true in the case of this candidate)? Natually, his profile will not be shortlisted for the final review.

So lukeh, here is my point. Yes, Indians do need to score higher than the average of the class (mostly towards the upper limit of the scale or definitely 700+ at least) to make a cut. The reason is too many compatriots with good test scores and there can be only a limited number of people from a particular country.

D.Jung, Yes, nationality also plays a role. With 600 score, an Indian or Chinese will go no where. But if you happen to be from Bhutan, you are through. In fact, I have peronally met a guy with 3 years of call center experience and a B. Sc. degree from Delhi University (65% marks) who got into Harvard and Stanford both. His GMAT score was 640. Not to mention, he could have been the only guy from his country to have applied for MBA in USA (in many years)......

In the end, see the title of this interview and then read the last paragraph on the first page of this interview -
http://www.pagalguy.com/index.php?categoryid=43&p2_articleid=818

Dear lukeh & D. Jung,
Probably I could not put my message clearly.
If you happen to talk to any admission committe of any reputed school, they will tell you that GMAT of Indian applicants is always higher than the average of the class. The reason is that along with China, Indians take GMAT in the highest numbers.
(See second para in the following article)
http://www.manhattangmat.com/strategy-series-test-trends.cfm

Also, they are pretty proficient in english as well as mathematics (I am putting this point because non-native english speakers face lots of problem in the verbal section but Indians usually do pretty well in both).

So let's say if an MBA class in a top USA program has 300 students, there are ususally ~100 or so international students.. out of these, may be at the most 10 will be Indians... and out of these 10, no more than 5 will be from IT background... So Abhinavroy19 (the Indian IT guy who posted the question in this thread) has to compete for these 5 seats... Take top 50 programs of the world and he still has to figure in 50 * ~5= ~250 students from India in a year (assuming only GMAT takers from that year are applying, which is of course not true...). There are more than 10K GMAT takers every year from India. Even if 5% of them score equal to or more than 700, this number is 500 (every year). So, if you are admission director and you get hundreds of applicants in 700+ range from a country, will you even look at a guy who scored 600 only (unless he is really exceptional which is not true in the case of this candidate)? Natually, his profile will not be shortlisted for the final review.

So lukeh, here is my point. Yes, Indians do need to score higher than the average of the class (mostly towards the upper limit of the scale or definitely 700+ at least) to make a cut. The reason is too many compatriots with good test scores and there can be only a limited number of people from a particular country.

D.Jung, Yes, nationality also plays a role. With 600 score, an Indian or Chinese will go no where. But if you happen to be from Bhutan, you are through. In fact, I have peronally met a guy with 3 years of call center experience and a B. Sc. degree from Delhi University (65% marks) who got into Harvard and Stanford both. His GMAT score was 640. Not to mention, he could have been the only guy from his country to have applied for MBA in USA (in many years)......

In the end, see the title of this interview and then read the last paragraph on the first page of this interview -
http://www.pagalguy.com/index.php?categoryid=43&p2_articleid=818
quote
lukeh

Sure, I can accept a good deal of what you're saying. But is it really true that, as you put it, "there can be only a limited number of people from a particular country". I'm not really arguing this point, just asking whether you, or anyone else, is aware of a quota based on nationality operating in the admissions offices of top b-schools.

Sure, I can accept a good deal of what you're saying. But is it really true that, as you put it, "there can be only a limited number of people from a particular country". I'm not really arguing this point, just asking whether you, or anyone else, is aware of a quota based on nationality operating in the admissions offices of top b-schools.
quote
ramdi

Yes, every school aims for diversity - in nationality, and functional background.
For example, I attended Insead MBA admission session at their Singapore center and they clearly told that they ensure that every single nationality should be a 'minority' on the campus. They implement it by having an upper cap of 10% on any nationality (Incidentally, Indians constituted 10% of the entire batch last year - the highest... French were close second).
However in USA, mostly more than 50% class is reserved for Americans and they admit the rest from all over the world. The aim is to have maximum diversity in terms of nationality and the industry background to enrich the class experience. You can verify it by going to class composition of any top US university.

Yes, every school aims for diversity - in nationality, and functional background.
For example, I attended Insead MBA admission session at their Singapore center and they clearly told that they ensure that every single nationality should be a 'minority' on the campus. They implement it by having an upper cap of 10% on any nationality (Incidentally, Indians constituted 10% of the entire batch last year - the highest... French were close second).
However in USA, mostly more than 50% class is reserved for Americans and they admit the rest from all over the world. The aim is to have maximum diversity in terms of nationality and the industry background to enrich the class experience. You can verify it by going to class composition of any top US university.
quote
D.jung

Ah, I see you're point, but the fact that they are reserving a percentage of the class to different nationality's doesn't necessarily have to mean they measure the applicants against others from the same nationality - i would think the same measure apply for all of them - where ever they are from. It will be a problematic system for the schools and would lead to big differences between students from different nationality's in the same class, and that would mean, the quality of the course will have to be compromised.

but i could be wrong of course.

David

Ah, I see you're point, but the fact that they are reserving a percentage of the class to different nationality's doesn't necessarily have to mean they measure the applicants against others from the same nationality - i would think the same measure apply for all of them - where ever they are from. It will be a problematic system for the schools and would lead to big differences between students from different nationality's in the same class, and that would mean, the quality of the course will have to be compromised.

but i could be wrong of course.

David
quote
lukeh

With regard to the last article you linked to, the final 2 paras of p. 1: "I will not look at the application if the GMAT score is under 600-610. Above that GMAT really is not that important. So whether you have 650 or 750, that doesn?t make a big difference. The work experience and what you?ve achieved in your career is a lot more important. I think the more work experience you have, the lesser your academic qualifications are going to matter.

"Having said that, in India the GMATs tend to be very high. With that pool of people in front of me, I am going to try and select the best and so among the GMAT scores in our class, those of Indians tend to be probably higher than the rest of the class. So if the GMAT average for the class is 680, for Indians it would be a little over 700."

Is he he saying that Indians will have to have a GMAT score of over 700 to be considered, or simply that, as you say, Indians do generally have higher scores?

I personally would not be at all surprised if Indians do get higher scores, for all the reason already suggested. But surely that does not necessarily mean they have to get disproportionately higher scores again in order to compete with one another, let alone everyone else.

Once again, I'm not disputing anything that's been said. I'm really just interested in this issue; one I hadn't come across before.

With regard to the last article you linked to, the final 2 paras of p. 1: "I will not look at the application if the GMAT score is under 600-610. Above that GMAT really is not that important. So whether you have 650 or 750, that doesn?t make a big difference. The work experience and what you?ve achieved in your career is a lot more important. I think the more work experience you have, the lesser your academic qualifications are going to matter.

"Having said that, in India the GMATs tend to be very high. With that pool of people in front of me, I am going to try and select the best and so among the GMAT scores in our class, those of Indians tend to be probably higher than the rest of the class. So if the GMAT average for the class is 680, for Indians it would be a little over 700."

Is he he saying that Indians will have to have a GMAT score of over 700 to be considered, or simply that, as you say, Indians do generally have higher scores?

I personally would not be at all surprised if Indians do get higher scores, for all the reason already suggested. But surely that does not necessarily mean they have to get disproportionately higher scores again in order to compete with one another, let alone everyone else.

Once again, I'm not disputing anything that's been said. I'm really just interested in this issue; one I hadn't come across before.
quote
ramdi

Hi lukeh,
Believe me or not, Indians unfortunately have this disadvantage of scoring at least 700 just to be considered, all other merits come after that.
So coming to your question - "Is he saying that Indians will have to have a GMAT score of over 700 to be considered, or simply that, as you say, Indians do generally have higher scores? " Answer is both. Since so many indians score so highly, even if they shortlist 10x top applications from this pool for interview for x intended seats, cutoff for GMAT for Indians still remains 700 plus. Then come into picture, all the other factors including merit, experience and interview.

So in a way, your second statement that Indians have to score higher than others just to compete with each other is unfortunately true. And worse even, if you are an engineer, you are doomed (India produces more than 200K engineers a year). One admission commitee member in USA once told me that two groups that are most competitive for any top B-school are - male/Indian/engineer and white (US)/male/banker. Not fair but true!

Hi D.Jung,
In order to accomodate maximum nationalities and different backgrounds, some nationalities are at disadvantage than others.

Hi lukeh,
Believe me or not, Indians unfortunately have this disadvantage of scoring at least 700 just to be considered, all other merits come after that.
So coming to your question - "Is he saying that Indians will have to have a GMAT score of over 700 to be considered, or simply that, as you say, Indians do generally have higher scores? " Answer is both. Since so many indians score so highly, even if they shortlist 10x top applications from this pool for interview for x intended seats, cutoff for GMAT for Indians still remains 700 plus. Then come into picture, all the other factors including merit, experience and interview.

So in a way, your second statement that Indians have to score higher than others just to compete with each other is unfortunately true. And worse even, if you are an engineer, you are doomed (India produces more than 200K engineers a year). One admission commitee member in USA once told me that two groups that are most competitive for any top B-school are - male/Indian/engineer and white (US)/male/banker. Not fair but true!

Hi D.Jung,
In order to accomodate maximum nationalities and different backgrounds, some nationalities are at disadvantage than others.

quote

Hi,
why don't you try to find out which schools are more GMAT biased than others? I am sure that your chances are there!
Note that not all BS have the same critieria for admisions and the US schools have for instance no more than 10%-20% of non us MBAS. So for this reason they cannot admit more indians in the class. Which schools are you considering?

Hi,
why don't you try to find out which schools are more GMAT biased than others? I am sure that your chances are there!
Note that not all BS have the same critieria for admisions and the US schools have for instance no more than 10%-20% of non us MBAS. So for this reason they cannot admit more indians in the class. Which schools are you considering?

quote

Hi,
What about FEMALE/India/Engg +I.T. ... would that give me an edge?

Hi,
What about FEMALE/India/Engg +I.T. ... would that give me an edge?
quote
ramdi

Well, females always have much better probability in any B-school, given other factors are comparable to a male candidate with similar background :-)

Well, females always have much better probability in any B-school, given other factors are comparable to a male candidate with similar background :-)
quote

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