Better MBA choice


Rjpmd07
Hi all,

A bit of background, I have been a physician for about 11 years now working in the US. Looking to transition to a new career with an MBA. I am open to new sectors or staying within healthcare as an entrepreneur or consultant. Ive been grappling with a few things:

I’m looking at MBA programs in Europe just as my personal preference and also because I’d like to eventually relocate with my family (wife and kids) there in a new role. I’ve gotten interviewed at RSM for the full time MBA program and at ESADE where they believe I would fit in better with the EMBA because I can continue to work remotely while I study. I am in the process of retaking my GMAT since I scored a 440 the first time which led to a few other programs turning me down not only for that but due to my work experience as well. So currently my focus has been on the 2 programs that have taken a further look at me.

I’d like to get some advice regarding:
1. Which would be a better program to take?
2. I know it’s apples and oranges, but full time MBA vs EMBA given the fact I’d like to transition and potentially not stay in the same sector or same country (US) for that matter?
3. Which is the better country in terms of job prospects after an MBA for someone like me? Spain or Netherlands?
4. Are there other programs that I should be looking into with the goals I have in mind and who are open to someone with my background? I’ve haven found a lot but maybe I’m not looking in the right places.
5. Just as an additional question in case someone has an answer, which country would be better for raising a family? My kids are 9 and 2 at the moment.

Thank you in advance!
Hi all,

A bit of background, I have been a physician for about 11 years now working in the US. Looking to transition to a new career with an MBA. I am open to new sectors or staying within healthcare as an entrepreneur or consultant. Ive been grappling with a few things:

I’m looking at MBA programs in Europe just as my personal preference and also because I’d like to eventually relocate with my family (wife and kids) there in a new role. I’ve gotten interviewed at RSM for the full time MBA program and at ESADE where they believe I would fit in better with the EMBA because I can continue to work remotely while I study. I am in the process of retaking my GMAT since I scored a 440 the first time which led to a few other programs turning me down not only for that but due to my work experience as well. So currently my focus has been on the 2 programs that have taken a further look at me.

I’d like to get some advice regarding:
1. Which would be a better program to take?
2. I know it’s apples and oranges, but full time MBA vs EMBA given the fact I’d like to transition and potentially not stay in the same sector or same country (US) for that matter?
3. Which is the better country in terms of job prospects after an MBA for someone like me? Spain or Netherlands?
4. Are there other programs that I should be looking into with the goals I have in mind and who are open to someone with my background? I’ve haven found a lot but maybe I’m not looking in the right places.
5. Just as an additional question in case someone has an answer, which country would be better for raising a family? My kids are 9 and 2 at the moment.

Thank you in advance!
quote
Duncan
I don't think you have researched this too deeply. Most physicians working in the USA don't speak Dutch or Catalan, and I think you would have mentioned it if you did. Few MBAs in Europe are known to US employers.

If you want to make a transition to Europe, the full-time MBA has the advantage of coming with a visa that allows you to bring your family if they are not Europeans. Assuming you don't speak a second European language, focus on the full-time MBAs that are successful at placing foreigners: Best schools for international students' placement http://www.find-mba.com/board/41143

If you perhaps want to return to the US, and have European residency, then your focus should be on European MBA programmes that lead to US degrees: Brown/IE; Chicago/London; Georgetown/ESADE; Indiana/Manchester; Iowa/CIMBA; Minnesota/Vienna; Northwestern/WHU; Purdue/Tilburg; Rochester/Bern; or Temple/ENPC. These are all different cities and, to be honest, they are similar enough in quality as MBAs that you could give the choice to your family. Unless you speak another European language, I would focus on the programs in London, Manchester, Tilburg and at WHU because you speak English, and many employers who hire from Tilburg and WHU have roles that don't initially require another European language.

By the way, UNC is a participant in RSM's OneMBA but you don't become an UNC graduate and don't get the UNC network.

It might sound odd to focus on a part-time degree but your non-traditional background means you will need to focus on building your network, learning the language, helping your family to integrate, interviewing like crazy, building your personal brand and perhaps getting some consulting gigs. A US friend was in my EMBA cohort at LBS and did exactly that. The part time nature allowed him to focus on the real work of putting down roots.

Even with an MBA, I am not sure if you have a clear idea of what sort of role a company would hire you for rather than a classmate who spoke the local language and knew the culture.

The easiest way for you to make this transition is: make the transition in a series of small steps: What sort of role do your skills and motivations make you a good fit for, and then what are the sort of roles that people like you take up in Europe, in medical/healthcare/pharma/life sciences? and then where's the fit between where you are credible and where those roles are clustered>
I don't think you have researched this too deeply. Most physicians working in the USA don't speak Dutch or Catalan, and I think you would have mentioned it if you did. Few MBAs in Europe are known to US employers.

If you want to make a transition to Europe, the full-time MBA has the advantage of coming with a visa that allows you to bring your family if they are not Europeans. Assuming you don't speak a second European language, focus on the full-time MBAs that are successful at placing foreigners: Best schools for international students' placement http://www.find-mba.com/board/41143

If you perhaps want to return to the US, and have European residency, then your focus should be on European MBA programmes that lead to US degrees: Brown/IE; Chicago/London; Georgetown/ESADE; Indiana/Manchester; Iowa/CIMBA; Minnesota/Vienna; Northwestern/WHU; Purdue/Tilburg; Rochester/Bern; or Temple/ENPC. These are all different cities and, to be honest, they are similar enough in quality as MBAs that you could give the choice to your family. Unless you speak another European language, I would focus on the programs in London, Manchester, Tilburg and at WHU because you speak English, and many employers who hire from Tilburg and WHU have roles that don't initially require another European language.

By the way, UNC is a participant in RSM's OneMBA but you don't become an UNC graduate and don't get the UNC network.

It might sound odd to focus on a part-time degree but your non-traditional background means you will need to focus on building your network, learning the language, helping your family to integrate, interviewing like crazy, building your personal brand and perhaps getting some consulting gigs. A US friend was in my EMBA cohort at LBS and did exactly that. The part time nature allowed him to focus on the real work of putting down roots.

Even with an MBA, I am not sure if you have a clear idea of what sort of role a company would hire you for rather than a classmate who spoke the local language and knew the culture.

The easiest way for you to make this transition is: make the transition in a series of small steps: What sort of role do your skills and motivations make you a good fit for, and then what are the sort of roles that people like you take up in Europe, in medical/healthcare/pharma/life sciences? and then where's the fit between where you are credible and where those roles are clustered>
quote
Rjpmd07
Hi Duncan,

Thanks so much for your reply. I agree that I may have not researched enough and I appreciate the link you sent regarding the schools. A few points:

I don’t have any intention of coming back to the US after my MBA and would be comfortable with programs that don’t necessarily have that connection. The visa issue according to ESADE where I am considering an EMBA would not be a problem since I can apparently apply for a non lucrative visa which would include my family. I do have a means to support them as well since I can do remote work whilst doing the EMBA.

The language issue is a good point and something that the programs have not mentioned to me. I realize that it is their job to sell the program, but since I am spending a lot of resources to relocate, I’d like to think that there is a more significant chance surrounding landing employment in Europe than the language issue, particularly in very international schools like ESADE and RSM. Some of the graduates I’ve spoken to also speak highly about the schools’ ability to help them find something. Am I on a slippery slope in my thinking this way? I am also learning Spanish currently and depending on where I get accepted after my GMAT maybe Dutch. Also, if I choose an entrepreneurial path, where would I have the most luck in setting roots as far as places and MBAs go?

I am assuming that due to my non traditional background and lower than average GMAT score, I was not considered by some of the programs that you mentioned. I had applied to Manchester, LBS and Imperial College for example and got rejection letters from them, granted that I applied to the FT MBA programs at those schools. Would it be worth it to try applying to the EMBAs given that I would like to transition to Europe at the end?

From what I have read in the last portion of your comment, my priority really would be to establish something outside of the walls of my school instead of relying solely on the career services, because of my non traditional background. Add to that, the fact that my family will be relocating with me and will also need to adjust. In this case I believe what you are saying is an EMBA or part time MBA would be the best option and tick off the most boxes.
Hi Duncan,

Thanks so much for your reply. I agree that I may have not researched enough and I appreciate the link you sent regarding the schools. A few points:

I don’t have any intention of coming back to the US after my MBA and would be comfortable with programs that don’t necessarily have that connection. The visa issue according to ESADE where I am considering an EMBA would not be a problem since I can apparently apply for a non lucrative visa which would include my family. I do have a means to support them as well since I can do remote work whilst doing the EMBA.

The language issue is a good point and something that the programs have not mentioned to me. I realize that it is their job to sell the program, but since I am spending a lot of resources to relocate, I’d like to think that there is a more significant chance surrounding landing employment in Europe than the language issue, particularly in very international schools like ESADE and RSM. Some of the graduates I’ve spoken to also speak highly about the schools’ ability to help them find something. Am I on a slippery slope in my thinking this way? I am also learning Spanish currently and depending on where I get accepted after my GMAT maybe Dutch. Also, if I choose an entrepreneurial path, where would I have the most luck in setting roots as far as places and MBAs go?

I am assuming that due to my non traditional background and lower than average GMAT score, I was not considered by some of the programs that you mentioned. I had applied to Manchester, LBS and Imperial College for example and got rejection letters from them, granted that I applied to the FT MBA programs at those schools. Would it be worth it to try applying to the EMBAs given that I would like to transition to Europe at the end?

From what I have read in the last portion of your comment, my priority really would be to establish something outside of the walls of my school instead of relying solely on the career services, because of my non traditional background. Add to that, the fact that my family will be relocating with me and will also need to adjust. In this case I believe what you are saying is an EMBA or part time MBA would be the best option and tick off the most boxes.
quote
Duncan
If the option to run to the USA doesn't matter then the best option will be a full time MBA with great placement. Language is central and, remember, Esade is in Catalonia where the language is Catalan. Read the posts linked from my profile page and especially the one called do you need to learn the local language. Outside of finance and IT, there are few MBA roles where you don't need to speak to customers.

Certainly work on the GMAT. You will benefit from better schools' superior careers services.
If the option to run to the USA doesn't matter then the best option will be a full time MBA with great placement. Language is central and, remember, Esade is in Catalonia where the language is Catalan. Read the posts linked from my profile page and especially the one called do you need to learn the local language. Outside of finance and IT, there are few MBA roles where you don't need to speak to customers.

Certainly work on the GMAT. You will benefit from better schools' superior careers services.
quote
Rjpmd07
Thank you for your advice Duncan. I’ll definirely take a look at those posts and work on the language portion after my GMAT.
Thank you for your advice Duncan. I’ll definirely take a look at those posts and work on the language portion after my GMAT.
quote
Duncan
Also, try out the careerleader.com test. It might give you a better idea of where you might fit. Consider arranging some informational interviews with people in firms where you might be a easy fit: major MBA recruiters with many doctors employed.
Also, try out the careerleader.com test. It might give you a better idea of where you might fit. Consider arranging some informational interviews with people in firms where you might be a easy fit: major MBA recruiters with many doctors employed.
quote
mba hipste...
The language issue is a good point and something that the programs have not mentioned to me. I realize that it is their job to sell the program, but since I am spending a lot of resources to relocate, I’d like to think that there is a more significant chance surrounding landing employment in Europe than the language issue, particularly in very international schools like ESADE and RSM.

You'd think so but in their marketing materials they don't often highlight this. Although there are instances where grads in countries who do not speak the local language do find work, in many cases these are the exceptions rather than the rule. In all cases, if your intention is to work in Europe, a full-time MBA would be much better than an EMBA. Perhaps look at some ranked full-time MBA programs in the UK as well?
[quote]The language issue is a good point and something that the programs have not mentioned to me. I realize that it is their job to sell the program, but since I am spending a lot of resources to relocate, I’d like to think that there is a more significant chance surrounding landing employment in Europe than the language issue, particularly in very international schools like ESADE and RSM. [/quote]
You'd think so but in their marketing materials they don't often highlight this. Although there are instances where grads in countries who do not speak the local language do find work, in many cases these are the exceptions rather than the rule. In all cases, if your intention is to work in Europe, a full-time MBA would be much better than an EMBA. Perhaps look at some ranked full-time MBA programs in the UK as well?
quote
Larry
There's a lot of good reading at least about RSM on this thread:

https://find-mba.com/board/europe/rsm-whats-the-truth-about-it-14224/3

... there's at least one alum there who speaks highly of the experience, and says that their classmates, even the ones who spoke only English, did fairly well in finding work, even in the Netherlands. However, the school still has a lower placement rate than some other European b-schools in the FT ranking.
There's a lot of good reading at least about RSM on this thread:

https://find-mba.com/board/europe/rsm-whats-the-truth-about-it-14224/3

... there's at least one alum there who speaks highly of the experience, and says that their classmates, even the ones who spoke only English, did fairly well in finding work, even in the Netherlands. However, the school still has a lower placement rate than some other European b-schools in the FT ranking.
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Rjpmd07
Thanks so much Larry I’ll look into the other links too as I’m sure that it will help with the final decision.
Thanks so much Larry I’ll look into the other links too as I’m sure that it will help with the final decision.
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Duncan
Unlike Esade, at RSM few international students will speak the local business language. That limits their initial work opportunities and greatly restricts the openings for upwards progression.
Unlike Esade, at RSM few international students will speak the local business language. That limits their initial work opportunities and greatly restricts the openings for upwards progression.
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Rjpmd07
That’s good to know. That will definitely factor into which school I end up choosing
That’s good to know. That will definitely factor into which school I end up choosing
quote
Duncan
Dollar for dollar, a year in an intensive language course will be a better investment for many people than an MBA
Dollar for dollar, a year in an intensive language course will be a better investment for many people than an MBA
quote

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