UK or France


The issue  with UK is, I got to heard from many people that chances of getting job there is very less. I don't know other European language but the good thing is I m fond of  to learn new 

languages so I can manage to learn any European language. So, which language as per you should I start to learn?
I don't have any specific country in my mind where I want to work because I would love to work in any good European country whether it's a UK, Ireland, France or Germany. 

The issue&nbsp; with UK is, I got to heard from many people that chances of getting job there is very less. I don't know other European language but the good thing is I m fond of&nbsp; to learn new&nbsp;<br><br>languages so I can manage to learn any European language. So, which language as per you should I start to learn?<br>I don't have any specific country in my mind where I want to work because I would love to work in any good European country whether it's a UK, Ireland, France or Germany.&nbsp;<br><br>
quote
Duncan

Many people think that employment rates are lower in the UK than in other countries, but the data show the reality. I made a chart and put it in dropbox at: https://bit.ly/MBAemploy

Employment rates for MBAs are, on average, over 90% only in the countries where there are either very few international students (China, India) or where international students tend to come from former colonies with the same mother tongue (Spain, Portugal). 

In other countries, the average employment rate is between 83% and 90%, which is still quite good. The difference is largely explained by the percentage of international students, since they are harder to place. 

However, top 100 schools in some countries on average over-perform. The trend line on that chart spotlights them: France, Italy, the Netherlands and the UK.  Of course, many international students in France already speak French, and Italy and Netherlands' scores reflects the fact that only one excellent school is represented in those countries: Bocconi and RSM. In that context, the nine UK schools look attractive. 

PS Some countries under-perform, most obviously the chart highlights the USA, but also Australia, Canada, Ireland, and South Korea.

[Edited by Duncan on Jul 01, 2020]

Many people think that employment rates are lower in the UK than in other countries, but the data show the reality. I made a chart and put it in dropbox at:&nbsp;https://bit.ly/MBAemploy<br><br>Employment rates for MBAs are, on average, over 90% only in the countries where there are either very few international students (China, India) or where international students tend to come from former colonies with the same mother tongue (Spain, Portugal).&nbsp;<br><br>In other countries, the average employment rate is between 83% and 90%, which is still quite good. The difference is largely explained by the percentage of international students, since they are harder to place.&nbsp;<br><br>However, top 100 schools in some countries on average over-perform. The trend line on that chart spotlights them: France, Italy, the Netherlands and the UK.&nbsp; Of course, many international students in France already speak French, and Italy and Netherlands' scores reflects the fact that only one excellent school is represented in those countries: Bocconi and RSM. In that context, the nine UK schools look attractive.&nbsp;<br><br>PS Some countries under-perform, most obviously the chart highlights the USA, but also Australia, Canada, Ireland, and South Korea.
quote
Duncan

Also see: Best MBAs for international students' placement http://www.find-mba.com/board/41143

Also see: Best MBAs for international students' placement&nbsp;<a href="https://www.find-mba.com/board/41143" rel="nofollow" style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">http://www.find-mba.com/board/41143</a>
quote
Kajal K

Hey Duncan 
Would you say the same for M.Sc programmes too? I read your posts on the rankings but they are particularly for MIM or MBA. 

I have offers from Warwick, WMG for their e-business management course and emlyon for their M.Sc in Digital Marketing and Data Science. While emlyon seems wins because the programme is better and is cost effective, Warwick seems to have a better reputation and is in an English-speaking country. Both countries will allow me to work for 2 years after grad. 

I have 5 years of experience in digital marketing and want to advance to a leadership role with this degree. I don't speak French for now. 



Many people think that employment rates are lower in the UK than in other countries, but the data show the reality. I made a chart and put it in dropbox at: https://bit.ly/MBAemploy

Employment rates for MBAs are, on average, over 90% only in the countries where there are either very few international students (China, India) or where international students tend to come from former colonies with the same mother tongue (Spain, Portugal). 

In other countries, the average employment rate is between 83% and 90%, which is still quite good. The difference is largely explained by the percentage of international students, since they are harder to place. 

However, top 100 schools in some countries on average over-perform. The trend line on that chart spotlights them: France, Italy, the Netherlands and the UK.  Of course, many international students in France already speak French, and Italy and Netherlands' scores reflects the fact that only one excellent school is represented in those countries: Bocconi and RSM. In that context, the nine UK schools look attractive. 

PS Some countries under-perform, most obviously the chart highlights the USA, but also Australia, Canada, Ireland, and South Korea.

[Edited by Kajal K on Jul 02, 2020]

Hey Duncan&nbsp;<br>Would you say the same for M.Sc programmes too? I read your posts on the rankings but they are particularly for MIM or MBA.&nbsp;<br><br>I have offers from Warwick, WMG for their e-business management course and emlyon for their M.Sc in Digital Marketing and Data Science. While emlyon seems wins because the programme is better and is cost effective, Warwick seems to have a better reputation and is in an English-speaking country. Both countries will allow me to work for 2 years after grad.&nbsp;<br><br>I have 5 years of experience in digital marketing and want to advance to a leadership role with this degree. I don't speak French for now.&nbsp;<br><br><br><br>[quote]Many people think that employment rates are lower in the UK than in other countries, but the data show the reality. I made a chart and put it in dropbox at:&nbsp;https://bit.ly/MBAemploy<br><br>Employment rates for MBAs are, on average, over 90% only in the countries where there are either very few international students (China, India) or where international students tend to come from former colonies with the same mother tongue (Spain, Portugal).&nbsp;<br><br>In other countries, the average employment rate is between 83% and 90%, which is still quite good. The difference is largely explained by the percentage of international students, since they are harder to place.&nbsp;<br><br>However, top 100 schools in some countries on average over-perform. The trend line on that chart spotlights them: France, Italy, the Netherlands and the UK.&nbsp; Of course, many international students in France already speak French, and Italy and Netherlands' scores reflects the fact that only one excellent school is represented in those countries: Bocconi and RSM. In that context, the nine UK schools look attractive.&nbsp;<br><br>PS Some countries under-perform, most obviously the chart highlights the USA, but also Australia, Canada, Ireland, and South Korea. [/quote]
quote
Duncan

You can download the MiM data and do the same analysis I did for the MBAs above. I imagine it will be similar,  but with different  numbers. 

Warwick Business School has a great reputation  but WMG is not that. Search the board for WMG. Their courses are modular buffets with no cohort, aimed at part time students who don't need careers support or soft skills. Most weeks in term time you will have nothing scheduled, and there is no way to avoid duplication between modules. It should not be your only option in the UK. 



PS Why not take a MiM, instead of these programmes at Lyon and Warwick? 

[Edited by Duncan on Jul 02, 2020]

You can download the MiM data and do the same analysis I did for the MBAs above. I imagine it will be similar,&nbsp; but with different&nbsp; numbers.&nbsp;<br><br>Warwick Business School has a great reputation&nbsp; but WMG is not that. Search the board for WMG. Their courses are modular buffets with no cohort, aimed at part time students who don't need careers support or soft skills. Most weeks in term time you will have nothing scheduled, and there is no way to avoid duplication between modules. It should not be your only option in the UK.&nbsp;<br><br><br><br>PS Why not take a MiM, instead of these programmes at Lyon and Warwick?&nbsp;
quote
Duncan

I don't understand what sort of digital marketing work you can do in Lyon. That requires language skills and acculturation.  

See the post linked on my profile page called Do you need to learn the local language  

[Edited by Duncan on Jul 02, 2020]

I don't understand what sort of digital marketing work you can do in Lyon. That requires language skills and acculturation.&nbsp;&nbsp;<br><br>See the post linked on my profile page called Do you need to learn the local language&nbsp;&nbsp;
quote
Duncan

Also read the post linked on my profile page about MSc and MiM degrees  

[Edited by Duncan on Jul 02, 2020]

Also read the post linked on my profile page about MSc and MiM degrees&nbsp;&nbsp;
quote
Kajal K

Why would you say that there is no way to avoid duplication of modules at WMG? I'm not sure I understood correctly. I did compare the total hours per module with another top UK school since I had the same doubt myself. The number of hours at WMG are higher. 

A potential employer will weigh Warwick as a brand rather than WMG. Is that not correct? 

MiM degree usually have students who are fresh out of college and are generic in nature. I wanted to pick something that focuses on the digital environment and marketing. 



The emlyon course is in Paris. Can it not be used to gain opportunities in Paris based MNCs or English speaking countries like Luxembourg and Ireland? The thing with this course is the teaching quality and modules are very strong. There are very few other courses that focus on data science and marketing together.

Thank you so much for taking the time to advise. I have been reading all your posts and answers here. They have been helpful. 

Why would you say that there is no way to avoid duplication of modules at WMG? I'm not sure I understood correctly. I did compare the total hours per module with another top UK school since I had the same doubt myself. The number of hours at WMG are higher.&nbsp;<br><br>A potential employer will weigh Warwick as a brand rather than WMG. Is that not correct?&nbsp;<br><br>MiM degree usually have students who are fresh out of college and are generic in nature. I wanted to pick something that focuses on the digital environment and marketing.&nbsp;<br><br><br><br>The emlyon course is in Paris. Can it not be used to gain opportunities in Paris based MNCs or English speaking countries like Luxembourg and Ireland? The thing with this course is the teaching quality and modules are very strong. There are very few other courses that focus on data science and marketing together.<br><br>Thank you so much for taking the time to advise. I have been reading all your posts and answers here. They have been helpful.&nbsp;
quote
StuartHE

I also looked at WMG. Each module is part of multiple degrees. Students take the modules in any order. So, redundancies cannot be removed between the modules. That doesn't mean you take the same modules again, but that some content will be repeated.

Generally, a WMG MSc will involve 11 weeks on campus. Personally, I would rather have 2 or 3 hours a weekday in term time than have one week a month, when I can't remember anything. If you have seen something saying that WMG students study longer, this must include an imaginary number for time at home before and after the module.

The business school has an alumni network, better students and specialised careers  support, as well as events for employers. WMG doesn't have that. SO the opportunities are different. 

Europe has national labour markets. What Paris MNCs hire people that don't speak French? The Paris campus has limited support, and no careers advisors. If you find work, it will be your own effort. If you want to be in Ireland or Luxenbourg, study there. Are there even any full-time faculty at the Paris campus?

I also looked at WMG. Each module is part of multiple degrees. Students take the modules in any order. So, redundancies cannot be removed between the modules. That doesn't mean you take the same modules again, but that some content will be repeated.<br><br>Generally, a WMG MSc will involve 11 weeks on campus. Personally, I would rather have 2 or 3 hours a weekday in term time than have one week a month, when I can't remember anything. If you have seen something saying that WMG students study longer, this must include an imaginary number for time at home before and after the module.<br><br>The business school has an alumni network, better students and specialised careers&nbsp; support, as well as events for employers. WMG doesn't have that. SO the opportunities are different.&nbsp;<br><br>Europe has national labour markets. What Paris MNCs hire people that don't speak French? The Paris campus has limited support, and no careers advisors. If you find work, it will be your own effort. If you want to be in Ireland or Luxenbourg, study there. Are there even any full-time faculty at the Paris campus?
quote
Kajal K

I also looked at WMG. Each module is part of multiple degrees. Students take the modules in any order. So, redundancies cannot be removed between the modules. That doesn't mean you take the same modules again, but that some content will be repeated.

Generally, a WMG MSc will involve 11 weeks on campus. Personally, I would rather have 2 or 3 hours a weekday in term time than have one week a month, when I can't remember anything. If you have seen something saying that WMG students study longer, this must include an imaginary number for time at home before and after the module.

The business school has an alumni network, better students and specialised careers  support, as well as events for employers. WMG doesn't have that. SO the opportunities are different. 

Europe has national labour markets. What Paris MNCs hire people that don't speak French? The Paris campus has limited support, and no careers advisors. If you find work, it will be your own effort. If you want to be in Ireland or Luxenbourg, study there. Are there even any full-time faculty at the Paris campus?

........................... 
Thanks for the perspective Stuart. I did research the module overlap at WMG. Since this course is unique only two of my modules overlap with other degrees. No, the number of hours don't include self study. I got the data from the official website. There is another course I am considering: the M.sc in Marketing and Business Analytics at the University of Edinburgh Business School: https://www.business-school.ed.ac.uk/msc/marketing-business-analysis 

What would you say about their career support and employer reputation within and outside the UK? 

[quote]I also looked at WMG. Each module is part of multiple degrees. Students take the modules in any order. So, redundancies cannot be removed between the modules. That doesn't mean you take the same modules again, but that some content will be repeated.<br><br>Generally, a WMG MSc will involve 11 weeks on campus. Personally, I would rather have 2 or 3 hours a weekday in term time than have one week a month, when I can't remember anything. If you have seen something saying that WMG students study longer, this must include an imaginary number for time at home before and after the module.<br><br>The business school has an alumni network, better students and specialised careers&nbsp; support, as well as events for employers. WMG doesn't have that. SO the opportunities are different.&nbsp;<br><br>Europe has national labour markets. What Paris MNCs hire people that don't speak French? The Paris campus has limited support, and no careers advisors. If you find work, it will be your own effort. If you want to be in Ireland or Luxenbourg, study there. Are there even any full-time faculty at the Paris campus? [/quote]<br>...........................&nbsp;<br>Thanks for the perspective Stuart. I did research the module overlap at WMG. Since this course is unique only two of my modules overlap with other degrees. No, the number of hours don't include self study. I got the data from the official website. There is another course I am considering: the M.sc in Marketing and Business Analytics at the University of Edinburgh Business School: https://www.business-school.ed.ac.uk/msc/marketing-business-analysis&nbsp;<br><br>What would you say about their career support and employer reputation within and outside the UK?&nbsp;
quote
Kajal K

If WMG should not be my only option, what would you say about the M. SC in Marketing and Business Analysis at Uni of Edinburgh Business School? In terms of career support and employer reputation. 





You can download the MiM data and do the same analysis I did for the MBAs above. I imagine it will be similar,  but with different  numbers. 

Warwick Business School has a great reputation  but WMG is not that. Search the board for WMG. Their courses are modular buffets with no cohort, aimed at part time students who don't need careers support or soft skills. Most weeks in term time you will have nothing scheduled, and there is no way to avoid duplication between modules. It should not be your only option in the UK. 



PS Why not take a MiM, instead of these programmes at Lyon and Warwick? 

If WMG should not be my only option, what would you say about the M. SC in Marketing and Business Analysis at Uni of Edinburgh Business School? In terms of career support and employer reputation.&nbsp;<br><br><br><br><br><br>[quote]You can download the MiM data and do the same analysis I did for the MBAs above. I imagine it will be similar,&nbsp; but with different&nbsp; numbers.&nbsp;<br><br>Warwick Business School has a great reputation&nbsp; but WMG is not that. Search the board for WMG. Their courses are modular buffets with no cohort, aimed at part time students who don't need careers support or soft skills. Most weeks in term time you will have nothing scheduled, and there is no way to avoid duplication between modules. It should not be your only option in the UK.&nbsp;<br><br><br><br>PS Why not take a MiM, instead of these programmes at Lyon and Warwick?&nbsp; [/quote]
quote
Duncan

That's a much better option, since it's in a business school with a dedicated careers team and a defined cohort, as well as being in one of the world's top 20 universities. Because of the better balances (quant/qual; hard/soft skills) a ranked MiM or MiF will have better outcomes, other things being equal.

[Edited by Duncan on Jul 03, 2020]

That's a much better option, since it's in a business school with a dedicated careers team and a defined cohort, as well as being in one of the world's top 20 universities. Because of the better balances (quant/qual; hard/soft skills) a ranked MiM or MiF will have better outcomes, other things being equal.<br>
quote
Duncan

Also consider two posts listed on my profile page: the on on the best MScs, which I mentioned, and the thread on learning the local language. 

[Edited by Duncan on Jul 03, 2020]

Also consider two posts listed on my profile page: the on on the best MScs, which I mentioned, and the thread on learning the local language.&nbsp;<br><br>
quote
Kajal K

Ha! I've read almost all the links on your profile. And I recommend them to everyone on FindMBA. Cheers! 

Don't you think studying in Scotland is a huge disadvantage since all the jobs are in London? An employer will consider England first after all. 




Also consider two posts listed on my profile page: the on on the best MScs, which I mentioned, and the thread on learning the local language. 

Ha! I've read almost all the links on your profile. And I recommend them to everyone on FindMBA. Cheers!&nbsp;<br><br>Don't you think studying in Scotland is a huge disadvantage since all the jobs are in London? An employer will consider England first after all.&nbsp;<br><br><br><br><br>[quote]Also consider two posts listed on my profile page: the on on the best MScs, which I mentioned, and the thread on learning the local language.&nbsp;<br><br> [/quote]
quote
Duncan

All the jobs are in London? You think everyone outside London has retired? 

Look at the data: placement rates are pretty even across the country. Universities are in population centres, and they are distributed  more or less in line with the population, excluding London. London has more supply and a competitive labour market.

It's a very small island. Most people in the main population belt from Greater Manchester and West Yorkshire south to London or in the Scottish central belt. It's easy to job hunt in other places. 

All the jobs are in London? You think everyone outside London has retired?&nbsp;<br><br>Look at the data: placement rates are pretty even across the country. Universities are in population centres, and they are distributed&nbsp; more or less in line with the population, excluding London. London has more supply and a competitive labour market.<br><br>It's a very small island. Most people in the main population belt from Greater Manchester and West Yorkshire south to London or in the Scottish central belt. It's easy to job hunt in other places.&nbsp;
quote
laurie


Don't you think studying in Scotland is a huge disadvantage since all the jobs are in London? An employer will consider England first after all. 

I mean, although there are quite a few jobs in London, it's by no means the only place where people get hired. Even in banking / finance. 

[quote]<br>Don't you think studying in Scotland is a huge disadvantage since all the jobs are in London? An employer will consider England first after all.&nbsp;<br>[/quote]<br>I mean, although there are quite a few jobs in London, it's by no means the only place where people get hired. Even in banking / finance.&nbsp;
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"For your best results in landing a job in the UK after graduating, look at the ranked business schools: LBS, Imperial, Warwick, Cass, etc.


Yes, great business schools









[Edited by FolkWalker on Oct 01, 2020]

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<div><br>
</div><div>"For your best results in landing a job in the UK after graduating, look at the ranked business schools: LBS, Imperial, Warwick, Cass, etc.<br>
"</div>&nbsp;<br>Yes, great business schools<div><br>
</div><div><br><div><br></div><div><div><br>
</div><div><br><div><br>
</div><div><br></div></div></div></div>
quote

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