Need help. Msc or MBA?


shantaram

Hi, I am Shiv, a 24 year old Indian looking for a management degree from UK/Europe.
I completed my Bachelors in Engineering with a major in Mechanical in 2010 and have been a working partner in a firm with an annual turnover of ~$1 million from 2005.
I am looking for a general management degree (either Msc or MBA) to update my knowledge and gain some exposure. Post degree, I am planning a short stint in the corporate world to get a first hand feel of their processes and management strategies.
I was looking for a Sept 2012 admit but however, inspite of all the research and pouring over tonnes of material on the internet, I am not able to shortlist any particular set of schools that fit my needs (diverse class profile, quality lecturers,brand easily recognised in India). Another spanner in the works are my not so great bachelors result (59%) and no GMAT score.
Would like some help in selection of schools that can be a perfect match for my needs. Will greatly appreciate it. :)

PS : Got offers from LSBF-Grenoble MIB and Hult MIB without even applying to them. Just a few long chats over the telephone because I asked for their brochures and they promised to do everything for me once I fill the application form. But I didn't like their course structure(s), not to mention their over-eagerness.

Hi, I am Shiv, a 24 year old Indian looking for a management degree from UK/Europe.
I completed my Bachelors in Engineering with a major in Mechanical in 2010 and have been a working partner in a firm with an annual turnover of ~$1 million from 2005.
I am looking for a general management degree (either Msc or MBA) to update my knowledge and gain some exposure. Post degree, I am planning a short stint in the corporate world to get a first hand feel of their processes and management strategies.
I was looking for a Sept 2012 admit but however, inspite of all the research and pouring over tonnes of material on the internet, I am not able to shortlist any particular set of schools that fit my needs (diverse class profile, quality lecturers,brand easily recognised in India). Another spanner in the works are my not so great bachelors result (59%) and no GMAT score.
Would like some help in selection of schools that can be a perfect match for my needs. Will greatly appreciate it. :)

PS : Got offers from LSBF-Grenoble MIB and Hult MIB without even applying to them. Just a few long chats over the telephone because I asked for their brochures and they promised to do everything for me once I fill the application form. But I didn't like their course structure(s), not to mention their over-eagerness.
quote
Duncan

You have an interesting background so you could get into a great school. If you can overcome your aversion to the GMAT, it will make a huge difference.

You have an interesting background so you could get into a great school. If you can overcome your aversion to the GMAT, it will make a huge difference.
quote
shantaram

Thanks for the reply at such short notice! :)
What sort of a time frame would I be looking at if I start preparing for GMAT from now? Because I know that even if I give the GMAT as early as March, I may not be able to make it into a decent school for the Sept intake.
If I do write the GMAT, what should be my min. range of score to compensate for my low degree handicap?
Also, considering my India centric focus, what are the schools that I should be looking at??

Thanks for the reply at such short notice! :)
What sort of a time frame would I be looking at if I start preparing for GMAT from now? Because I know that even if I give the GMAT as early as March, I may not be able to make it into a decent school for the Sept intake.
If I do write the GMAT, what should be my min. range of score to compensate for my low degree handicap?
Also, considering my India centric focus, what are the schools that I should be looking at??
quote
Duncan

Tell me more about your Indocentric plans. If you want to work in India, why study somewhere else?

Tell me more about your Indocentric plans. If you want to work in India, why study somewhere else?
quote
shantaram

After my MBA, i am planning to work in the Operations or Strategy team of a corporate house for 3-5 years to get a first hand feel of their workings and then go on to set up a India based venture. Reason for a MBA in Europe is for the exposure to different cultures and for networking benefits. But yes, the baseline is I eventually want to set up base in India.
Key question with respect to MBA in India is if the knowledge gained will be substantial considering the fresher majority and also lack of diversity.

After my MBA, i am planning to work in the Operations or Strategy team of a corporate house for 3-5 years to get a first hand feel of their workings and then go on to set up a India based venture. Reason for a MBA in Europe is for the exposure to different cultures and for networking benefits. But yes, the baseline is I eventually want to set up base in India.
Key question with respect to MBA in India is if the knowledge gained will be substantial considering the fresher majority and also lack of diversity.
quote
Duncan

In which country do you want that post-MBA role? I really think if your plans are in India, then you perhaps should be looking at schools in Asia.

In which country do you want that post-MBA role? I really think if your plans are in India, then you perhaps should be looking at schools in Asia.
quote
shantaram

Would prefer the post MBA role also in Asia.
Now that you broach the idea, it does make sense. Maybe it was influence of previous students that made me instinctively look west for my higher studies.
But also don't schools like NUS/HKUST/CEIBS prefer students who are in the 28-30 age group?

Would prefer the post MBA role also in Asia.
Now that you broach the idea, it does make sense. Maybe it was influence of previous students that made me instinctively look west for my higher studies.
But also don't schools like NUS/HKUST/CEIBS prefer students who are in the 28-30 age group?
quote
Duncan

Yes. But I think you fit an MBA more than an MSc.

Take a look at these schools where the average age and work experience are low, and at the PGPX programmes in India:

Bradford School of Management
TiasNimbas Business School
SP Jain Center of Management
University of Cape Town GSB
University of Rochester: Simon
Pepperdine University: Graziadio
Texas A & M University: Mays
Eada
University of Florida: Hough
University of Notre Dame: Mendoza
University of South Carolina: Moore

Yes. But I think you fit an MBA more than an MSc.

Take a look at these schools where the average age and work experience are low, and at the PGPX programmes in India:

Bradford School of Management
TiasNimbas Business School
SP Jain Center of Management
University of Cape Town GSB
University of Rochester: Simon
Pepperdine University: Graziadio
Texas A & M University: Mays
Eada
University of Florida: Hough
University of Notre Dame: Mendoza
University of South Carolina: Moore

quote
shantaram

Thanks a lot for the list. Will go through it and get back to you if any doubts arise. :)
What is the ideal GMAT score I should be looking at?

Thanks a lot for the list. Will go through it and get back to you if any doubts arise. :)
What is the ideal GMAT score I should be looking at?
quote
Duncan

I guess around 680 would be comfortable for the schools I've listed above. Add 50 to 100 for the IIM's of course.

I guess around 680 would be comfortable for the schools I've listed above. Add 50 to 100 for the IIM's of course.
quote
shantaram

Thanks a lot for the advice. Will work on it. :)

Thanks a lot for the advice. Will work on it. :)
quote
kodeA

Shantaram,

Hi if you are 24.. how come you passed out in 2010 ??
Had delayed the admissions ??

And yes this is one advice I would give every Indian applicant.
We have a tendency of "lets get done with MBA" and hurry.

I would strongly suggest re-check your plans for future, and specially how an MBA degree shall assist you in reaching your goals ??

To gain experience to open something of your own in India ??
I m not an expert but my advice would be, right now - WORK
MBA is not Harry Potter's Magic Wand which shall make all our dreams possible. Neither shall world look up to us as if we have super human powers.

I see MBA as a polish on our skills.. the better the leather the better results the Polish shall give.

If you wait for 4 to 5 yrs more.. you shall learn more from your degree.. and if you are serious about your venture, then "the owner of ur business is pass out from Ivy College in 2017 is much better than "any college" in 2013"

In my opinion its too early to settle for "good enough". I say go for the best.

Check the profiles of people pursuing MBA from good colleges - they are heading departments in MNCs, are sons of Family owned businesses doing really good - In Networking is really important for your venture.

If you want to be in India, study in India.

coz with a Loan to be paid in Dollars and Salary in INR, brother you are inviting trouble your way :)

Shantaram,

Hi if you are 24.. how come you passed out in 2010 ??
Had delayed the admissions ??

And yes this is one advice I would give every Indian applicant.
We have a tendency of "lets get done with MBA" and hurry.

I would strongly suggest re-check your plans for future, and specially how an MBA degree shall assist you in reaching your goals ??

To gain experience to open something of your own in India ??
I m not an expert but my advice would be, right now - WORK
MBA is not Harry Potter's Magic Wand which shall make all our dreams possible. Neither shall world look up to us as if we have super human powers.

I see MBA as a polish on our skills.. the better the leather the better results the Polish shall give.

If you wait for 4 to 5 yrs more.. you shall learn more from your degree.. and if you are serious about your venture, then "the owner of ur business is pass out from Ivy College in 2017 is much better than "any college" in 2013"

In my opinion its too early to settle for "good enough". I say go for the best.

Check the profiles of people pursuing MBA from good colleges - they are heading departments in MNCs, are sons of Family owned businesses doing really good - In Networking is really important for your venture.

If you want to be in India, study in India.

coz with a Loan to be paid in Dollars and Salary in INR, brother you are inviting trouble your way :)
quote

hi all,
Instead of starting a new thread ...am posting by query here..which is somewhat similar.

I am frm India.. Engineering Grad
6+ years total work-ex (2 years in Steel Plant Industry & 4+ years in I.T Industry)
IELTS-8.0

Last 10 months I am out of work. Planning to do a postgraduate course. But confused with MBA and MSc.
What do you think suits my profile more? (according to UK job market)

P:S- Post my MBA/MSc, I am open for a job in UK or anywhere over the world for that matter.

hi all,
Instead of starting a new thread ...am posting by query here..which is somewhat similar.

I am frm India.. Engineering Grad
6+ years total work-ex (2 years in Steel Plant Industry & 4+ years in I.T Industry)
IELTS-8.0

Last 10 months I am out of work. Planning to do a postgraduate course. But confused with MBA and MSc.
What do you think suits my profile more? (according to UK job market)

P:S- Post my MBA/MSc, I am open for a job in UK or anywhere over the world for that matter.
quote
Duncan

MBA, obviously, since you have more than a few years' work experience.

MBA, obviously, since you have more than a few years' work experience.
quote

Thanks Duncan... I have 2 more queries:

1. In UK, for a management position vacancy, would they prefer the MBA or Msc degree holder? (..esp for UK)

2. Do the recruiters offer different salary for MBA and different for MSc for the same position of recruitment?

I heard MSc is quite popular in UK. So these questions are coming in my mind.

Thanks Duncan... I have 2 more queries:

1. In UK, for a management position vacancy, would they prefer the MBA or Msc degree holder? (..esp for UK)

2. Do the recruiters offer different salary for MBA and different for MSc for the same position of recruitment?

I heard MSc is quite popular in UK. So these questions are coming in my mind.
quote
Duncan

Recruiters prefer accredited degrees. Pre-experience candidates can only get MSc degrees and post-experience students typically take the MBA. For an actual role in management, and MBA is better since the candidate is older and more experiences. Salaries reflect that. There are unaccredited "freshers" MBAs aimed at pre-experience students. They get lower salaries than accredited MSc students.

Recruiters prefer accredited degrees. Pre-experience candidates can only get MSc degrees and post-experience students typically take the MBA. For an actual role in management, and MBA is better since the candidate is older and more experiences. Salaries reflect that. There are unaccredited "freshers" MBAs aimed at pre-experience students. They get lower salaries than accredited MSc students.
quote
Mamit

Thanks Duncan... I have 2 more queries:

1. In UK, for a management position vacancy, would they prefer the MBA or Msc degree holder? (..esp for UK)

2. Do the recruiters offer different salary for MBA and different for MSc for the same position of recruitment?

I heard MSc is quite popular in UK. So these questions are coming in my mind.


Since you have good work experience therefore I would strongly recommend for MBA over MSc provided you can afford, as MBA are twice as expensive then MSc, but at the same time salary package is higher for MBA graduates. and MBA will provide better opportunities both in UK and in India, Have you taken GMAT yet ??
Mamit

<blockquote>Thanks Duncan... I have 2 more queries:

1. In UK, for a management position vacancy, would they prefer the MBA or Msc degree holder? (..esp for UK)

2. Do the recruiters offer different salary for MBA and different for MSc for the same position of recruitment?

I heard MSc is quite popular in UK. So these questions are coming in my mind.</blockquote>

Since you have good work experience therefore I would strongly recommend for MBA over MSc provided you can afford, as MBA are twice as expensive then MSc, but at the same time salary package is higher for MBA graduates. and MBA will provide better opportunities both in UK and in India, Have you taken GMAT yet ??
Mamit
quote

hie..
Thanks guys for the replies...

I havent taken the GMAT...and I dont think I can with my busy work schedule.
Just taken the IELTS.

I have offers from:
Oxford Brookes University
Teeside University
Leeds Metropolitan University
London School of Business & Finance (LSBF)

Awaiting offers from:
Manchester Business School
Hult

hie..
Thanks guys for the replies...

I havent taken the GMAT...and I dont think I can with my busy work schedule.
Just taken the IELTS.

I have offers from:
Oxford Brookes University
Teeside University
Leeds Metropolitan University
London School of Business & Finance (LSBF)

Awaiting offers from:
Manchester Business School
Hult
quote
Mamit

All these program are non accredited and are not among the top ones. however MBS could be a good option, but its very expensive. There are few accredited B-Schools in UK, accepting applications without GMAT scores.
Mamit

All these program are non accredited and are not among the top ones. however MBS could be a good option, but its very expensive. There are few accredited B-Schools in UK, accepting applications without GMAT scores.
Mamit
quote
shantaram

KodeA,

Profuse apologies for the extremely delayed reply.

Yes, I had delayed my admissions.

I am a working partner in a firm which deals with the assembly and supply of electrical and mechanical equipment of various types to major Govt. of India owned organisations. I have been involved with this firm since 2005. I have learnt a lot over here and have implemented a lot of new strategies and streamlined processes to increase our profits over a period of time and also helped in the setting up of two new business centres.

My problem is I want to look at new ventures now, expand into other areas (Services, Manufacturing etc) and want newer ideas and inspiration. I also have learnt everything till date in a very 'hands-on' manner and when I speak to MBA graduates or people working in the corporate sector, I feel I have a certain handicap with respect to academics. (Usage of proper terms, various models at work etc). I completed my Lean Six Sigma certification (Green Belt) last year to alleviate some of these issues, but they haven't left me completely.

Also, our firm is classified as Small/Medium scale enterprise and I have interacted with a lot of other such owners/partners and have observed over a period of time that the organisational structure and process in this particular segment is rudimentary in nature and I want to help SME's to function in a more structured and 'corporate' way so that they maximize their profits and grow better in the long run.

Hence, the desire to do a MBA degree now.

I do agree that the Ivy league badge will of great help for me in the long run but I was thinking will do a proper full time degree now when I have the time, less of commitments (family,spouse etc) and then go for add on courses or even an EMBA if required in the future. As we do have so many options to choose from, and a lot of B-schools are now looking at tapping into the Indian market, I don't think that should be a problem.

Also, you are missing a small point I made about me wanting to work in a corporate house for a short span of time (4-5 years) to gain some insight into their way of functioning. I am of the opinion that a degree now will help in getting that role change and a managerial role in the near future.

Sorry for the long post but I thought if you knew more about my train of thought, you could advise me better!

KodeA,

Profuse apologies for the extremely delayed reply.

Yes, I had delayed my admissions.

I am a working partner in a firm which deals with the assembly and supply of electrical and mechanical equipment of various types to major Govt. of India owned organisations. I have been involved with this firm since 2005. I have learnt a lot over here and have implemented a lot of new strategies and streamlined processes to increase our profits over a period of time and also helped in the setting up of two new business centres.

My problem is I want to look at new ventures now, expand into other areas (Services, Manufacturing etc) and want newer ideas and inspiration. I also have learnt everything till date in a very 'hands-on' manner and when I speak to MBA graduates or people working in the corporate sector, I feel I have a certain handicap with respect to academics. (Usage of proper terms, various models at work etc). I completed my Lean Six Sigma certification (Green Belt) last year to alleviate some of these issues, but they haven't left me completely.

Also, our firm is classified as Small/Medium scale enterprise and I have interacted with a lot of other such owners/partners and have observed over a period of time that the organisational structure and process in this particular segment is rudimentary in nature and I want to help SME's to function in a more structured and 'corporate' way so that they maximize their profits and grow better in the long run.

Hence, the desire to do a MBA degree now.

I do agree that the Ivy league badge will of great help for me in the long run but I was thinking will do a proper full time degree now when I have the time, less of commitments (family,spouse etc) and then go for add on courses or even an EMBA if required in the future. As we do have so many options to choose from, and a lot of B-schools are now looking at tapping into the Indian market, I don't think that should be a problem.

Also, you are missing a small point I made about me wanting to work in a corporate house for a short span of time (4-5 years) to gain some insight into their way of functioning. I am of the opinion that a degree now will help in getting that role change and a managerial role in the near future.

Sorry for the long post but I thought if you knew more about my train of thought, you could advise me better!
quote

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