Admitted to ESMT & Mannheim - What is the better choice?


ozeekay

Hi,

I got an admission in the FULL TIME MBA of ESMT Berlin & Mannheim Business School. I come from a background of financial services of over 8+ years and have mainly been in risk management. I am a German National with minimal command over the language since I have lived abroad for 95% of my life. Now, however, I want to pivot my career for the short-mid term into consulting/strategy and as an alternate stick to Banking and financial services, and in the long term venture out into the fintech space and explore disruptive entrepreneurial ventures. I do intend to focus a lot on the German Language and gain proficiency during the MBA course.

Any guidance as to which school to go for in terms of employability prospects, a better support network and most importantly what aligns better to my long term goal.

Thankyou in advance

Hi,

I got an admission in the FULL TIME MBA of ESMT Berlin & Mannheim Business School. I come from a background of financial services of over 8+ years and have mainly been in risk management. I am a German National with minimal command over the language since I have lived abroad for 95% of my life. Now, however, I want to pivot my career for the short-mid term into consulting/strategy and as an alternate stick to Banking and financial services, and in the long term venture out into the fintech space and explore disruptive entrepreneurial ventures. I do intend to focus a lot on the German Language and gain proficiency during the MBA course.

Any guidance as to which school to go for in terms of employability prospects, a better support network and most importantly what aligns better to my long term goal.

Thankyou in advance
quote
Duncan

Mannheim. Read the post on my profile page about using LinkedIn. 

Mannheim. Read the post on my profile page about using LinkedIn. 
quote
mba hipste...

For most students, a year of language learning during full-time studies in English is not enough to bridge the gap between minimal language skills and what you'd need to be proficient on the job market.

Maybe you'd have an edge given your previous exposure to the language and potential family ties, but just know that the German job market is notably difficult for those without perfect command of the language. 

For most students, a year of language learning during full-time studies in English is not enough to bridge the gap between minimal language skills and what you'd need to be proficient on the job market.<br><br>Maybe you'd have an edge given your previous exposure to the language and potential family ties, but just know that the German job market is notably difficult for those without perfect command of the language.&nbsp;
quote

If FinTech space is what you are looking for, I would go to ESMT between the 2. Also I would consider WHU if still possible as an alternative. ESMT is really international and offers German lessons throughout the course. Its alumni are found in any tech startup across Germany big or small serving key roles or in consulting firms and they are extremely well connected. At least this was my experience, starting a career at a FinTech payments company in Berlin right after graduation. For that, I got great support from the school and met many alumni on the field. Given  that the school is still new, it doesn't have enough alumni at a more executive level in traditional German financial institutions.
Mannheim on the other hand is a well reputed institution with great penetration in the German market but rather traditional. In the startup scene and FinTech space it's alumni presense is next to non existent. Mainly you will meet people from WHU ESMT and HHL in key tech roles.
Biggest no-go for me is the fact that Mannheim has limited to no diversity among students. I was expecting that from my mba as well as an international potential exposure.
Finally I found the courses at ESMT way more interesting as the are catching up with today's challenges and havd strong focus on technological and entrepreneurial subjects.
I wish you the best 

[Edited by Christy Rom on Oct 04, 2020]

If FinTech space is what you are looking for, I would go to ESMT between the 2. Also I would consider WHU if still possible as an alternative. ESMT is really international and offers German lessons throughout the course. Its alumni are found in any tech startup across Germany big or small serving key roles or in consulting firms and they are extremely well connected. At least this was my experience, starting a career at a FinTech payments company in Berlin right after graduation. For that, I got great support from the school and met many alumni on the field. Given&nbsp; that the school is still new, it doesn't have enough alumni at a more executive level in traditional German financial institutions.<br>Mannheim on the other hand is a well reputed institution with great penetration in the German market but rather traditional. In the startup scene and FinTech space it's alumni presense is next to non existent. Mainly you will meet people from WHU ESMT and HHL in key tech roles.<br>Biggest no-go for me is the fact that Mannheim has limited&nbsp;to no diversity among students. I was expecting that from my mba as well as an international potential exposure.<br>Finally I found the courses at ESMT way more interesting as the are catching up with today's challenges and havd strong focus on technological and entrepreneurial subjects.<br>I wish you the best&nbsp;<br><br>
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Duncan

Honestly, it sounds like you just want validation doesn't it?

FinTech is a technology domain, not a job. I think that a clearer goal will help you work out which of the features are benefits and which are not. If you want to work in Germany, then a really international cohort in a city where you will speak English is a liability and a school in a city and university where you will learn more German is an asset. If you want to work outside Germany, don't study there. 

Obviously, many of the organizations with the biggest fintech capacity are financial institutions and large tech players rather than start-ups. 

PS Does Mannheim really have a smaller fintech network than ESMT? A search on LinkedIn suggests the opposite. 

[Edited by Duncan on Oct 05, 2020]

Honestly, it sounds like you just want validation doesn't it?<br><br>FinTech is a technology domain, not a job. I think that a clearer goal will help you work out which of the features are benefits and which are not. If you want to work in Germany, then a really international cohort in a city where you will speak English is a liability and a school in a city and university where you will learn more German is an asset. If you want to work outside Germany, don't study there.&nbsp;<br><br>Obviously, many of the organizations with the biggest fintech capacity are financial institutions and large tech players rather than start-ups.&nbsp;<br><br>PS Does Mannheim really have a smaller fintech network than ESMT? A search on LinkedIn suggests the opposite.&nbsp;
quote

I am not searching for a validation as I am here doing that already. 
By FinTech i am referring to a cluster of companies that digitise banking or offer financial products such as N26 Revolut Klarna PayPal etc. Most important is that people are not coming from traditional banking background but rather from tech and there ESMT scores more points to my opinion.I don't claim that I am the expert here as I graduated ~1,5 half year ago. 
My take is that the only school considered among top in rankings from Germany is ESMT at least at the moment and in most of the them. Also keeps getting attention year after year if you follow up with its progress. That's the only one expats and colleagues recognize when I speak to my team in Sao Paulo at least.
I personally wanted that from a German mba. I agree with you that you don't do a mba in germany if you aim for international exposure exclusively. I would go to UK or France.Again judging from my impression speaking with German and expat colleagues the ESMT and WHU are considered more as being on the rise but again among my peers. All my classmates got a job offer 3 months later. I never said Mannheim is not well placed with the most business grads in Germany.
I sense some bias against the school also from your previous posts, but given that I have read many honest articles of yours that helped me I think it's just your honest opinion. 

[Edited by Christy Rom on Oct 05, 2020]

I am not searching for a validation as I am here doing that already.&nbsp;<div><br></div><div>By FinTech i am referring to a cluster of companies that digitise banking or offer financial products such as N26 Revolut Klarna PayPal etc. Most important is that people are not coming from traditional banking background but rather from tech and there ESMT scores more points to my opinion.</div>I don't claim that I am the expert here as I graduated ~1,5 half year ago.&nbsp;<br>My take is that the only school considered among top in rankings from Germany is ESMT at least at the moment and in most of the them. Also keeps getting attention year after year if you follow up with its progress. That's the only one expats and colleagues recognize when I speak to my team in Sao Paulo at least.<br>I personally wanted that from a German mba. I agree with you that you don't do a mba in germany if you aim for international exposure exclusively. I would go to UK or France.<div>Again judging from my impression speaking with German and expat colleagues the ESMT and WHU are considered more as being on the rise but again among my peers. All my classmates got a job offer 3 months later. I never said Mannheim is not well placed with the most business grads in Germany.<br></div>I sense some bias against the school also from your previous posts, but given that I have read many honest articles of yours that helped me I think it's just your honest opinion.&nbsp;<br><div><br></div>
quote
Duncan

My point about Mannheim wasn't that it has a lot of graduates, although that is true, but that it has a lot more graduates working in fintech than ESMT. 

If you look at the firms you mention, a few things are notable:
- 95% of the people there don't have MBAs
- Most of those with MBAs in those firms are in the US and come from way better schools like Duke, Hass, Ross and Wharton.
- They tend to have relevant experience at large online retailers [e.g. Amazon], traditional financial institutions [e.g AmEx] or tech giants [e.g. Oracle, Microsoft].
- Limiting the focus to the small pool of such people in Germany, HHL is the leading school. 

Scoping out to where MBAs are most concentrated in fintech in Germany, the major employers are naturally much larger firms like Amazon, SAP, Siemens and McKinsey where the major schools are WHU, Mannheim and Insead. 

My approach is really data-driven, and I don't think it helps to describe as bias the idea that schools' should be evaluated on the basis of the outcomes of their alumni. I have some friends and former professors who have taught at ESMT, and have a lot of respect for the school. However, it places better into mainstream e-commerce [especially Amazon, HelloFresh, HERE and Zalanado] than into the firms you mention. Indeed, as far as I can see ESMT has just one alumnus in those firms, an engineer at Klarna.

My point about Mannheim wasn't that it has a lot of graduates, although that is true, but that it has a lot more graduates working in fintech than ESMT.&nbsp;<br><br>If you look at the firms you mention, a few things are notable:<br>- 95% of the people there don't have MBAs<br>- Most of those with MBAs in those firms are in the US and come from way better schools like Duke, Hass, Ross and Wharton.<br>- They tend to have relevant experience at large online retailers [e.g. Amazon], traditional financial institutions [e.g AmEx] or tech giants [e.g. Oracle, Microsoft].<br>- Limiting the focus to the small pool of such people in Germany, HHL is the leading school.&nbsp;<br><br>Scoping out to where MBAs are most concentrated in fintech in Germany, the major employers are naturally much larger firms like Amazon, SAP, Siemens and McKinsey where the major schools are WHU, Mannheim and Insead.&nbsp;<br><br>My approach is really data-driven, and I don't think it helps to describe as bias the idea that schools' should be evaluated on the basis of the outcomes of their alumni. I have some friends and former professors who have taught at ESMT, and have a lot of respect for the school. However, it places better into mainstream e-commerce [especially Amazon, HelloFresh, HERE and Zalanado] than into the firms you mention. Indeed, as far as I can see ESMT has just one alumnus in those firms, an engineer at Klarna.
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StuartHE

My take is that the only school considered among top in rankings from Germany is ESMT at least at the moment and in most of the them.


You seem to be ranking the schools alphabetically. In the FT rankings, ESMT is the third full-time in Germany after WHU and Mannheim; the third EMBA after ESCP and WHU, the 5th MiM provider after ESCP, Mannheim, WHU and HHL. The QS MBA ranking places it fourth, after Mannheim, WHU and Frankfurt. 

[quote]My take is that the only school considered among top in rankings from Germany is ESMT at least at the moment and in most of the them.[/quote]
<div>
</div><div>You seem to be ranking the schools alphabetically. In the FT rankings, ESMT is the third full-time in Germany after WHU and Mannheim; the third EMBA after ESCP and WHU, the 5th MiM provider after ESCP, Mannheim, WHU and HHL. The QS MBA ranking places it fourth, after Mannheim, WHU and Frankfurt.&nbsp;</div>
quote

My take is that the only school considered among top in rankings from Germany is ESMT at least at the moment and in most of the them.






You seem to not being able to tell apart business school rankings and program rankings.

https://www.bloomberg.com/business-schools/regions/europe

http://rankings.ft.com/businessschoolrankings/european-business-school-rankings-2019

https://www.economist.com/whichmba/mba-rankings/europe?fsrc=GMATblog (economist ranks program)

[Edited by Christy Rom on Oct 05, 2020]

[quote][quote]My take is that the only school considered among top in rankings from Germany is ESMT at least at the moment and in most of the them.[/quote]<br>
<div><br>
</div><div><br></div><br>You seem to not being able to tell apart business school rankings and program rankings.<br><br>https://www.bloomberg.com/business-schools/regions/europe<br><br>http://rankings.ft.com/businessschoolrankings/european-business-school-rankings-2019<br><br>https://www.economist.com/whichmba/mba-rankings/europe?fsrc=GMATblog (economist ranks program)<br><br>
quote

My take is that the only school considered among top in rankings from Germany is ESMT at least at the moment and in most of the them.


You seem to be ranking the schools alphabetically. In the FT rankings, ESMT is the third full-time in Germany after WHU and Mannheim; the third EMBA after ESCP and WHU, the 5th MiM provider after ESCP, Mannheim, WHU and HHL. The QS MBA ranking places it fourth, after Mannheim, WHU and Frankfurt. 


http://rankings.ft.com/businessschoolrankings/european-business-school-rankings-2019

https://www.bloomberg.com/business-schools/regions/europe

[quote][quote]My take is that the only school considered among top in rankings from Germany is ESMT at least at the moment and in most of the them.[/quote]
<div>
</div><div>You seem to be ranking the schools alphabetically. In the FT rankings, ESMT is the third full-time in Germany after WHU and Mannheim; the third EMBA after ESCP and WHU, the 5th MiM provider after ESCP, Mannheim, WHU and HHL. The QS MBA ranking places it fourth, after Mannheim, WHU and Frankfurt.&nbsp;</div> [/quote]<br><br>http://rankings.ft.com/businessschoolrankings/european-business-school-rankings-2019<br><br>https://www.bloomberg.com/business-schools/regions/europe<br><br>
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StuartHE

Yup, ESMT does well for executive education because it took over Schoss Gracht, but aren't you looking at MBAs?

And the Bloomberg ranking is a mess: Cranfield better than Oxford? ESIC better than Warwick? EADA better than Manchester? EAE better than Rotterdam? 

PS But Bloomberg too shows Mannheim above ESMT. 

[Edited by StuartHE on Oct 05, 2020]

Yup, ESMT does well for executive education because it took over Schoss Gracht, but aren't you looking at MBAs?<br><br>And the Bloomberg ranking is a mess: Cranfield better than Oxford? ESIC better than Warwick? EADA better than Manchester? EAE better than Rotterdam?&nbsp;<br><br>PS But Bloomberg too shows Mannheim above ESMT.&nbsp;
quote
mba hipste...

My take is that the only school considered among top in rankings from Germany is ESMT at least at the moment and in most of the them.

WHU and Mannheim are ranked higher in the FT Global Ranking, which to me is the one that's the most reliable. 

[quote]My take is that the only school considered among top in rankings from Germany is ESMT at least at the moment and in most of the them.[/quote]<br>WHU and Mannheim are ranked higher in the FT Global Ranking, which to me is the one that's the most reliable.&nbsp;
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