Hi all. I have an admit from EBS Business school, germany and UCD Smurfit, Ireland for MSc Finance. Please suggest me which is better as I am an international student. I got a lot of positive reviews about UCD Smurfit and heard that EBS has lost its only accreditation of EQUIS. I am learning german also. Please suggest me which one to go for? Thank you.

Assuming that you don't speak German to a professional level, then UCD or a better school is the obvious choice.

Hi all. I have an admit from EBS Business school, germany and UCD Smurfit, Ireland for MSc Finance. Please suggest me which is better as I am an international student. I got a lot of positive reviews about UCD Smurfit and heard that EBS has lost its only accreditation of EQUIS. I am learning german also. Please suggest me which one to go for? Thank you.

[Edited by Thesouthpaw on Jun 05, 2016]

Thank you for answering my queries. But can you give me a clear picture of the job opportunities in finance for international students in germany. How good is the EBS brand there. I saw a lot of linkedin profiles of EBS bachelors students and all have got good jobs now. But the masters students data is pretty vague. Please help me. Also please tell me how good is UCD Smurfit brand in terms of securing a job and faculty wise also.

Assuming that you don't speak German to a professional level, then UCD or a better school is the obvious choice.

[Edited by Wharton Stern on Jun 05, 2016]

Assuming that you don't speak German to a professional level, then UCD or a better school is the obvious choice.

How do you think it possible to get from A2 to C2 while taking a masters in finance taught in English to a cohort of international students?

Search the board for students' comments on EBS. Hopeless placement. Ask the schools for placement data for international students.

Summary data for UCD and Frankfurt (the top German school, which thesouthpaw recommended) are in the FT ranking: http://rankings.ft.com/businessschoolrankings/masters-in-finance-pre-experience-2015

For the language question: Do you need to speak the local language? www.find-mba.com/board/34713 Even if you speak Dutch or a Scandinavia language, or a German spouse this would be unusual and notable and you would perhaps be above A2 already.

PS Also see http://find-mba.com/board/europe/ebs-germany-master-in-finance-47366 and Onur's comment about how German language skills are more important than your degree: http://find-mba.com/board/general-forum/ebs-germany-2015-intake-41930

[Edited by Duncan on Jun 05, 2016]

How do you think it possible to get from A2 to C2 while taking a masters in finance taught in English to a cohort of international students?

Search the board for students' comments on EBS. Hopeless placement. Ask the schools for placement data for international students.

Thank you duncan for the links. Just saw them now. But could you tell me which school is better among UCD==EBS===NYENRODE. I even got an admit from Nyenrode. Also for further clarity could you please elaborate a bit more on why not EBS. Because I talked to a couple of people from my country studying there and they were pretty positive about jobs and faculty even though they did not substantiate much. thank you.

You can search for and curate content as easily as I can so, unless you want to hire me to do that (see my profile page), I will trust you to find other opinions. Having studied in Germany, at the HHL and LMU, I would assume that most international students would not move up more than one or level levels on the CERF while taking a course in English that did not include intensive language classes (which is the offer at EBS). EBS produces good outcomes for German students: However, international students posting here explain very different outcomes. Of course, if you are able to speak to graduates from the programme you will get better insight: perhaps identify some from LinkedIn?

Looking on LinkedIn, it seems that the majority of students might be international (https://www.linkedin.com/vsearch/p?keywords=msc%20finance&school=European%20Business%20School&openAdvancedForm=true&locationType=Y&f_G=de%3A0&f_ED=11743&rsid=2007051465123108405&orig=MDYS) but almost all of the graduates working in Germany are Germans. That suggests that the outcomes are different. Specifically at EBS, I note that the CFA recognises its BA but not the MSc.

And, indeed, how could be it otherwise? If you don't speak the language....

Nyenrode is a rather similar school to EBS: a posh private school in a country with excellent state universities, aimed at networking the children of the domestic elite. Again, if you don't speak Dutch what can you reasonably expect?

If you are coming from outside Europe, I recomment you focus on schools that are both in the CFA programme (https://www.cfainstitute.org/community/university/Pages/cfa_program_university_partners.aspx), since those will be rigourous, and in the FT ranking, since those will have good outcomes.

[Edited by Duncan on Jun 05, 2016]

ok......so how is UCD Smurfit in terms of the brand name and the faculty. Also the job scenario for international students. Please give your insights.

The FT European rankings (http://rankings.ft.com/businessschoolrankings/european-business-school-rankings-2015) give data you need on the standing of the school broadly. It has been ranked in the top 40 since that ranking began, on a par with WHU and HHL. EBS does not get in that ranking regularly but is currently 51st. The MiF ranking shows you the outcomes and the school can tell you more.

PS Regarding faculty, the academics I have met from UCD are quite on the same level as other similar European schools, but what makes UCD different is that's the county's top business school so that give it a very different standing.

[Edited by Duncan on Jun 05, 2016]

Just to be clear: I don't think there's any point starting an MiF in a country where you don't already speak the language. You won't get to fluency during the MiF. If you want to move to Germany, learn German, get the DSH, study an MSc in finance taught mostly in German (at somewhere like Tübingen, Göttingen, the Freie Universität Berlin, or the Augsburg/TU Munich programme) so you also have all the functional vocabulary and get to work with Germans (as opposed to the students from many Asian countries who will be in an English-language programme).

How do you think it possible to get from A2 to C2 while taking a masters in finance taught in English to a cohort of international students?

Search the board for students' comments on EBS. Hopeless placement. Ask the schools for placement data for international students.

EBS isn't bad at all. EBS, of course, has German accreditation but it lacks international accreditation. 
However, the key obstacle is language skills rather than accreditation. There are very few roles for students who don't speak the local language. In an intensive degree taught in English, on a campus running mostly in English and with classmates who don't speak the local language, you will not develop local language skills at the professional level.  
Grenoble is a good choice if you are at the Grenoble campus and speak and write French before arriving: https://find-mba.com/board/general-forum/best-msc-mim-degrees-for-international-students-placement-52915 Grenoble has great links in south-east France, but those are also limited for people who don't speak French. However, it does better because more foreigners speak French than speak German. However, its franchise degrees in Berlin, Tbilisi and Moscow have weak partners with modest resources and no real network.

I'm not sure what your goals are. but you will either need to speak and write excellent German or attend a top school (ESMT, Harvard, Insead, Mannheim, WHU) which have the best links to corporates that don't need high levels of German for some of their MBA-level roles.
Most state universities in mainland Europe are linked to language schools that will inexpensively develop the language skills of students so they can study in the local language. For example, I studied at ICLF in Lyon and DKFA in Munich. Perhaps a programme like that followed by a degree taught in German or French at a state university will be more economical and effective?

I wonder if you are looking at EBS and Grenoble because they pay educational consultants to recommend them? Please focus on your interests, rather than the consultants'.

PS Just to clarify; EBS isn't bad *educationally* but it is - and most other schools on mainland Europe are - not the best choice for students who do not write and speak the local language to a high professional standard before starting their MSc yet hope to get local placement. Just imagine: what role would a German get in your country who did not speak the local business language?
PPS Of course that is not just about language skills but cross-cultural skills and acculturation. Personally, I felt there's a big different between international students at my university in France (who were really entranced by French culture and wanted to become part of it) and those in Germany (who were often attracted to Germany simply for professional reasons, and showed no special interest in Germany or Germans).

[Edited by Duncan on May 25, 2020]

I wonder if you are looking at EBS and Grenoble because they pay educational consultants to recommend them? Please focus on your interests, rather than the consultants'.

I have not heard about this school before, thanks for sharing