Hi, I'm currently looking for a good B-school located within Asia, particularly in China. I?ve done some research and many people seem to recognize HKUST and CEIBS as very respectable and competitive schools in China. However, I have also been looking at Tsing Hua?s IMBA program (with the MIT certificate), but have been unable to find many opinions regarding this school. Does anyone have any information that could help me determine whether or not Tsing Hua is a worth while and reputable B-school? Thanks for your opinions!

very reputable in mainland China..

do you speak Mandarin? if so, perhaps go for it, if not, there are better choices out there..

CEIBS and HK UST are in a league of their own in Asia, depending on what you intend to specialize in you should pick one of the two... I assume that you are a "westerner"

Yes, I am a ?Westerner? and I have taken some college level courses in Mandarin but would only consider myself a low level beginner. I?m interested in the import/export business in Asia and reasoned that it would be very beneficial to me if I was fluent in Mandarin, hence my interest in schools in China. I heard that Tsing Hua was an excellent institution to hone one?s language skills at, but I am concerned about how the IMBA degree will be received outside of China, primarily in the US. Will the MIT certificate be of any valuable use to me, or is it more similar to a consolation prize? If there are better choices, or schools I my have over looked, what are you recommendations? My other question is will I be able to pick up any Mandarin in Hong Kong? My understanding was that Cantonese was the primary dialect there. Also, I am preparing to take the GMAT in less than a month, what score should I be shooting for to be seriously considered for these schools, and how heavily is work experience weighed into the admission process? Thanks for your help!

Yes, I am a ?Westerner? and I have taken some college level courses in Mandarin but would only consider myself a low level beginner. I?m interested in the import/export business in Asia and reasoned that it would be very beneficial to me if I was fluent in Mandarin, hence my interest in schools in China. I heard that Tsing Hua was an excellent institution to hone one?s language skills at, but I am concerned about how the IMBA degree will be received outside of China, primarily in the US. Will the MIT certificate be of any valuable use to me, or is it more similar to a consolation prize? If there are better choices, or schools I my have over looked, what are you recommendations? My other question is will I be able to pick up any Mandarin in Hong Kong? My understanding was that Cantonese was the primary dialect there. Also, I am preparing to take the GMAT in less than a month, what score should I be shooting for to be seriously considered for these schools, and how heavily is work experience weighed into the admission process? Thanks for your help!

Thanks for your help Shawn! I appreciate your time and effort in replying to my post. I hate making an uninformed decision and feel that I am better informed now. Although this is a little off topic, I have another question. In your opinion, what would one have to do in order to make himself a strong candidate for a position with a US company working in mainland China or a to get hired by a company mainland China? I ask his because I am deeply interested in Chinese culture and history and would like to live abroad while I am still relatively young. I believe one is selling himself short and does not truly gain much of an understanding unless he actually lives and interacts with the inhabitants of the country he is interested in. If you have an opinion or would like to share any advice on this matter I will gladly listen.

mainland China right now and certainly in the future is basically is reserved for senior western executives with work experience that is hard to find in Beijing or Shanghai. Only these positions you can get by with no or weak Mandarin.
anything lower down the ladder is impossible for westerners.

saying that, why mainland China only, you can get the Chinese exposure in HK, also consider Singapore, these places are a lot more westerner friendly. If you are interested in Finance HK is by far the better place to be than mainland and will continue to be so for the foreseeable future.

If you are interested in private companies in China, Cheung Kong Graduate School of Business founded by Chinese Tycoon, Li Ka-Shing is definitely the best. With their top notch faculty of international reputation and experience, deep insights about Chinese enterprises and excellent classroom delivery in the classroom, it is by far the best. Here is the web link: www.ckgsb.edu.cn

I am currently a second year at Tsinghua University's IMBA program. I thought I would address some of your thoughts.

Chinese - Beijing is one of the best places in China to learn Mandarin. In Hong Kong they speak Cantonese and in Shanghai, Shanghaihua. As for being fluent, it is very difficult. However, if you can master listening (still not easy) and reading newspapers/e-mails (a good test is to 100% understand Caijing 财经 Magazine), you can put yourself in a position to find a job. I have already had two internships, one at Lenovo and another at a Chinese Investment Bank. My Chinese was not fluent but I was able to get by.

MIT Connection - Most students put MIT on their resume as it is a "collaborative program," meaning MIT professors come here and we use the same course books Sloan uses. As well, this year is the first time they are planning to send 20 IMBAs (only from Tsinghua) to travel to MIT in Boston and do a short-term exchange with Sloan MBAs. Through these interactions, you build up a friendship with MIT Sloan MBAs. When you graduate, you become an affiliate alumni and get access to the MIT alumni database. This is on top of the Stanford shot term Exchange. Harvard MBAs come here in January and offer a networking opportunity.

Tsinghua - This is like having gold on your resume in China and the major selling point. Besides the 500 yearly MBAs (IMBA, Full Time MBAs, and Part-time MBAs) who will become your friends and close network upon graduation, you have access to two Executive MBA programs for networking. One is the original EMBA which is for Chinese managers and government officials (most government officials come to Tsinghua for EMBAs). The other is new INSEAD-Tsinghua EMBA, which allows you to meet execs from HK,Singapore and China.

There are risks and downsides of doing an MBA in China. The number one is salary. Chinese MBAs, including CEIBS, have an average starting salary between 30-45K. Foreigners, unless you have made solid connections, will likley be put on the same grade when starting out (unless you go to HK/Singapore). However, the experience working in China, depending on your industry and future goals, could pay off after a few years if you plan to go back to the West.

Tsinghua and Hong Kong USt should be major beneficiaries of increased funding by the Chinese government because of the new announced shift towards science and technology.

The caliber of advice on this forum is shocking. HKUST and CEIBS may be "in a league of their own" but that's just where they are.

The network of these MBA upstarts cannot hold a candle to Tsinghua's prestige. Tsinghua has spawned China's top leaders for decades--in both private and public sectors, including the prime ministers and premiers.

Couple Tsinghua's cachet with MIT, and the degree is fabulous in a tech-besotted China.

The drivel posted here about requiring Mandarin is baseless. Tsinghua's own regular MBA and especially the IMBA with MIT are both held *totally* in English. Please google for it.

If you want to work in China, NOTHING can beat the combination of Tsinghua and MIT, barring the usual Harvard, Stanford, Wharton hegemony. But none of those schools have yet awoken to any ties with China. Chicago, Insead, Columbia have all tried to come to Asia in some way or another, but the big3 are sleeping on their laurels.

If you wish to find info on the IMBA, email MIT or Tsinghua's adcom. I think you need to be admitted to Sloan's MBA to opt for the IMBA.

And just to add to that, the profile of jobs you will get after an MIT/Tsinghua MBA is not of the caliber of $50,000.

Tsing Hua may be that good as you describe, but, I assume, it is true only if you want to work in China. In Hong Kong her joint degree with MIT will go after HKUST, HKU, and may be even CHUK. I also have seen Tsing Hua exchange student in HKUST MBA programme, and, honestly, they are not up to the level. Also Tsing Hua is ranked in neither Financial Times, nor The Economist - this substantially lowers its international prestige and brand recognition outside China. I tell you more: when I was looking for my MBA programme, I did not consider Tsing Hua simply because I have never heard about it living in Thailand - which is also Asia. As for the salaries which are not in the 50'000$ order (I assume, you want to say "much higher" rather than "much lower"), either these are the salaries of EMBA, or these salaries are not in China, or these salaries are stated in purchasing power parity rather than real terms. Based on CEIBS' information, their average graduate earns US$160'000 per year - I am afraid Tsing Hua's salary information is of the same kind. Nevertheless, it is difficult to deny that Tsing Hua is one of the leading MBA programmes in China.

Just to clarify, no MBA students in China earn US$160,000/year. Theses are FT numbers converted from their PPP values at the time of rankings. CEIBS students make between 300,000 - 500,000 RMB/year.

If you speak to most executives, or look at the higher ranks of business in the mainland, you can see a clear image of which schools are cranking out leaders. The research conducted by a leading HR company where my friend works said CEIBS and Tsinghua were tied, with BeijingU and CKGSB far behind. I do not have access to this document however since they charge $$$ for it.

What I was able to find was who are the guys at the leading PE/VC firms, and this confirms what my friend suggested; they are Tsinghua/Ceibs MBAs (as well as American MBAs).

Given this metric, another way of looking at the choice is Beijing vs. Shanghai (the most connected place in China vs. the most connected place with other countries). The Hong Kong schools are also quite good, but the geographic question is very defining. Do not choose CEIBS if you want to work outside Shanghai and do not chose Tsinghua if you want to work in Hong Kong. Choosing any Hong Kong school for working anywhere in mainland China would be the biggest mistake of all.

Choosing any Hong Kong school for working anywhere in mainland China would be the biggest mistake of all.

Obviously, with the exception of 1 person, none of the people expressing their opinion have any knowledge of the Chinese and Hong Kong educational market. Tsinghua is THE NUMBER ONE by far in China and has consistently produced top leaders of major international and state-owned companies.
Check out who is on the SEM advisory board (currently Lloyd Blankfein from GS, Craig Barrett from Intel, and others).
There is a reason why Tsinghua was able to partner with Harvard Business School, MIT, and INSEAD.

The types of cars in Tsinghua's parking lot when an EMBA class is on beats the Sunset Boulevard any day.
BTW, many Tsinghua graduates work in HK.

There is no doubt that Tsinghua is a prestigous institution in China and a generally recognized name among academics outside of China. But, that doesn't necessarily make it a great choice for graduate studies. For the last 50 years, China's top schools have enjoyed a privileged position when recruiting undergraduate students. China had an extreme shortfall in the number of university seats, so the top schools faced little competition for the brightest of Chinese undergraduates. Not surprisingly, those who were able to get into these institutions have gone on to do very well. I would argue, however, that their success was largely due to what is known as the "selection effect." That is, if you select the right people--people who have a high probability of doing well--then, put your chop on them, over time your chop will get a reputation as a useful signal for quality.

Since relatively few undergraduates in China have had the financial wherewithal to study abroad, China's top universities remain very competitive when recruiting local undergraduates. Unfortunately, this is not the case for graduate programs, including professional programs like MBA programs. For at least the last 20 years, the top programs in any field have been global in their recruiting. At this stage, the top Chinese candidates in virtually any field have options to study anywhere they want world-wide. As a result, even a great institution like Tsinghua faces real competition, and they are not nearly as well prepared to compete for the top talent at this stage, regardless of who is on the advisory board.

two years later, where are the posters ?

Bump. Im also curious about this. What is the current perspective on this topic??

I graduated in 2008 and ran across this file - the first Tsinghua Class with substantial foreigners graduated in June 2008 - giving them about 1.5 years of experience out in the field. The next class has had less than 6 months.

There is definitely a trend in internationalizing the IMBA program - this year, according to their website - Tsinghua SEM has registered 420 new MBA students this year, including 360 from Chinese mainland, five from Hong Kong-Taiwan Region, and 55 international students from 16 countries. Among the international students registered this semester, 36% of them are from North America, 18% of them are from Europe and 42% of them are from Asia. This indicates 30 Western students. If each class has 60 people - it means your class will have 15 Western Students (including ABCs/CBCs), 15 (Asians and occasional Russian or African), and the rest Chinese. Asia usually means Koreans (due to Korean company sponsorships) - so a good 20 (or 10 per class) are likely from that country.

As for post employment for Westerners - it is really up to how you can add value to an organization. Many ABCs/CBCs who speak, read, write fluently have had no problems getting jobs for MNCs and big name companies - and have proven themselves due to their commitment to the region and their ability to work well with both Chinese and Westerners. For those with advanced Chinese, but still not fluent (including most Western non-Chinese background), success has been at finding a nitche job - likely not an MNC, but a smaller to medium sized company that has a product or service that needs expansion in China. In these organizations, decisions are not as structured/cookie cutter as larger MNCs. Because you are more hands, the Chinese, although important, is not as vital as getting plan developed, product sold, or investment decision made. The alternative is to work for a MNC in HK, Singapore,SE Asia for Westerners - and some have done so (and thus got the highest Salary packages in the class - salary is like this $40K-$70K+ in China $60K-$100K+ outside Mainland China).

But recently the trend/feeling is that by spending so much effort in mainland China, moving out of China would mean a lost opportunity. Many students find out that if they can just get a job in China after graduation with managerial status and work in that role for 2 to 3 years - the job (and investment) opportunities (because of the network and work experience gained) become much bigger. Then switching jobs to your ideal company in China (and salary negotiation) become much better - given that you have the background to do that job. Students start realizing who the foreigners are working in their industry and what their skills are, what their salary is, etc. In two years, you know how to sell yourself for that position to another organization (or the same one if it is hiring).
The last option is for those that want to start their own business - along with China's 42 million SMEs, it won't be easy, but the opportunity is there.

Interesting comments - I think the FT ranking is the reason most international students choose CEIBS over Tsinghua. Other factors appear to be the Shanghai or Beijing debate. One factor Tsinghua clearly beats CEIBS is in is their board of advisors.I did not realize Tsinghua's Advisory Board had so many key people. If you apply to Carlyle, Blackstone, or Temasek, even if you get rejected, they can't say they never have heard of Tsinghua (all of their heads are on the board)...

Tsinghua Advisor List: http://www.sem.tsinghua.edu.cn/jg_en/infoSingleArticle.do?articleId=2154&columnId=1058

CEIBS Advisor List:
http://www.ceibs.edu/today/establishment/bod/index.shtml

Sample List of Tsinghua Advisory Board:
Executive Director & CEO, Temasek Holdings Private Limited
Irwin Mark Jacobs
Co-Founder & Managing Director, The Carlyle Group
Garth Saloner
Dean, Graduate School of Business, Stanford University
James J. Schiro
Dean, MIT Sloan School of Management
Stephen A. Schwarzman
Chairman & CEO, Blackstone
H. Lee Scott, Jr.
Former President and CEO, Wal-mart Stores, Inc.
Chairman of the Executive Committee of the Board, Wal-mart Stores, Inc.