I am a 27 year old Indian student with an iMSM from UIUC and an undergraduate degree from a spanish b school. i am fluent in Italian and Spanish. My primary aim is to relocate from India and probably switch to retail or healthcare analytics. The only reason I am considering SMU is because they have been really generous with their scholarship and I kinda like the school tbh. My past experience includes a year at JLL in strategy consulting and a year in marketing analytics at Kering (the luxury group). I have also worked for a year with an Italian luxury brand as a project manager in India. I have also applied to ESCP Paris for their Msc in Big Data and have spoken to quite a few people from the school who hail from India and have managed to find jobs in France and Germany. I was told that my profile would be a good fit for ESCP or other french schools as I could secure a job at a firm like Kering, LVMH or Richemont post graduation, which is exactly what I want to do.

I was wondering if I should apply to other schools like Emlyon, Frankfurt School etc. I have a few months on hand before I start my masters so i can dedicate quite a bit of time to learning a new language for the next 4-6 months or so. I would have looked at schools like Bocconi and Esade but have already suffered the consequences of choosing a school in a country like Spain, where the job market is horrible for international students plus the salaries are low.



Both the SMU and UIUC programs are STEM designated so I could stay on in the US for 3 years post graduation. Unfortunately, the job market in the US seems to be terrible rn. I have not taken the GMAT and have currently quit my job and am deciding whether to learn a language, take the GMAT or do a job till August, which is when the semesters will start.

[Edited by Hik Fuh on Jan 23, 2024]

Is the job market in the US worse than in France or Germany *for Anglophones who don't speak French or German*? In four months of language learning while living in India, your French or German might still need improvement even to work in a coffee shop, and your language skills will not improve much in an intensive course taught in English.

SMU Cox is an excellent and rich business school, with superior resources and small class sizes. Ask them and the other schools for the placement stats for Asian students.

Is the job market in the US worse than in France or Germany *for Anglophones who don't speak French or German*? In four months of language learning while living in India, your French or German might still need improvement even to work in a coffee shop, and your language skills will not improve much in an intensive course taught in English.



SMU Cox is an excellent and rich business school, with superior resources and small class sizes. Ask them and the other schools for the placement stats for Asian students.

[Edited by Hik Fuh on Jan 23, 2024]

Take a look at Do you need to speak the local language? www.find-mba.com/board/34713 If you want to work in Europe and then return to India after a few years, then you don't need language skills. However, your target may not be back-office roles, after all. If you want to relocate and settle, then you need language skills and a setting that favors integration (you know already whether Italy or Spain are that setting!).

SMU is better than UIUC because it is a rich business school, with superior resources and smaller class sizes than UIUC.

An MS or MSc makes more sense because you can't get into to an MBA at such a good school as you can for an MSc.

The GMAT makes sense, but it might not take you three months to get a good score. See: https://find-mba.com/board/gmat/why-you-should-take-the-gmat-33542 Remember that your work experience automatically stands out in the applications for an MSc so you might not need an above-average GMAT.

I know a few friends working in analytics without speaking the language and mostly everyone has told me that the local language is not needed for IT and analytics roles but would be needed for consulting roles.

Take a look at Do you need to speak the local language? www.find-mba.com/board/34713 If you want to work in Europe and then return to India after a few years, then you don't need language skills. However, your target may not be back-office roles, after all. If you want to relocate and settle, then you need language skills and a setting that favors integration (you know already whether Italy or Spain are that setting!).

SMU is better than UIUC because it is a rich business school, with superior resources and smaller class sizes than UIUC.

An MS or MSc makes more sense because you can't get into to an MBA at such a good school as you can for an MSc.

The GMAT makes sense, but it might not take you three months to get a good score. See: https://find-mba.com/board/gmat/why-you-should-take-the-gmat-33542 Remember that your work experience automatically stands out in the applications for an MSc so you might not need an above-average GMAT.

This really depends on your goals, your connections, and your feelings about the DFW area. Personally, I would jump at SMU if they are positive about you. I studied less than 50 hours for the GMAT, and that was good enough for me.... but that depends on where you are coming from. Take a free practice test now (there are loads) and then see then you can get a test place for the GMAT.

If you get a place at NYU, and if that's a better option, then you can walk away from your deposit at SMU.

This really depends on your goals, your connections, and your feelings about the DFW area. Personally, I would jump at SMU if they are positive about you. I studied less than 50 hours for the GMAT, and that was good enough for me.... but that depends on where you are coming from. Take a free practice test now (there are loads) and then see then you can get a test place for the GMAT.

If you get a place at NYU, and if that's a better option, then you can walk away from your deposit at SMU.

Hi Duncan a bit of an update that has left me feeling even more confused. I got rejected by ESCP’s MSC in big data after the interview. The interview focused on why I wanted to do a masters with my experience and not an MBA or an executive MBA. They asked me how I would be able to integrate with people who had significantly lower work ex than me. I feel pretty sad because of the rejection cause I thought that I would be a good fit for ESCP given my background working for a french firm and my degree from Bocconi and my clear motivations about my post study goals which would’ve been doable from a university like ESCP. In your opinion should I ask them for feedback? I had heard that schools like ESCP give interviews only to students they are going to accept. 
Additionally SMU responded and has been very honest about dismal placements. They said that the looming recession has significantly hampered placements and a lot of their students are unplaced. I spoke to alumni of 2023 and many of them told me that a lot of people had to return to their home country due to not being able to find a job in the US. The case for 2022 was a lot different and the placement was 95 percent within 3 months then. However this is the case with other b schools in 2023 as well including people I spoke to from Duke, Emory etc.

 I have 3 job offers lined up and I am wondering if I should work for a year and then apply for a masters next year when the situation stabilises. 

[Edited by Hik Fuh on Feb 06, 2024]

With ESCP, it sounds like the agism that is so common in France.

The SMU insight is interesting. The USA is *not* in recession and is unlikely to enter one. What is happening is that tech firms that have moved to Texas, for employer-friendly laws and taxes, have laid off large numbers of staff there. Can you put percentages on "many" and "dismal"? Perhaps a bad year at SMU is still good. Are the current cohort getting internships?

Also consider the economy at the time you graduate. The hiring situation will be better in summer 2025 than now.

If you take a job offer, why not take a part time data science course?

Thanks Duncan. Feel pretty dejected by the ESCP rejection tbh. I have seen friends of mine going to EDHEC and Emlyon in their 30s so idk if there was something fundamentally wrong with my application or the interview.

SMU quoted an employment rate of 70 percent, which is a massive fall from the 95 percent in 2022. They also mentioned that tech recruitment is hard atm due to layoffs in the sector and students should be open to other industries. I spoke to UIUC and University of Maryland and both of them had similar responses of a tough time for analytics grads so its not only SMU.

My goal from a masters degree is to a) switch my location from India. With my level of work ex its hard to directly get something abroad at this point. b) switch to analytics. Goal is a bit more important to me. That is the only reason why I am a bit sceptical about accepting a role in India. Almost everyone has been telling me to forego my plan for a masters since I already have one from UIUC

With ESCP, it sounds like the agism that is so common in France.

The SMU insight is interesting. The USA is *not* in recession and is unlikely to enter one. What is happening is that tech firms that have moved to Texas, for employer-friendly laws and taxes, have laid off large numbers of staff there. Can you put percentages on "many" and "dismal"? Perhaps a bad year at SMU is still good. Are the current cohort getting internships?

Also consider the economy at the time you graduate. The hiring situation will be better in summer 2025 than now.

If you take a job offer, why not take a part time data science course?

Your application could have been flawed, but since they interviewed you, the application form was probably not the issue. A weak application form does not lead to an interview. However, the analytics programme at ESCP is one of its most selective: only one in ten got selected in prior years. However, its website showed an 89% placement in 2018 -- and I think they would offer a more recent year if one had better or similar numbers. That's close to the average percentage of employers looking to hire from such programmes (See https://www.gmac.com/-/media/files/gmac/research/prospective-student-data/2023_gmac_research_brief_businessmasters_draft_v3.pdf chart 8) and that percentage has dipped to 79% this year from 85%. It's important to get these declines in perspective, and relate them to your goals.



I've helped supervise two Indian students in MIlan over the past semester, from the SDA Bocconi Asia Campus in Mumbai. If think 230 or so came to Milan. It sounds like hardly any of them will be placed in Italy: India has much better opportunities for them, and job hunting in Europe is really labourious in comparison to India. So, that fall from 95% to 70% is important. However, [1] that 70% is a majority. That's a very good bet: more than two chances in three, and you know the economy will be better next year and [2] those people in the 30% will probaly find good outcomes in their home countries.



Since your goal is focussed on mobility, it's worth noting that the comparison with UIUC is mistaken since the iMSM doesn't come with OPT and is not designed to support migration. SMU is still a viable option and, since you know the job hunt will be hard, start on that sooner. Many Asian students are familiar with their domestic labour market for MIMs, MBAs or PGDs and, frankly, just don't have to work as hard to find work as they do to study if they want to work in theor domestic market. They don't develop world-class job-hunting skills easily. In the US, you must equally allocate effort to study and the job hunt. It's a second full-time job from the first day.

[Edited by Duncan on Feb 07, 2024]

My post above is a bit wordy. In a nutshell..
- ESCP dinged you because of the interview. Your application was strong. Other strong candidates just seemed better, probably because their motivations and attitudes suggest they would be easier to place with French employers.
- 70% placement from a regional school in a tech city, in a year famous for tech layoffs, is very good. Think about that rationally and put it in perspective.
- Start with the end in mind. Admissions are still open at most top programs, although MIT is closed. One alternative to Cox is not to wait a year, and instead apply to a better program like UCLA (100% placement of job seekers), UTA (98% in 2022), Purdue (which had 100% placement last year) or Minnesota (92%).

My post above is a bit wordy. In a nutshell..






- ESCP dinged you because of the interview. Your application was strong. Other strong candidates just seemed better, probably because their motivations and attitudes suggest they would be easier to place with French employers.






- 70% placement from a regional school in a tech city, in a year famous for tech layoffs, is very good. Think about that rationally and put it in perspective.






- Start with the end in mind. Admissions are still open at most top programs, although MIT is closed. One alternative to Cox is not to wait a year, and instead apply to a better program like UCLA (100% placement of job seekers), UTA (98% in 2022), Purdue (which had 100% placement last year) or Minnesota (92%).

[Edited by Hik Fuh on Feb 08, 2024]