URGENT : HHL Leipzig vs Lancaster


ankit100

hello everyone. I have admit from HHL and Lancaster . Earlier I had decided to go for HHL , but after getting an admit from lancaster I am really confused.
I am afraid that german language would be a big factor in securing a job in germany ( i am from India) whereas visa rules and economy is in bad shape in Uk.
Guys please help which one should i go for

hello everyone. I have admit from HHL and Lancaster . Earlier I had decided to go for HHL , but after getting an admit from lancaster I am really confused.
I am afraid that german language would be a big factor in securing a job in germany ( i am from India) whereas visa rules and economy is in bad shape in Uk.
Guys please help which one should i go for
quote
Duncan

That is a hard choice. I'm a big fan of HHL. It's a great programme, with smart students, run by lovely people and very flexible: 12, 15 or 18 months. Leipzig is also home to the Herder Institut, one of the best places to learn German quickly (http://www.uni-leipzig.de/~interdaf/index.html). The German economy is also much more dynamic. Leipzig is an industrial city, unlike Lancaster. I think you'd learn more at HHL both because of the longer time in class, because you'd have fewer Indians and thus more of a learning curve, and because of the exchange semester (which perhaps allows you to hedge your bets - if you don't like Germany you can try another country for a semester).

Career services are weak at Lancaster, and it has a 82% placement rate compated to 95% at HHL. There are very few career events: programmes need them on a regular basis. It's a school for general management rather than for finance or other specialisations, but the school has fallen fast in the rankings recently because it has so many Indian students who struggle to find work.

Racism was a real issue in Leipzig. I just found this https://www.couchsurfing.org/group_read.html?gid=200&post=12954729 which is reassuring, but I would suggest asking HHL to connect you to other Indian alumni.

Lancaster is a safer choice, especially if you return to India. But I suggest you focus everything on learning basic German now so you can go into an intermediate intensive course when you arrive before the MBA starts.

That is a hard choice. I'm a big fan of HHL. It's a great programme, with smart students, run by lovely people and very flexible: 12, 15 or 18 months. Leipzig is also home to the Herder Institut, one of the best places to learn German quickly (http://www.uni-leipzig.de/~interdaf/index.html). The German economy is also much more dynamic. Leipzig is an industrial city, unlike Lancaster. I think you'd learn more at HHL both because of the longer time in class, because you'd have fewer Indians and thus more of a learning curve, and because of the exchange semester (which perhaps allows you to hedge your bets - if you don't like Germany you can try another country for a semester).

Career services are weak at Lancaster, and it has a 82% placement rate compated to 95% at HHL. There are very few career events: programmes need them on a regular basis. It's a school for general management rather than for finance or other specialisations, but the school has fallen fast in the rankings recently because it has so many Indian students who struggle to find work.

Racism was a real issue in Leipzig. I just found this https://www.couchsurfing.org/group_read.html?gid=200&post=12954729 which is reassuring, but I would suggest asking HHL to connect you to other Indian alumni.

Lancaster is a safer choice, especially if you return to India. But I suggest you focus everything on learning basic German now so you can go into an intermediate intensive course when you arrive before the MBA starts.
quote
ankit100

Thanx Duncan . I have read a lot of your posts and I find your posts very valuable.
I am more inclined towards HHL and I would like a school where there are less Indians ,but one thing thats making this decision tough for me is the ranking of lancaster ( good ranking everywhere ) as compared to HHL ( unheard in India)
I contacted few Indian alumni of HHL Leipzig and i got mixed response. Infact somewhat weird. Few of them said its good but not that good ( dont know whats that supposed to mean )
I want to work in Europe for few years after my MBA which seems very difficult in UK considering the new visa rules.
Is HHL widely known in Europe and big a factor is german language for securing a job in germany? I asked few friends who are doing masters in west germany and none of them had heard of HHL.
My profile is GMAT 650 , 4 years work ex . Civil Engineer, managing construction works at a power plant. I am still confused between finance and operations. But considering finance or operations can you suggest me some good colleges at my GMAT score ?
PS : I got full scholarship at BI Norwegian . Do you think it compares to lancaster or HHL

Thanx Duncan . I have read a lot of your posts and I find your posts very valuable.
I am more inclined towards HHL and I would like a school where there are less Indians ,but one thing thats making this decision tough for me is the ranking of lancaster ( good ranking everywhere ) as compared to HHL ( unheard in India)
I contacted few Indian alumni of HHL Leipzig and i got mixed response. Infact somewhat weird. Few of them said its good but not that good ( dont know whats that supposed to mean )
I want to work in Europe for few years after my MBA which seems very difficult in UK considering the new visa rules.
Is HHL widely known in Europe and big a factor is german language for securing a job in germany? I asked few friends who are doing masters in west germany and none of them had heard of HHL.
My profile is GMAT 650 , 4 years work ex . Civil Engineer, managing construction works at a power plant. I am still confused between finance and operations. But considering finance or operations can you suggest me some good colleges at my GMAT score ?
PS : I got full scholarship at BI Norwegian . Do you think it compares to lancaster or HHL
quote
Duncan

It sounds like you need to book Skype calls with those Indian alumni and find out more.

Both schools have lots of strong and weak points.
At both:-
Strong: Course Structure and Content

At Lancaster...
Pros:-
-Good faculty for strategy and negotiation (lots of experience in the industry and at teaching)
-university town ..looks great..a good place to be on your own and concentrate
-UK university, thus known well in Commonwealth.
- English speaking country
Cons:
- Career perspectives are weak
- Quite focussed on mindfulness and reflection (perhaps light on the general management toolkit).
- Only eight months of classes
- Only one semester abroad option (highly competitive)
- UK economy

At HHL...
Pros:-
- One of three elite b-schools in Europe's largest market
- 12 to 18 month programme: very good of you want to build a specialisation in
- German economy
- Dozens of semester abroad places
Cons:-
- Not part of a university, thus not well known
- You'll need to learn German.

Which programme did BI give you a scholarship for? The MSc in financial economics?

It sounds like you need to book Skype calls with those Indian alumni and find out more.

Both schools have lots of strong and weak points.
At both:-
Strong: Course Structure and Content

At Lancaster...
Pros:-
-Good faculty for strategy and negotiation (lots of experience in the industry and at teaching)
-university town ..looks great..a good place to be on your own and concentrate
-UK university, thus known well in Commonwealth.
- English speaking country
Cons:
- Career perspectives are weak
- Quite focussed on mindfulness and reflection (perhaps light on the general management toolkit).
- Only eight months of classes
- Only one semester abroad option (highly competitive)
- UK economy

At HHL...
Pros:-
- One of three elite b-schools in Europe's largest market
- 12 to 18 month programme: very good of you want to build a specialisation in
- German economy
- Dozens of semester abroad places
Cons:-
- Not part of a university, thus not well known
- You'll need to learn German.

Which programme did BI give you a scholarship for? The MSc in financial economics?
quote
ankit100

Bi offered me a scholarship in strategic marketing management. My background is of engineering and the kind of work i have done so far is mostly hard core engineering , so I personally feel I need an intensive general management program.
I am leaving a very stable job because i want to move to Europe for atleast few years so it is very important for me to find a job in Europe.
What other options do you think i can look for ? How well does HHL compared to WHU and Mannheim . is it a good idea to try for these colleges next year instead of taking HHL this year. BTW HHL has offered little scholarship so the price is quite affordable. But when i do read about MBA in germany i see a lot of negative comments. May be you can throw some light on it.

Bi offered me a scholarship in strategic marketing management. My background is of engineering and the kind of work i have done so far is mostly hard core engineering , so I personally feel I need an intensive general management program.
I am leaving a very stable job because i want to move to Europe for atleast few years so it is very important for me to find a job in Europe.
What other options do you think i can look for ? How well does HHL compared to WHU and Mannheim . is it a good idea to try for these colleges next year instead of taking HHL this year. BTW HHL has offered little scholarship so the price is quite affordable. But when i do read about MBA in germany i see a lot of negative comments. May be you can throw some light on it.
quote
Duncan

I think you can see from the salaries and the placement rate that HHL is absolutely the equal of WHU and Mannheim with the recruiters who hire MBAs from Germany. All those schools perform as well as St Gallen (when you divide St Gallen's salary by the higher cost of living in Switzerland). ESMT is also performing well.

However, HHL and ESMT have the weakness that they are smaller schools with weaker alumni networks. The English-language MBAs at Mannheim and ESMT are rather new, so they are still building up steam. None of the the German schools has the fame of St Gallen in wider society.

If you're attracted by Germany or Switzerland, I would strongly recommend that you delay a year in order to better research these schools, speak with alumni and clarify your own career goals while intensively learning German. Working part-time but intensively for a year you should be able to get to European level B1 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_European_Framework_of_Reference_for_Languages#Common_reference_levels) before you arrive, then take an intensive B2 course before the start of the MBA, leaving you at C1 by the end of the first year so you can get to C2 while completing your master thesis.

The plus and minus points of Germany are self-evident, and well discussed here but I recommend you speak to alumni. I look a course at HHL, and was dinged by St Gallen, so I'm a little biased ;-)

I think you can see from the salaries and the placement rate that HHL is absolutely the equal of WHU and Mannheim with the recruiters who hire MBAs from Germany. All those schools perform as well as St Gallen (when you divide St Gallen's salary by the higher cost of living in Switzerland). ESMT is also performing well.

However, HHL and ESMT have the weakness that they are smaller schools with weaker alumni networks. The English-language MBAs at Mannheim and ESMT are rather new, so they are still building up steam. None of the the German schools has the fame of St Gallen in wider society.

If you're attracted by Germany or Switzerland, I would strongly recommend that you delay a year in order to better research these schools, speak with alumni and clarify your own career goals while intensively learning German. Working part-time but intensively for a year you should be able to get to European level B1 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_European_Framework_of_Reference_for_Languages#Common_reference_levels) before you arrive, then take an intensive B2 course before the start of the MBA, leaving you at C1 by the end of the first year so you can get to C2 while completing your master thesis.

The plus and minus points of Germany are self-evident, and well discussed here but I recommend you speak to alumni. I look a course at HHL, and was dinged by St Gallen, so I'm a little biased ;-)
quote
ankit100

Thanks a lot Duncan. I think Im running out of time so will most probably go to HHL . I didnt think i Would get into St. Gallen with my score , so did not try there.
Thanx again for your inputs . They were really helpful

Thanks a lot Duncan. I think Im running out of time so will most probably go to HHL . I didnt think i Would get into St. Gallen with my score , so did not try there.
Thanx again for your inputs . They were really helpful
quote
Duncan

Good luck! Start working intensively on your German now!!

Good luck! Start working intensively on your German now!!
quote
ankit100

Another confusion arose today . I got an admit from Cranfield today. How would you rate HHL against Cranfield

Another confusion arose today . I got an admit from Cranfield today. How would you rate HHL against Cranfield
quote
maubia

Ehm.. Cranfield seems a safe bet for a non German.

Ehm.. Cranfield seems a safe bet for a non German.
quote
Duncan

SInce you don't already speak German, I agree.

SInce you don't already speak German, I agree.
quote
ankit100

Yes thats true. But there are few more factors. First of all my work ex is 4 years , so I am not sure if a 1 year course at Cranfield will be enough for me . And the most important factor is that I would like to work in UK or in Europe after my MBA that seems quite difficult with current UK visa rules. How would you compare Cranfield vs HHL if we take out the language factor. I know Cranfield is ranked really high in all different publications. But rankings can be misleading sometimes. I have some friends in London and they havent heard cranfield's name. And no one seems to know HHL even in Germany.
I have heard that if you want to go to consulting than companies consider your GMAT score . How true is it. Some people have advised me with a GMAT of 650 , I wont be able to go to consulting even if I graduate from Cranfield.

Yes thats true. But there are few more factors. First of all my work ex is 4 years , so I am not sure if a 1 year course at Cranfield will be enough for me . And the most important factor is that I would like to work in UK or in Europe after my MBA that seems quite difficult with current UK visa rules. How would you compare Cranfield vs HHL if we take out the language factor. I know Cranfield is ranked really high in all different publications. But rankings can be misleading sometimes. I have some friends in London and they havent heard cranfield's name. And no one seems to know HHL even in Germany.
I have heard that if you want to go to consulting than companies consider your GMAT score . How true is it. Some people have advised me with a GMAT of 650 , I wont be able to go to consulting even if I graduate from Cranfield.
quote
Duncan

First, don't pay attention to the schools your friends have heard of. What matters is: what schools are known to recruiters at the firms you are looking at? In the US, for example, the college wit the highest starting salary is Harvey Mudd College: that is a great college, but not famous. For some time in the UK, the MBA with the highest salary was Ashridge; also not famous. A school that is generally famous is not necessarily strong with employers: the Sorbonne, for example, is very famous but its business school is marginal.

So, the ranking are misleading if you think the ranking reflect fame. But the rankings are not misleading in showing the data which they collect and weight, which might matter more.

Many consulting companies do consider GMAT scores, and that's especially with the case with the pure-play consulting firms like McKinsey, Booz, Bain and BCG. Generally they recruit mainly from the top few schools in each country: LBS and Oxbridge in the UK, for example. HHL is more of a route into those firms' German offices than Cranfield because HHL is one of the two or three leading German schools, while Cranfield is perhaps number six in the UK. However you will find it hard to find work in Germany without fluent German.

That said, for the Big Four and the IT consulting firms, Cranfield is a popular place to recruit.

First, don't pay attention to the schools your friends have heard of. What matters is: what schools are known to recruiters at the firms you are looking at? In the US, for example, the college wit the highest starting salary is Harvey Mudd College: that is a great college, but not famous. For some time in the UK, the MBA with the highest salary was Ashridge; also not famous. A school that is generally famous is not necessarily strong with employers: the Sorbonne, for example, is very famous but its business school is marginal.

So, the ranking are misleading if you think the ranking reflect fame. But the rankings are not misleading in showing the data which they collect and weight, which might matter more.

Many consulting companies do consider GMAT scores, and that's especially with the case with the pure-play consulting firms like McKinsey, Booz, Bain and BCG. Generally they recruit mainly from the top few schools in each country: LBS and Oxbridge in the UK, for example. HHL is more of a route into those firms' German offices than Cranfield because HHL is one of the two or three leading German schools, while Cranfield is perhaps number six in the UK. However you will find it hard to find work in Germany without fluent German.

That said, for the Big Four and the IT consulting firms, Cranfield is a popular place to recruit.
quote
mba hipste...

First off, I'd like to say that Duncan has done a really excellent job on addressing your questions.

How would you compare Cranfield vs HHL if we take out the language factor.

You can't compare the schools without considering language. A lack of fluent German skills will certainly be a detriment if you want to get a job in Germany. It seems like your options are:

1. Go to HHL and put all your free time into learning German.
2. Go to Cranfield and put all your free time into networking and building relationships in the firms you want to work in (because this is how you find jobs.)

Neither is an easy solution but if your English is good I'd think that Cranfield would be the more practical option.

I have heard that if you want to go to consulting than companies consider your GMAT score . How true is it. Some people have advised me with a GMAT of 650 , I wont be able to go to consulting even if I graduate from Cranfield.

I would think that a consulting firm would only use your GMAT score as a selection criteria if you had questionable deficiencies elsewhere (low work experience, poor English skills, etc.)

First off, I'd like to say that Duncan has done a really excellent job on addressing your questions.

<blockquote>How would you compare Cranfield vs HHL if we take out the language factor.</blockquote>
You can't compare the schools without considering language. A lack of fluent German skills will certainly be a detriment if you want to get a job in Germany. It seems like your options are:

1. Go to HHL and put all your free time into learning German.
2. Go to Cranfield and put all your free time into networking and building relationships in the firms you want to work in (because this is how you find jobs.)

Neither is an easy solution but if your English is good I'd think that Cranfield would be the more practical option.

<blockquote>I have heard that if you want to go to consulting than companies consider your GMAT score . How true is it. Some people have advised me with a GMAT of 650 , I wont be able to go to consulting even if I graduate from Cranfield. </blockquote>
I would think that a consulting firm would only use your GMAT score as a selection criteria if you had questionable deficiencies elsewhere (low work experience, poor English skills, etc.)
quote

Hello Duncan, URGENT URGENT...please advise me on taking up an MBA course in Germany. I am appearing for my GMAT on 6th August. I have already secured a place in Pforzheim Hochschule, Hochschule Bremen, Munich Business School. HHL, WHU and EURUNI are also interested in my profile. Please advise me which is the best option for doing MBA. I am a computer engineer with five years of management experience in defense services.

I think you can see from the salaries and the placement rate that HHL is absolutely the equal of WHU and Mannheim with the recruiters who hire MBAs from Germany. All those schools perform as well as St Gallen (when you divide St Gallen's salary by the higher cost of living in Switzerland). ESMT is also performing well.

However, HHL and ESMT have the weakness that they are smaller schools with weaker alumni networks. The English-language MBAs at Mannheim and ESMT are rather new, so they are still building up steam. None of the the German schools has the fame of St Gallen in wider society.

If you're attracted by Germany or Switzerland, I would strongly recommend that you delay a year in order to better research these schools, speak with alumni and clarify your own career goals while intensively learning German. Working part-time but intensively for a year you should be able to get to European level B1 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_European_Framework_of_Reference_for_Languages#Common_reference_levels) before you arrive, then take an intensive B2 course before the start of the MBA, leaving you at C1 by the end of the first year so you can get to C2 while completing your master thesis.

The plus and minus points of Germany are self-evident, and well discussed here but I recommend you speak to alumni. I look a course at HHL, and was dinged by St Gallen, so I'm a little biased ;-)

Hello Duncan, URGENT URGENT...please advise me on taking up an MBA course in Germany. I am appearing for my GMAT on 6th August. I have already secured a place in Pforzheim Hochschule, Hochschule Bremen, Munich Business School. HHL, WHU and EURUNI are also interested in my profile. Please advise me which is the best option for doing MBA. I am a computer engineer with five years of management experience in defense services. <blockquote>I think you can see from the salaries and the placement rate that HHL is absolutely the equal of WHU and Mannheim with the recruiters who hire MBAs from Germany. All those schools perform as well as St Gallen (when you divide St Gallen's salary by the higher cost of living in Switzerland). ESMT is also performing well.

However, HHL and ESMT have the weakness that they are smaller schools with weaker alumni networks. The English-language MBAs at Mannheim and ESMT are rather new, so they are still building up steam. None of the the German schools has the fame of St Gallen in wider society.

If you're attracted by Germany or Switzerland, I would strongly recommend that you delay a year in order to better research these schools, speak with alumni and clarify your own career goals while intensively learning German. Working part-time but intensively for a year you should be able to get to European level B1 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_European_Framework_of_Reference_for_Languages#Common_reference_levels) before you arrive, then take an intensive B2 course before the start of the MBA, leaving you at C1 by the end of the first year so you can get to C2 while completing your master thesis.

The plus and minus points of Germany are self-evident, and well discussed here but I recommend you speak to alumni. I look a course at HHL, and was dinged by St Gallen, so I'm a little biased ;-)</blockquote>
quote
Duncan

How good is your German, and what are your career goals?

The Pforzheim Hochschule is much, much, better than Hochschule Bremen, Munich Business School, or EURUNI so take those last three out of consideration.

HHL and WHU are even better still. Take the offer if either of them accept you.

How good is your German, and what are your career goals?

The Pforzheim Hochschule is much, much, better than Hochschule Bremen, Munich Business School, or EURUNI so take those last three out of consideration.

HHL and WHU are even better still. Take the offer if either of them accept you.
quote

I have already done A1 and have stayed in Germany for 4 months and finished A2...I plan to take up a job in some MNC and permanently settle in Germany. I may think of doing some business after 5 years from now..

How good is your German, and what are your career goals?

The Pforzheim Hochschule is much, much, better than Hochschule Bremen, Munich Business School, or EURUNI so take those last three out of consideration.

HHL and WHU are every better still. Take the offer if either of them accept you.

I have already done A1 and have stayed in Germany for 4 months and finished A2...I plan to take up a job in some MNC and permanently settle in Germany. I may think of doing some business after 5 years from now..<blockquote>How good is your German, and what are your career goals?

The Pforzheim Hochschule is much, much, better than Hochschule Bremen, Munich Business School, or EURUNI so take those last three out of consideration.

HHL and WHU are every better still. Take the offer if either of them accept you.</blockquote>
quote
Duncan

Excellent. Work hard on your German!

Best wishes from sunny Munich!

Excellent. Work hard on your German!

Best wishes from sunny Munich!
quote

So which college do you recommend WHU or HHL ??

So which college do you recommend WHU or HHL ??
quote
Duncan

They are both top schools, really world-class. WHU is probably better than HHL for most students.

They are both top schools, really world-class. WHU is probably better than HHL for most students.
quote

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