ST Gallen vs ESMT


Hey peeps,

I want to ask a standard question, which school is better.

I have compared my understanding and rankings and i found that both HSG and ESMT are at par in terms of everything. The only difference is cost of living and the post placement visa in Germany.

Both are new and gaining sufficient traction in the MBA world. However, both are not yet top class. I am confused between which one to choose as i am a NON EU without German knowledge, they both offer the same challenge.

I dont yet know which industry i want to go after MBA but i want this realization during MBA.

I talked to Alumni of both colleges and they give mixed responses of Good vs Bad(language challenges).

any suggestions!!
Hey peeps,

I want to ask a standard question, which school is better.

I have compared my understanding and rankings and i found that both HSG and ESMT are at par in terms of everything. The only difference is cost of living and the post placement visa in Germany.

Both are new and gaining sufficient traction in the MBA world. However, both are not yet top class. I am confused between which one to choose as i am a NON EU without German knowledge, they both offer the same challenge.

I dont yet know which industry i want to go after MBA but i want this realization during MBA.

I talked to Alumni of both colleges and they give mixed responses of Good vs Bad(language challenges).

any suggestions!!
quote
Duncan
HSG dates from the 19th century! It is not new. Switzerland is easier than Germany but still useless without German
HSG dates from the 19th century! It is not new. Switzerland is easier than Germany but still useless without German
quote
Hi Duncan, Thanks for the reply. Appreciate it. Also i would like to thank you for constantly replying and helping people with your comments on various threads.

Coming to this point the HSG MBA is very recent and there are a lot of people who have got jobs in Germany and Switzerland after the MBA, so does that become such a big criteria to not to pursue a good school.

And that challenge will also exist in ESMT as it will also need german.
Hi Duncan, Thanks for the reply. Appreciate it. Also i would like to thank you for constantly replying and helping people with your comments on various threads.

Coming to this point the HSG MBA is very recent and there are a lot of people who have got jobs in Germany and Switzerland after the MBA, so does that become such a big criteria to not to pursue a good school.

And that challenge will also exist in ESMT as it will also need german.
quote
Duncan
The weak market for English-speaking MBAs in German is not a subjective weakness of the business schools which will erode after time. It is an objective reality of the German-speaking region that the language of business is German. Overwhelmingly, students who find work in these programmes will speak German, and will be either German or will come from (and return to) companies or countries that have a major trading partner in the German-speaking region.

There are professional roles for Indians in Germany, and they are (more than anything else) often research and technology roles for IIT graduates. MBAs often go into client- and customer-facing roles, and there the need to speak German in profound. I really think the number of openings for people who don't have to speak German is small, and even those are often taken by German speakers since there are more of them and the language is never a disadvantage.

If you want to work in mainland Europe, either become a world-class technical expert in something (which you will not get from a one year MBA) or learn German.
The weak market for English-speaking MBAs in German is not a subjective weakness of the business schools which will erode after time. It is an objective reality of the German-speaking region that the language of business is German. Overwhelmingly, students who find work in these programmes will speak German, and will be either German or will come from (and return to) companies or countries that have a major trading partner in the German-speaking region.

There are professional roles for Indians in Germany, and they are (more than anything else) often research and technology roles for IIT graduates. MBAs often go into client- and customer-facing roles, and there the need to speak German in profound. I really think the number of openings for people who don't have to speak German is small, and even those are often taken by German speakers since there are more of them and the language is never a disadvantage.

If you want to work in mainland Europe, either become a world-class technical expert in something (which you will not get from a one year MBA) or learn German.
quote
MBAmate
I agree. Do not undermine the importance of language. Germany has a lot of opportunities . however, language competency ( not just spoken , but also business usability of language and written ability ) can open up a number of doors. For HR execs , language skills can be a filter for applications. Having said that it is not that difficult as it might look like, to gain competency in the language. If you do at least up to A2 level before coming and keep developing on the same in a year you can surely reach B2 and in after completion any way you can have 18 more months job seeking visa during which you can take intensive courses to learn for more.
I agree. Do not undermine the importance of language. Germany has a lot of opportunities . however, language competency ( not just spoken , but also business usability of language and written ability ) can open up a number of doors. For HR execs , language skills can be a filter for applications. Having said that it is not that difficult as it might look like, to gain competency in the language. If you do at least up to A2 level before coming and keep developing on the same in a year you can surely reach B2 and in after completion any way you can have 18 more months job seeking visa during which you can take intensive courses to learn for more.
quote
Duncan
But imagine how much more effective it would be to speak German fluently before starting the course: Able to better network with the Germans, able to apply for German speaking roles when firma come to the school, being able to interview in German.... Why plan to do that after the course?
But imagine how much more effective it would be to speak German fluently before starting the course: Able to better network with the Germans, able to apply for German speaking roles when firma come to the school, being able to interview in German.... Why plan to do that after the course?
quote
Razors Edg...
It's also worth noting that St. Gallen has great international mobility stats (ranked number 3 in the FT currently in this sense.)

And the school is not just placing in German-language positions:

http://www.mba.unisg.ch/career-services/employment-report.php

60 percent of the 2014 placements are with firms where English is the only language spoken. But since 36 percent of the placements are outside of the EU, my guess is that many of these positions are in English-speaking countries, rather than the DACH region.
It's also worth noting that St. Gallen has great international mobility stats (ranked number 3 in the FT currently in this sense.)

And the school is not just placing in German-language positions:

http://www.mba.unisg.ch/career-services/employment-report.php

60 percent of the 2014 placements are with firms where English is the only language spoken. But since 36 percent of the placements are outside of the EU, my guess is that many of these positions are in English-speaking countries, rather than the DACH region.
quote
Hmm.... I am surprised to hear about the good opportunities in Germany. I come from Germany (10+ years experience abroad, 44 years old), and I find it very difficult to find a job. Maybe I got the wrong sector. But German companies are very specific about the job specs, so when you miss an element in the job specs you are not considered. How willing are German companies to sponsor the Blue Card?

I should add that when you work in a larger company in Germany that is international your working language might be English. Should you work in a department that deals with the affiliates, local offices, distributors, foreign companies, etc., the business language will be English.

For example, the working language of SAP in Germany is English.

[Edited by G11nSpecalist on Aug 03, 2015]

Hmm.... I am surprised to hear about the good opportunities in Germany. I come from Germany (10+ years experience abroad, 44 years old), and I find it very difficult to find a job. Maybe I got the wrong sector. But German companies are very specific about the job specs, so when you miss an element in the job specs you are not considered. How willing are German companies to sponsor the Blue Card?

I should add that when you work in a larger company in Germany that is international your working language might be English. Should you work in a department that deals with the affiliates, local offices, distributors, foreign companies, etc., the business language will be English.

For example, the working language of SAP in Germany is English.
quote
Duncan
Honestly, English as the working language does not mean German is not spoken or a key asset. Look at the leadership of SAP.
Honestly, English as the working language does not mean German is not spoken or a key asset. Look at the leadership of SAP.
quote
Duncan
The idea that "60 percent of the 2014 placements are with firms where English is the only language spoken." seems quite implausible.
The idea that "60 percent of the 2014 placements are with firms where English is the only language spoken." seems quite implausible.
quote
Duncan, it is true that when English is the working language, German will still be spoken, but at least you could get by. German is not an easy language to learn. And I have seen that German companies want more and more English skills.

Years ago, people asked for Microsoft Office skills which is now a given. You can't apply for a job in an office and not know Microsoft Word. I still put Microsoft Office skills in my resume (CV), but technically no need to do that. And I believe the same will happen with English in Germany, it will be part of your education. -- Maybe not now, but 10 years from now.
Duncan, it is true that when English is the working language, German will still be spoken, but at least you could get by. German is not an easy language to learn. And I have seen that German companies want more and more English skills.

Years ago, people asked for Microsoft Office skills which is now a given. You can't apply for a job in an office and not know Microsoft Word. I still put Microsoft Office skills in my resume (CV), but technically no need to do that. And I believe the same will happen with English in Germany, it will be part of your education. -- Maybe not now, but 10 years from now.
quote
Duncan
Okay, so if German is still spoken then it's not the case that "English is the only language spoken." Indeed, huge multinationals often have a policy of favouring English-speaking candidates. Siemens says that English is its corporate language but, seriously, how many monoglot English-speakers are really hired. German is a *very* easy language learn to learn compared with most of the other languages in the world. It is way easier than an MBA.
Okay, so if German is still spoken then it's not the case that "English is the only language spoken." Indeed, huge multinationals often have a policy of favouring English-speaking candidates. Siemens says that English is its corporate language but, seriously, how many monoglot English-speakers are really hired. German is a *very* easy language learn to learn compared with most of the other languages in the world. It is way easier than an MBA.
quote
I checked that Berlin is growing in startup scene too but dont know how long will it continue and will it be as big as everyone expects it to be. I am really confused to choose between ESMT and ST Gallen as both require German. But with my GMAT score i don't see other possibilities.
I checked that Berlin is growing in startup scene too but dont know how long will it continue and will it be as big as everyone expects it to be. I am really confused to choose between ESMT and ST Gallen as both require German. But with my GMAT score i don't see other possibilities.
quote
Duncan
Why are you so focussed on the German-speaking region, given that you don't speak German at a professional level? If Germany is your focus, then learn German before your MBA. If it is not, look at Best schools for international students' placement http://www.find-mba.com/board/41143
Why are you so focussed on the German-speaking region, given that you don't speak German at a professional level? If Germany is your focus, then learn German before your MBA. If it is not, look at Best schools for international students' placement http://www.find-mba.com/board/41143
quote
Why i am not trying other colleges is that these 2 fit in my GMAT score and Expereince range. And to be honest Duncan, i have received reply from ESMT which is positive but i am skeptical now to join. I have 9 + years of experience and a very less school qualify for me in that criteria. I really like ESMT and have good feeling about the school and but with my experience i think a school with good ALumini network will be beneficial and a known school too. Hence i am thinking strongly on St Gallen. I want to do a strong General Management course and confusion between ESMT vs St Gallen persists.
Why i am not trying other colleges is that these 2 fit in my GMAT score and Expereince range. And to be honest Duncan, i have received reply from ESMT which is positive but i am skeptical now to join. I have 9 + years of experience and a very less school qualify for me in that criteria. I really like ESMT and have good feeling about the school and but with my experience i think a school with good ALumini network will be beneficial and a known school too. Hence i am thinking strongly on St Gallen. I want to do a strong General Management course and confusion between ESMT vs St Gallen persists.
quote
Duncan
Are there not colleges in every country that meet your GMAT score and experience range?

HSG has a great alumni network in the German-speaking region but, if you don't speak German, how beneficial can that network be?

Other things being equal, the HSG has more of a general management focus.
Are there not colleges in every country that meet your GMAT score and experience range?

HSG has a great alumni network in the German-speaking region but, if you don't speak German, how beneficial can that network be?

Other things being equal, the HSG has more of a general management focus.
quote
Hi Duncan,
Could you please shed some light on how truly global the network and/or placements are at St.Gallen? I have received a positive reply from them on my profile, but my only concern is, I am about to start with A2 in French and am picking up the language really well.
So is an MBA at St.Gallen a bad choice? If they are a ranked B-school in Europe and are in Switzerland, do you think they'd have some credence in the French speaking part of Switzerland? It's just that I don't want to stop at A1 in French, and end up learning 2 languages to just the basic level.
So I'm really going to have to make a choice between St.Gallen and EDHEC.
Please advise.

Regards,
Mallika
Hi Duncan,
Could you please shed some light on how truly global the network and/or placements are at St.Gallen? I have received a positive reply from them on my profile, but my only concern is, I am about to start with A2 in French and am picking up the language really well.
So is an MBA at St.Gallen a bad choice? If they are a ranked B-school in Europe and are in Switzerland, do you think they'd have some credence in the French speaking part of Switzerland? It's just that I don't want to stop at A1 in French, and end up learning 2 languages to just the basic level.
So I'm really going to have to make a choice between St.Gallen and EDHEC.
Please advise.

Regards,
Mallika
quote
Duncan
Obviously HSG is not really a global school, even if it offers a world class education. It's profoundly rooted in the German-speaking part of the country -- just look at the map. If HSG have offered you a place then I would take that seriously as a sign that they think they can place you but to be honest you will need to focus on German. At the end of your MBA you will be well above A1 German.
Obviously HSG is not really a global school, even if it offers a world class education. It's profoundly rooted in the German-speaking part of the country -- just look at the map. If HSG have offered you a place then I would take that seriously as a sign that they think they can place you but to be honest you will need to focus on German. At the end of your MBA you will be well above A1 German.
quote
Obviously HSG is not really a global school, even if it offers a world class education. It's profoundly rooted in the German-speaking part of the country -- just look at the map. If HSG have offered you a place then I would take that seriously as a sign that they think they can place you but to be honest you will need to focus on German. At the end of your MBA you will be well above A1 German.


So Duncan 2 things here-
1) If I choose Gallen but get there with A2 French, and like you say go beyond German A1 during the course year, you say I have a good chance of landing post MBA roles..?
2) Given the current situation in France and that EDHEC was my first choice, should I look at Gallen now or EDHEC..?
I just thought Gallen ranks much above EDHEC.
Please advise.
Thanks,
Mallika
[quote]Obviously HSG is not really a global school, even if it offers a world class education. It's profoundly rooted in the German-speaking part of the country -- just look at the map. If HSG have offered you a place then I would take that seriously as a sign that they think they can place you but to be honest you will need to focus on German. At the end of your MBA you will be well above A1 German. [/quote]

So Duncan 2 things here-
1) If I choose Gallen but get there with A2 French, and like you say go beyond German A1 during the course year, you say I have a good chance of landing post MBA roles..?
2) Given the current situation in France and that EDHEC was my first choice, should I look at Gallen now or EDHEC..?
I just thought Gallen ranks much above EDHEC.
Please advise.
Thanks,
Mallika
quote
Duncan
1. Talk to HSG. Frankly, ask them why they admitted you. Also take a look at Do you need to speak the local language? www.find-mba.com/board/34713 for the comment from HSG.
2. These are not the only two schools in the world, and it's not optimal that you have offers in countries where you don't speak the language. It doesn't matter where these firms rank if you don't speak the language. It might be better to go to HSG, but perhaps after taking a year to get to the level of perfect fluency in German.
1. Talk to HSG. Frankly, ask them why they admitted you. Also take a look at Do you need to speak the local language? www.find-mba.com/board/34713 for the comment from HSG.
2. These are not the only two schools in the world, and it's not optimal that you have offers in countries where you don't speak the language. It doesn't matter where these firms rank if you don't speak the language. It might be better to go to HSG, but perhaps after taking a year to get to the level of perfect fluency in German.
quote

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