MBA vs Msc in International Finance in Netherlands and Germany


tq khanh
Hi everyone,

I am working in financial industry in Tokyo at the moment.

I am looking for a master in finance program that allows me to deepen my knowledge in finance and costs me as low as possible. Because I will return to Japan to work upon graduation so a 1 or 1.5 year program works best for me. I did a research and came across 2 schools in Germany that offer the master in international finance in 3 semesters.
- Berlin school of economics and law
- Nürtingen-Geislingen University

I heard that people dont care much about academic ranking in Germany. I checked on linkedin and because there are so many graduates from these 2 schools working at MNC such as adidas, deutsche bank, etc., I guess the quality of program at both schools is good.

I might have a good chance to get a scholarship from Tias School for Business and Society for its Full-time MBA. The person in charge said that if I really focus on Finance/ Accounting classes, I would graduate with an MBA with emphasis in Finance.

I checked the forum. There is a topic about Berlin International finance program but not Nürtingen-Geislingen University. People also dont discuss much about Tias MBA.

Please advise me. Many thanks in advance.

[Edited by tq khanh on Mar 03, 2017]

Hi everyone,

I am working in financial industry in Tokyo at the moment.

I am looking for a master in finance program that allows me to deepen my knowledge in finance and costs me as low as possible. Because I will return to Japan to work upon graduation so a 1 or 1.5 year program works best for me. I did a research and came across 2 schools in Germany that offer the master in international finance in 3 semesters.
- Berlin school of economics and law
- Nürtingen-Geislingen University

I heard that people dont care much about academic ranking in Germany. I checked on linkedin and because there are so many graduates from these 2 schools working at MNC such as adidas, deutsche bank, etc., I guess the quality of program at both schools is good.

I might have a good chance to get a scholarship from Tias School for Business and Society for its Full-time MBA. The person in charge said that if I really focus on Finance/ Accounting classes, I would graduate with an MBA with emphasis in Finance.

I checked the forum. There is a topic about Berlin International finance program but not Nürtingen-Geislingen University. People also dont discuss much about Tias MBA.

Please advise me. Many thanks in advance.
quote
Dan85
If you want to return to Japan upon graduation, why would you study in Germany? The fact that alumni work in MNCs in Germany doesn't help you much if no one in Japan knows the school.

Or do you only focus on Germany because it's free?

Nürtingen is a small town located in the middle of nowhere - be aware of that.
If you want to return to Japan upon graduation, why would you study in Germany? The fact that alumni work in MNCs in Germany doesn't help you much if no one in Japan knows the school.

Or do you only focus on Germany because it's free?

Nürtingen is a small town located in the middle of nowhere - be aware of that.
quote
Duncan
Some Germans do care about academic rankings. There are basically three tiers of higher education:-
- Eliteuniversität
- Other Universität
- Fachhochschuelen, like BSEL and Nürtingen-Geislingen.

If you want a good, inexpensive masters in finance look at http://rankings.ft.com/businessschoolrankings/masters-in-finance-pre-experience-2016 and add in the column called Value.
Some Germans do care about academic rankings. There are basically three tiers of higher education:-
- Eliteuniversität
- Other Universität
- Fachhochschuelen, like BSEL and Nürtingen-Geislingen.

If you want a good, inexpensive masters in finance look at http://rankings.ft.com/businessschoolrankings/masters-in-finance-pre-experience-2016 and add in the column called Value.
quote
tq khanh
Thank you for your replies. Its because I just want to get/deepen my knowledge in Finance, I am looking for a program that I can finish fast and cost me low. Upon graduation, I can come back to my current company or find another job in Japan a little easier in comparison with doing job hunt in Germany.

Norway, Finland, Poland have many good Finance courses at no/ low tuition, yet they are always 2 year course. Germany is a good place becauce some programs like I listed above are almost free and take only 3 semesters to finish.

Nurtingen is quite small so I doubt its quality. However, the school keeps saying that its Finance course is one of the best in German. I saw some graduates working in big firms in Germany so I consider. Things are the same for Berlin school of economics and law: many graduates are working in big banks and firms in Germany.

Shoud Tias be a better choice than the 2 aboves? Since I am looking for a finance course, I wont get into Tias if it offers me no financial aid.

I read the list Duncan posted before. If money and time are not matter, I am sure to try to get into a top ranked program. Its just because I graduated from a good school in Japan already, I dont need another brandname. From what Duncan posted, I guess both Berlin and Nurtingen are not that selective/ well regarded. Also, I read this article and wonder if the quality of education in Germany is not good like this. If a big and well known university like Cologne is like this, how about other smaller schools/programs.
http://www.zeit.de/studium/hochschule/2015-08/study-abroad-germany

[Edited by tq khanh on Mar 03, 2017]

Thank you for your replies. Its because I just want to get/deepen my knowledge in Finance, I am looking for a program that I can finish fast and cost me low. Upon graduation, I can come back to my current company or find another job in Japan a little easier in comparison with doing job hunt in Germany.

Norway, Finland, Poland have many good Finance courses at no/ low tuition, yet they are always 2 year course. Germany is a good place becauce some programs like I listed above are almost free and take only 3 semesters to finish.

Nurtingen is quite small so I doubt its quality. However, the school keeps saying that its Finance course is one of the best in German. I saw some graduates working in big firms in Germany so I consider. Things are the same for Berlin school of economics and law: many graduates are working in big banks and firms in Germany.

Shoud Tias be a better choice than the 2 aboves? Since I am looking for a finance course, I wont get into Tias if it offers me no financial aid.

I read the list Duncan posted before. If money and time are not matter, I am sure to try to get into a top ranked program. Its just because I graduated from a good school in Japan already, I dont need another brandname. From what Duncan posted, I guess both Berlin and Nurtingen are not that selective/ well regarded. Also, I read this article and wonder if the quality of education in Germany is not good like this. If a big and well known university like Cologne is like this, how about other smaller schools/programs.
http://www.zeit.de/studium/hochschule/2015-08/study-abroad-germany

quote
Duncan
I suggested that you add in the column called value because many of the top-ranked programmes are not expensive. I appreciate that you might not feel the need to get a better brand, but I don't understand why would you want to take a worse course if you could take a better one. Lausanne, Tilburg, Lund, Kozminski etc offer you strong experiences. Indeed, any CFA partner programme will be a good option. Nuertingen isn't terrible, but the experience at state-funded schools in Europe is very uneven. You'll normally have a better experience at a school with a small fee than at a free one. Also consider the Nordic region.
I suggested that you add in the column called value because many of the top-ranked programmes are not expensive. I appreciate that you might not feel the need to get a better brand, but I don't understand why would you want to take a worse course if you could take a better one. Lausanne, Tilburg, Lund, Kozminski etc offer you strong experiences. Indeed, any CFA partner programme will be a good option. Nuertingen isn't terrible, but the experience at state-funded schools in Europe is very uneven. You'll normally have a better experience at a school with a small fee than at a free one. Also consider the Nordic region.
quote
tq khanh
Thanks Duncan. You inspired me to get into a good/ranked program. I really thought that all I need is just a finance course to quickly update/equip me with financial knowledge/skills needed for my career, now I gotta think again.

Sadly, the deadline for 2017 admissions of many good/ranked schools was Feb 1. Now I have to think if I should wait till next year to apply.
Thanks Duncan. You inspired me to get into a good/ranked program. I really thought that all I need is just a finance course to quickly update/equip me with financial knowledge/skills needed for my career, now I gotta think again.

Sadly, the deadline for 2017 admissions of many good/ranked schools was Feb 1. Now I have to think if I should wait till next year to apply.
quote
Duncan
Do you have a Gmat and IELTS score? Because you are coming from a G7 country perhaps you would not have a long visa process. If there are some schools you like then contact them now. Some might be flexible for a candidate from Tokyo.
Do you have a Gmat and IELTS score? Because you are coming from a G7 country perhaps you would not have a long visa process. If there are some schools you like then contact them now. Some might be flexible for a candidate from Tokyo.
quote
Duncan
I just looked at Durham, which I think has the largest portfolio of CFA partner degrees and they are open until May https://www.dur.ac.uk/business/programmes/masters/finance/corporate-finance/
I just looked at Durham, which I think has the largest portfolio of CFA partner degrees and they are open until May https://www.dur.ac.uk/business/programmes/masters/finance/corporate-finance/
quote
tq khanh
Many thanks Duncan. I will contact Durham. I dont have Gmat and my Ielts expired. Some schools waive me English test cos my undergrad and grad studies were done in English, yet Durham still requires.
Many thanks Duncan. I will contact Durham. I dont have Gmat and my Ielts expired. Some schools waive me English test cos my undergrad and grad studies were done in English, yet Durham still requires.
quote
tq khanh
For Netherlands, people with Japanese nationality dont need visa to study there, but visa sponsor is required for work since Jan 2017. Let I check other countries.
For Netherlands, people with Japanese nationality dont need visa to study there, but visa sponsor is required for work since Jan 2017. Let I check other countries.
quote
Sabrina_M
I see the pros and cons for studying in big and small cities, and one should consider the advantage / additional value the surrounding areas can give to the MBA program. For example HfWU is located in Baden-Württemberg, which is one of the economically strongest areas in Germany - which means that jobs opportunities are concentrated here, ranging from big firms like leaders of automobile industry: Daimler & Porsche, as well as Bosch, to numerous SME (Mittelstand in German).

In contrast, Berlin would be more interesting for those interested in start-ups and creative industry (of course there are many more industries located there).
Important to note: no matter where you study in Germany, German language is really really important for one to become successful - I mean to be able to pursue a career with plenty opportunities. Lack of German language competence can easily be a roadblock for you. To put it positively, life is much easier if you manage the German language well :-)

I would recommend you to evaluate in which industry you are the most interested in working, in order to make your decision.

[Edited by Sabrina_M on Apr 21, 2017]

I see the pros and cons for studying in big and small cities, and one should consider the advantage / additional value the surrounding areas can give to the MBA program. For example HfWU is located in Baden-Württemberg, which is one of the economically strongest areas in Germany - which means that jobs opportunities are concentrated here, ranging from big firms like leaders of automobile industry: Daimler & Porsche, as well as Bosch, to numerous SME (Mittelstand in German).

In contrast, Berlin would be more interesting for those interested in start-ups and creative industry (of course there are many more industries located there).
Important to note: no matter where you study in Germany, German language is really really important for one to become successful - I mean to be able to pursue a career with plenty opportunities. Lack of German language competence can easily be a roadblock for you. To put it positively, life is much easier if you manage the German language well :-)

I would recommend you to evaluate in which industry you are the most interested in working, in order to make your decision.
quote
Duncan
Sabina. All of your posts recommend one school which lacks international accreditation. I imagine you have a connection to the school. You should mention it when you post.
Sabina. All of your posts recommend one school which lacks international accreditation. I imagine you have a connection to the school. You should mention it when you post.
quote
Sabrina_M
Hi Duncan, thank you for your kind reminder. Yes I am a current student studying in the program. The MBA program in HfWU is accredited by ACQUIN - please help me understand too - is it considered to be an international accreditation as several countries are covered?
Hi Duncan, thank you for your kind reminder. Yes I am a current student studying in the program. The MBA program in HfWU is accredited by ACQUIN - please help me understand too - is it considered to be an international accreditation as several countries are covered?
quote
Duncan
Not in a meaningful way. It means aacsb, amba and equis. Acquin is 90plus% Dachs and does not indicate world class standards.
Not in a meaningful way. It means aacsb, amba and equis. Acquin is 90plus% Dachs and does not indicate world class standards.
quote
tq khanh
Thank you Sabrina for your information. How do you think about HfWU? Are you enjoying the life and study at the university? Are you from Germany?

Several months before, I thought what I need was just financial knowledge and skills so HfWU was my choice at that time. Now, I thought again. 1 year studying abroad means I have to pay for tuition&living costs+annual salary so I want to make the most out of the year.

HfWU seems to have a very good program in International Finance but the city is quite small and boring for a newbie to the Europe like me. I started to think about other options. Durham is one of my choices as Duncan suggested. Doing CFA by myself is also good. I also like the Corporate Finance program at Ghent University (Again, this university has no international accreditation for its finance program).

Life is so tough.
Thank you Sabrina for your information. How do you think about HfWU? Are you enjoying the life and study at the university? Are you from Germany?

Several months before, I thought what I need was just financial knowledge and skills so HfWU was my choice at that time. Now, I thought again. 1 year studying abroad means I have to pay for tuition&living costs+annual salary so I want to make the most out of the year.

HfWU seems to have a very good program in International Finance but the city is quite small and boring for a newbie to the Europe like me. I started to think about other options. Durham is one of my choices as Duncan suggested. Doing CFA by myself is also good. I also like the Corporate Finance program at Ghent University (Again, this university has no international accreditation for its finance program).

Life is so tough.
quote
tq khanh
I just looked at Durham, which I think has the largest portfolio of CFA partner degrees and they are open until May https://www.dur.ac.uk/business/programmes/masters/finance/corporate-finance/[/quote]

Hi Duncan, I just wanted to inform you that I have got admission into the Msc Corporate and International Finance at Durham. Thank you for your suggestion. I am extremely interested in Durham and the program.

I havent heard anything about the financial support. The tuition fee and living cost are expensive.

By the way, my friend introduced me about Ghent University in Belgium. She said that she will apply for Ghent because it also has a very good MSc program in Finance..++ Is there any one who knows Ghent?

Cambridge has a very good MFin. The tuition is expensive but there are so many types of scholarships/ aids.

[Edited by tq khanh on May 26, 2017]

[quote]I just looked at Durham, which I think has the largest portfolio of CFA partner degrees and they are open until May https://www.dur.ac.uk/business/programmes/masters/finance/corporate-finance/[/quote]

Hi Duncan, I just wanted to inform you that I have got admission into the Msc Corporate and International Finance at Durham. Thank you for your suggestion. I am extremely interested in Durham and the program.

I havent heard anything about the financial support. The tuition fee and living cost are expensive.

By the way, my friend introduced me about Ghent University in Belgium. She said that she will apply for Ghent because it also has a very good MSc program in Finance..++ Is there any one who knows Ghent?

Cambridge has a very good MFin. The tuition is expensive but there are so many types of scholarships/ aids.
quote
Duncan
Educationally Ghent is very good but of course it will not have the facilities, career services or student quality of Durham. You get what you pay for. In the context of the other MiF degrees ranked by the FT, the cost of attending Durham is not expensive. It's one of the cheapest cities in the UK, and the £23,000 tuition is less than many top schools. the MiF at Edinburgh, where I teach, is £26,400. The FT ranks it as better for Value than many other great schools, like Cass, Imperial etc http://rankings.ft.com/businessschoolrankings/masters-in-finance-pre-experience-2016
Educationally Ghent is very good but of course it will not have the facilities, career services or student quality of Durham. You get what you pay for. In the context of the other MiF degrees ranked by the FT, the cost of attending Durham is not expensive. It's one of the cheapest cities in the UK, and the £23,000 tuition is less than many top schools. the MiF at Edinburgh, where I teach, is £26,400. The FT ranks it as better for Value than many other great schools, like Cass, Imperial etc http://rankings.ft.com/businessschoolrankings/masters-in-finance-pre-experience-2016
quote
tq khanh
Thank you Duncan. I was out during the weekend.

Yes, I have to say that I do love Durham and its program. Actually Durham is the only school that I applied this year. Since I am already 35 and have family commitments, I dont think I will go for a master course next year. I will do the CPA if I cant go this year.

Ghent is the school that my friend will apply. She said that some schools in Belgium like Vlerick doesnt allow students over 30 to apply for their master course (Finance). I looked at the course content at Ghent and it looks really good compared to other top schools. I wish my friend will get the admission.

So many people believe that people over 35 shouldnt go for finance!!

[Edited by tq khanh on May 29, 2017]

Thank you Duncan. I was out during the weekend.

Yes, I have to say that I do love Durham and its program. Actually Durham is the only school that I applied this year. Since I am already 35 and have family commitments, I dont think I will go for a master course next year. I will do the CPA if I cant go this year.

Ghent is the school that my friend will apply. She said that some schools in Belgium like Vlerick doesnt allow students over 30 to apply for their master course (Finance). I looked at the course content at Ghent and it looks really good compared to other top schools. I wish my friend will get the admission.

So many people believe that people over 35 shouldnt go for finance!!
quote
Duncan
Durham is a great option. It's one of the most desirable schools for us British but, partly because of the location, international students tend to overlook it. But the average salaries are better there than popular schools like Strathclyde and Henley. The accounting department there seems to always be expanding the teaching team too.
Durham is a great option. It's one of the most desirable schools for us British but, partly because of the location, international students tend to overlook it. But the average salaries are better there than popular schools like Strathclyde and Henley. The accounting department there seems to always be expanding the teaching team too.
quote
laurie
So many people believe that people over 35 shouldnt go for finance!!

I think that's because the financial services firms - the big ones at least, tend to hire much younger candidates, and if they hire older ones it tends to be because they have experience in the sector.

Many older candidates 'break in' to the industry with their previous operational experience - for example if they worked in IT for 10 years prior, they'll try to get an IT type role in a finance firm, simply to get their foot in the door.
[quote]So many people believe that people over 35 shouldnt go for finance!! [/quote]
I think that's because the financial services firms - the big ones at least, tend to hire much younger candidates, and if they hire older ones it tends to be because they have experience in the sector.

Many older candidates 'break in' to the industry with their previous operational experience - for example if they worked in IT for 10 years prior, they'll try to get an IT type role in a finance firm, simply to get their foot in the door.
quote

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