Hello Noya, I talked to an Indonesian friend yesterday, who lives in Frankfurt for some years already, and she says that she finds it quite pleasant to live in a cooler climate after all those years she had to stand the Indonesian heat - because it is always hot, and never cools off, and there you have many different kind of weathers. She never missed the heat, can you imagine?
Tht's the way I'll look at it! ;)

ok, that's what I thought - I was really wondering how could I mix that up.
About the rankings, you don't find SBS in the top ones, that's true, but it is the third Swiss school to appear (sometimes..) in the international rankings after IMD and St. Gallen

I was a bit surprised as well to read Joerg's comments. In the rankings I know I only found IMD, St. Gallen, Business School Lausanne.

This is a great discussion group.
I am looking for MBA in the French speaking part of Europe.
The tution is something that is bearing heavily in my mind.
I have upto USD 15,000 in savings, and I am not taking any loans at all. I know that part time work can take care of your stay. With this in mind, IMD and SBS are ruled out.
I just started researching as to what next.
Also what are the chances of getting a job in the same country after the MBA, especially for non EU residents.

Saka, if you want to make sure to find a job in EU after finishing your MBA, you should chose a program with a good reputation.
This is not so easy within your financial limits. I think for you a part time MBA would be the best option.

For one it will allow you to finance your studies. Don't forget that you'll need to cover your living costs, and 15 000 USD will probably not be enough for this only, and French speaking Europe is not the cheapest part. Plus tuition...

Besides, especially in order to stay in Europa, it makes a lot of sense for you to work already during your MBA. For non EU residents it's not so difficult to get a study visa in EU. After after the end of the studies it becomes a lot more complicated. Best way to get a working permit is an employer. If f.eg. you work during your MBA for 2 years, your employer will certainly make some efforts to keep you afterwards. Whereas it is a lot more difficult to find a job after your studies.

Of course, if you do one of the top programs like IMD, INSEAD, or IE, you don't need to worry about finding a job afterwards I would say...

Hey Irena

Thanks for your quick response.

As you said part time MBA would suit me perfectly provided I can actually get a student visa for part time MBA. I am currently in the US on a work permit. At least here I know that they dont give student visa for part time studies. I think I will ask the colleges or the consulate here about that.

I have about 15K right now and perhaps could get another 15K by next year this time, which would be enough or tution in a few reputed colleges. About the living costs, I was thinking or working part time doing odd jobs. I am into IT with 6 years of development expertise in J2EE.

There is Webster University in Geneva and another one Grenoble Graduate School of Business, have you heard about those.

Also I have an MS from US for which I appeared for TOFEL. That was 9 years ago. Is it still required that I appear for the exam again or my MS degree would be sufficient?

I know ... too many questions.

Thanks again for your advice,

HI Saka,
I would not do odd jobs, but try to find something with a good perspective for the future.
I have an Indonesian friend f.ex. who is currently finishing her business studies in Frankfurt and she works part time at American express. She often tells me how annoying it is to get a visa, but she always gets it as long as she is a student. But now that the end of her studies approach, she is so happy to have the backing of her employer for the visa issue!
Besides, and that is the main advantage, American express is very likely to keep her as an employee, wheras they are firing other poeple. This shows that she has quite some value for them.

Try to find something where you at least might want to continue working afterwards, with IT that should be possible, no?

Hi Iuri

Thanks for your feedback.

That was what I have in mind as well.

Get a job in a company which can be made fulltime after graduation. This way that pay could be a bit better than working in a restaurant and will have the prospect of getting the work permit soon after graduation. My IT background, I am hoping would be able to secure me a decent position during my study.

The other part of my previous post, have you heard about Websters in Geneva and Grenoble Business school in France. Grenoble has three accreditions (AMBA, AACSB and Equis) and is rated 4th in one of FT ratings. Nothing about Websters though.

Hello,
Grenoble BSchool i can only recommend. As you say, it is triple accredited, and has good positions in the rankings, which establishes its high quality. Besides, I had very goood echos from people who studied there.

The other school you mention, Websters, is not known, at least I haven't heard about it, and it's not in the rankings as far as I can see. Did you check the accreditations?

Do you intend to do a specialized MBA in your field, IT, or a general one?
Laurent

Hi

It is nice to get a second opinion saying that Grenoble is a good one. Just wanted to hear it.

Webster's is a US based univeristy with a campus in Geneva. I couldn't see any accreditions and hence was asking about it.

Also I have an MS in CS from a university in US, for which I already appeared for TOEFL, Do I need to appear for TOEFL again. Anyone knows about it.

Thanks you.

Hi Laurent

I forgot to answer your question.

I haven't finalized yet. I want to remain in the technology sector with focus on international management.

Hello Saka,
ItS true that the Grenoble Graduate School of Business is perfect for your needs, a part time MBA with concentrations in both of your fields of interest. There are probably not many other part time MBAs in France combining the 2 fields, I don't know about any other.

Maybe you can have a look at ESC Rouen and Lilles which are listed in the FT euro ranking too. But I can't give you any evaluation, I don't know those.

Why do you favour French speaking Europe? Do you speak French? Would you want to study in French or English?

Hi Laurent

I want to study and work in a non English speaking country now that I worked in the US for over 6 years, after my 2 years of MS here.

I know a little bit of French, not a lot but just the basics. So I prefer France or the French speaking part of Switzerland. Of course the schools have to be good and also be affordable for me. I will pursue a progam in English.

Also I have to apply for a student visa to study either in France or in Switzerland as I am not a EU resident. Do you know if I can study part-time with a student visa. Here in the US, it is not possible as student visa requires enrollment in a full-time program.

Thank you.

Hello Saka,
Did you have a look in French speaking Belgium? I know there are only very few MBAs, but maybe something for you?

About the visa question, concerning EU I'm quite sure that you can also get a student visa if you don't study full time, like if you do evening studies. But let me check that, there must me a minimum number of hours. I'll come back to you.

Hi Iuri

Thanks for the favour, I appreciate it.

I did not look at any programs outside France and Switzerland. To be honest, I was unware that French is spoken in Belgium as well.

I wanted to talk to the university folks directly to get information about student visa limitations.

These are the ones that I am seriously considering, in order:
1. EM Lyon
2. Grenoble
3. SBS
4. HEC Luasanne

The tution costs are a major factor in my selection as I will be funding it out of my savings.

Thank you.

1. Grenoble:

Year program was founded 1995
Business school accreditation:
AACSB
AMBA
EQUIS
Conference des Grandes Ecoles and the Chapitre des Ecoles de Management

Enrollment
Total graduate business students 2,000
Full-time MBA students 30
Part-time MBA students 96

2. E.M. Lyon

Year program was founded 1972
Institution is private
Business school accreditation:
AMBA
EQUIS

Enrollment
Total graduate business students 2,053
Full-time MBA students 54
Executive MBA students 35

--- Data from businessweek ---

Hello Saka,

Why do you favour French speaking Europe? Do you speak French? Would you want to study in French or English?

Jamie -

Thanks for your input.

I speak limited French and I do have a desire to improve my French. Which was the reason why I was thinking of the area. I have been in English speaking part of the world (US) for a while and wanted to try other regions. As I know a bit of French already, the logical choice for me was France and the French speaking part of Switzerland. My desire is to be in the region and work for about 10 years. After which may be move somewhere else, perhaps South America :-).

I agree with you, St. Gallen and IMB are top notch. The cost of the programs at these two universities is too much for me. I am looking at programs that are at the most EUR 25000. I am learning German currently. Hence SBS, which is in the German speaking area of Swtizerland, would work too.

What I am still unable to figure are:
1. What are the options to work while studying - part time job, full time job, off campus job, etc.?
2. Can I get a student visa if I want to study only part time, as I want to find a full time job?

Once again thanks for the information you provided.

Good luck.
Saka.

Hi Saka,

I've been looking at MBAs in the same area as well. I was really impressed with IMD and St. Gallen, but the price tag was pretty hefty. I had a look at a few other options inside Switzerland, but the only satisfactory one at a recognised institution was at the Universtiy of Geneva. From what I remember it was about 25,000 Euros.

As for the permit, I understood that a permit for an EU citizen was difficult if you are part-time, and impossible if you are non-EU. I think I read somewhere that by EU they also mean only the old EU 15 countries.

The MBAs I spoke to all gave a similar answer on part time work: If you are doing a full time MBA, part time work is possible, but the schedule is designed to put you under pressure for a year. If you work, your studies could suffer. Plus, my intention for an MBA is to spend as much time as possible with the careers service and building link with guest speakers etc. to get as well placed as possible for an internship/job.

There are some perks in IMD and St. Gallen in there loan programmes. Both seem to have agreements with local banks to provide loans of 60,000 Francs. IMD provide for a small number, and St. Gallen provide for the majority of the class.

The admissions office in St. Gallen also told me that they offer free language classes in a few different european languages as part of the course... - still, no point going to the German end to learn French though!!!

Jamie -

About University of Geneva, I remember reading that they have limited specializations. And all geared towards the non profit sector. Which was the reason I didn't put that on my list.

About the permit, I was almost sure about what you said. And now you confirmed it. I was also under the impression that one needs to be enrolled in a full time program to get a student visa.

It is the same here in the US as well, enrollment in a full time program is required for student visa. Along with that, one should maintain a GPA of at least 3.0 and not have more than 3 grades C or below. On top of this, work is permitted only on campus.

But I will need the part time job as that will pay my bills. I have savings but just enough to cover the tution and some unplanned expenses. For rent and everything else, I was thinking that my part time work will address it. Having done that, pursuing an MS full time and working part time at the same time here in US, I might be able to manage it again.

I prefer not to take any loans at all. It is my last option. Though IMD and St. Gallen might be worth the money, I think I will stay away from them. Also learning a second language is mandatory for most colleges. The program will be in English but you need to sign up for a foreign language anyway. That was what I heard in an MBA open house.

It is an excellent idea to work with the career services for placements after graduation. I don't know how easy it is get a work visa in the country.

We will see how it works out.

Thanks for your information, it was really helpful.
Saka.