Best MiM option?


IESE MiM
ESMT MiM
UClouvain + Nova SBE double degree

EU student but only speak english, what is best for a good career ideally in the nordics/western europe.

IESE MiM
ESMT MiM
UClouvain + Nova SBE double degree

EU student but only speak english, what is best for a good career ideally in the nordics/western europe.
quote
StuartHE

This is fundamentally a question about which of the local languages you speak. If you don't speak any of them, learn the language first if you don't want to return to your own country.

This is fundamentally a question about which of the local languages you speak. If you don't speak any of them, learn the language first if you don't want to return to your own country.
quote

This is fundamentally a question about which of the local languages you speak. If you don't speak any of them, learn the language first if you don't want to return to your own country.


As mentioned prior, I only speak English fluently currently and as such am looking for a university which has a reach strong enough in western/nordic europe where i can get a job with my limited language skills. IESE immediately seems the best university but the MiM programme is new -- what are your thoughts?

[quote]This is fundamentally a question about which of the local languages you speak. If you don't speak any of them, learn the language first if you don't want to return to your own country. [/quote]<br><br>As mentioned prior, I only speak English fluently currently and as such am looking for a university which has a reach strong enough in western/nordic europe where i can get a job with my limited language skills. IESE immediately seems the best university but the MiM programme is new -- what are your thoughts?<br>
quote
StuartHE

The IESE MiM is excellent, but Europe has a profoundly national labour market and language barriers are notable. Study where you want to work. It's hard to imagine a firm that would hire in Madrid for the Nordic region. Denmark, Germany and the Netherlands look like good options: https://www.statista.com/statistics/268830/unemployment-rate-in-eu-countries/ 

The IESE MiM is excellent, but Europe has a profoundly national labour market and language barriers are notable. Study where you want to work. It's hard to imagine a firm that would hire in Madrid for the Nordic region. Denmark, Germany and the Netherlands look like good options: https://www.statista.com/statistics/268830/unemployment-rate-in-eu-countries/&nbsp;
quote

The IESE MiM is excellent, but Europe has a profoundly national labour market and language barriers are notable. Study where you want to work. It's hard to imagine a firm that would hire in Madrid for the Nordic region. Denmark, Germany and the Netherlands look like good options: https://www.statista.com/statistics/268830/unemployment-rate-in-eu-countries/ 



Very astute point regarding the national labour market of europe. With that in mind, ESMT is nearly x3 more expensive relative to IESE -- would the international mobility of IESE be that detrimental to finding a job in the nordics/western europe that I should forego the cheaper (and arguably better quality) of IESE for ESMT? appreciate all your insight!

[quote]The IESE MiM is excellent, but Europe has a profoundly national labour market and language barriers are notable. Study where you want to work. It's hard to imagine a firm that would hire in Madrid for the Nordic region. Denmark, Germany and the Netherlands look like good options: https://www.statista.com/statistics/268830/unemployment-rate-in-eu-countries/&nbsp; [/quote]<br><br><br>Very astute point regarding the national labour market of europe. With that in mind, ESMT is nearly x3 more expensive relative to IESE -- would the international mobility of IESE be that detrimental to finding a job in the nordics/western europe that I should forego the cheaper (and arguably better quality) of IESE for ESMT? appreciate all your insight!<br>
quote
Duncan

The MiM is €29.5k at ESMT and €40.5k at IESE. How is that three times more expensive? If you want to work in a country where you don't already speak the business language, don't take an expensive MiM taught in English. Spend a year in a secondary city's state university (a city where you can't speak English all the time, so not a capital city or a huge tourist hub) for an intensive language course.

The MiM is €29.5k at ESMT and €40.5k at IESE. How is that three times more expensive? If you want to work in a country where you don't already speak the business language, don't take an expensive MiM taught in English. Spend a year in a secondary city's state university (a city where you can't speak English all the time, so not a capital city or a huge tourist hub) for an intensive language course.
quote
Duncan

Read this thread: Do you need to speak the local language? www.find-mba.com/board/34713 

Read this thread: Do you need to speak the local language?&nbsp;www.find-mba.com/board/34713&nbsp;
quote

The MiM is €29.5k at ESMT and €40.5k at IESE. How is that three times more expensive? If you want to work in a country where you don't already speak the business language, don't take an expensive MiM taught in English. Spend a year in a secondary city's state university (a city where you can't speak English all the time, so not a capital city or a huge tourist hub) for an intensive language course.



Hey Duncan. You are correct in respect to the full tuition fees, however for some reason you made the immediate assumption that I was 100% incorrect in my statement -- I received a scholarship at IESE which makes it significantly cheaper and hardly "expensive" (and consequently x3 less than ESMT). Based on your advice you suggest I forego these graduate opportunities and pursue intensive language courses. Which in my personal situation doesn't seem like the best path forward as I don't want to postpone my graduate studies! I do appreciate your insight however, it is very much an understandable rule of thumb -- if you have any other insight in this regard it is very welcome!

[quote]The MiM is €29.5k at ESMT and €40.5k at IESE. How is that three times more expensive? If you want to work in a country where you don't already speak the business language, don't take an expensive MiM taught in English. Spend a year in a secondary city's state university (a city where you can't speak English all the time, so not a capital city or a huge tourist hub) for an intensive language course. [/quote]<br><br><br>Hey Duncan. You are correct in respect to the full tuition fees, however for some reason you made the immediate assumption that I was 100% incorrect in my statement -- I received a scholarship at IESE which makes it significantly cheaper and hardly "expensive" (and consequently x3 less than ESMT). Based on your advice you suggest I forego these graduate opportunities and pursue intensive language courses. Which in my personal situation doesn't seem like the best path forward as I don't want to postpone my graduate studies! I do appreciate your insight however, it is very much an understandable rule of thumb -- if you have any other insight in this regard it is very welcome!<br>
quote
Duncan

Without sounding defensive, I did ask a question rather than assume you were wrong. IESE has generous scholarships, especially for people with Opus Dei connections. The north of Europe is a big place. Germany has a huge advantage over the Nordic region because of generally lower unemployment (especially in the West) and the large size of the German-speaking region. German is also a key to Dutch and the Scandinavian languages. 

Without sounding defensive, I did ask a question rather than assume you were wrong. IESE has generous scholarships, especially for people with Opus Dei connections. The north of Europe is a big place. Germany has a huge advantage over the Nordic region because of generally lower unemployment (especially in the West) and the large size of the German-speaking region. German is also a key to Dutch and the Scandinavian languages.&nbsp;
quote
DACHMBA

In this situation my advice for you would be simple:
Take IESE and never look back. IESE has more than enough brand power to shine in the nordics / western Europe and a substantially larger alumni base in relevant jobs due to the longstanding MBA history.
ESMT is at least in this universe no match.

You could add some nordics flavour to your selection (i.e. SSE) - this would maybe change my opinion but with this selection? Easy IESE pick.

[Edited by DACHMBA on Mar 11, 2022]

In this situation my advice for you would be simple:<br>Take IESE and never look back. IESE has more than enough brand power to shine in the nordics / western Europe and a substantially larger alumni base in relevant jobs due to the longstanding MBA history.<br>ESMT is at least in this universe no match.<br><br>You could add some nordics flavour to your selection (i.e. SSE) - this would maybe change my opinion but with this selection? Easy IESE pick.<br>
quote
DACHMBA

The IESE MiM is excellent, but Europe has a profoundly national labour market and language barriers are notable. Study where you want to work. It's hard to imagine a firm that would hire in Madrid for the Nordic region. Denmark, Germany and the Netherlands look like good options: https://www.statista.com/statistics/268830/unemployment-rate-in-eu-countries/ 


Will a small SME recruit from IESE for Germany? Nope. Will a substantial player (consulting, finance, Tech, ...) recruit from IESE for Germany et al? Definitely! The current career fair features plenty of German employers (also probably fostered due to the IESE campus in Munich).

[quote]The IESE MiM is excellent, but Europe has a profoundly national labour market and language barriers are notable. Study where you want to work. It's hard to imagine a firm that would hire in Madrid for the Nordic region. Denmark, Germany and the Netherlands look like good options: https://www.statista.com/statistics/268830/unemployment-rate-in-eu-countries/&nbsp; [/quote]<br><br>Will a small SME recruit from IESE for Germany? Nope. Will a substantial player (consulting, finance, Tech, ...) recruit from IESE for Germany et al? Definitely! The current career fair features plenty of German employers (also probably fostered due to the IESE campus in Munich).
quote
StuartHE

Will a German consulting company hire someone from Spain who does not speak German? ESMT is more highly ranked than any other German or Spanish MiM. https://rankings.ft.com/rankings/5/masters-in-management-2021 

Will a German consulting company hire someone from Spain who does not speak German? ESMT is more highly ranked than any other German or Spanish MiM. https://rankings.ft.com/rankings/5/masters-in-management-2021&nbsp;
quote

The IESE MiM is excellent, but Europe has a profoundly national labour market and language barriers are notable. Study where you want to work. It's hard to imagine a firm that would hire in Madrid for the Nordic region. Denmark, Germany and the Netherlands look like good options: https://www.statista.com/statistics/268830/unemployment-rate-in-eu-countries/ 


Will a small SME recruit from IESE for Germany? Nope. Will a substantial player (consulting, finance, Tech, ...) recruit from IESE for Germany et al? Definitely! The current career fair features plenty of German employers (also probably fostered due to the IESE campus in Munich).



I did forget about IESE's presence in Germany via its Munich campus -- definitely sways me further and I have a certain feeling that the overall quality of IESE is unmatched in Europe barring LBS/Insead!

[quote][quote]The IESE MiM is excellent, but Europe has a profoundly national labour market and language barriers are notable. Study where you want to work. It's hard to imagine a firm that would hire in Madrid for the Nordic region. Denmark, Germany and the Netherlands look like good options: https://www.statista.com/statistics/268830/unemployment-rate-in-eu-countries/&nbsp; [/quote]<br><br>Will a small SME recruit from IESE for Germany? Nope. Will a substantial player (consulting, finance, Tech, ...) recruit from IESE for Germany et al? Definitely! The current career fair features plenty of German employers (also probably fostered due to the IESE campus in Munich). [/quote]<br><br><br>I did forget about IESE's presence in Germany via its Munich campus -- definitely sways me further and I have a certain feeling that the overall quality of IESE is unmatched in Europe barring LBS/Insead!<br>
quote
DACHMBA

Will a German consulting company hire someone from Spain who does not speak German? ESMT is more highly ranked than any other German or Spanish MiM. https://rankings.ft.com/rankings/5/masters-in-management-2021 


Being from the region + working in consulting I feel that I am entitled to an opinion here:
- ESMT has no significant presence in the German consulting scene. German consultants with an MBA come either from IESE/INSEAD/LBS/HEC/CJBS (or obv US) or have a Master from WHU, Mannheim, FSFM + the state unis.

ESMT has no significant presence (there are obviously the odd one here and there) but that for example McK is not actively recruiting despite being a founding member speaks volumes in my opinion.

With regards to the ranking: Well - yes but this is IMO only due to the fact  that i) they optimize heavily for that ii) Insead / IESE MiMs are due to age not ranked yet (as soon as they are eligible I would bet a healthy amount that from the first year on they both will surpass ESMT).

Trust me - from a practical experience it is unlikely that somebody without speaking German gets hired for a consulting role in Germany BUT if you want to keep the slim chance alive the outlook will be much better from IESE vs ESMT as you can at least rely on a broad, established  and helpful alumni network with significant presence in your target industry (consulting) vs a "so-so" school.

ESMT gets hyped up by internationals but in reality they have no significant footprint in Germany / DACH region.

[Edited by DACHMBA on Mar 15, 2022]

[quote]Will a German consulting company hire someone from Spain who does not speak German? ESMT is more highly ranked than any other German or Spanish MiM. https://rankings.ft.com/rankings/5/masters-in-management-2021&nbsp; [/quote]<br><br>Being from the region + working in consulting I feel that I am entitled to an opinion here:<br>- ESMT has no significant presence in the German consulting scene. German consultants with an MBA come either from IESE/INSEAD/LBS/HEC/CJBS (or obv US) or have a Master from WHU, Mannheim, FSFM + the state unis.<br><br>ESMT has no significant presence (there are obviously the odd one here and there) but that for example McK is not actively recruiting despite being a founding member speaks volumes in my opinion.<br><br>With regards to the ranking: Well - yes but this is IMO only due to the fact&nbsp; that i) they optimize heavily for that ii) Insead / IESE MiMs are due to age not ranked yet (as soon as they are eligible I would bet a healthy amount that from the first year on they both will surpass ESMT).<br><br>Trust me - from a practical experience it is unlikely that somebody without speaking German gets hired for a consulting role in Germany BUT if you want to keep the slim chance alive the outlook will be much better from IESE vs ESMT as you can at least rely on a broad, established&nbsp; and helpful alumni network with significant presence in your target industry (consulting) vs a "so-so" school.<br><br>ESMT gets hyped up by internationals but in reality they have no significant footprint in Germany / DACH region.<br>
quote
Ridhima05

Will a German consulting company hire someone from Spain who does not speak German? ESMT is more highly ranked than any other German or Spanish MiM. https://rankings.ft.com/rankings/5/masters-in-management-2021 


Being from the region + working in consulting I feel that I am entitled to an opinion here:
- ESMT has no significant presence in the German consulting scene. German consultants with an MBA come either from IESE/INSEAD/LBS/HEC/CJBS (or obv US) or have a Master from WHU, Mannheim, FSFM + the state unis.

ESMT has no significant presence (there are obviously the odd one here and there) but that for example McK is not actively recruiting despite being a founding member speaks volumes in my opinion.

With regards to the ranking: Well - yes but this is IMO only due to the fact  that i) they optimize heavily for that ii) Insead / IESE MiMs are due to age not ranked yet (as soon as they are eligible I would bet a healthy amount that from the first year on they both will surpass ESMT).

Trust me - from a practical experience it is unlikely that somebody without speaking German gets hired for a consulting role in Germany BUT if you want to keep the slim chance alive the outlook will be much better from IESE vs ESMT as you can at least rely on a broad, established  and helpful alumni network with significant presence in your target industry (consulting) vs a "so-so" school.

ESMT gets hyped up by internationals but in reality they have no significant footprint in Germany / DACH region.


So, compared to other European countries, Germany has a better job prospective for International students?

[quote][quote]Will a German consulting company hire someone from Spain who does not speak German? ESMT is more highly ranked than any other German or Spanish MiM. https://rankings.ft.com/rankings/5/masters-in-management-2021&nbsp; [/quote]<br><br>Being from the region + working in consulting I feel that I am entitled to an opinion here:<br>- ESMT has no significant presence in the German consulting scene. German consultants with an MBA come either from IESE/INSEAD/LBS/HEC/CJBS (or obv US) or have a Master from WHU, Mannheim, FSFM + the state unis.<br><br>ESMT has no significant presence (there are obviously the odd one here and there) but that for example McK is not actively recruiting despite being a founding member speaks volumes in my opinion.<br><br>With regards to the ranking: Well - yes but this is IMO only due to the fact&nbsp; that i) they optimize heavily for that ii) Insead / IESE MiMs are due to age not ranked yet (as soon as they are eligible I would bet a healthy amount that from the first year on they both will surpass ESMT).<br><br>Trust me - from a practical experience it is unlikely that somebody without speaking German gets hired for a consulting role in Germany BUT if you want to keep the slim chance alive the outlook will be much better from IESE vs ESMT as you can at least rely on a broad, established&nbsp; and helpful alumni network with significant presence in your target industry (consulting) vs a "so-so" school.<br><br>ESMT gets hyped up by internationals but in reality they have no significant footprint in Germany / DACH region.<br> [/quote]<br><br>So, compared to other European countries, Germany has a better job prospective for International students?
quote
Duncan

I'd say international students with professional-level language skills in the local language have more opportunities in Germany than almost anywhere else. Sadly, many international students can't do work in German and their openings are very modest. 

I'd say international students with professional-level language skills in the local language have more opportunities in Germany than almost anywhere else. Sadly, many international students can't do work in German and their openings are very modest.&nbsp;
quote
DACHMBA

Will a German consulting company hire someone from Spain who does not speak German? ESMT is more highly ranked than any other German or Spanish MiM. https://rankings.ft.com/rankings/5/masters-in-management-2021 


Being from the region + working in consulting I feel that I am entitled to an opinion here:
- ESMT has no significant presence in the German consulting scene. German consultants with an MBA come either from IESE/INSEAD/LBS/HEC/CJBS (or obv US) or have a Master from WHU, Mannheim, FSFM + the state unis.

ESMT has no significant presence (there are obviously the odd one here and there) but that for example McK is not actively recruiting despite being a founding member speaks volumes in my opinion.

With regards to the ranking: Well - yes but this is IMO only due to the fact  that i) they optimize heavily for that ii) Insead / IESE MiMs are due to age not ranked yet (as soon as they are eligible I would bet a healthy amount that from the first year on they both will surpass ESMT).

Trust me - from a practical experience it is unlikely that somebody without speaking German gets hired for a consulting role in Germany BUT if you want to keep the slim chance alive the outlook will be much better from IESE vs ESMT as you can at least rely on a broad, established  and helpful alumni network with significant presence in your target industry (consulting) vs a "so-so" school.

ESMT gets hyped up by internationals but in reality they have no significant footprint in Germany / DACH region.


So, compared to other European countries, Germany has a better job prospective for International students?


I am not saying that -  I am just saying that even in  Germany IESE is more recognized (in typical "tier 1" business circles) than ESMT. In fact ESMT is virtually unknown WITHIN Germany as they are outgunned by the leading MiM schools like WHU / Mannheim or even FSFM & HHL.
No one in their right mind in Germany would chose the MiM of ESMT vs WHU / Mannheim even though ESMT is supposedly ranked higher and nobody would prefer the MBA of ESMT vs the likes of IESE / INSEAD / HEC.

Short: MiM in Europe: HSG, WHU, WU, SSE, (all the CEMS schools), IESE, INSEAD, HEC are MUCH better options. MBA in Europe: Insead, LBS, IESE, HEC are MUCH  better options.

[quote][quote][quote]Will a German consulting company hire someone from Spain who does not speak German? ESMT is more highly ranked than any other German or Spanish MiM. https://rankings.ft.com/rankings/5/masters-in-management-2021&nbsp; [/quote]<br><br>Being from the region + working in consulting I feel that I am entitled to an opinion here:<br>- ESMT has no significant presence in the German consulting scene. German consultants with an MBA come either from IESE/INSEAD/LBS/HEC/CJBS (or obv US) or have a Master from WHU, Mannheim, FSFM + the state unis.<br><br>ESMT has no significant presence (there are obviously the odd one here and there) but that for example McK is not actively recruiting despite being a founding member speaks volumes in my opinion.<br><br>With regards to the ranking: Well - yes but this is IMO only due to the fact&nbsp; that i) they optimize heavily for that ii) Insead / IESE MiMs are due to age not ranked yet (as soon as they are eligible I would bet a healthy amount that from the first year on they both will surpass ESMT).<br><br>Trust me - from a practical experience it is unlikely that somebody without speaking German gets hired for a consulting role in Germany BUT if you want to keep the slim chance alive the outlook will be much better from IESE vs ESMT as you can at least rely on a broad, established&nbsp; and helpful alumni network with significant presence in your target industry (consulting) vs a "so-so" school.<br><br>ESMT gets hyped up by internationals but in reality they have no significant footprint in Germany / DACH region.<br> [/quote]<br><br>So, compared to other European countries, Germany has a better job prospective for International students? [/quote]<br><br>I am not saying that -&nbsp; I am just saying that even in&nbsp; Germany IESE is more recognized (in typical "tier 1" business circles) than ESMT. In fact ESMT is virtually unknown WITHIN Germany as they are outgunned by the leading MiM schools like WHU / Mannheim or even FSFM &amp; HHL.<br>No one in their right mind in Germany would chose the MiM of ESMT vs WHU / Mannheim even though ESMT is supposedly ranked higher and nobody would prefer the MBA of ESMT vs the likes of IESE / INSEAD / HEC.<br><br>Short: MiM in Europe: HSG, WHU, WU, SSE, (all the CEMS schools), IESE, INSEAD, HEC are MUCH better options. MBA in Europe: Insead, LBS, IESE, HEC are MUCH&nbsp; better options.<br><br>
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