Career crossroads (unsure which road to take)


Hi everyone,


Just a post for advice on which route to take. I'm working in aviation over 20 years and looking for a change of career and to propel into a better position, perhaps even start my own business preferably in S.E Asia like Singapore, Malaysia or Thailand. Aviation is a tiny market, so I'm looking to expand my horizons. Anyhow, I'm fluctuating between an MBA (online) and the MSC withh HEC in innovation and entrepreneurship. I'm just not sure that either with give enough "oomph" to secure a position later. I'm an expat (UK) living in Central Asia. Also, I'm a single male, 41 yo.





Thank you 1f642

[Edited by Richard Barrett on Jan 12, 2023]

Hi everyone,<br><br>
Just a post for advice on which route to take. I'm working in aviation over 20 years and looking for a change of career and to propel into a better position, perhaps even start my own business preferably in S.E Asia like Singapore, Malaysia or Thailand. Aviation is a tiny market, so I'm looking to expand my horizons. Anyhow, I'm fluctuating between an MBA (online) and the MSC withh HEC in innovation and entrepreneurship. I'm just not sure that either with give enough "oomph" to secure a position later. I'm an expat (UK) living in Central Asia. Also, I'm a single male, 41 yo.<br><br>
<br><br>
Thank you&nbsp;:slightly-smiling-face:
quote

I have done an LLM online and currently working on my MBA with face to face workshops. In terms of building a network and sharing experiences I have found the face to face elements invaluable and it made me realise how much I missed out during my LLM. Of course everyone has their own reasons for choice of course, I just want to share what I learnt from both perspectives especially as the network will help when setting up your own business.

[Edited by MBA podcaster on Jan 12, 2023]

I have done an LLM online and currently working on my MBA with face to face workshops. In terms of building a network and sharing experiences I have found the face to face elements invaluable and it made me realise how much I missed out during my LLM. Of course everyone has their own reasons for choice of course, I just want to share what I learnt from both perspectives especially as the network will help when setting up your own business.
quote

Hey, thanks for the reply. I'm leaning towards the Maastrict MBA as it is a good price, and involves interaction weeks on campus. I think the Dutch are a pragmatic people in general and offer value for money. 

Hey, thanks for the reply. I'm leaning towards the Maastrict MBA as it is a good price, and involves interaction weeks on campus. I think the Dutch are a pragmatic people in general and offer value for money.&nbsp;<br><br>
quote
Duncan

I assume you mean the MSM MBA rather than the University of Maastricht. Do either of these schools have notable alumni networks in your target countries? I would consider online options with teaching hubs in south-east Asia (many of which are also run in the Gulf, which could be easier for you to get to). Bradford, Cass, Manchester, SMU, Strathclyde etc come to mind. If you could attend in block weeks, the Nottingham MBA in Malaysia could be an optionn

I assume you mean the MSM MBA rather than the University of Maastricht. Do either of these schools have notable alumni networks in your target countries? I would consider online options with teaching hubs in south-east Asia (many of which are also run in the Gulf, which could be easier for you to get to). Bradford, Cass, Manchester, SMU, Strathclyde etc come to mind. If you could attend in block weeks, the Nottingham MBA in Malaysia could be an optionn
quote

I assume you mean the MSM MBA rather than the University of Maastricht. Do either of these schools have notable alumni networks in your target countries? I would consider online options with teaching hubs in south-east Asia (many of which are also run in the Gulf, which could be easier for you to get to). Bradford, Cass, Manchester, SMU, Strathclyde etc come to mind. If you could attend in block weeks, the Nottingham MBA in Malaysia could be an optionn


Hey Duncan, thanks for your comments and advice.

Firstly, I'd say that I'm going to avoid UK universities altogether. Having experienced 2 already, I found they are living off their branding and delivering a very basic product. I understand what you mean about the schools combining in Asia which could open doors. However, I think they are just aimed for locals. Also, after doing some brief research, Nottingham doesn't have triple accreditation, nor is it online.Furthermore, Singapore universities might be an option but don't think any can be completed online.

The MSM MBA is online, but also involves 3 week long meets in europe in 24 months. The MBA is fairly well ranked, price competitive, triple accredited, and average weekly study hours are doable for me. After doing over 2 years of research on and off, this MSM MBA seems to be the best option that suits my lifestyle (and my goodness has it been a long search) :)

If I don't get accepted for whatever reason, I might look at the HEC Innovation and entrepreneurship MSc. 

[Edited by Richard Barrett on Jan 15, 2023]

[quote]I assume you mean the MSM MBA rather than the University of Maastricht. Do either of these schools have notable alumni networks in your target countries? I would consider online options with teaching hubs in south-east Asia (many of which are also run in the Gulf, which could be easier for you to get to). Bradford, Cass, Manchester, SMU, Strathclyde etc come to mind. If you could attend in block weeks, the Nottingham MBA in Malaysia could be an optionn [/quote]<br><br>Hey Duncan, thanks for your comments and advice.<br><br>Firstly, I'd say that I'm going to avoid UK universities altogether. Having experienced 2 already, I found they are living off their branding and delivering a very basic product. I understand what you mean about the schools combining in Asia which could open doors. However, I think they are just aimed for locals. Also, after doing some brief research, Nottingham doesn't have triple accreditation, nor is it online.Furthermore, Singapore universities might be an option but don't think any can be completed online.<br><br>The MSM MBA is online, but also involves 3 week long meets in europe in 24 months. The MBA is fairly well ranked, price competitive, triple accredited, and average weekly study hours are doable for me. After doing over 2 years of research on and off, this MSM MBA seems to be the best option that suits my lifestyle (and my goodness has it been a long search) :)<br><br>If I don't get accepted for whatever reason, I might look at the HEC Innovation and entrepreneurship MSc.&nbsp;
quote
Duncan

Could you be making a rather sweeping generalisation about UK MBAs on the basis of your limited personal experience? It's hard to explain the self-evident outcomes of top UK MBAs if you think these are weak programmes. 

The Nottingham MBA does have tripple accreditation. As I explained, it is taught in short blocks both in Malaysia and Singapore. 

Is it really a weakness if a school is focussed on serving students in south-east Asia? You want to work there. A school with relationships with employers in the region and a more extensive alumni network could be an asset. 

I think you need to focus on the reality that business schools generally serve profoundly local labour markets. Few employers care if a school they are unaware of is triple accredited: this is more or a signal to applicants and international faculty than to employers. MSM might be economical, but it could offer poor value to money if it doesn't have a better than average alignment to your goals. 

Could you be making a rather sweeping generalisation about UK MBAs on the basis of your limited personal experience? It's hard to explain the self-evident outcomes of top UK MBAs if you think these are weak programmes.&nbsp;<br><br>The Nottingham MBA does have tripple accreditation. As I explained, it is taught in short blocks both in Malaysia and Singapore.&nbsp;<br><br>Is it really a weakness if a school is focussed on serving students in south-east Asia? You want to work there. A school with relationships with employers in the region and a more extensive alumni network could be an asset.&nbsp;<br><br>I think you need to focus on the reality that business schools generally serve profoundly local labour markets. Few employers care if a school they are unaware of is triple accredited: this is more or a signal to applicants and international faculty than to employers. MSM might be economical, but it could offer poor value to money if it doesn't have a better than average alignment to your goals.&nbsp;
quote

Could you be making a rather sweeping generalisation about UK MBAs on the basis of your limited personal experience? It's hard to explain the self-evident outcomes of top UK MBAs if you think these are weak programmes. 

The Nottingham MBA does have tripple accreditation. As I explained, it is taught in short blocks both in Malaysia and Singapore. 

Is it really a weakness if a school is focussed on serving students in south-east Asia? You want to work there. A school with relationships with employers in the region and a more extensive alumni network could be an asset. 

I think you need to focus on the reality that business schools generally serve profoundly local labour markets. Few employers care if a school they are unaware of is triple accredited: this is more or a signal to applicants and international faculty than to employers. MSM might be economical, but it could offer poor value to money if it doesn't have a better than average alignment to your goals. 


Ok, well my mistake about the Nottingham one. I actually think that might be a very good option, thanks! 
Regarding UK universities, put yourself in my shoes. I went through two of them (high ranking) and ultimately thought they were awful. Am I gonna make the same mistake a third time,or take a chance on another? In any case, I've no intention of ever living in the UK.
That Nottingham one might be a good move as you'd be able network with an alumni in SE Asia.

By the way, I'm not saying all UK universities are bad, it's just that you'd probably have to be paying into one of the Top tier ones like LSE or LBS to get quality. These are out of my price range. I've already been through City/Cass, never gain.

[Edited by Richard Barrett on Jan 15, 2023]

[quote]Could you be making a rather sweeping generalisation about UK MBAs on the basis of your limited personal experience? It's hard to explain the self-evident outcomes of top UK MBAs if you think these are weak programmes.&nbsp;<br><br>The Nottingham MBA does have tripple accreditation. As I explained, it is taught in short blocks both in Malaysia and Singapore.&nbsp;<br><br>Is it really a weakness if a school is focussed on serving students in south-east Asia? You want to work there. A school with relationships with employers in the region and a more extensive alumni network could be an asset.&nbsp;<br><br>I think you need to focus on the reality that business schools generally serve profoundly local labour markets. Few employers care if a school they are unaware of is triple accredited: this is more or a signal to applicants and international faculty than to employers. MSM might be economical, but it could offer poor value to money if it doesn't have a better than average alignment to your goals.&nbsp; [/quote]<br><br>Ok, well my mistake about the Nottingham one. I actually think that might be a very good option, thanks!&nbsp;<br>Regarding UK universities, put yourself in my shoes. I went through two of them (high ranking) and ultimately thought they were awful. Am I gonna make the same mistake a third time,or take a chance on another? In any case, I've no intention of ever living in the UK.<br>That Nottingham one might be a good move as you'd be able network with an alumni in SE Asia.<br><br>By the way, I'm not saying all UK universities are bad, it's just that you'd probably have to be paying into one of the Top tier ones like LSE or LBS to get quality. These are out of my price range. I've already been through City/Cass, never gain.
quote
Duncan

What about Cass disappointed you specifically? The admissions, administration, teaching, cohort, assessment or resources? 

What about Cass disappointed you specifically? The admissions, administration, teaching, cohort, assessment or resources?&nbsp;
quote

What about Cass disappointed you specifically? The admissions, administration, teaching, cohort, assessment or resources? 


It was actually City, but Cass and City are the same entity. A number of things really, the admissions was a mess, rude, arrogant, passive agressive, unprofessional. Two course directors, one was the biggest bluffer I ever met. The other was breathtakingly rude and arrogant. The actual tutoring/content/campus set up was fine to be honest though. Also, career support was non existent, no tangible opportunities presented, no links with industry, no help with forming a career direction. The course director strategy was to just baffle students with bs and hopefully they eventually stop bothering him. Basically, in finding a job, your on your own. Alumni network meant nothing either, just a marketing fad. 
Ultimately, I got the feeling that in the UK it is just a very expensive cash cow that delivers very little thereafter. I'm under no illusion that it is similar everywhere. However, I do think there is a certain misplaced arrogance in England, where universities are still getting mileage from their brands, but fail to deliver tangible prospects. From talking to other students in my cohort, they feeling was similar. However, maybe I'm just being negative 1f60a

Just checked out the Nottingham MBA in more detail. If I was to sign up, it would be at least 12 trips to KL/Singapore over a 2-4 year period. Probably translating into an extra 20k plus annual leave use. It would be a good way to network, but financially makes no sense. If I already lived in SE Asia it would be definately worth considering.

[Edited by Richard Barrett on Jan 16, 2023]

[quote]What about Cass disappointed you specifically? The admissions, administration, teaching, cohort, assessment or resources?&nbsp; [/quote]<br><br>It was actually City, but Cass and City are the same entity. A number of things really, the admissions was a mess, rude, arrogant, passive agressive, unprofessional. Two course directors, one was the biggest bluffer I ever met. The other was breathtakingly rude and arrogant. The actual tutoring/content/campus set up was fine to be honest though. Also, career support was non existent, no tangible opportunities presented, no links with industry, no help with forming a career direction. The course director strategy was to just baffle students with bs and hopefully they eventually stop bothering him. Basically, in finding a job, your on your own. Alumni network meant nothing either, just a marketing fad.&nbsp;<br>Ultimately, I got the feeling that in the UK it is just a very expensive cash cow that delivers very little thereafter. I'm under no illusion that it is similar everywhere. However, I do think there is a certain misplaced arrogance in England, where universities are still getting mileage from their brands, but fail to deliver tangible prospects. From talking to other students in my cohort, they feeling was similar. However, maybe I'm just being negative&nbsp;:blush:<br><br>Just checked out the Nottingham MBA in more detail. If I was to sign up, it would be at least 12 trips to KL/Singapore over a 2-4 year period. Probably translating into an extra 20k plus annual leave use. It would be a good way to network, but financially makes no sense. If I already lived in SE Asia it would be definately worth considering.
quote
Duncan

As an alumnus, I think Bayes/Cass is quite different from the rest of City. A large part of City is focussed on serving the NHS, and much of the undergraduate education is not highly selective. Bayes on the other hand has much higher fees, way better resources, and a much higher standard of research. 

Maybe Manchester in Singapore is a better option? 

As an alumnus, I think Bayes/Cass is quite different from the rest of City. A large part of City is focussed on serving the NHS, and much of the undergraduate education is not highly selective. Bayes on the other hand has much higher fees, way better resources, and a much higher standard of research.&nbsp;<br><br>Maybe Manchester in Singapore is a better option?&nbsp;
quote

As an alumnus, I think Bayes/Cass is quite different from the rest of City. A large part of City is focussed on serving the NHS, and much of the undergraduate education is not highly selective. Bayes on the other hand has much higher fees, way better resources, and a much higher standard of research. 

Maybe Manchester in Singapore is a better option? 


I don't really know about Bayes to be honest. However, I have no interest in ever living in England so no point even considering any universities there.
The manchester one in SG looks good, but probably if your either living there or in a neighbouring country. If I was in a more comfortable place in my career/profession I might consider it in SG, meaning if I worked for a good company with a supportive management I would have some breathing space and with the company on my side.
In my current role its the opposite with tyrannical management and high working hours. 

The MSM MBA seems to be by far the best option for me currently.

[quote]As an alumnus, I think Bayes/Cass is quite different from the rest of City. A large part of City is focussed on serving the NHS, and much of the undergraduate education is not highly selective. Bayes on the other hand has much higher fees, way better resources, and a much higher standard of research.&nbsp;<br><br>Maybe Manchester in Singapore is a better option?&nbsp; [/quote]<br><br>I don't really know about Bayes to be honest. However, I have no interest in ever living in England so no point even considering any universities there.<br>The manchester one in SG looks good, but probably if your either living there or in a neighbouring country. If I was in a more comfortable place in my career/profession I might consider it in SG, meaning if I worked for a good company with a supportive management I would have some breathing space and with the company on my side.<br>In my current role its the opposite with tyrannical management and high working hours.&nbsp;<br><br>The MSM MBA seems to be by far the best option for me currently.
quote
Duncan

I think you might be underestimating the value of having a school with an active alumni network in the region where you want to work. There are so many schools in the region with online programmes or hybrid programmes. 

I think you might be underestimating the value of having a school with an active alumni network in the region where you want to work. There are so many schools in the region with online programmes or hybrid programmes.&nbsp;
quote

I attended my first Manchester alumni event in December and it was a fantastic networking opportunity, something very important to me.

I attended my first Manchester alumni event in December and it was a fantastic networking opportunity, something very important to me.
quote

I think you might be underestimating the value of having a school with an active alumni network in the region where you want to work. There are so many schools in the region with online programmes or hybrid programmes. 


Thanks Duncan. Yes I'm still really not sure. When I studied in London, "Networking" really meant nothing, because we were all ultimately going to be competing for the same jobs moreorless. I defiinately met some great people but nothing ever materialised for me from networking, neither did being an alumni. Granted it was an MSc I did, and not an MBA.

Perhaps networking is different for an MBA. I can't see how to be honest, but it must be, unless it is just a marketing fad.

[quote]I think you might be underestimating the value of having a school with an active alumni network in the region where you want to work. There are so many schools in the region with online programmes or hybrid programmes.&nbsp; [/quote]<br><br>Thanks Duncan. Yes I'm still really not sure. When I studied in London, "Networking" really meant nothing, because we were all ultimately going to be competing for the same jobs moreorless. I defiinately met some great people but nothing ever materialised for me from networking, neither did being an alumni. Granted it was an MSc I did, and not an MBA.<br><br>Perhaps networking is different for an MBA. I can't see how to be honest, but it must be, unless it is just a marketing fad.
quote

I attended my first Manchester alumni event in December and it was a fantastic networking opportunity, something very important to me.


Excellent! I was in correspondance with the Manchester MBA sales team and even speak to the head of the team. I can't remeber the exact details of the conversation, but remember not being convinced. It seemed heavy on hot air and nothing tangible or substantial. 

[quote]I attended my first Manchester alumni event in December and it was a fantastic networking opportunity, something very important to me. [/quote]<br><br>Excellent! I was in correspondance with the Manchester MBA sales team and even speak to the head of the team. I can't remeber the exact details of the conversation, but remember not being convinced. It seemed heavy on hot air and nothing tangible or substantial.&nbsp;
quote

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