Deutschkurs, MBA or MSc


sisi00
Hi, it is wonderful to find this website. As I'm struggling with making a difficult decision. I hope I can get some useful suggestions here!

My background:

BA(hons) Fine Arts
2 years working experience as graphic designer
1 year working experience as assistant GM in a German company in China for 1 year,
3 years freelance translator for legal documents (English to Chinese)
2 years full-time mother of 2 children

As you see, my background with little hard core business experience does not make me a competitive candidate for top-tier MBA programs in Germany

Because I have an overwhelming urge to go back to the workforce, plus my family will move to Germany in one or two years, MBA study came to mind for helping me to land a job in Germany. After I tried GMAT three times(400, 520, 580), I feel frustrated and not sure if I'm the right person for MBA as I really have no talent in Algebra and Calculus. It took me three tries to finally score near 600, the experience with GMAT is terrible, worst ever, the only time that I take to prepare GMAT is early morning before my kids waking up and late evening after my kids sleeping. Luckily my kids and my husband are very supportive of my decision to take GMAT. I have contacted Hochshule Pforzheim, I got answer from them that they expect GMAT core is at least around 600. So I will give another try, and I see high GMAT score is very important to get into a decent business school in Germany.

Meanwhile, I also question myself if MBA is the right degree for me. I know the reason that I take MBA is only for the job purpose in Germany. I take it as a gateway to a wide range of career upon graduation. Considering my interests and capabilities, I think I’m able to work as HR, HRIT consultant, media operator or in the field of e-business. But I’m also open to any jobs which involve business transaction with China in Germany.

In case I don’t get into a decent MBA program from schools like Pforzheim, Reutlingen. I’m also thinking some unranked, non-asscsb, no-name school which don't require a GMAT with free or less fee. But I still think it’s not worth getting an MBA from such a school considering ROI and international mobility for non-EU students, because in the future my family will move back to China. Although my husband said working experience matters more than a school name in Germany.

I’m also thinking a different type of graduate degree would be useful for me than MBA, for example a German-taught Masters degree in Business or Management-related subject. But unfortunately there’s none for art undergraduate when I search DAAD except for the ones from private university or MBA.

After going through the forum, I also seriously consider about taking German language course, for example, at did Deutsch-institue. The school offers internship program. I think this is also a good options for me instead of MBA. Although I have got the C1 certificate from Institute Goethe from China, my oral German is still not fluent enough. I’m not sure will this option also leads me to a decent job in Germany.

So in the end I narrow down my choices to three to help me find a job in Germany:

1. Try the best to get a higher GMAT score and get into one of the decent MBAs such like Pforzheim, Reutlingen due to the low fees. I’m also thinking about HHL, WHU and EBS, but I will only go there if I get scholarship which I think highly impossible, as most of the scholarship I know depend on high GMAT. My husband also doubts about my ability to get a high score, and said if I could score even over 650, he would take over the wash dish job at home for one year, for that I will try hard :) .

2. Take intensive or business Deutsch course in Germany and look for jobs meanwhile. But I’m not sure how is the salary different for foreigners who have a MBA or a degree from Germany and who does not. Can a MBA or a Masters degree give foreigners an edge in job seeking in Germany and earn a serious pay?

3. Take 1 year master course in the field of business in Nottingham Ningbo campus. It may sound silly, as what a one-year English taught master can help me to find a job in Germany. But I do think I’m lack of business background.

4. Take MBA from China, and then go to Germany. But same question as above, how a MBA from China will help me find a job in Germany?

Thank you for reading my post. Any question and suggestion will be greatly appreciated!
Hi, it is wonderful to find this website. As I'm struggling with making a difficult decision. I hope I can get some useful suggestions here!

My background:

BA(hons) Fine Arts
2 years working experience as graphic designer
1 year working experience as assistant GM in a German company in China for 1 year,
3 years freelance translator for legal documents (English to Chinese)
2 years full-time mother of 2 children

As you see, my background with little hard core business experience does not make me a competitive candidate for top-tier MBA programs in Germany

Because I have an overwhelming urge to go back to the workforce, plus my family will move to Germany in one or two years, MBA study came to mind for helping me to land a job in Germany. After I tried GMAT three times(400, 520, 580), I feel frustrated and not sure if I'm the right person for MBA as I really have no talent in Algebra and Calculus. It took me three tries to finally score near 600, the experience with GMAT is terrible, worst ever, the only time that I take to prepare GMAT is early morning before my kids waking up and late evening after my kids sleeping. Luckily my kids and my husband are very supportive of my decision to take GMAT. I have contacted Hochshule Pforzheim, I got answer from them that they expect GMAT core is at least around 600. So I will give another try, and I see high GMAT score is very important to get into a decent business school in Germany.

Meanwhile, I also question myself if MBA is the right degree for me. I know the reason that I take MBA is only for the job purpose in Germany. I take it as a gateway to a wide range of career upon graduation. Considering my interests and capabilities, I think I’m able to work as HR, HRIT consultant, media operator or in the field of e-business. But I’m also open to any jobs which involve business transaction with China in Germany.

In case I don’t get into a decent MBA program from schools like Pforzheim, Reutlingen. I’m also thinking some unranked, non-asscsb, no-name school which don't require a GMAT with free or less fee. But I still think it’s not worth getting an MBA from such a school considering ROI and international mobility for non-EU students, because in the future my family will move back to China. Although my husband said working experience matters more than a school name in Germany.

I’m also thinking a different type of graduate degree would be useful for me than MBA, for example a German-taught Masters degree in Business or Management-related subject. But unfortunately there’s none for art undergraduate when I search DAAD except for the ones from private university or MBA.

After going through the forum, I also seriously consider about taking German language course, for example, at did Deutsch-institue. The school offers internship program. I think this is also a good options for me instead of MBA. Although I have got the C1 certificate from Institute Goethe from China, my oral German is still not fluent enough. I’m not sure will this option also leads me to a decent job in Germany.

So in the end I narrow down my choices to three to help me find a job in Germany:

1. Try the best to get a higher GMAT score and get into one of the decent MBAs such like Pforzheim, Reutlingen due to the low fees. I’m also thinking about HHL, WHU and EBS, but I will only go there if I get scholarship which I think highly impossible, as most of the scholarship I know depend on high GMAT. My husband also doubts about my ability to get a high score, and said if I could score even over 650, he would take over the wash dish job at home for one year, for that I will try hard :) .

2. Take intensive or business Deutsch course in Germany and look for jobs meanwhile. But I’m not sure how is the salary different for foreigners who have a MBA or a degree from Germany and who does not. Can a MBA or a Masters degree give foreigners an edge in job seeking in Germany and earn a serious pay?

3. Take 1 year master course in the field of business in Nottingham Ningbo campus. It may sound silly, as what a one-year English taught master can help me to find a job in Germany. But I do think I’m lack of business background.

4. Take MBA from China, and then go to Germany. But same question as above, how a MBA from China will help me find a job in Germany?

Thank you for reading my post. Any question and suggestion will be greatly appreciated!
quote
mcgr
Have you considered taking the GRE instead of the GMAT? I don't know that it is exactly easier than the GMAT, but the math is definitely more straight forward and it can maybe allow you to highlight other strengths. More importantly, if you can get a good enough score on the GRE, that could perhaps allow a school to focus on other aspects of your candidacy.

After studying for awhile for the GMAT I switched at kind of the last minute to GRE not because it was easier, but because I was uncomfortable with the GMAT biometric requirement. I actually found both math and verbal easier on the GRE, but after getting my scores and discussing them with admissions staff, they seemed to be under the impression that the verbal on the GRE was harder than the GMAT, so my high score there was seen as more impressive than an equivalent score on GMAT.

I'm afraid I've got no insight into the rest of your questions, but thought you might want to see if any of the schools you are interested in would accept the GRE, and if so maybe take a practice test online to see how you do.
Have you considered taking the GRE instead of the GMAT? I don't know that it is exactly easier than the GMAT, but the math is definitely more straight forward and it can maybe allow you to highlight other strengths. More importantly, if you can get a good enough score on the GRE, that could perhaps allow a school to focus on other aspects of your candidacy.

After studying for awhile for the GMAT I switched at kind of the last minute to GRE not because it was easier, but because I was uncomfortable with the GMAT biometric requirement. I actually found both math and verbal easier on the GRE, but after getting my scores and discussing them with admissions staff, they seemed to be under the impression that the verbal on the GRE was harder than the GMAT, so my high score there was seen as more impressive than an equivalent score on GMAT.

I'm afraid I've got no insight into the rest of your questions, but thought you might want to see if any of the schools you are interested in would accept the GRE, and if so maybe take a practice test online to see how you do.
quote
sisi00
Mcgr, thank you for your suggestion! I will seriously take that into consideration. I have heard about GRE, but I don't know the difference between GRE and GMAT. Also I need to check with the business schools in Germany if they accept GRE. But before that I will give another try on GMAT first. If the GMAT test scheduled next month comes back still unsatisfactory, I will take a GRE practise test online and see if GRE is better for me. My weakest part of GMAT is always IR and Quant, and verbal is bit better than another two. I use Manhattan for the practise this time, and I will just keep my fingers crossed and hope I will score better in this attempt:)
Mcgr, thank you for your suggestion! I will seriously take that into consideration. I have heard about GRE, but I don't know the difference between GRE and GMAT. Also I need to check with the business schools in Germany if they accept GRE. But before that I will give another try on GMAT first. If the GMAT test scheduled next month comes back still unsatisfactory, I will take a GRE practise test online and see if GRE is better for me. My weakest part of GMAT is always IR and Quant, and verbal is bit better than another two. I use Manhattan for the practise this time, and I will just keep my fingers crossed and hope I will score better in this attempt:)
quote
Duncan
The GRE is a good suggestion, but your low scores suggest to me that you are focussing on the knowledge of the topics being tested rather than the technique for passing the test. GMAT algebra is probably at the level of 13 years olds in Chinese high schools. You can do this.

Focus on German language skills, and especially on accent reduction and verbal fluency.

Without managerial experience a mainstream German MBA employer will not hire you unless it's for a role in China. The Nottingham option is not useful for you.

MSc options are worth considering. Something like this https://www.wiso.rw.fau.eu/study/study-options/masters/international-business-studies/ is aimed at business graduates but a 30 or 60 ECTS qualification in management might be acceptable. For example: http://www.londoninternational.ac.uk/courses/diploma-graduates/lse/diploma-graduates-management could be taken online or
The GRE is a good suggestion, but your low scores suggest to me that you are focussing on the knowledge of the topics being tested rather than the technique for passing the test. GMAT algebra is probably at the level of 13 years olds in Chinese high schools. You can do this.

Focus on German language skills, and especially on accent reduction and verbal fluency.

Without managerial experience a mainstream German MBA employer will not hire you unless it's for a role in China. The Nottingham option is not useful for you.

MSc options are worth considering. Something like this https://www.wiso.rw.fau.eu/study/study-options/masters/international-business-studies/ is aimed at business graduates but a 30 or 60 ECTS qualification in management might be acceptable. For example: http://www.londoninternational.ac.uk/courses/diploma-graduates/lse/diploma-graduates-management could be taken online or
quote
sisi00
Duncan, thank you for your suggestion. It's really useful! Indeed lots of Chinese MBA applicants achieved high GMAT score, that's maybe the reason why business schools usually expect higher GMAT results from Chinese applicants. I'm aware that I may not study the right method, and has changed the study schedule. Spend more time on questions reviews and give a mock on weekend and review the test.

MSc options from friedrich-alexander university looks very interesting. In fact, I just contacted the program leader for admission advice. The graduate diploma in Management from LSE is an online course. It's flexible for people who have family responsibilities like me. But LSE is from UK, will the course help me to find a job in Germany, or you suggest the program to me because it enjoys good reputation in Germany?
Duncan, thank you for your suggestion. It's really useful! Indeed lots of Chinese MBA applicants achieved high GMAT score, that's maybe the reason why business schools usually expect higher GMAT results from Chinese applicants. I'm aware that I may not study the right method, and has changed the study schedule. Spend more time on questions reviews and give a mock on weekend and review the test.

MSc options from friedrich-alexander university looks very interesting. In fact, I just contacted the program leader for admission advice. The graduate diploma in Management from LSE is an online course. It's flexible for people who have family responsibilities like me. But LSE is from UK, will the course help me to find a job in Germany, or you suggest the program to me because it enjoys good reputation in Germany?
quote
Duncan
I suggest it because a course like it could help gain admission into an MSc.
I suggest it because a course like it could help gain admission into an MSc.
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sisi00
Now it makes sense to me, thank you for your explanation!
Now it makes sense to me, thank you for your explanation!
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sisi00
Dose any one know about this program at Lepzig University? Here's the link: http://www.sept.uni-leipzig.de/mba-program/. How does the reputation of the program in Germany?

Many thanks!
Dose any one know about this program at Lepzig University? Here's the link: http://www.sept.uni-leipzig.de/mba-program/. How does the reputation of the program in Germany?

Many thanks!
quote
Duncan
This is a program aimed at people who want to lead SMEs in the developing world. It does not have international accreditation, but the DAAD has recongised it as a successful program. Because it is not aimed at preparing people for employment (but, instead, at self-employment) and because it is aimed at international opportunities rather than those in Germany it is not well known in Germany. I don't think there will be many, if any, regular Germans on the program.

Given that your goal seems to be on finding employment in Germany, I think your goals will be better met by improving your German language skills (especially accent reduction and conversational skills) and by finding opportunities to co-operate with others in a structured way in the German language, either through a course taught in German which includes group work or through internships or employment.

PS Thinking a little more of the courses which require the equivalent of a semester of business studies, I have seen that many German business schools will allow freemovers to come and take courses very inexpensively. I've explored options at a few Hochschulen, which have a wide range of options for inbound or incoming freemovers: https://www.google.co.uk/search?rlz=1C1CHBF_en-GBGB699GB699&biw=1600&bih=808&q=hochschule+inbound+freemover+site%3A.de&oq=hochschule+inbound+freemover+site%3A.de&gs_l=psy-ab.3...3580.7670.0.7997.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0..0.0....0...1.1.64.psy-ab..0.0.0.4_LNKYrlGxk.0.0.0.0.0.0.0..0.0....0...1.1.64.psy-ab..0.0.0.SRkWQMnEvmQ Generally, these schools' websites focusmore on how their students can become freemovers to universities outside Germany. However, many will be open to incoming freemovers as well. Some schools will have one semester certificates and part-time options. They could be a good route to help you access an MSc taught partly or fully in German.

[Edited by Duncan on Aug 22, 2017]

This is a program aimed at people who want to lead SMEs in the developing world. It does not have international accreditation, but the DAAD has recongised it as a successful program. Because it is not aimed at preparing people for employment (but, instead, at self-employment) and because it is aimed at international opportunities rather than those in Germany it is not well known in Germany. I don't think there will be many, if any, regular Germans on the program.

Given that your goal seems to be on finding employment in Germany, I think your goals will be better met by improving your German language skills (especially accent reduction and conversational skills) and by finding opportunities to co-operate with others in a structured way in the German language, either through a course taught in German which includes group work or through internships or employment.

PS Thinking a little more of the courses which require the equivalent of a semester of business studies, I have seen that many German business schools will allow freemovers to come and take courses very inexpensively. I've explored options at a few Hochschulen, which have a wide range of options for inbound or incoming freemovers: https://www.google.co.uk/search?rlz=1C1CHBF_en-GBGB699GB699&biw=1600&bih=808&q=hochschule+inbound+freemover+site%3A.de&oq=hochschule+inbound+freemover+site%3A.de&gs_l=psy-ab.3...3580.7670.0.7997.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0..0.0....0...1.1.64.psy-ab..0.0.0.4_LNKYrlGxk.0.0.0.0.0.0.0..0.0....0...1.1.64.psy-ab..0.0.0.SRkWQMnEvmQ Generally, these schools' websites focusmore on how their students can become freemovers to universities outside Germany. However, many will be open to incoming freemovers as well. Some schools will have one semester certificates and part-time options. They could be a good route to help you access an MSc taught partly or fully in German.
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