Real, open and honest feedback of an Asian MBA alumni to prospective students


I have thought long and hard about how to represent what i am about to say in words where i do not hurt any sentiments, unfortunately after much deliberation i have come to the conclusion that i need to be real to myself and clearly represent my journey and its outcome, i apologize in advance for any sentiments i hurt.

1) In my view most Asian students can be Doctors and Engineers and still be the least educated person in their family or somebody who is considered less in their achievements, i know this sounds really strange, but being born in a country with more than 1 billion population, your achievement are constantly compared with the best and brightest and just having a degree is not enough, but having it from a reputed institute is also important, and to get through a reputed institute our society as a whole makes us work right from as early as 12 years to start prepping for all entrance exams, where even half a point can make or break your entire career trajectory, the reason i bring this point is from a cultural perspective the way an Asian student thinks is "Ohhh i have worked so hard in my life to achieve success, i have completed a bachelors from a reputed institution, i am much better than my peers according to my college ranking, i have 5-7 or maybe 10 years of experience and now i deserve to get an MBA and a respectable job somewhere in mid or higher management"
- I am sorry to say none of this matters in Europe, their economy is build around protecting and employing their citizens (which in my opinion is completely amazing for them), but unfortunately for Asian students none of your hard-work really matters in the way you would think it will. 95% of jobs are not even open for Non-Europeans, it does not matter if you are ready to take a job which is much lower than your current position, or if you have all of the skills required for the job and more to offer to the hiring team, you are automatically disqualified as most positions are pre-determined as "European citizen hire only" positions. Any university claiming they can help you is just lying to you, internship maybe yes, but a well paying respectable job can only be achieved if you come from an extremely niche work background and the university will just give you a platform for change in location, but then if your profile is good enough, you do not need the degree, you can apply online on the job portal and in most cases in my friend and family circle the result has not varied, and an MBA has added no value to an existing career path.

2) Qualifications do not matter: So my suggestion here would be go on LinkedIn and check profiles of people working on a similar position as you, I will give you an example, in India an Analyst is a person who will be an engineer, have strong technical skills, will have knowledge and experience in technical languages and at-least 2-3 certifications which make him/her more that qualified to analyse and work on any data, while a similar profile from Europe will be from a non-technical person, with no prior experience in data handling, modelling or analysis, sometimes they just mention "with inclination towards data handling" in their job description and that is enough.
- I know this will come as a shock, and i will admit i am completely biased here, but when you work your entire life, make all the sacrifices and are more than qualified to be hired for a position which ultimately is given to a person who has bachelors in french or psychology or anything that has got nothing to do with technical studies or analysis (which is the core requirement for that position), you feel your entire life is a joke and the fact that your parents taught you hard-work always pays off is just a lie. You would never hire a Bachelor in psychology student to perform a heart surgery and i know this is classic case of hyperbole, but why do companies feel anyone and everyone can work in digital sector is beyond my understanding. The only conclusion i have reached is that if they do not place their students into IT or digital jobs, 60 -70% of their country will be unemployed and so they just give people jobs and get the work done from back offices in Asian countries with cheap labor while giving fancy titles to people who would not know what to do if by mistake they are made to sit in front of an actual analytical software.

3) Claims of better placement is just an extension of the ongoing pretense that their institutional existence has some value, i have a masters and an MBA from so called reputed institutes in Europe i will enlist some of their so-called placement strategies
- so since they have promised you we will get some company, they will ask some senior alumni to show up for the company presentation (which is considered as an careers event), when you try to find out if the person knows about or has any open positions which he/she wants to talk about, most of the times there are none, and even if there is something as the alumni is mostly European (they are more interested in someone who speaks their language), again as earlier stated, you actual hard-work and degree and experience does not matter much.
- most events are just some HR or people coming and talking about their company in general, if you email them later on the email address that was provided by the visiting person, you get a generic reply like, please apply on the company website, so if you are thinking i will at-least get to give my resume to the right person and that is what will give me an advantage (hahahaha) i am laughing because i had the same thought and my god i was so naive, now that i am in a senior position i get replies like "we are so sorry we cannot consider you because we cannot hire a non-European for this position".

4) Last but not the least the one point that i dread discussing because this is going to make me look like a complete monster, the quality of your so called peers, now this is completely personal but i would never say i am as good as a heart surgeon, nor will i ever assume we both can sit and have a discussion as peers, i can learn a lot from this surgeon related to his/her field but it will never be a discussion of peers. Similarly when you are in your bachelors since Asia has a strict entrance exam policy for most popular universities, you end up with people from similar interests and intellectual capacity, unfortunately since education is not as competitive in Europe, you end up with a class where all the Asian kids are Phd's, doctors, CA's, engineers (STEM) and Europeans that are from business administration, HR, real estate, arts and psychology (non-STEM) background. Unfortunately general knowledge about basic geography and respect for other cultures is also lacking (or missing). This makes the case study discussions extremely boring and if you have just invested your entire life's saving into this one degree, you just end up depressed with the reality of life.

So please think long and hard before going for an European MBA, check similar profiles on LinkedIn, do not assume that because in your country a specific job requires immense amount of skills it will be similar in European region and please accept reality before you step into this world, believe me you need to research a lot and get honest feedback from non-Europeans and not blindly trust the marketing gimmicks of a lot of MBA school.

So i am pretty sure, if you have reached the end, you must be like this post is definitely written by someone who just couldn't get a job so they are venting (i agree that is partly true), but just for your information i have work experience from 2 different European countries (both time hired to work in specific company headquarters at reputable posts) and 3 degrees (all from reputed European schools). The reason for anonymity, I am just afraid, people do not like when you speak the truth, and unfortunately we live in a time when the difference in education is just glaringly evident, nobody wants to accept it, i am extremely unhappy that less deserving people get to live happy and healthy lives when someone who has worked hard and put 14 years of their life in building a career gets to lose a job to someone whose qualification is "citizenship". I can understand you giving preference and protection to people who are born in your country, what i do not agree with is giving them fancy titles (which they absolutely do not deserve) and then getting the work done from a cheap labour country back-office without giving the person doing the work actual credit.

I have thought long and hard about how to represent what i am about to say in words where i do not hurt any sentiments, unfortunately after much deliberation i have come to the conclusion that i need to be real to myself and clearly represent my journey and its outcome, i apologize in advance for any sentiments i hurt.

1) In my view most Asian students can be Doctors and Engineers and still be the least educated person in their family or somebody who is considered less in their achievements, i know this sounds really strange, but being born in a country with more than 1 billion population, your achievement are constantly compared with the best and brightest and just having a degree is not enough, but having it from a reputed institute is also important, and to get through a reputed institute our society as a whole makes us work right from as early as 12 years to start prepping for all entrance exams, where even half a point can make or break your entire career trajectory, the reason i bring this point is from a cultural perspective the way an Asian student thinks is "Ohhh i have worked so hard in my life to achieve success, i have completed a bachelors from a reputed institution, i am much better than my peers according to my college ranking, i have 5-7 or maybe 10 years of experience and now i deserve to get an MBA and a respectable job somewhere in mid or higher management"
- I am sorry to say none of this matters in Europe, their economy is build around protecting and employing their citizens (which in my opinion is completely amazing for them), but unfortunately for Asian students none of your hard-work really matters in the way you would think it will. 95% of jobs are not even open for Non-Europeans, it does not matter if you are ready to take a job which is much lower than your current position, or if you have all of the skills required for the job and more to offer to the hiring team, you are automatically disqualified as most positions are pre-determined as "European citizen hire only" positions. Any university claiming they can help you is just lying to you, internship maybe yes, but a well paying respectable job can only be achieved if you come from an extremely niche work background and the university will just give you a platform for change in location, but then if your profile is good enough, you do not need the degree, you can apply online on the job portal and in most cases in my friend and family circle the result has not varied, and an MBA has added no value to an existing career path.

2) Qualifications do not matter: So my suggestion here would be go on LinkedIn and check profiles of people working on a similar position as you, I will give you an example, in India an Analyst is a person who will be an engineer, have strong technical skills, will have knowledge and experience in technical languages and at-least 2-3 certifications which make him/her more that qualified to analyse and work on any data, while a similar profile from Europe will be from a non-technical person, with no prior experience in data handling, modelling or analysis, sometimes they just mention "with inclination towards data handling" in their job description and that is enough.
- I know this will come as a shock, and i will admit i am completely biased here, but when you work your entire life, make all the sacrifices and are more than qualified to be hired for a position which ultimately is given to a person who has bachelors in french or psychology or anything that has got nothing to do with technical studies or analysis (which is the core requirement for that position), you feel your entire life is a joke and the fact that your parents taught you hard-work always pays off is just a lie. You would never hire a Bachelor in psychology student to perform a heart surgery and i know this is classic case of hyperbole, but why do companies feel anyone and everyone can work in digital sector is beyond my understanding. The only conclusion i have reached is that if they do not place their students into IT or digital jobs, 60 -70% of their country will be unemployed and so they just give people jobs and get the work done from back offices in Asian countries with cheap labor while giving fancy titles to people who would not know what to do if by mistake they are made to sit in front of an actual analytical software.

3) Claims of better placement is just an extension of the ongoing pretense that their institutional existence has some value, i have a masters and an MBA from so called reputed institutes in Europe i will enlist some of their so-called placement strategies
- so since they have promised you we will get some company, they will ask some senior alumni to show up for the company presentation (which is considered as an careers event), when you try to find out if the person knows about or has any open positions which he/she wants to talk about, most of the times there are none, and even if there is something as the alumni is mostly European (they are more interested in someone who speaks their language), again as earlier stated, you actual hard-work and degree and experience does not matter much.
- most events are just some HR or people coming and talking about their company in general, if you email them later on the email address that was provided by the visiting person, you get a generic reply like, please apply on the company website, so if you are thinking i will at-least get to give my resume to the right person and that is what will give me an advantage (hahahaha) i am laughing because i had the same thought and my god i was so naive, now that i am in a senior position i get replies like "we are so sorry we cannot consider you because we cannot hire a non-European for this position".

4) Last but not the least the one point that i dread discussing because this is going to make me look like a complete monster, the quality of your so called peers, now this is completely personal but i would never say i am as good as a heart surgeon, nor will i ever assume we both can sit and have a discussion as peers, i can learn a lot from this surgeon related to his/her field but it will never be a discussion of peers. Similarly when you are in your bachelors since Asia has a strict entrance exam policy for most popular universities, you end up with people from similar interests and intellectual capacity, unfortunately since education is not as competitive in Europe, you end up with a class where all the Asian kids are Phd's, doctors, CA's, engineers (STEM) and Europeans that are from business administration, HR, real estate, arts and psychology (non-STEM) background. Unfortunately general knowledge about basic geography and respect for other cultures is also lacking (or missing). This makes the case study discussions extremely boring and if you have just invested your entire life's saving into this one degree, you just end up depressed with the reality of life.

So please think long and hard before going for an European MBA, check similar profiles on LinkedIn, do not assume that because in your country a specific job requires immense amount of skills it will be similar in European region and please accept reality before you step into this world, believe me you need to research a lot and get honest feedback from non-Europeans and not blindly trust the marketing gimmicks of a lot of MBA school.

So i am pretty sure, if you have reached the end, you must be like this post is definitely written by someone who just couldn't get a job so they are venting (i agree that is partly true), but just for your information i have work experience from 2 different European countries (both time hired to work in specific company headquarters at reputable posts) and 3 degrees (all from reputed European schools). The reason for anonymity, I am just afraid, people do not like when you speak the truth, and unfortunately we live in a time when the difference in education is just glaringly evident, nobody wants to accept it, i am extremely unhappy that less deserving people get to live happy and healthy lives when someone who has worked hard and put 14 years of their life in building a career gets to lose a job to someone whose qualification is "citizenship". I can understand you giving preference and protection to people who are born in your country, what i do not agree with is giving them fancy titles (which they absolutely do not deserve) and then getting the work done from a cheap labour country back-office without giving the person doing the work actual credit.
quote
Duncan

I don't doubt that this person has real experiences. However, it remains the case that most students in top MBA programmes who are from outside the EU and want to find work in the EU country where they study, and who speak the business language of that country, do find work there. A great pair of posts to read is https://find-mba.com/board/general-forum/best-mbas-for-international-students-placement-35651 and then https://find-mba.com/board/europe/do-you-need-to-speak-the-local-language-29546

I don't doubt that this person has real experiences. However, it remains the case that most students in top MBA programmes who are from outside the EU and want to find work in the EU country where they study, and who speak the business language of that country, do find work there. A great pair of posts to read is https://find-mba.com/board/general-forum/best-mbas-for-international-students-placement-35651 and then https://find-mba.com/board/europe/do-you-need-to-speak-the-local-language-29546
quote

I have thought long and hard about how to represent what i am about to say in words where i do not hurt any sentiments, unfortunately after much deliberation i have come to the conclusion that i need to be real to myself and clearly represent my journey and its outcome, i apologize in advance for any sentiments i hurt.

1) In my view most Asian students can be Doctors and Engineers and still be the least educated person in their family or somebody who is considered less in their achievements, i know this sounds really strange, but being born in a country with more than 1 billion population, your achievement are constantly compared with the best and brightest and just having a degree is not enough, but having it from a reputed institute is also important, and to get through a reputed institute our society as a whole makes us work right from as early as 12 years to start prepping for all entrance exams, where even half a point can make or break your entire career trajectory, the reason i bring this point is from a cultural perspective the way an Asian student thinks is "Ohhh i have worked so hard in my life to achieve success, i have completed a bachelors from a reputed institution, i am much better than my peers according to my college ranking, i have 5-7 or maybe 10 years of experience and now i deserve to get an MBA and a respectable job somewhere in mid or higher management"
- I am sorry to say none of this matters in Europe, their economy is build around protecting and employing their citizens (which in my opinion is completely amazing for them), but unfortunately for Asian students none of your hard-work really matters in the way you would think it will. 95% of jobs are not even open for Non-Europeans, it does not matter if you are ready to take a job which is much lower than your current position, or if you have all of the skills required for the job and more to offer to the hiring team, you are automatically disqualified as most positions are pre-determined as "European citizen hire only" positions. Any university claiming they can help you is just lying to you, internship maybe yes, but a well paying respectable job can only be achieved if you come from an extremely niche work background and the university will just give you a platform for change in location, but then if your profile is good enough, you do not need the degree, you can apply online on the job portal and in most cases in my friend and family circle the result has not varied, and an MBA has added no value to an existing career path.

2) Qualifications do not matter: So my suggestion here would be go on LinkedIn and check profiles of people working on a similar position as you, I will give you an example, in India an Analyst is a person who will be an engineer, have strong technical skills, will have knowledge and experience in technical languages and at-least 2-3 certifications which make him/her more that qualified to analyse and work on any data, while a similar profile from Europe will be from a non-technical person, with no prior experience in data handling, modelling or analysis, sometimes they just mention "with inclination towards data handling" in their job description and that is enough.
- I know this will come as a shock, and i will admit i am completely biased here, but when you work your entire life, make all the sacrifices and are more than qualified to be hired for a position which ultimately is given to a person who has bachelors in french or psychology or anything that has got nothing to do with technical studies or analysis (which is the core requirement for that position), you feel your entire life is a joke and the fact that your parents taught you hard-work always pays off is just a lie. You would never hire a Bachelor in psychology student to perform a heart surgery and i know this is classic case of hyperbole, but why do companies feel anyone and everyone can work in digital sector is beyond my understanding. The only conclusion i have reached is that if they do not place their students into IT or digital jobs, 60 -70% of their country will be unemployed and so they just give people jobs and get the work done from back offices in Asian countries with cheap labor while giving fancy titles to people who would not know what to do if by mistake they are made to sit in front of an actual analytical software.

3) Claims of better placement is just an extension of the ongoing pretense that their institutional existence has some value, i have a masters and an MBA from so called reputed institutes in Europe i will enlist some of their so-called placement strategies
- so since they have promised you we will get some company, they will ask some senior alumni to show up for the company presentation (which is considered as an careers event), when you try to find out if the person knows about or has any open positions which he/she wants to talk about, most of the times there are none, and even if there is something as the alumni is mostly European (they are more interested in someone who speaks their language), again as earlier stated, you actual hard-work and degree and experience does not matter much.
- most events are just some HR or people coming and talking about their company in general, if you email them later on the email address that was provided by the visiting person, you get a generic reply like, please apply on the company website, so if you are thinking i will at-least get to give my resume to the right person and that is what will give me an advantage (hahahaha) i am laughing because i had the same thought and my god i was so naive, now that i am in a senior position i get replies like "we are so sorry we cannot consider you because we cannot hire a non-European for this position".

4) Last but not the least the one point that i dread discussing because this is going to make me look like a complete monster, the quality of your so called peers, now this is completely personal but i would never say i am as good as a heart surgeon, nor will i ever assume we both can sit and have a discussion as peers, i can learn a lot from this surgeon related to his/her field but it will never be a discussion of peers. Similarly when you are in your bachelors since Asia has a strict entrance exam policy for most popular universities, you end up with people from similar interests and intellectual capacity, unfortunately since education is not as competitive in Europe, you end up with a class where all the Asian kids are Phd's, doctors, CA's, engineers (STEM) and Europeans that are from business administration, HR, real estate, arts and psychology (non-STEM) background. Unfortunately general knowledge about basic geography and respect for other cultures is also lacking (or missing). This makes the case study discussions extremely boring and if you have just invested your entire life's saving into this one degree, you just end up depressed with the reality of life.

So please think long and hard before going for an European MBA, check similar profiles on LinkedIn, do not assume that because in your country a specific job requires immense amount of skills it will be similar in European region and please accept reality before you step into this world, believe me you need to research a lot and get honest feedback from non-Europeans and not blindly trust the marketing gimmicks of a lot of MBA school.

So i am pretty sure, if you have reached the end, you must be like this post is definitely written by someone who just couldn't get a job so they are venting (i agree that is partly true), but just for your information i have work experience from 2 different European countries (both time hired to work in specific company headquarters at reputable posts) and 3 degrees (all from reputed European schools). The reason for anonymity, I am just afraid, people do not like when you speak the truth, and unfortunately we live in a time when the difference in education is just glaringly evident, nobody wants to accept it, i am extremely unhappy that less deserving people get to live happy and healthy lives when someone who has worked hard and put 14 years of their life in building a career gets to lose a job to someone whose qualification is "citizenship". I can understand you giving preference and protection to people who are born in your country, what i do not agree with is giving them fancy titles (which they absolutely do not deserve) and then getting the work done from a cheap labour country back-office without giving the person doing the work actual credit.


Thanks for sharing your experience. As an Asian, this information is very useful and valuable. 

[quote]I have thought long and hard about how to represent what i am about to say in words where i do not hurt any sentiments, unfortunately after much deliberation i have come to the conclusion that i need to be real to myself and clearly represent my journey and its outcome, i apologize in advance for any sentiments i hurt.

1) In my view most Asian students can be Doctors and Engineers and still be the least educated person in their family or somebody who is considered less in their achievements, i know this sounds really strange, but being born in a country with more than 1 billion population, your achievement are constantly compared with the best and brightest and just having a degree is not enough, but having it from a reputed institute is also important, and to get through a reputed institute our society as a whole makes us work right from as early as 12 years to start prepping for all entrance exams, where even half a point can make or break your entire career trajectory, the reason i bring this point is from a cultural perspective the way an Asian student thinks is "Ohhh i have worked so hard in my life to achieve success, i have completed a bachelors from a reputed institution, i am much better than my peers according to my college ranking, i have 5-7 or maybe 10 years of experience and now i deserve to get an MBA and a respectable job somewhere in mid or higher management"
- I am sorry to say none of this matters in Europe, their economy is build around protecting and employing their citizens (which in my opinion is completely amazing for them), but unfortunately for Asian students none of your hard-work really matters in the way you would think it will. 95% of jobs are not even open for Non-Europeans, it does not matter if you are ready to take a job which is much lower than your current position, or if you have all of the skills required for the job and more to offer to the hiring team, you are automatically disqualified as most positions are pre-determined as "European citizen hire only" positions. Any university claiming they can help you is just lying to you, internship maybe yes, but a well paying respectable job can only be achieved if you come from an extremely niche work background and the university will just give you a platform for change in location, but then if your profile is good enough, you do not need the degree, you can apply online on the job portal and in most cases in my friend and family circle the result has not varied, and an MBA has added no value to an existing career path.

2) Qualifications do not matter: So my suggestion here would be go on LinkedIn and check profiles of people working on a similar position as you, I will give you an example, in India an Analyst is a person who will be an engineer, have strong technical skills, will have knowledge and experience in technical languages and at-least 2-3 certifications which make him/her more that qualified to analyse and work on any data, while a similar profile from Europe will be from a non-technical person, with no prior experience in data handling, modelling or analysis, sometimes they just mention "with inclination towards data handling" in their job description and that is enough.
- I know this will come as a shock, and i will admit i am completely biased here, but when you work your entire life, make all the sacrifices and are more than qualified to be hired for a position which ultimately is given to a person who has bachelors in french or psychology or anything that has got nothing to do with technical studies or analysis (which is the core requirement for that position), you feel your entire life is a joke and the fact that your parents taught you hard-work always pays off is just a lie. You would never hire a Bachelor in psychology student to perform a heart surgery and i know this is classic case of hyperbole, but why do companies feel anyone and everyone can work in digital sector is beyond my understanding. The only conclusion i have reached is that if they do not place their students into IT or digital jobs, 60 -70% of their country will be unemployed and so they just give people jobs and get the work done from back offices in Asian countries with cheap labor while giving fancy titles to people who would not know what to do if by mistake they are made to sit in front of an actual analytical software.

3) Claims of better placement is just an extension of the ongoing pretense that their institutional existence has some value, i have a masters and an MBA from so called reputed institutes in Europe i will enlist some of their so-called placement strategies
- so since they have promised you we will get some company, they will ask some senior alumni to show up for the company presentation (which is considered as an careers event), when you try to find out if the person knows about or has any open positions which he/she wants to talk about, most of the times there are none, and even if there is something as the alumni is mostly European (they are more interested in someone who speaks their language), again as earlier stated, you actual hard-work and degree and experience does not matter much.
- most events are just some HR or people coming and talking about their company in general, if you email them later on the email address that was provided by the visiting person, you get a generic reply like, please apply on the company website, so if you are thinking i will at-least get to give my resume to the right person and that is what will give me an advantage (hahahaha) i am laughing because i had the same thought and my god i was so naive, now that i am in a senior position i get replies like "we are so sorry we cannot consider you because we cannot hire a non-European for this position".

4) Last but not the least the one point that i dread discussing because this is going to make me look like a complete monster, the quality of your so called peers, now this is completely personal but i would never say i am as good as a heart surgeon, nor will i ever assume we both can sit and have a discussion as peers, i can learn a lot from this surgeon related to his/her field but it will never be a discussion of peers. Similarly when you are in your bachelors since Asia has a strict entrance exam policy for most popular universities, you end up with people from similar interests and intellectual capacity, unfortunately since education is not as competitive in Europe, you end up with a class where all the Asian kids are Phd's, doctors, CA's, engineers (STEM) and Europeans that are from business administration, HR, real estate, arts and psychology (non-STEM) background. Unfortunately general knowledge about basic geography and respect for other cultures is also lacking (or missing). This makes the case study discussions extremely boring and if you have just invested your entire life's saving into this one degree, you just end up depressed with the reality of life.

So please think long and hard before going for an European MBA, check similar profiles on LinkedIn, do not assume that because in your country a specific job requires immense amount of skills it will be similar in European region and please accept reality before you step into this world, believe me you need to research a lot and get honest feedback from non-Europeans and not blindly trust the marketing gimmicks of a lot of MBA school.

So i am pretty sure, if you have reached the end, you must be like this post is definitely written by someone who just couldn't get a job so they are venting (i agree that is partly true), but just for your information i have work experience from 2 different European countries (both time hired to work in specific company headquarters at reputable posts) and 3 degrees (all from reputed European schools). The reason for anonymity, I am just afraid, people do not like when you speak the truth, and unfortunately we live in a time when the difference in education is just glaringly evident, nobody wants to accept it, i am extremely unhappy that less deserving people get to live happy and healthy lives when someone who has worked hard and put 14 years of their life in building a career gets to lose a job to someone whose qualification is "citizenship". I can understand you giving preference and protection to people who are born in your country, what i do not agree with is giving them fancy titles (which they absolutely do not deserve) and then getting the work done from a cheap labour country back-office without giving the person doing the work actual credit. [/quote]<br><br>Thanks for sharing your experience. As an Asian, this information is very useful and valuable.&nbsp;<br><br>
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