Advice for which schools to apply to - 2 yrs work experience


Hi there,
I am a Canadian who is looking to internationalize a career, and I figure doing a Masters in Europe would be a good place to pivot. Here is a quick summary of me:

Graduated Industrial Engineering, GPA of just under 3.4
720 on GMAT (strong verbal, ok quant)
Strong extracurriulars in school
Fluent in English, French, Polish; Starting to learn Spanish
I have 14 months of full-time consulting experience but it was not post-university, it was between 3rd and 4th year; I will have another 12 months of full-time consulting work by next Jan when I will apply

The amount of work experience I will have worries me, but I am pretty set on going next September. I'm also looking to become fluent in Spanish so ideally would like to go to a school in Spain or a school that offers internships abroad. I would of course like this to lead to good work opportunities.

Also, what do people think think of PGSM? I find it odd that it is so cheap, does not require much work experience, and has such low admission requirements.

Finally, I have also come across the Master (of Arts) in Strategy and International Management in Switzerland, and Masters of Management programs throughout. Can anyone provide any insight as to what sorts of opportunities these lead to?

Thanks,
Natalia
Hi there,
I am a Canadian who is looking to internationalize a career, and I figure doing a Masters in Europe would be a good place to pivot. Here is a quick summary of me:

Graduated Industrial Engineering, GPA of just under 3.4
720 on GMAT (strong verbal, ok quant)
Strong extracurriulars in school
Fluent in English, French, Polish; Starting to learn Spanish
I have 14 months of full-time consulting experience but it was not post-university, it was between 3rd and 4th year; I will have another 12 months of full-time consulting work by next Jan when I will apply

The amount of work experience I will have worries me, but I am pretty set on going next September. I'm also looking to become fluent in Spanish so ideally would like to go to a school in Spain or a school that offers internships abroad. I would of course like this to lead to good work opportunities.

Also, what do people think think of PGSM? I find it odd that it is so cheap, does not require much work experience, and has such low admission requirements.

Finally, I have also come across the Master (of Arts) in Strategy and International Management in Switzerland, and Masters of Management programs throughout. Can anyone provide any insight as to what sorts of opportunities these lead to?

Thanks,
Natalia
quote
Evan2007
With that strong GMAT and GPA you should get a good look from most MBA programs. Two years work experience isn't a dealbreaker like NO work experience is.

MiM programs are for younger students - some straight outta undergrad. They are generally cheaper but I don't think the job prospects are as senior afterward.

Here is a pretty starightforward breakdown of the differences with an MBA program:

http://blog.find-mba.com/2010/06/12/master_in_management_or_mba_graf_interview/

What schools in Spain are you interested in?
With that strong GMAT and GPA you should get a good look from most MBA programs. Two years work experience isn't a dealbreaker like NO work experience is.

MiM programs are for younger students - some straight outta undergrad. They are generally cheaper but I don't think the job prospects are as senior afterward.

Here is a pretty starightforward breakdown of the differences with an MBA program:

http://blog.find-mba.com/2010/06/12/master_in_management_or_mba_graf_interview/

What schools in Spain are you interested in?
quote
Thanks for your response, Evan. I'm interested in the top schools, IE, ESADE, and IESE. I'm also interested in ESCP, which would also consist of a term in France.

The other thing about me is that I also had real work experience that took place during my summers, and also part time contract opportunities throughout university. I'm not sure how those are viewed by MBA admissions.... any insights?

I feel like I could be in between the MIM and MBA now. I should at least wait until I have the full solid two years before applying though, correct? Perhaps September 2012 could make more sense.

Thanks for the encouragement!
Thanks for your response, Evan. I'm interested in the top schools, IE, ESADE, and IESE. I'm also interested in ESCP, which would also consist of a term in France.

The other thing about me is that I also had real work experience that took place during my summers, and also part time contract opportunities throughout university. I'm not sure how those are viewed by MBA admissions.... any insights?

I feel like I could be in between the MIM and MBA now. I should at least wait until I have the full solid two years before applying though, correct? Perhaps September 2012 could make more sense.

Thanks for the encouragement!
quote
Duncan
If you can wait until you have three years then you will get much more from the MBA because you'll get into a much better school. But do the MBA; you will take a step back with a MiM unless you do the LBS MM, which is a cut above.
If you can wait until you have three years then you will get much more from the MBA because you'll get into a much better school. But do the MBA; you will take a step back with a MiM unless you do the LBS MM, which is a cut above.
quote
Why do you think the MIM would be step back?
What about the MIM at IE?
Why do you think the MIM would be step back?
What about the MIM at IE?
quote
Duncan
Well these are pre-experience programmes for people with no work experience, who are coming straight from their undergrad courses. You have enough work experience to get into an MBA, which would get you into a second-job sort of role while and MM is aimed at a first-job sort of role (at IE, for example, average salaries are 37K euro for the 88% who find work within 3 months -- one third of typical MBA salaries). You'd have different careers advisors and met different recruiters from the MBA.

Look at places like Politecnico di Milano, Bradford, EADA, Leeds, Lyon and Birmingham. A second tier MBA is worth more than a top tier MM.
Well these are pre-experience programmes for people with no work experience, who are coming straight from their undergrad courses. You have enough work experience to get into an MBA, which would get you into a second-job sort of role while and MM is aimed at a first-job sort of role (at IE, for example, average salaries are 37K euro for the 88% who find work within 3 months -- one third of typical MBA salaries). You'd have different careers advisors and met different recruiters from the MBA.

Look at places like Politecnico di Milano, Bradford, EADA, Leeds, Lyon and Birmingham. A second tier MBA is worth more than a top tier MM.
quote
Duncan
PS if you are female then I think Lyon, Leeds and Bradford may be very interested in you, and perhaps also Hult, Manchester, Strathclyde and HEC will be worth talking to.
PS if you are female then I think Lyon, Leeds and Bradford may be very interested in you, and perhaps also Hult, Manchester, Strathclyde and HEC will be worth talking to.
quote
Where did you get those MIM salary stats?
Some of those schools, e.g. EADA, require minimum 3 years work experience -- do you think it's worth asking their admissions directly?
Is that true, that a 2nd tier MBA is still more valuable than a top tier MIM?
Where did you get those MIM salary stats?
Some of those schools, e.g. EADA, require minimum 3 years work experience -- do you think it's worth asking their admissions directly?
Is that true, that a 2nd tier MBA is still more valuable than a top tier MIM?
quote
Duncan
Compare the salaries at http://rankings.ft.com/businessschoolrankings/global-mba-rankings-2011 even the number 90 or 100 MBA is paid more than double the MM salaries.

You can see the placement report linked at the bottom of http://www.master-international.ie.edu/

I'd just wait a year and apply later. Maybe just move to Europe and spend the year learning a language and teaching English. The MBA salary will more than make up for the one year of MM wages.
Compare the salaries at http://rankings.ft.com/businessschoolrankings/global-mba-rankings-2011 even the number 90 or 100 MBA is paid more than double the MM salaries.

You can see the placement report linked at the bottom of http://www.master-international.ie.edu/

I'd just wait a year and apply later. Maybe just move to Europe and spend the year learning a language and teaching English. The MBA salary will more than make up for the one year of MM wages.
quote
Duncan
PS No age limit at MIlan: http://www.mip.polimi.it/MBA/FULL_TIME/MBA_Full_Time_Admission_-_MBA_Full_Time_-_MIP_Politecnico_di_Milano.aspx
PS No age limit at MIlan: http://www.mip.polimi.it/MBA/FULL_TIME/MBA_Full_Time_Admission_-_MBA_Full_Time_-_MIP_Politecnico_di_Milano.aspx
quote
Does one year teaching English still count as work experience?
Does one year teaching English still count as work experience?
quote
Duncan
If you're paid, yes. It sounds like you're keen to leave Canada, and teaching English is pretty easy for Canadians. Of course it could be better to find something more commercial in Canada for that year but I think it will be unusual and develop some skills. But given the choice between an MBA and an MM, then the MBA is much better understood and will give you a muh stronger lift.
If you're paid, yes. It sounds like you're keen to leave Canada, and teaching English is pretty easy for Canadians. Of course it could be better to find something more commercial in Canada for that year but I think it will be unusual and develop some skills. But given the choice between an MBA and an MM, then the MBA is much better understood and will give you a muh stronger lift.
quote
Duncan
A few other thoughts...
- I guess your firm has operations in Europe. Either explain your MBA plan to them or say you want to develop your foreign languages. Ask them to send you to Europe.
- Not many internationally-oriented Canadian women with stellar GMATs apply to second and third tier schools. Schools that are short on diversity in the class will give you some flexibility.
- For me, the only MM that stands out is the one at LBS. I am biased, since I studied there, but the other MM schools either serve their domestic market (not so available for you, unless you're Quebecois and attend HEC) or they still achieve salaries far below the MBA.
- You can find a link on my profile page from which you can email me. You sound smart enough to figure all this out but feel free to drop me a line if you want to go into detail. Us Commonwealthers should help each other out ;-)
A few other thoughts...
- I guess your firm has operations in Europe. Either explain your MBA plan to them or say you want to develop your foreign languages. Ask them to send you to Europe.
- Not many internationally-oriented Canadian women with stellar GMATs apply to second and third tier schools. Schools that are short on diversity in the class will give you some flexibility.
- For me, the only MM that stands out is the one at LBS. I am biased, since I studied there, but the other MM schools either serve their domestic market (not so available for you, unless you're Quebecois and attend HEC) or they still achieve salaries far below the MBA.
- You can find a link on my profile page from which you can email me. You sound smart enough to figure all this out but feel free to drop me a line if you want to go into detail. Us Commonwealthers should help each other out ;-)
quote
Thanks Duncan...I'll drop you a line....advice is always much appreciated. =)
Thanks Duncan...I'll drop you a line....advice is always much appreciated. =)
quote
exec
Does one year teaching English still count as work experience?


Most business schools ask for professional experiences (usually related to your degree). Teaching English doesn't seem to me as a professional experience unless you were studying to become a teacher.
<blockquote>Does one year teaching English still count as work experience?</blockquote>

Most business schools ask for professional experiences (usually related to your degree). Teaching English doesn't seem to me as a professional experience unless you were studying to become a teacher.
quote
bianca
Hi there,
I am a Canadian who is looking to internationalize a career, and I figure doing a Masters in Europe would be a good place to pivot.
Hi,

Since you speak French and are still young (I suppose you're under 27), check the FT page on Masters in Management: http://rankings.ft.com/businessschoolrankings/masters-in-management

While ESCP Europe is the new #1, HEC and CEMS have been on top for many years before that.
Since CEMS is a joint program of many European schools, including HEC, I'd sugest you have a look at the CEMS program at HEC, which is an option of their Master in International Business, a grande ecole program.
Check there: http://www.hec.edu/MSc/Programs/MSc-in-International-Business/Admissions

Do this first, then maybe an MBA later. Given your short experience, you won't be able to get a fantastic MBA while the HEC Grande Ecole program is truly great with a fantastic alumni network and no equivalent in France and very few in Europe.
You'll have no problem finding a job at all the big names in France or Europe afterwards, and it will put you in line for the HSWs of this world if you want to do an MBA later.
<blockquote>Hi there,
I am a Canadian who is looking to internationalize a career, and I figure doing a Masters in Europe would be a good place to pivot.</blockquote>Hi,

Since you speak French and are still young (I suppose you're under 27), check the FT page on Masters in Management: http://rankings.ft.com/businessschoolrankings/masters-in-management

While ESCP Europe is the new #1, HEC and CEMS have been on top for many years before that.
Since CEMS is a joint program of many European schools, including HEC, I'd sugest you have a look at the CEMS program at HEC, which is an option of their Master in International Business, a grande ecole program.
Check there: http://www.hec.edu/MSc/Programs/MSc-in-International-Business/Admissions

Do this first, then maybe an MBA later. Given your short experience, you won't be able to get a fantastic MBA while the HEC Grande Ecole program is truly great with a fantastic alumni network and no equivalent in France and very few in Europe.
You'll have no problem finding a job at all the big names in France or Europe afterwards, and it will put you in line for the HSWs of this world if you want to do an MBA later.
quote

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