640/650/640 - Indian Male Lawyer - What are my options?

2 4

Posted Dec 26, 2020 00:56

Hi all,

My profile is as follows:

- 58 months months work ex (just short of 5 years)

- 1.5 years general corporate law, 3 years specialist technology work (included a secondment with Facebook)

- Quit my job in January 2020 to prepare for GMAT full time and get into a full time MBA program. Left job at end of March after serving notice. Initial plan was to give GMAT in July after three months of focused prep. Due to various covid related circumstances I was quite distracted in my prep for the first attempt. Gave three attempts in August, November and December.

-Scored 640 (34v/44q), 650 (40v/40q) and 640 (35v/43q) in all the three attempts. The only saving grace was that my IR score went from 4 to 6 and finally 8. AWA was stable for the first two attempts at 6 and for some strange reason crashed to 4 in my latest attempt (I have no idea why)

- Currently unemployed and torn between taking effort to find another job in my profession (which I do not like) or try to apply to a few lower tier law schools for September.

- Applied to ESMT, Rotterdam, Ivey, SMU and WHU for the full time MBA program. Got rejected by all of them. No reasons given. SMU specifically said they liked my profile and took two rounds of interviews. They also specifically asked if they could push my application file to 2022 and that if I had a slightly higher GMAT I would have made it.

I want to understand what my options are. I am looking at Canada/Europe/UK/Australia and New Zealand.

My goal is to eventually start my own business, in food processing or waste recycling. Starting my business has always been a dream of mine, but I could not see myself become a law firm partner as I did not feel my job was contributing much to society. Therefore, I am looking for a supply chain or sustainability specialization.

I have seen a few posts here about Hult as taking in 'just about anyone'. Is Hult a money making machine for it's management or do they actually have a competent faculty and support system. Honestly, I am not looking for a brand name and a high rank. I know I can manage if I am given the right tools and facilities to achieve my goals.

I just don't want to do an MBA overseas (and take on significant debt() if the B School doesn't contribute anything apart from an MBA certificate.

Thank you in advance and Happy Holidays to all!.

[Edited by arvindr92 on Dec 26, 2020]

Hi all, 
My profile is as follows: 
- 58 months months work ex (just short of 5 years) 
- 1.5 years general corporate law, 3 years specialist technology work (included a secondment with Facebook) 
- Quit my job in January 2020 to prepare for GMAT full time and get into a full time MBA program. Left job at end of March after serving notice. Initial plan was to give GMAT in July after three months of focused prep. Due to various covid related circumstances I was quite distracted in my prep for the first attempt. Gave three attempts in August, November and December. 
-Scored 640 (34v/44q), 650 (40v/40q) and 640 (35v/43q) in all the three attempts. The only saving grace was that my IR score went from 4 to 6 and finally 8. AWA was stable for the first two attempts at 6 and for some strange reason crashed to 4 in my latest attempt (I have no idea why) 
- Currently unemployed and torn between taking effort to find another job in my profession (which I do not like) or try to apply to a few lower tier law schools for September. 
- Applied to ESMT, Rotterdam, Ivey, SMU and WHU for the full time MBA program. Got rejected by all of them. No reasons given. SMU specifically said they liked my profile and took two rounds of interviews. They also specifically asked if they could push my application file to 2022 and that if I had a slightly higher GMAT I would have made it. 
I want to understand what my options are. I am looking at Canada/Europe/UK/Australia and New Zealand. 
My goal is to eventually start my own business, in food processing or waste recycling. Starting my business has always been a dream of mine, but I could not see myself become a law firm partner as I did not feel my job was contributing much to society. Therefore, I am looking for a supply chain or sustainability specialization. 
I have seen a few posts here about Hult as taking in 'just about anyone'. Is Hult a money making machine for it's management or do they actually have a competent faculty and support system. Honestly, I am not looking for a brand name and a high rank. I know I can manage if I am given the right tools and facilities to achieve my goals. 
I just don't want to do an MBA overseas (and take on significant debt() if the B School doesn't contribute anything apart from an MBA certificate. Thank you in advance and Happy Holidays to all!.

quote

Duncan

13.776 15.332

Posted Dec 26, 2020 20:53

Please do not invest in graduate school until you have clarified your goals.

quote

arvindr92

2 4

Posted Dec 26, 2020 21:00

Please do not invest in graduate school until you have clarified your goals.

Hey Duncan. I don't understand your comment. To clarify, I want to get an MBA for the reasons I have outlined in my post. Essentially, I want to transition out of my career as a lawyer and get on a path to working in supply chains, or operations for a manufacturing business. The eventual goal being to start a business of my own.

[quote]Please do not invest in graduate school until you have clarified your goals.  [/quote] Hey Duncan. I don't understand your comment. To clarify, I want to get an MBA for the reasons I have outlined in my post. Essentially, I want to transition out of my career as a lawyer and get on a path to working in supply chains, or operations for a manufacturing business. The eventual goal being to start a business of my own.

quote

Duncan

13.776 15.332

Posted Dec 27, 2020 09:29

Goals are not what you don't want. They are the most sustainable and valuable of the options you are faced with. Perhaps these things are evident to you, but your post does not reflect your mission and values, or a very clear idea of the role, function and most probable country for your next role. Nor do I see a clear outline of what you need from this role in order to develop your own business.

So, for example, why not take a food sustainability or food logistics MSc at Cranfield or Wageningen? Or why not one of the MIT Scale masters or micromaster? Or surely if you are transitioning from one industry to another, you might move into some legal function in that industry?

Goals are not what you don't want. They are the most sustainable and valuable of the options you are faced with. Perhaps these things are evident to you, but your post does not reflect your mission and values, or a very clear idea of the role, function and most probable country for your next role. Nor do I see a clear outline of what you need from this role in order to develop your own business.  So, for example, why not take a food sustainability or food logistics MSc at Cranfield or Wageningen? Or why not one of the MIT Scale masters or micromaster? Or surely if you are transitioning from one industry to another, you might move into some legal function in that industry?

quote

Inactive User

266 92

Posted Dec 27, 2020 17:15

- Quit my job in January 2020 to prepare for GMAT full time and get into a full time MBA program. Left job at end of March after serving notice. Initial plan was to give GMAT in July after three months of focused prep. Due to various covid related circumstances I was quite distracted in my prep for the first attempt. Gave three attempts in August, November and December.

- Currently unemployed and torn between taking effort to find another job in my profession (which I do not like) or try to apply to a few lower tier law schools for September.

- Applied to ESMT, Rotterdam, Ivey, SMU and WHU for the full time MBA program. Got rejected by all of them. No reasons given. SMU specifically said they liked my profile and took two rounds of interviews. They also specifically asked if they could push my application file to 2022 and that if I had a slightly higher GMAT I would have made it.

I want to understand what my options are. I am looking at Canada/Europe/UK/Australia and New Zealand.

Correct me if I am wrong, but as I understand it - you quit your job just to take the GMAT and are now currently unemployed? Wow. Never heard anyone do something like that, particularly in today's situation where jobs are hard to come by.

Perhaps what you did is common in India (I don't know, I never lived there) but in the western world, that decision, combined with a lack of focus, will be viewed very negatively. Agree wth Duncan, be more razor-focused on your goals (or at least appear that way in your MBA apps). Your post sounds like you don't really know what to do? - e.g. be a lawyer, stay in India, move to another country, etc.

[quote] 
- Quit my job in January 2020 to prepare for GMAT full time and get into a full time MBA program. Left job at end of March after serving notice. Initial plan was to give GMAT in July after three months of focused prep. Due to various covid related circumstances I was quite distracted in my prep for the first attempt. Gave three attempts in August, November and December. 
- Currently unemployed and torn between taking effort to find another job in my profession (which I do not like) or try to apply to a few lower tier law schools for September. 
- Applied to ESMT, Rotterdam, Ivey, SMU and WHU for the full time MBA program. Got rejected by all of them. No reasons given. SMU specifically said they liked my profile and took two rounds of interviews. They also specifically asked if they could push my application file to 2022 and that if I had a slightly higher GMAT I would have made it. 
I want to understand what my options are. I am looking at Canada/Europe/UK/Australia and New Zealand.   [/quote] Correct me if I am wrong, but as I understand it - you quit your job just to take the GMAT and are now currently unemployed?  Wow.  Never heard anyone do something like that, particularly in today's situation where jobs are hard to come by. Perhaps what you did is common in India (I don't know, I never lived there) but in the western world, that decision, combined with a lack of focus, will be viewed very negatively.  Agree wth Duncan, be more razor-focused on your goals (or at least appear that way in your MBA apps).  Your post sounds like you don't really know what to do? - e.g. be a lawyer, stay in India, move to another country, etc.

quote

arvindr92

2 4

Posted Dec 28, 2020 11:23

- Quit my job in January 2020 to prepare for GMAT full time and get into a full time MBA program. Left job at end of March after serving notice. Initial plan was to give GMAT in July after three months of focused prep. Due to various covid related circumstances I was quite distracted in my prep for the first attempt. Gave three attempts in August, November and December.

- Currently unemployed and torn between taking effort to find another job in my profession (which I do not like) or try to apply to a few lower tier law schools for September.

- Applied to ESMT, Rotterdam, Ivey, SMU and WHU for the full time MBA program. Got rejected by all of them. No reasons given. SMU specifically said they liked my profile and took two rounds of interviews. They also specifically asked if they could push my application file to 2022 and that if I had a slightly higher GMAT I would have made it.

I want to understand what my options are. I am looking at Canada/Europe/UK/Australia and New Zealand.

Correct me if I am wrong, but as I understand it - you quit your job just to take the GMAT and are now currently unemployed? Wow. Never heard anyone do something like that, particularly in today's situation where jobs are hard to come by.

Perhaps what you did is common in India (I don't know, I never lived there) but in the western world, that decision, combined with a lack of focus, will be viewed very negatively. Agree wth Duncan, be more razor-focused on your goals (or at least appear that way in your MBA apps). Your post sounds like you don't really know what to do? - e.g. be a lawyer, stay in India, move to another country, etc.

Working in corporate law in India means putting 12-15 hour days with even weekends sometimes being spent to work - or just being spent recovering your lost sleep. It's very difficult to even hold down a hobby while doing such as job, let alone study for the GMAT. I quit my job for a variety of reasons, other than what I mentioned, maybe the brevity of my post made it appear I had made this decision on a whim.

(i) I needed a break after working for three years and taking only one vacation in those three years (ii) I realized that I could not put myself in the shoes of my law firm partner as I didn't particularly enjoy my job since I realized my job wasn't contributing to society. I was only padding the profits of big tech; (iii) I wanted to shift my career away from law to something that is more mobile (does not geographically restrict me on where I can work) and where I can work for an organization whose sole goal is not to bill the maximum number of hours; and (iv) If I was to take the GMAT I would need to spend hours of dedicated time to relearn my math skills that I had no use of during my five years of law school and five years of legal work. Math is something that is very challenging for me, hence I wanted to give it special attention.

I didn't take the decision of pursuing an MBA lightly. I made the decision because (i) It allows me to be a generalist, thus keeping my options open; (ii) It gives me geographical mobility; (iii) It can be done in a relatively short period of 1 or 2 years ; (iv) It allows me to build and expand networks which would align with my eventual goal of starting a business of my own. When I say 'eventual', I mean at least 5-10 years after working in an established food supply/logistics/manufacturing concern. My immediate aim after the MBA will be to secure a job where I can build my nascent skill set. This could be as a consultant in a Tier 2 consulting firm (which hire from the B schools that I am targeting) or as a trainee operations manager at a warehouse or at a factory. I don't really care about the job's location as long as it pays well enough for me to pay off my student loans.

To summarize - I want to move out of my legal career. That is the main reason I am targeting an MBA.

[Edited by arvindr92 on Dec 28, 2020]

[quote][quote] 
- Quit my job in January 2020 to prepare for GMAT full time and get into a full time MBA program. Left job at end of March after serving notice. Initial plan was to give GMAT in July after three months of focused prep. Due to various covid related circumstances I was quite distracted in my prep for the first attempt. Gave three attempts in August, November and December. 
- Currently unemployed and torn between taking effort to find another job in my profession (which I do not like) or try to apply to a few lower tier law schools for September. 
- Applied to ESMT, Rotterdam, Ivey, SMU and WHU for the full time MBA program. Got rejected by all of them. No reasons given. SMU specifically said they liked my profile and took two rounds of interviews. They also specifically asked if they could push my application file to 2022 and that if I had a slightly higher GMAT I would have made it. 
I want to understand what my options are. I am looking at Canada/Europe/UK/Australia and New Zealand.   [/quote] Correct me if I am wrong, but as I understand it - you quit your job just to take the GMAT and are now currently unemployed?  Wow.  Never heard anyone do something like that, particularly in today's situation where jobs are hard to come by. Perhaps what you did is common in India (I don't know, I never lived there) but in the western world, that decision, combined with a lack of focus, will be viewed very negatively.  Agree wth Duncan, be more razor-focused on your goals (or at least appear that way in your MBA apps).  Your post sounds like you don't really know what to do? - e.g. be a lawyer, stay in India, move to another country, etc.   [/quote] Working in corporate law in India means putting 12-15 hour days with even weekends sometimes being spent to work - or just being spent recovering your lost sleep. It's very difficult to even hold down a hobby while doing such as job, let alone study for the GMAT. I quit my job for a variety of reasons, other than what I mentioned, maybe the brevity of my post made it appear I had made this decision on a whim.  (i) I needed a break after working for three years and taking only one vacation in those three years (ii) I realized that I could not put myself in the shoes of my law firm partner as I didn't particularly enjoy my job since I realized my job wasn't contributing to society. I was only padding the profits of big tech; (iii) I wanted to shift my career away from law to something that is more mobile (does not geographically restrict me on where I can work) and where I can work for an organization whose sole goal is not to bill the maximum number of hours; and (iv) If I was to take the GMAT I would need to spend hours of dedicated time to relearn my math skills that I had no use of during my five years of law school and five years of legal work. Math is something that is very challenging for me, hence I wanted to give it special attention.  I didn't take the decision of pursuing an MBA lightly. I made the decision because (i) It allows me to be a generalist, thus keeping my options open; (ii) It gives me geographical mobility; (iii) It can be done in a relatively short period of 1 or 2 years ; (iv) It allows me to build and expand networks which would align with my eventual goal of starting a business of my own. When I say 'eventual', I mean at least 5-10 years after working in an established food supply/logistics/manufacturing concern. My immediate aim after the MBA will be to secure a job where I can build my nascent skill set. This could be as a consultant in a Tier 2 consulting firm (which hire from the B schools that I am targeting) or as a trainee operations manager at a warehouse or at a factory. I don't really care about the job's location as long as it pays well enough for me to pay off my student loans.  To summarize - I want to move out of my legal career. That is the main reason I am targeting an MBA.

quote

Inactive User

266 92

Posted Dec 28, 2020 15:45

Have you considered getting your MBA locally (in India)? Your goals are much more achievable if you get your MBA there. From the sound of your post, you are not in it for the money but for the career satisfaction.

When I was doing my MBA in the US, our career services said that an MBA allows one to change one of 3 things: location, industry, position. Changing 1 is easy, changing 2 things is difficult and changing all 3 is extremely difficult. If you want to stay outside India after a foreign MBA, your options will likely be limited to your current industry/position (which you dislike, as I understand). So your best option is to get your MBA in India. Just my 2c.

I do feel for your situation. I would still search for a job in the meantime, as it boosts your CV when it's time to apply. Otherwise, you would have to explain the gap to adcoms.

Best of luck.

Have you considered getting your MBA locally (in India)?  Your goals are much more achievable if you get your MBA there.  From the sound of your post, you are not in it for the money but for the career satisfaction.   When I was doing my MBA in the US, our career services said that an MBA allows one to change one of 3 things: location, industry, position.  Changing 1 is easy, changing 2 things is difficult and changing all 3 is extremely difficult.  If you want to stay outside India after a foreign MBA, your options will likely be limited to your current industry/position (which you dislike, as I understand).  So your best option is to get your MBA in India.   Just my 2c. I do feel for your situation.  I would still search for a job in the meantime, as it boosts your CV when it's time to apply.  Otherwise, you would have to explain the gap to adcoms.   Best of luck.

quote

ria basu

8 6

Posted May 15, 2021 15:59

Hi all,

My profile is as follows:

- 58 months months work ex (just short of 5 years)

- 1.5 years general corporate law, 3 years specialist technology work (included a secondment with Facebook)

- Quit my job in January 2020 to prepare for GMAT full time and get into a full time MBA program. Left job at end of March after serving notice. Initial plan was to give GMAT in July after three months of focused prep. Due to various covid related circumstances I was quite distracted in my prep for the first attempt. Gave three attempts in August, November and December.

-Scored 640 (34v/44q), 650 (40v/40q) and 640 (35v/43q) in all the three attempts. The only saving grace was that my IR score went from 4 to 6 and finally 8. AWA was stable for the first two attempts at 6 and for some strange reason crashed to 4 in my latest attempt (I have no idea why)

- Currently unemployed and torn between taking effort to find another job in my profession (which I do not like) or try to apply to a few lower tier law schools for September.

- Applied to ESMT, Rotterdam, Ivey, SMU and WHU for the full time MBA program. Got rejected by all of them. No reasons given. SMU specifically said they liked my profile and took two rounds of interviews. They also specifically asked if they could push my application file to 2022 and that if I had a slightly higher GMAT I would have made it.

I want to understand what my options are. I am looking at Canada/Europe/UK/Australia and New Zealand.

My goal is to eventually start my own business, in food processing or waste recycling. Starting my business has always been a dream of mine, but I could not see myself become a law firm partner as I did not feel my job was contributing much to society. Therefore, I am looking for a supply chain or sustainability specialization.

I have seen a few posts here about Hult as taking in 'just about anyone'. Is Hult a money making machine for it's management or do they actually have a competent faculty and support system. Honestly, I am not looking for a brand name and a high rank. I know I can manage if I am given the right tools and facilities to achieve my goals.

I just don't want to do an MBA overseas (and take on significant debt() if the B School doesn't contribute anything apart from an MBA certificate.

Thank you in advance and Happy Holidays to all!.

Hi, I am literally in the same predicament as you. And as is glaringly apparent from a lot of these comments to your post, none of these people actually understood or even tried to understand the problem. I found most responses to be pretty condescending really. Have you decided on a MBA? I would really like to know what decision you've made.

[quote]Hi all, 
My profile is as follows: 
- 58 months months work ex (just short of 5 years) 
- 1.5 years general corporate law, 3 years specialist technology work (included a secondment with Facebook) 
- Quit my job in January 2020 to prepare for GMAT full time and get into a full time MBA program. Left job at end of March after serving notice. Initial plan was to give GMAT in July after three months of focused prep. Due to various covid related circumstances I was quite distracted in my prep for the first attempt. Gave three attempts in August, November and December. 
-Scored 640 (34v/44q), 650 (40v/40q) and 640 (35v/43q) in all the three attempts. The only saving grace was that my IR score went from 4 to 6 and finally 8. AWA was stable for the first two attempts at 6 and for some strange reason crashed to 4 in my latest attempt (I have no idea why) 
- Currently unemployed and torn between taking effort to find another job in my profession (which I do not like) or try to apply to a few lower tier law schools for September. 
- Applied to ESMT, Rotterdam, Ivey, SMU and WHU for the full time MBA program. Got rejected by all of them. No reasons given. SMU specifically said they liked my profile and took two rounds of interviews. They also specifically asked if they could push my application file to 2022 and that if I had a slightly higher GMAT I would have made it. 
I want to understand what my options are. I am looking at Canada/Europe/UK/Australia and New Zealand. 
My goal is to eventually start my own business, in food processing or waste recycling. Starting my business has always been a dream of mine, but I could not see myself become a law firm partner as I did not feel my job was contributing much to society. Therefore, I am looking for a supply chain or sustainability specialization. 
I have seen a few posts here about Hult as taking in 'just about anyone'. Is Hult a money making machine for it's management or do they actually have a competent faculty and support system. Honestly, I am not looking for a brand name and a high rank. I know I can manage if I am given the right tools and facilities to achieve my goals. 
I just don't want to do an MBA overseas (and take on significant debt() if the B School doesn't contribute anything apart from an MBA certificate. Thank you in advance and Happy Holidays to all!.  [/quote] Hi, I am literally in the same predicament as you. And as is glaringly apparent from a lot of these comments to your post, none of these people actually understood or even tried to understand the problem. I found most responses to be pretty condescending really. Have you decided on a MBA? I would really like to know what decision you've made.

quote

StuartHE

1.092 654

Posted May 15, 2021 20:58

The OPs problem is that they don't understand their options. They can't clarify their options because they have not established clear goals. If you find that condescending, imagine how condescending it would be to not point that out and let them make a huge investment that would not serve their long-term interests.

quote

laurie

1.085 549

Posted May 21, 2021 17:22

I agree, this is not condescending at all. This was the OP's goal:

To summarize - I want to move out of my legal career. That is the main reason I am targeting an MBA.

If that's what you are going to tell an MBA admission committee, you will certainly have a bad time. They'll want to know (1) ok, you want to get out of law, but where do you want to go in terms of industry? and hopefully (2) which specific companies are you interested in working for?

Without that kind of thinking about your goals - or at least some concrete ideas - schools won't really know if you are suitable for the companies who recruit from their schools. And since getting students good jobs is a goal of most business schools, that's extremely problematic.

I agree, this is not condescending at all. This was the OP's goal: [quote]To summarize - I want to move out of my legal career. That is the main reason I am targeting an MBA.[/quote] If that's what you are going to tell an MBA admission committee, you will certainly have a bad time. They'll want to know (1) ok, you want to get out of law, but where do you want to go in terms of industry? and hopefully (2) which specific companies are you interested in working for? Without that kind of thinking about your goals - or at least some concrete ideas - schools won't really know if you are suitable for the companies who recruit from their schools. And since getting students good jobs is a goal of most business schools, that's extremely problematic.

quote

fiesta93

1 1

Posted Jun 08, 2023 22:27

I think people in this thread might not understand the situation in India. Students do not get counselling in schools on what professions they want to follow. Most of the students coming from middle-class backgrounds just go after what seems appealing in terms of job prospects without realising their true strengths and this now starts at 14 years of age. The competition in India at any level for getting a good education is cutthroat. So people don't focus on what they are great at but on what would be an available option.

That is a reason why people around 28-29 years of age realise that they can't do that job for the rest of their lives. But at that point, most of them are not aware of how to transition or what role they would be great at because they haven't experienced it. So to list out goals clearly sounds very idealistic in such situations but you give people even 1 year to figure out and they still would be confused. MBA at least serves as an area to gain skills in operations, strategy, technology/innovation/AI, general management.

And at the end every top 10 school in any EU country, top 30 in USA and top 10 in Asia has biggest Indian cohort for a very simple reason that half of them want to get out of what they are doing right now in their profession.

I think people in this thread might not understand the situation in India. Students do not get counselling in schools on what professions they want to follow. Most of the students coming from middle-class backgrounds just go after what seems appealing in terms of job prospects without realising their true strengths and this now starts at 14 years of age. The competition in India at any level for getting a good education is cutthroat. So people don't focus on what they are great at but on what would be an available option. That is a reason why people around 28-29 years of age realise that they can't do that job for the rest of their lives. But at that point, most of them are not aware of how to transition or what role they would be great at because they haven't experienced it. So to list out goals clearly sounds very idealistic in such situations but you give people even 1 year to figure out and they still would be confused. MBA at least serves as an area to gain skills in operations, strategy, technology/innovation/AI, general management.  And at the end every top 10 school in any EU country, top 30 in USA and top 10 in Asia has biggest Indian cohort for a very simple reason that half of them want to get out of what they are doing right now in their profession.

quote

aslamo

703 216

Posted Jun 09, 2023 09:32

If someone spent a year to work out their goals and still couldn't do so, they should look at getting paid for professional career coaching or counselling first.

Otherwise they risk making a huge money and time investment in an MBA that still won't meet their goals, whatever they may be once they started the programme.

[Edited by aslamo on Jun 09, 2023]

If someone spent a year to work out their goals and still couldn't do so, they should look at getting paid for professional career coaching or counselling first.  Otherwise they risk making a huge money and time investment in an MBA that still won't meet their goals, whatever they may be once they started the programme.

quote