Do the Indians that go to schools like IE and Esade actually manage to find jobs in Europe?


I know a lot of my friends who go to these schools from no-name colleges in India with a sub par GMAT score. I find it surprising that so many people blindly follow the FT rankings and feel that they can get a job in the US or Europe after graduating from a school like Esade or IE or ESCP. None of the LinkedIn profiles of the indian grads from these schools seemed to have gotten a job outside Bangalore or Delhi or Mumbai.

I had offers from UC3M, hec Lausanne, nova, polimi and catolica Lisbon. I was leaning towards uc3m or hec Lausanne. However, I took a job in luxury management instead and decided to forego my masters for a year till I take the GMAT.

Do you think average European schools would be a waste of time and money if I want to get a job in Europe? I have an undergrad from bocconi. Half of my friends from bocconi are in IE, esade or ESCP and they got admitted with below average grades and a very low GMAT. Should I aim for canada or NZ, if emigration is my aim?

Ofc, schools like LBS, insead and IMD have great outcomes regardless of nationality but what about euro schools which are a tier below?
Also, how good is UC3M for a master in finance?

[Edited by confusedcostanza on Sep 20, 2019]

I know a lot of my friends who go to these schools from no-name colleges in India with a sub par GMAT score. I find it surprising that so many people blindly follow the FT rankings and feel that they can get a job in the US or Europe after graduating from a school like Esade or IE or ESCP. None of the LinkedIn profiles of the indian grads from these schools seemed to have gotten a job outside Bangalore or Delhi or Mumbai.

I had offers from UC3M, hec Lausanne, nova, polimi and catolica Lisbon. I was leaning towards uc3m or hec Lausanne. However, I took a job in luxury management instead and decided to forego my masters for a year till I take the GMAT.

Do you think average European schools would be a waste of time and money if I want to get a job in Europe? I have an undergrad from bocconi. Half of my friends from bocconi are in IE, esade or ESCP and they got admitted with below average grades and a very low GMAT. Should I aim for canada or NZ, if emigration is my aim?

Ofc, schools like LBS, insead and IMD have great outcomes regardless of nationality but what about euro schools which are a tier below?
Also, how good is UC3M for a master in finance?
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Duncan
I imagine that few of these Indian students speak the local language, and thus return home to work.
I imagine that few of these Indian students speak the local language, and thus return home to work.
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I imagine that few of these Indian students speak the local language, and thus return home to work.
what about work visa problems in these countries?
[quote]I imagine that few of these Indian students speak the local language, and thus return home to work. [/quote] what about work visa problems in these countries?
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Duncan
My perception is that language skills are the real barrier. If the employer shows they can't find a better candidate then a work permit is just paperwork. https://find-mba.com/articles/post-mba-the-work-visa-rundown
My perception is that language skills are the real barrier. If the employer shows they can't find a better candidate then a work permit is just paperwork. https://find-mba.com/articles/post-mba-the-work-visa-rundown
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Ayon
Few pointers, not necessarily in any particular offer.

1) There is no escape from competition. The easier it is for anyone to get into a school, the harder it will be finding a job post graduation.

2) No name schools, Sub par GMAT score, Avg European schools. These are very generic terms, you asked a generic question with the expectation of a specific outcome - Indian grads from these schools don't get job outside of India. Seems like an obvious example of point 1. There are few exceptions. But no one really knows if they life journey will be the norm or the exception.

Over time the result / trajectory or norm vs exception changes. It was norm 8 years ago that everyone was getting jobs in US after getting their MBA from Tier2/3/4 schools. Now that's an exception in 2019.

3) Tier 2/3 Schools in EU are not getting tons of applications, are they? They'll be happy to take your money. Grades and GMAT although extremely important may not be everything the admissions committee looks into.

4) Should you aim for Canada or NZ? That's a major life decision. Don't go about it off of someone's advice over the internet. If you want to immigrate, then immigrate to your desired country. If you want to get your MBA then go for it. I advise people not to mix these two.

5) Companies hire people to who have a certain skillset that the company is trying to fill. What position do you want to work post your MBA/MSc? Do you have those skills now? Would your MBA/MSc help bridge the skill gap? Are those skillsets difficult to find or easily found among the local workforce?

e.g. Project Manager for Nuclear Waste Disposal vs Project Manager for townhouse construction.
Few pointers, not necessarily in any particular offer.

1) There is no escape from competition. The easier it is for anyone to get into a school, the harder it will be finding a job post graduation.

2) No name schools, Sub par GMAT score, Avg European schools. These are very generic terms, you asked a generic question with the expectation of a specific outcome - Indian grads from these schools don't get job outside of India. Seems like an obvious example of point 1. There are few exceptions. But no one really knows if they life journey will be the norm or the exception.

Over time the result / trajectory or norm vs exception changes. It was norm 8 years ago that everyone was getting jobs in US after getting their MBA from Tier2/3/4 schools. Now that's an exception in 2019.

3) Tier 2/3 Schools in EU are not getting tons of applications, are they? They'll be happy to take your money. Grades and GMAT although extremely important may not be everything the admissions committee looks into.

4) Should you aim for Canada or NZ? That's a major life decision. Don't go about it off of someone's advice over the internet. If you want to immigrate, then immigrate to your desired country. If you want to get your MBA then go for it. I advise people not to mix these two.

5) Companies hire people to who have a certain skillset that the company is trying to fill. What position do you want to work post your MBA/MSc? Do you have those skills now? Would your MBA/MSc help bridge the skill gap? Are those skillsets difficult to find or easily found among the local workforce?

e.g. Project Manager for Nuclear Waste Disposal vs Project Manager for townhouse construction.
quote
To get a job in Europe, post MBA, three things are very important.
1. Ability to speak the local language fluently. Even if major corporations use English as their official language of business, it is critically important that you are able to speak the local language. You need to have a decent amount of fluency. The reason being, if you are working in Germany, discussions will often switch to German from English. Generally all educated Germans speak English, but there will be terms and specific expressions that cannot be translated to English reliably. This is true especially if one wants to work in the consulting domain where they would need to work with a wide variety of people. If someone is working in a specific technical niche, they can get by with limited abilities to speak the local language. But not in other areas.
2. Connections. A lot depends on the amount of networking that you can do and the size of the network. In Europe, it takes a long time and lot of work for someone to trust you. A fancy degree may not be enough to sway anyone. It needs to be backed up with credible references. Things get easier if someone is vouching for you. In Germany or Switzerland, people will take time to trust you.
3. Having some niche skillset or differentiation from other candidates.
To get a job in Europe, post MBA, three things are very important.
1. Ability to speak the local language fluently. Even if major corporations use English as their official language of business, it is critically important that you are able to speak the local language. You need to have a decent amount of fluency. The reason being, if you are working in Germany, discussions will often switch to German from English. Generally all educated Germans speak English, but there will be terms and specific expressions that cannot be translated to English reliably. This is true especially if one wants to work in the consulting domain where they would need to work with a wide variety of people. If someone is working in a specific technical niche, they can get by with limited abilities to speak the local language. But not in other areas.
2. Connections. A lot depends on the amount of networking that you can do and the size of the network. In Europe, it takes a long time and lot of work for someone to trust you. A fancy degree may not be enough to sway anyone. It needs to be backed up with credible references. Things get easier if someone is vouching for you. In Germany or Switzerland, people will take time to trust you.
3. Having some niche skillset or differentiation from other candidates.
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Larry
Yes it's been discussed to death but knowing / speaking the local language fluently is the biggest barrier, and not something that can be obtained during one year of study. I imagine that there are those who make the transition without speaking the language fluently, but not many.

It's worth looking at the FT ranking in terms of international mobility - this gives you a good sense of what schools are best at helping to make the transition in general, and specifically to Europe. The Swiss schools like St. Gallen and IMD are at the top of the list. HEC, Insead, Mannheim, RSM, LBS, ESMT are next.

Just for comparison's sake (looking at a top ranked / expensive school): For the most recent Insead graduating class for example, 90% of the students from India ended up working abroad. They were the largest cohort of all ethnicities and the most likely to work abroad.
Yes it's been discussed to death but knowing / speaking the local language fluently is the biggest barrier, and not something that can be obtained during one year of study. I imagine that there are those who make the transition without speaking the language fluently, but not many.

It's worth looking at the FT ranking in terms of international mobility - this gives you a good sense of what schools are best at helping to make the transition in general, and specifically to Europe. The Swiss schools like St. Gallen and IMD are at the top of the list. HEC, Insead, Mannheim, RSM, LBS, ESMT are next.

Just for comparison's sake (looking at a top ranked / expensive school): For the most recent Insead graduating class for example, 90% of the students from India ended up working abroad. They were the largest cohort of all ethnicities and the most likely to work abroad.
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Duncan
Some of these schools do well because international students already speak the language. St Gallen is the most famous business school for many German speakers, so the school has a lot of German and Austrian students. HEC also attracts people from French speaking countries and regions.
Some of these schools do well because international students already speak the language. St Gallen is the most famous business school for many German speakers, so the school has a lot of German and Austrian students. HEC also attracts people from French speaking countries and regions.
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Ayon
Let me provide examples One that violate the "general rule of knowing local language" per se, and other that abides by it.

Both are from my undergrad university. One had extensive experience in Lean Six Sigma, he applied to Copenhagen Business School on my recommendation. He loved his time there, he got good amount of scholarship there. After graduation, he tried finding work in Denmark but that proved challenging - due to various factors - language being prime. However, because of his specialized skill set (e.g. LSS) he got an offer from a company in Sweden. He didn't change his function drastically. He worked in Process Improvement before, after MBA as well he is working in the same field/function but at a managerial position.

Another friend did his MBA from HEC Paris. He had underwriting experience in Insurance/Fin prior to MBA. After graduation he did a 6 month internship in Paris - again in underwriting. He came back to India and now is Assistant Vice President at an International Finance company.

Sometimes brand name plays a big roles, other times knowing local language. However the biggest role is played by skill set. Do you bring something so unique to the table that's absent in the local workforce? If answer is yes, then language, brand name, work permits can be overlooked.
Let me provide examples One that violate the "general rule of knowing local language" per se, and other that abides by it.

Both are from my undergrad university. One had extensive experience in Lean Six Sigma, he applied to Copenhagen Business School on my recommendation. He loved his time there, he got good amount of scholarship there. After graduation, he tried finding work in Denmark but that proved challenging - due to various factors - language being prime. However, because of his specialized skill set (e.g. LSS) he got an offer from a company in Sweden. He didn't change his function drastically. He worked in Process Improvement before, after MBA as well he is working in the same field/function but at a managerial position.

Another friend did his MBA from HEC Paris. He had underwriting experience in Insurance/Fin prior to MBA. After graduation he did a 6 month internship in Paris - again in underwriting. He came back to India and now is Assistant Vice President at an International Finance company.

Sometimes brand name plays a big roles, other times knowing local language. However the biggest role is played by skill set. Do you bring something so unique to the table that's absent in the local workforce? If answer is yes, then language, brand name, work permits can be overlooked.
quote
Razors Edg...
That's an interesting story about the guy finding work in Sweden. I guess the Copenhagen brand name probably had something to do with it.
That's an interesting story about the guy finding work in Sweden. I guess the Copenhagen brand name probably had something to do with it.
quote
Duncan
It sounds like his previous experience created that opportunity, not the MBA. If so, maybe a language course would have been a better investment.
It sounds like his previous experience created that opportunity, not the MBA. If so, maybe a language course would have been a better investment.
quote
Well I know many such examples from bocconi. One of my friends doesn't know italian and she is working at Citi Bank in london after her master's from bocconi. Another girl went to hec Lausanne and after an internship in Switzerland, she started working as a product manager at Unilever in Singapore. Two of my friends found jobs in Germany after studying for the economics for information tech masters at bocconi. I worked at Allianz in Milan without knowing any italian. There were many students from polimi and countries like Iran, Morocco who found intenrshitps and later jobs at Generali.
Well I know many such examples from bocconi. One of my friends doesn't know italian and she is working at Citi Bank in london after her master's from bocconi. Another girl went to hec Lausanne and after an internship in Switzerland, she started working as a product manager at Unilever in Singapore. Two of my friends found jobs in Germany after studying for the economics for information tech masters at bocconi. I worked at Allianz in Milan without knowing any italian. There were many students from polimi and countries like Iran, Morocco who found intenrshitps and later jobs at Generali.
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George Pat...
Well I know many such examples from bocconi. One of my friends doesn't know italian and she is working at Citi Bank in london after her master's from bocconi. Another girl went to hec Lausanne and after an internship in Switzerland, she started working as a product manager at Unilever in Singapore. Two of my friends found jobs in Germany after studying for the economics for information tech masters at bocconi. I worked at Allianz in Milan without knowing any italian. There were many students from polimi and countries like Iran, Morocco who found intenrshitps and later jobs at Generali.



I am certain you will find many more examples amongst the thousands of students that studied in europe, that landed jobs without knowing the local language.

However, when we are talking about your chances in landing a job in a country without knowing the language, we are talking about probability. There is of course a chance to find a job, anywhere, anytime, with or without MBA, with degree or without, knowing the language or not, etc etc etc.

What matters, for the purpose of these discussions is how high is the chance for this to happen. There is a chance yes, but it is not high.

Also note: The story is different if you are not looking for a job at the level of your MBA, but you just look to find "something" to make the transition to another country.
[quote]Well I know many such examples from bocconi. One of my friends doesn't know italian and she is working at Citi Bank in london after her master's from bocconi. Another girl went to hec Lausanne and after an internship in Switzerland, she started working as a product manager at Unilever in Singapore. Two of my friends found jobs in Germany after studying for the economics for information tech masters at bocconi. I worked at Allianz in Milan without knowing any italian. There were many students from polimi and countries like Iran, Morocco who found intenrshitps and later jobs at Generali. [/quote]


I am certain you will find many more examples amongst the thousands of students that studied in europe, that landed jobs without knowing the local language.

However, when we are talking about your chances in landing a job in a country without knowing the language, we are talking about probability. There is of course a chance to find a job, anywhere, anytime, with or without MBA, with degree or without, knowing the language or not, etc etc etc.

What matters, for the purpose of these discussions is how high is the chance for this to happen. There is a chance yes, but it is not high.

Also note: The story is different if you are not looking for a job at the level of your MBA, but you just look to find "something" to make the transition to another country.
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mba hipste...
Bocconi does (fairly) well in terms of international mobility. Some 80% of the class of 2018 ended up in Europe. This, given the fact that usually about half the class is of non-European origin, means that there is some flow. Agreed completely with George, though.
Bocconi does (fairly) well in terms of international mobility. Some 80% of the class of 2018 ended up in Europe. This, given the fact that usually about half the class is of non-European origin, means that there is some flow. Agreed completely with George, though.
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Duncan
Good point. 47% end up in Italy and 32% in the rest of Europe, compared to 27% being Italian and 17% being other Europeans.
Good point. 47% end up in Italy and 32% in the rest of Europe, compared to 27% being Italian and 17% being other Europeans.
quote
Where are these stats given?
Good point. 47% end up in Italy and 32% in the rest of Europe, compared to 27% being Italian and 17% being other Europeans.
Where are these stats given?[quote]Good point. 47% end up in Italy and 32% in the rest of Europe, compared to 27% being Italian and 17% being other Europeans. [/quote]
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Larry
I was able to fairly quickly find Bocconi's 2018 career report, which backs up hipster's statistics:

https://www.sdabocconi.it/upl/entities/general/pdf/ftmba_career_report_sda_bocconi_2018.pdf
I was able to fairly quickly find Bocconi's 2018 career report, which backs up hipster's statistics:

https://www.sdabocconi.it/upl/entities/general/pdf/ftmba_career_report_sda_bocconi_2018.pdf
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Can I ask which European MBA programs are good if I want to move back to India after graduating? I want to study abroad.
Can I ask which European MBA programs are good if I want to move back to India after graduating? I want to study abroad.
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mba hipste...
Research LinkedIn to see what schools have the biggest alumni networks in India.

I would imagine the higher ranked the school, the wider / bigger alumni network they would have.

Schools like Bocconi, which have actually established campuses in India, would also be good choices.

And finally, look at schools that have built relationships with b-schools in India. EDHEC for instance has an international partnership with ISB, allowing for international study trips, etc.
Research LinkedIn to see what schools have the biggest alumni networks in India.

I would imagine the higher ranked the school, the wider / bigger alumni network they would have.

Schools like Bocconi, which have actually established campuses in India, would also be good choices.

And finally, look at schools that have built relationships with b-schools in India. EDHEC for instance has an international partnership with ISB, allowing for international study trips, etc.
quote

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