[email protected] Durham/Nottingham/Strathclyde


I have offers from all three universities for pursuing their MBA programs. I Understand that rankings do not speak the whole truth. Can experienced people share their thoughts about these MBA programs?

If one offered a significant scholarship, should I be inclined to go with that school?

I have offers from all three universities for pursuing their MBA programs. I Understand that rankings do not speak the whole truth. Can experienced people share their thoughts about these MBA programs?

If one offered a significant scholarship, should I be inclined to go with that school?
quote
Duncan

No. The scholarship  will be worth less than the difference in outcomes.  Focus on your goals.  Read the board about these schools. 

No. The scholarship  will be worth less than the difference in outcomes.  Focus on your goals.  Read the board about these schools. 
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mba hipste...

Durham would be better for most candidates. What are your goals? 

Durham would be better for most candidates. What are your goals? 
quote

Durham would be better for most candidates. What are your goals? 

I am from Bangladesh. No employers would value my UK MBA. Thus, I wish to work for at least 2 years in the Finance (my exp) or consulting sector in the U.K. I may even move to Canada if the employment situation at U.K. becomes impossible.

btw, should Brexit have negative implications on Scottish B-schools for internationals? I suspect, all EU citizens will target these schools as Scotland May remains a part of EU while England will not. What do u think?

[Edited by Khandkar Imran Bin Khaled on Jun 16, 2020]

[quote]Durham would be better for most candidates. What are your goals?&nbsp; [/quote]<br>I am from Bangladesh. No employers would value my UK MBA. Thus, I wish to work for at least 2 years in the Finance (my exp) or consulting sector in the U.K. I may even move to Canada if the employment situation at U.K. becomes impossible.<br><br>btw, should Brexit have negative implications on Scottish B-schools for internationals? I suspect, all EU citizens will target these schools as Scotland May remains a part of EU while England will not. What do u think?
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Duncan

I assume you mean that employers in Bangladesh would not put a *premium* value on a UK MBA. Surely, they would value it as the degree at least equal to a master from a local university?

I live in Scotland. It's obviously not possible that Scotland will *remain* in the EU. Scotland has, with the rest of the UK, left the EU, and the transition period will end later this year. Brexit is expected to have a negative effect on the UK economy. EU citizens will continue to target Scottish schools because they are free to EU undergraduates, and because Scotland has an image of being more open to foreigners (this sort of advertising from HSBC reflects that: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EUxT_9NWAAAR-YB.jpg ).

Did you consider just going directly to take an MBA or MSc in finance in Canada> It has more open immigration rules. 

I assume you mean that employers in Bangladesh would not put a *premium* value on a UK MBA. Surely, they would value it as the degree at least equal to a master from a local university?<br><br>I live in Scotland. It's obviously not possible that Scotland will *remain* in the EU. Scotland has, with the rest of the UK, left the EU, and the transition period will end later this year. Brexit is expected to have a negative effect on the UK economy. EU citizens will continue to target Scottish schools because they are free to EU undergraduates, and because Scotland has an image of being more open to foreigners (this sort of advertising from HSBC reflects that:&nbsp;<a href="https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EUxT_9NWAAAR-YB.jpg">https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EUxT_9NWAAAR-YB.jpg</a>&nbsp;).<br><br>Did you consider just going directly to take an MBA or MSc in finance in Canada&gt; It has more open immigration rules.&nbsp;
quote

Yes, Duncan, I meant *premium* value. Also, I am not that excited to study in Canada. Their universities, in general, tend to be far weaker in comparison to the UK. Besides, I believe education and employment shouldn't have geographical boundaries.

Oh, so Scotland is not getting divorced from the UK? That's great. However, I wasn't talking about EU students studying at UK universities. I was referring to post-study working opportunities. Previously, the EU graduates didn't need a work permit to work in the UK. So, they got an advantage over *Foreign* candidates. Please correct me if I am wrong. Let me illustrate the previous employer preferences:
UK grad>EU grad>International graduates

After Brexit:
UK grad>Europe & International graduates

Yes, Duncan, I meant *premium* value. Also, I am not that excited to study in Canada. Their universities, in general, tend to be far weaker in comparison to the UK. Besides, I believe education and employment shouldn't have geographical boundaries.<br><br>Oh, so Scotland is not getting divorced from the UK? That's great. However, I wasn't talking about EU students studying at UK universities. I was referring to post-study working opportunities. Previously, the EU graduates didn't need a work permit to work in the UK. So, they got an advantage over *Foreign* candidates. Please correct me if I am wrong. Let me illustrate the previous employer preferences:<br>UK grad&gt;EU grad&gt;International graduates<br><br>After Brexit:<br>UK grad&gt;Europe &amp; International graduates
quote
Duncan

Maybe Scotland will leave the UK, but no referendum is planned.

We're after Brexit now, and there's still a preference for EU hiring because EU people who come get pre-settled status and don't need a work permit. The deadline for that is 30 June 2021, and I expect there will be some favourable reciprocal arrangement after then. You can google all this yourself :)

Maybe Scotland will leave the UK, but no referendum is planned.<br><br>We're after Brexit now, and there's still a preference for EU hiring because EU people who come get pre-settled status and don't need a work permit.&nbsp;<span style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;">The&nbsp;</span><b style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;">deadline</b><span style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;">&nbsp;for that is 30 June 2021, and I expect there will be some favourable reciprocal arrangement after then. You can google all this yourself :)</span>
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Duncan, I believe the preference for EU grads cannot be as strong as before with the current UK point-based immigration system. I couldn't attach a pic for the ease of other viewers, but below is the link:
https://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/tutor2u-media/subjects/economics/seventy_points.jpg?mtime=20200220085628
A candidate needs 70 points to be eligible for immigration, while there is no cap for the number of immigrants accepted under the program. So, the main hurdle for UK immigration is primarily 25,600 pounds in job salary. 

Duncan, don't you think that if an outside EU candidate secures a post-MBA job with pay above the threshold salary, they can be considered the same as EU candidate? Please provide your view on this.

Duncan, I believe the preference for EU grads cannot be as strong as before with the current UK point-based immigration system. I couldn't attach a pic for the ease of other viewers, but below is the link:<br>https://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/tutor2u-media/subjects/economics/seventy_points.jpg?mtime=20200220085628<br>A candidate needs 70 points to be eligible for immigration, while there is no cap for the number of immigrants accepted under the program. So, the main hurdle for UK immigration is primarily 25,600 pounds in job salary.&nbsp;<br><br>Duncan, don't you think that if an outside EU candidate secures a post-MBA job with pay above the threshold salary, they can be considered the same as EU candidate? Please provide your view on this.
quote

I found it very difficult to obtain data on Nottingham MBA. It was quite highly ranked a decade ago as the graduates drew outstanding salaries, but now FT doesn't rank its program. The last MBA FT ranking done for the B-school was in 2009. I came up with a lot of explanations, but as suggested by Duncan, I sought further info from the business school. For candidates considering NUBS MBA program, below clarification should adjust your expectation:

"Over the past 5 years our average salaries for full time MBA graduates have ranged from £32.5k to £41k in the first 3 months of graduating in the past few years.  The salary you command with an MBA will very much depend on your previous experience, the field you go into, location, etc."

I want to add further that some graduates have secured jobs paying £55k, but that may be considered an outlier.

I found it very difficult to obtain data on Nottingham MBA. It was quite highly ranked a decade ago as the graduates drew outstanding salaries, but now FT doesn't rank its program. The last MBA FT ranking done for the B-school was in 2009. I came up with a lot of explanations, but as suggested by Duncan, I sought further info from the business school. For candidates considering NUBS MBA program, below clarification should adjust your expectation:<br><br>"Over the past 5 years our average salaries for full time MBA graduates have ranged from £32.5k to £41k in the first 3 months of graduating in the past few years.&nbsp; The salary you command with an MBA will very much depend on your previous experience, the field you go into, location, etc."<br><br>I want to add further that some graduates have secured jobs paying £55k, but that may be considered an outlier.
quote
Duncan

No, I don't think that EU/EEA citizens will face the same immigration constraints as non EEA people, so in practice the time and cost of work permits operates as a tax which reduces the market price of non-EU people. On top of that, you have to factor in acculturation and racism. 

Nottingham MBAs report lower average salaries than many MiM programmes. I wonder what percentage of people get work within a few months? 

No, I don't think that EU/EEA citizens will face the same immigration constraints as non EEA people, so in practice the time and cost of work permits operates as a tax which reduces the market price of non-EU people. On top of that, you have to factor in acculturation and racism.&nbsp;<br><br>Nottingham MBAs report lower average salaries than many MiM programmes. I wonder what percentage of people get work within a few months?&nbsp;
quote

What cost are you referring to? With the automatic 2 years PSW, there shouldn't be any cost to the employer for a work permit. Besides, isn't the immigration cost borne by the applicant? 


Nothing to say about the issue with acculturation and racism. It is something that will always be there.

[Edited by Khandkar Imran Bin Khaled on Jun 18, 2020]

What cost are you referring to? With the automatic 2 years PSW, there shouldn't be any cost to the employer for a work permit. Besides, isn't the immigration cost borne by the applicant?&nbsp;<br><br><br>Nothing to say about the issue with acculturation and racism. It is something that will always be there.
quote

No, I don't think that EU/EEA citizens will face the same immigration constraints as non EEA people, so in practice the time and cost of work permits operates as a tax which reduces the market price of non-EU people. On top of that, you have to factor in acculturation and racism. 

Nottingham MBAs report lower average salaries than many MiM programmes. I wonder what percentage of people get work within a few months? 

Yes, Nottingham MBA salary seems to be lower than some top undergraduates too. As reported by the university, Strathclyde engineering undergrads draw around £35k. 

I wonder what went wrong with the program. I really loved their campus, location, and other (lots of) support facilities. As per the Economist, 80% of their graduates received jobs within 3 months of graduating. As their class size is 35, 28 students found placement while 7 students did not. This might happen in an unusual year. But the expected salary range is a big shocker.  

As per the Economist 2019 ranking, however, their post-MBA salary is mentioned as $59,770. Strathclyde as $65,772, Durham as $66,210. This ranking doesn't seem to suggest such a huge difference in post-MBA salary. However, as MBA is a huge time and ambition commitment, its better to be on the safe side of things.

[quote]No, I don't think that EU/EEA citizens will face the same immigration constraints as non EEA people, so in practice the time and cost of work permits operates as a tax which reduces the market price of non-EU people. On top of that, you have to factor in acculturation and racism.&nbsp;<br><br>Nottingham MBAs report lower average salaries than many MiM programmes. I wonder what percentage of people get work within a few months?&nbsp; [/quote]<br>Yes, Nottingham MBA salary seems to be lower than some top undergraduates too. As reported by the university, Strathclyde engineering undergrads draw around&nbsp;£35k.&nbsp;<br><br>I wonder what went wrong with the program. I really loved their campus, location, and other (lots of) support facilities. As per the Economist, 80% of their graduates received jobs within 3 months of graduating. As their class size is 35, 28 students found placement while 7 students did not. This might happen in an unusual year. But the expected salary range is a big shocker. &nbsp;<br><br>As per the Economist 2019 ranking, however, their post-MBA salary is mentioned as $<span style="caret-color: rgb(80, 89, 92); color: rgb(80, 89, 92); font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13.4399995803833px; background-color: rgb(244, 248, 250);">59,770. Strathclyde as $</span><span style="caret-color: rgb(80, 89, 92); color: rgb(80, 89, 92); font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13.4399995803833px; background-color: rgb(244, 248, 250);">65,772, Durham as $</span><span style="caret-color: rgb(80, 89, 92); color: rgb(80, 89, 92); font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13.4399995803833px; background-color: rgb(244, 248, 250);">66,210. This ranking doesn't seem to suggest such a huge difference in post-MBA salary. However, as MBA is a huge time and ambition commitment, its better to be on the safe side of things.</span><br>
quote
Duncan

MBA students are acute consumers. Few of the MBA quality signals are attached to Nottingham, so it attracts other students. As a result, it cannot command a premium price and thus cannot deliver the enhanced support services of other schools, especially developing soft skills and careers support. 

My understanding is that 80% placement is something that they would brag about as a relatively good performance. 

MBA students are acute consumers. Few of the MBA quality signals are attached to Nottingham, so it attracts other students. As a result, it cannot command a premium price and thus cannot deliver the enhanced support services of other schools, especially developing soft skills and careers support.&nbsp;<br><br>My understanding is that 80% placement is something that they would brag about as a relatively good performance.&nbsp;
quote

Can anyone shed some light as to why Strathclyde fell off the FT ranks recently?

Can anyone shed some light as to why Strathclyde fell off the FT ranks recently?
quote
Duncan

Three reasons: European schools are generally falling as Asian schools rise; UK government's hostile environment makes employers hesitant to consider non-EU staff; When schools start to fall, strong applicants switch to safer schools leaving weaker candidates who have worse outcomes. 

Three reasons: European schools are generally falling as Asian schools rise; UK government's hostile environment makes employers hesitant to consider non-EU staff; When schools start to fall, strong applicants switch to safer schools leaving weaker candidates who have worse outcomes.&nbsp;
quote

So rankings are dynamic and highly numbers driven. From my research, I am grouping the UK MBAs in terms of reputation, salary expectation, and career prospects. Duncan please check:

LBS, Oxbridge
-Gap- 
-Gap-
Warwick, Imperial
Cranfield, Alliance, Cass
Durham, Strathclyde, Edinburgh, Lancaster
-gap-
-gap-
Glasgow, Leeds, Nottingham, Birmingham, etc.

[Edited by Khandkar Imran Bin Khaled on Jun 20, 2020]

So rankings are dynamic and highly numbers driven. From my research, I am grouping the UK MBAs in terms of reputation, salary expectation, and career prospects. Duncan please check:<br><br>LBS,&nbsp;Oxbridge<br>-Gap-&nbsp;<br>-Gap-<br>Warwick, Imperial<br>Cranfield, Alliance, Cass<br>Durham, Strathclyde, Edinburgh, Lancaster<br>-gap-<br>-gap-<br>Glasgow, Leeds, Nottingham, Birmingham, etc.<br>
quote
Duncan

In practice, I think you have to rank schools by their fit with the candidate's goals. Generally, the FT's audited salary data is a better guide than its ranking so...

- LBS
- Oxbridge
- Cass & Manchester [best for finance/big switches]
- Imperial and Warwick 
- Durham and Edinburgh. Cranfield is ranked there by QS.
- Lancaster, Bath, Strathclyde, Birmingham
- Henley, Hult, Kingston, RGU, Leeds, 
- Aston, Exeter, Nottingham Trent, Liverpool, Nottingham, Brunel
- Glasgow, Kent, Loughborough, Newcastle [maybe should be one higher], Sheffield

In practice, I think you have to rank schools by their fit with the candidate's goals. Generally, the FT's audited salary data is a better guide than its ranking so...<br><br>- LBS<br>- Oxbridge<br>- Cass &amp; Manchester [best for finance/big switches]<br>- Imperial and Warwick&nbsp;<br>- Durham and Edinburgh. Cranfield is ranked there by QS.<br>- Lancaster, Bath, Strathclyde, Birmingham<br>- Henley, Hult, Kingston, RGU, Leeds,&nbsp;<br>- Aston, Exeter, Nottingham Trent, Liverpool, Nottingham, Brunel<br>- Glasgow, Kent, Loughborough, Newcastle [maybe should be one higher], Sheffield
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