640/650/640 - Indian Male Lawyer - What are my options?


arvindr92

Hi all,


My profile is as follows:


- 58 months months work ex (just short of 5 years)


- 1.5 years general corporate law, 3 years specialist technology work (included a secondment with Facebook)


- Quit my job in January 2020 to prepare for GMAT full time and get into a full time MBA program. Left job at end of March after serving notice. Initial plan was to give GMAT in July after three months of focused prep. Due to various covid related circumstances I was quite distracted in my prep for the first attempt. Gave three attempts in August, November and December.


-Scored 640 (34v/44q), 650 (40v/40q) and 640 (35v/43q) in all the three attempts. The only saving grace was that my IR score went from 4 to 6 and finally 8. AWA was stable for the first two attempts at 6 and for some strange reason crashed to 4 in my latest attempt (I have no idea why)


- Currently unemployed and torn between taking effort to find another job in my profession (which I do not like) or try to apply to a few lower tier law schools for September.


- Applied to ESMT, Rotterdam, Ivey, SMU and WHU for the full time MBA program. Got rejected by all of them. No reasons given. SMU specifically said they liked my profile and took two rounds of interviews. They also specifically asked if they could push my application file to 2022 and that if I had a slightly higher GMAT I would have made it.


I want to understand what my options are. I am looking at Canada/Europe/UK/Australia and New Zealand.


My goal is to eventually start my own business, in food processing or waste recycling. Starting my business has always been a dream of mine, but I could not see myself become a law firm partner as I did not feel my job was contributing much to society. Therefore, I am looking for a supply chain or sustainability specialization.


I have seen a few posts here about Hult as taking in 'just about anyone'. Is Hult a money making machine for it's management or do they actually have a competent faculty and support system. Honestly, I am not looking for a brand name and a high rank. I know I can manage if I am given the right tools and facilities to achieve my goals.


I just don't want to do an MBA overseas (and take on significant debt() if the B School doesn't contribute anything apart from an MBA certificate.

Thank you in advance and Happy Holidays to all!. 

[Edited by arvindr92 on Dec 26, 2020]

Hi all,<br><br>
My profile is as follows:<br><br>
- 58 months months work ex (just short of 5 years)<br><br>
- 1.5 years general corporate law, 3 years specialist technology work (included a secondment with Facebook)<br><br>
- Quit my job in January 2020 to prepare for GMAT full time and get into a full time MBA program. Left job at end of March after serving notice. Initial plan was to give GMAT in July after three months of focused prep. Due to various covid related circumstances I was quite distracted in my prep for the first attempt. Gave three attempts in August, November and December. <br><br>
-Scored 640 (34v/44q), 650 (40v/40q) and 640 (35v/43q) in all the three attempts. The only saving grace was that my IR score went from 4 to 6 and finally 8. AWA was stable for the first two attempts at 6 and for some strange reason crashed to 4 in my latest attempt (I have no idea why)<br><br>
- Currently unemployed and torn between taking effort to find another job in my profession (which I do not like) or try to apply to a few lower tier law schools for September.<br><br>
- Applied to ESMT, Rotterdam, Ivey, SMU and WHU for the full time MBA program. Got rejected by all of them. No reasons given. SMU specifically said they liked my profile and took two rounds of interviews. They also specifically asked if they could push my application file to 2022 and that if I had a slightly higher GMAT I would have made it.<br><br>
I want to understand what my options are. I am looking at Canada/Europe/UK/Australia and New Zealand. <br><br>
My goal is to eventually start my own business, in food processing or waste recycling. Starting my business has always been a dream of mine, but I could not see myself become a law firm partner as I did not feel my job was contributing much to society. Therefore, I am looking for a supply chain or sustainability specialization.<br><br>
I have seen a few posts here about Hult as taking in 'just about anyone'. Is Hult a money making machine for it's management or do they actually have a competent faculty and support system. Honestly, I am not looking for a brand name and a high rank. I know I can manage if I am given the right tools and facilities to achieve my goals. <br><br>
I just don't want to do an MBA overseas (and take on significant debt() if the B School doesn't contribute anything apart from an MBA certificate.<br><br>Thank you in advance and Happy Holidays to all!.&nbsp;
quote
Duncan

Please do not invest in graduate school until you have clarified your goals. 

Please do not invest in graduate school until you have clarified your goals.&nbsp;
quote
arvindr92

Please do not invest in graduate school until you have clarified your goals. 


Hey Duncan. I don't understand your comment. To clarify, I want to get an MBA for the reasons I have outlined in my post. Essentially, I want to transition out of my career as a lawyer and get on a path to working in supply chains, or operations for a manufacturing business. The eventual goal being to start a business of my own. 

[quote]Please do not invest in graduate school until you have clarified your goals.&nbsp; [/quote]<br><br>Hey Duncan. I don't understand your comment. To clarify, I want to get an MBA for the reasons I have outlined in my post. Essentially, I want to transition out of my career as a lawyer and get on a path to working in supply chains, or operations for a manufacturing business. The eventual goal being to start a business of my own.&nbsp;<br>
quote
Duncan

Goals are not what you don't want. They are the most sustainable and valuable of the options you are faced with. Perhaps these things are evident to you, but your post does not reflect your mission and values, or a very clear idea of the role, function and most probable country for your next role. Nor do I see a clear outline of what you need from this role in order to develop your own business. 

So, for example, why not take a food sustainability or food logistics MSc at Cranfield or Wageningen? Or why not one of the MIT Scale masters or micromaster? Or surely if you are transitioning from one industry to another, you might move into some legal function in that industry?

Goals are not what you don't want. They are the most sustainable and valuable of the options you are faced with. Perhaps these things are evident to you, but your post does not reflect your mission and values, or a very clear idea of the role, function and most probable country for your next role. Nor do I see a clear outline of what you need from this role in order to develop your own business.&nbsp;<br><br>So, for example, why not take a food sustainability or food logistics MSc at Cranfield or Wageningen? Or why not one of the MIT Scale masters or micromaster? Or surely if you are transitioning from one industry to another, you might move into some legal function in that industry?
quote
Inactive User






- Quit my job in January 2020 to prepare for GMAT full time and get into a full time MBA program. Left job at end of March after serving notice. Initial plan was to give GMAT in July after three months of focused prep. Due to various covid related circumstances I was quite distracted in my prep for the first attempt. Gave three attempts in August, November and December.




- Currently unemployed and torn between taking effort to find another job in my profession (which I do not like) or try to apply to a few lower tier law schools for September.




- Applied to ESMT, Rotterdam, Ivey, SMU and WHU for the full time MBA program. Got rejected by all of them. No reasons given. SMU specifically said they liked my profile and took two rounds of interviews. They also specifically asked if they could push my application file to 2022 and that if I had a slightly higher GMAT I would have made it.




I want to understand what my options are. I am looking at Canada/Europe/UK/Australia and New Zealand.

 


Correct me if I am wrong, but as I understand it - you quit your job just to take the GMAT and are now currently unemployed?  Wow.  Never heard anyone do something like that, particularly in today's situation where jobs are hard to come by.



Perhaps what you did is common in India (I don't know, I never lived there) but in the western world, that decision, combined with a lack of focus, will be viewed very negatively.  Agree wth Duncan, be more razor-focused on your goals (or at least appear that way in your MBA apps).  Your post sounds like you don't really know what to do? - e.g. be a lawyer, stay in India, move to another country, etc.  

[quote]<br><br><br><br>
- Quit my job in January 2020 to prepare for GMAT full time and get into a full time MBA program. Left job at end of March after serving notice. Initial plan was to give GMAT in July after three months of focused prep. Due to various covid related circumstances I was quite distracted in my prep for the first attempt. Gave three attempts in August, November and December. <br><br><br><br>
- Currently unemployed and torn between taking effort to find another job in my profession (which I do not like) or try to apply to a few lower tier law schools for September.<br><br><br><br>
- Applied to ESMT, Rotterdam, Ivey, SMU and WHU for the full time MBA program. Got rejected by all of them. No reasons given. SMU specifically said they liked my profile and took two rounds of interviews. They also specifically asked if they could push my application file to 2022 and that if I had a slightly higher GMAT I would have made it.<br><br><br><br>
I want to understand what my options are. I am looking at Canada/Europe/UK/Australia and New Zealand. <br><br>&nbsp; [/quote]<br><br>Correct me if I am wrong, but as I understand it - you quit your job just to take the GMAT and are now currently unemployed?&nbsp; Wow.&nbsp; Never heard anyone do something like that, particularly in today's situation where jobs are hard to come by.<br><br><br><br>Perhaps what you did is common in India (I don't know, I never lived there) but in the western world, that decision, combined with a lack of focus, will be viewed very negatively.&nbsp; Agree wth Duncan, be more razor-focused on your goals (or at least appear that way in your MBA apps).&nbsp; Your post sounds like you don't really know what to do? - e.g. be a lawyer, stay in India, move to another country, etc.&nbsp;&nbsp;<br>
quote
arvindr92








- Quit my job in January 2020 to prepare for GMAT full time and get into a full time MBA program. Left job at end of March after serving notice. Initial plan was to give GMAT in July after three months of focused prep. Due to various covid related circumstances I was quite distracted in my prep for the first attempt. Gave three attempts in August, November and December.






- Currently unemployed and torn between taking effort to find another job in my profession (which I do not like) or try to apply to a few lower tier law schools for September.






- Applied to ESMT, Rotterdam, Ivey, SMU and WHU for the full time MBA program. Got rejected by all of them. No reasons given. SMU specifically said they liked my profile and took two rounds of interviews. They also specifically asked if they could push my application file to 2022 and that if I had a slightly higher GMAT I would have made it.






I want to understand what my options are. I am looking at Canada/Europe/UK/Australia and New Zealand.

 


Correct me if I am wrong, but as I understand it - you quit your job just to take the GMAT and are now currently unemployed?  Wow.  Never heard anyone do something like that, particularly in today's situation where jobs are hard to come by.



Perhaps what you did is common in India (I don't know, I never lived there) but in the western world, that decision, combined with a lack of focus, will be viewed very negatively.  Agree wth Duncan, be more razor-focused on your goals (or at least appear that way in your MBA apps).  Your post sounds like you don't really know what to do? - e.g. be a lawyer, stay in India, move to another country, etc.  


Working in corporate law in India means putting 12-15 hour days with even weekends sometimes being spent to work - or just being spent recovering your lost sleep. It's very difficult to even hold down a hobby while doing such as job, let alone study for the GMAT. I quit my job for a variety of reasons, other than what I mentioned, maybe the brevity of my post made it appear I had made this decision on a whim.

 (i) I needed a break after working for three years and taking only one vacation in those three years (ii) I realized that I could not put myself in the shoes of my law firm partner as I didn't particularly enjoy my job since I realized my job wasn't contributing to society. I was only padding the profits of big tech; (iii) I wanted to shift my career away from law to something that is more mobile (does not geographically restrict me on where I can work) and where I can work for an organization whose sole goal is not to bill the maximum number of hours; and (iv) If I was to take the GMAT I would need to spend hours of dedicated time to relearn my math skills that I had no use of during my five years of law school and five years of legal work. Math is something that is very challenging for me, hence I wanted to give it special attention. 

I didn't take the decision of pursuing an MBA lightly. I made the decision because (i) It allows me to be a generalist, thus keeping my options open; (ii) It gives me geographical mobility; (iii) It can be done in a relatively short period of 1 or 2 years ; (iv) It allows me to build and expand networks which would align with my eventual goal of starting a business of my own. When I say 'eventual', I mean at least 5-10 years after working in an established food supply/logistics/manufacturing concern. My immediate aim after the MBA will be to secure a job where I can build my nascent skill set. This could be as a consultant in a Tier 2 consulting firm (which hire from the B schools that I am targeting) or as a trainee operations manager at a warehouse or at a factory. I don't really care about the job's location as long as it pays well enough for me to pay off my student loans. 


To summarize - I want to move out of my legal career. That is the main reason I am targeting an MBA.
 

[Edited by arvindr92 on Dec 28, 2020]

[quote][quote]<br><br><br><br><br><br>
- Quit my job in January 2020 to prepare for GMAT full time and get into a full time MBA program. Left job at end of March after serving notice. Initial plan was to give GMAT in July after three months of focused prep. Due to various covid related circumstances I was quite distracted in my prep for the first attempt. Gave three attempts in August, November and December. <br><br><br><br><br><br>
- Currently unemployed and torn between taking effort to find another job in my profession (which I do not like) or try to apply to a few lower tier law schools for September.<br><br><br><br><br><br>
- Applied to ESMT, Rotterdam, Ivey, SMU and WHU for the full time MBA program. Got rejected by all of them. No reasons given. SMU specifically said they liked my profile and took two rounds of interviews. They also specifically asked if they could push my application file to 2022 and that if I had a slightly higher GMAT I would have made it.<br><br><br><br><br><br>
I want to understand what my options are. I am looking at Canada/Europe/UK/Australia and New Zealand. <br><br>&nbsp; [/quote]<br><br>Correct me if I am wrong, but as I understand it - you quit your job just to take the GMAT and are now currently unemployed?&nbsp; Wow.&nbsp; Never heard anyone do something like that, particularly in today's situation where jobs are hard to come by.<br><br><br><br>Perhaps what you did is common in India (I don't know, I never lived there) but in the western world, that decision, combined with a lack of focus, will be viewed very negatively.&nbsp; Agree wth Duncan, be more razor-focused on your goals (or at least appear that way in your MBA apps).&nbsp; Your post sounds like you don't really know what to do? - e.g. be a lawyer, stay in India, move to another country, etc.&nbsp;&nbsp;<br> [/quote]<br><br>Working in corporate law in India means putting 12-15 hour days with even weekends sometimes being spent to work - or just being spent recovering your lost sleep. It's very difficult to even hold down a hobby while doing such as job, let alone study for the GMAT. I quit my job for a variety of reasons, other than what I mentioned, maybe the brevity of my post made it appear I had made this decision on a whim.<br><br>&nbsp;(i) I needed a break after working for three years and taking only one vacation in those three years (ii) I realized that I could not put myself in the shoes of my law firm partner as I didn't particularly enjoy my job since I realized my job wasn't contributing to society. I was only padding the profits of big tech; (iii) I wanted to shift my career away from law to something that is more mobile (does not geographically restrict me on where I can work) and where I can work for an organization whose sole goal is not to bill the maximum number of hours; and (iv) If I was to take the GMAT I would need to spend hours of dedicated time to relearn my math skills that I had no use of during my five years of law school and five years of legal work. Math is something that is very challenging for me, hence I wanted to give it special attention.&nbsp;<br><br>I didn't take the decision of pursuing an MBA lightly. I made the decision because (i) It allows me to be a generalist, thus keeping my options open; (ii) It gives me geographical mobility; (iii) It can be done in a relatively short period of 1 or 2 years ; (iv) It allows me to build and expand networks which would align with my eventual goal of starting a business of my own. When I say 'eventual', I mean at least 5-10 years after working in an established food supply/logistics/manufacturing concern. My immediate aim after the MBA will be to secure a job where I can build my nascent skill set. This could be as a consultant in a Tier 2 consulting firm (which hire from the B schools that I am targeting) or as a trainee operations manager at a warehouse or at a factory. I don't really care about the job's location as long as it pays well enough for me to pay off my student loans.&nbsp;<br><br><br>To summarize - I want to move out of my legal career. That is the main reason I am targeting an MBA.<br>&nbsp;
quote
Inactive User

Have you considered getting your MBA locally (in India)?  Your goals are much more achievable if you get your MBA there.  From the sound of your post, you are not in it for the money but for the career satisfaction.  



When I was doing my MBA in the US, our career services said that an MBA allows one to change one of 3 things: location, industry, position.  Changing 1 is easy, changing 2 things is difficult and changing all 3 is extremely difficult.  If you want to stay outside India after a foreign MBA, your options will likely be limited to your current industry/position (which you dislike, as I understand).  So your best option is to get your MBA in India.   Just my 2c.

I do feel for your situation.  I would still search for a job in the meantime, as it boosts your CV when it's time to apply.  Otherwise, you would have to explain the gap to adcoms.  

Best of luck.  


Have you considered getting your MBA locally (in India)?&nbsp; Your goals are much more achievable if you get your MBA there.&nbsp; From the sound of your post, you are not in it for the money but for the career satisfaction.&nbsp;&nbsp;<br><br><br><br>When I was doing my MBA in the US, our career services said that an MBA allows one to change one of 3 things: location, industry, position.&nbsp; Changing 1 is easy, changing 2 things is difficult and changing all 3 is extremely difficult.&nbsp; If you want to stay outside India after a foreign MBA, your options will likely be limited to your current industry/position (which you dislike, as I understand).&nbsp; So your best option is to get your MBA in India.&nbsp; &nbsp;Just my 2c.<br><br>I do feel for your situation.&nbsp; I would still search for a job in the meantime, as it boosts your CV when it's time to apply.&nbsp; Otherwise, you would have to explain the gap to adcoms.&nbsp;&nbsp;<br><br>Best of luck.&nbsp;&nbsp;<br><br><br>
quote
ria basu

Hi all,


My profile is as follows:


- 58 months months work ex (just short of 5 years)


- 1.5 years general corporate law, 3 years specialist technology work (included a secondment with Facebook)


- Quit my job in January 2020 to prepare for GMAT full time and get into a full time MBA program. Left job at end of March after serving notice. Initial plan was to give GMAT in July after three months of focused prep. Due to various covid related circumstances I was quite distracted in my prep for the first attempt. Gave three attempts in August, November and December.


-Scored 640 (34v/44q), 650 (40v/40q) and 640 (35v/43q) in all the three attempts. The only saving grace was that my IR score went from 4 to 6 and finally 8. AWA was stable for the first two attempts at 6 and for some strange reason crashed to 4 in my latest attempt (I have no idea why)


- Currently unemployed and torn between taking effort to find another job in my profession (which I do not like) or try to apply to a few lower tier law schools for September.


- Applied to ESMT, Rotterdam, Ivey, SMU and WHU for the full time MBA program. Got rejected by all of them. No reasons given. SMU specifically said they liked my profile and took two rounds of interviews. They also specifically asked if they could push my application file to 2022 and that if I had a slightly higher GMAT I would have made it.


I want to understand what my options are. I am looking at Canada/Europe/UK/Australia and New Zealand.


My goal is to eventually start my own business, in food processing or waste recycling. Starting my business has always been a dream of mine, but I could not see myself become a law firm partner as I did not feel my job was contributing much to society. Therefore, I am looking for a supply chain or sustainability specialization.


I have seen a few posts here about Hult as taking in 'just about anyone'. Is Hult a money making machine for it's management or do they actually have a competent faculty and support system. Honestly, I am not looking for a brand name and a high rank. I know I can manage if I am given the right tools and facilities to achieve my goals.


I just don't want to do an MBA overseas (and take on significant debt() if the B School doesn't contribute anything apart from an MBA certificate.

Thank you in advance and Happy Holidays to all!. 


Hi, I am literally in the same predicament as you. And as is glaringly apparent from a lot of these comments to your post, none of these people actually understood or even tried to understand the problem. I found most responses to be pretty condescending really. Have you decided on a MBA? I would really like to know what decision you've made.


[quote]Hi all,<br><br>
My profile is as follows:<br><br>
- 58 months months work ex (just short of 5 years)<br><br>
- 1.5 years general corporate law, 3 years specialist technology work (included a secondment with Facebook)<br><br>
- Quit my job in January 2020 to prepare for GMAT full time and get into a full time MBA program. Left job at end of March after serving notice. Initial plan was to give GMAT in July after three months of focused prep. Due to various covid related circumstances I was quite distracted in my prep for the first attempt. Gave three attempts in August, November and December. <br><br>
-Scored 640 (34v/44q), 650 (40v/40q) and 640 (35v/43q) in all the three attempts. The only saving grace was that my IR score went from 4 to 6 and finally 8. AWA was stable for the first two attempts at 6 and for some strange reason crashed to 4 in my latest attempt (I have no idea why)<br><br>
- Currently unemployed and torn between taking effort to find another job in my profession (which I do not like) or try to apply to a few lower tier law schools for September.<br><br>
- Applied to ESMT, Rotterdam, Ivey, SMU and WHU for the full time MBA program. Got rejected by all of them. No reasons given. SMU specifically said they liked my profile and took two rounds of interviews. They also specifically asked if they could push my application file to 2022 and that if I had a slightly higher GMAT I would have made it.<br><br>
I want to understand what my options are. I am looking at Canada/Europe/UK/Australia and New Zealand. <br><br>
My goal is to eventually start my own business, in food processing or waste recycling. Starting my business has always been a dream of mine, but I could not see myself become a law firm partner as I did not feel my job was contributing much to society. Therefore, I am looking for a supply chain or sustainability specialization.<br><br>
I have seen a few posts here about Hult as taking in 'just about anyone'. Is Hult a money making machine for it's management or do they actually have a competent faculty and support system. Honestly, I am not looking for a brand name and a high rank. I know I can manage if I am given the right tools and facilities to achieve my goals. <br><br>
I just don't want to do an MBA overseas (and take on significant debt() if the B School doesn't contribute anything apart from an MBA certificate.<br><br>Thank you in advance and Happy Holidays to all!.&nbsp; [/quote]<br><br>Hi, I am literally in the same predicament as you. And as is glaringly apparent from a lot of these comments to your post, none of these people actually understood or even tried to understand the problem. I found most responses to be pretty condescending really. Have you decided on a MBA? I would really like to know what decision you've made.<br><br><br>
quote
StuartHE

The OPs problem is that they don't understand their options. They can't clarify their options because they have not established clear goals. If you find that condescending, imagine how condescending it would be to not point that out and let them make a huge investment that would not serve their long-term interests. 

The OPs problem is that they don't understand their options. They can't clarify their options because they have not established clear goals. If you find that condescending, imagine how condescending it would be to not point that out and let them make a huge investment that would not serve their long-term interests.&nbsp;
quote
laurie

I agree, this is not condescending at all. This was the OP's goal:

To summarize - I want to move out of my legal career. That is the main reason I am targeting an MBA.

If that's what you are going to tell an MBA admission committee, you will certainly have a bad time. They'll want to know (1) ok, you want to get out of law, but where do you want to go in terms of industry? and hopefully (2) which specific companies are you interested in working for?

Without that kind of thinking about your goals - or at least some concrete ideas - schools won't really know if you are suitable for the companies who recruit from their schools. And since getting students good jobs is a goal of most business schools, that's extremely problematic. 

I agree, this is not condescending at all. This was the OP's goal:<br><br>[quote]To summarize - I want to move out of my legal career. That is the main reason I am targeting an MBA.[/quote]<br>If that's what you are going to tell an MBA admission committee, you will certainly have a bad time. They'll want to know (1) ok, you want to get out of law, but where do you want to go in terms of industry? and hopefully (2) which specific companies are you interested in working for?<br><br>Without that kind of thinking about your goals - or at least some concrete ideas - schools won't really know if you are suitable for the companies who recruit from their schools. And since getting students good jobs is a goal of most business schools, that's extremely problematic.&nbsp;
quote

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