Hello Duncan / Ezra others,


I need little help in shortlisting of Business schools for my MBA.

My profile
WE: I will have 6 years of work ex by June 2013 with 2 months in Eastern Europe. I currently work as a Technical consultant in a Finnish - German telecommunications vendor giant. Have good experience leading team for project implementation - Mobile network deployment.

Key words
Team Lead. Subject Matter Expert. Single Point of Contact.

Undergrad
Taught soft skills to junior in undergrad, member of placement cell.

GMAT
600, 610,630,630 (Sept 2012), not giving again.

Additional info
Orange belt in Lean Six sigma, will try for black in April 2013. Learning French, giving DELF A1 in March 2013. Plan to get PMP by Aug 2013.

Post MBA: Wishing to work in Operations / Service Management sector.

During MBA: need a solid General Management program, with focus on Operations & finance, lots of experiential component and if possible few international trips / exchange.

My shortlist & status so far:
College of William & Mary, VA: (reapplicant) Interview next week
Sauder - UBC, Canada: applied
HEC Montreal, Canada: in process
McGill, Canada: applied
Queen's Canada: Thinking
John Molson: Thinking
ESSEC: Thinking

Prior to 2012
Schulich India: Admit but didn't join
SP Jain 1 year PGPM - Mumbai: Admit and deferred
Copenhagen Business School: Admit but didn't join

Please suggest some schools (keeping in mind my GMAT score of 630) with good focus in Operations / General Management having experiential component and diverse students.

I am open for US/France/Canada/EU

Budget: Not a problem for international brand, but for localized experience it has to be less than 55K ~ 60k USD in total.

I thought of applying to the likes of Ross, NUS, Ohio - Fisher, CMU Tepper, Purdue, Smeal, HEC Paris but I just ain't competitive for them.

Moore - SC, Thunderbird - AZ, SDA Boconni - Italy, Rutgers - NJ, Rotman - Canada, ESSEC - France also crossed my mind, but to me it seemed that these programs costed more for the experience/career they offer.

Do help
Ayon

I think you need to focus a little more on geographies. I think the Indian schools you have looked at are great, but you're a little old for them. I guess from your name that your family might be from the subcontinent, in which case that's interesting.

I think a two year programme will meet your needs better, and especially a US one. That said, I think you should also look at the Iowa MBA in Italy and the Purdue programme in Germany. They are great value and I think their approach wil fit you.

Your main focus could be on the US, Yes, Rutgers is a good choice. I don't understand why you've ruled out Smeal. I think you could certainly get into the Purdue programme at GISMA, and perhaps in the main campus as well.

I'd suggest you look at:
Emory University (Goizueta) (GA)
Michigan State University (Broad) (MI)
Purdue University--West Lafayette (Krannert) (IN)
Pennsylvania State University--University Park (Smeal)
University of Illinois--Urbana-Champaign (IL) *
Rutgers, the State University of New Jersey--New Brunswick and Newark (NJ)
Iowa State University (IA) *
University of California--Irvine (Merage) (CA)
University of Arkansas--Fayetteville (Walton) (AR)*
North Carolina State University (Jenkins)

PS I've but a * after the schools where the balance between affordability and selectivity is especially favourable for you.

Hello Duncan,

Many thanks for your response. I am an Indian with a 630 GMAT score. I applied to SMU Cox (reapplicant) with my 630 GMAT since their average GMAT was 640. I met their associate director of admissions in New Delhi, for face-to-face interview. She told me that my essays were good, and she was actually surprised that there were no problem with my spoken English and communication skills. After the interview,she told me that as per her, my interview was good.

However, I was rejected. I got to know that from her that even though SMU Cox's average GMAT is 640, for Indian students it's 695. They happily admitted students with lesser work experience (even 2/3 years IT) and gave them scholarship.

I am also told that few colleges are given a target to break into top 40 rankings on next year. And the admission's team follow their target and thus design a class accordingly.

I also communicated with Director of Purdue who held an earlier post in BYU admissions team, He very frankly told me that from Indian students their expectation are to get higher GMAT scores.

Purdue, UIUC, Smeal, ASU, MSU Broad etc are undoubtedly of great value but I won't be competitive according to their preferences.

Rutgers is good have it's strength in SCM & Healthcare, but they have a policy of not giving any scholarship/assistance to international students, and at $ 38,000 a year I think it costs more than it's worth. I mean recession has caused a drop in applicants and several schools are unable to fill in their quota of international students. Many schools are giving discounts / waivers to attract international students but unfortunately Rutgers has no such scheme.

Iowa & Arkansas are good regional schools but the average age of students (& their work ex) is less. I don't think I will get to learn much from my classmates.

I like the idea of applying to UC Irvine, I meet Elisa Lee in QS World MBA tour. I have dropped her an email, if she encourages then I'll apply.

Merci, beaucoup pour votre responsez et aide. Je suis etudiant franciase. I am learning French as I thought that Montreal based colleges provide more bang for buck. Since I have already started with French, GISMA - Purdue won't be a fit. What's your opinion on ESSEC Global MBA?

Additionally your opinion on Canadian MBAs? - HEC Montreal, John Molson, McGill, Sauder and Queens ?

I thought of Manchester MBA because I simply loved their curriculum, but thanks to UK government I won't be applying to anywhere near UK.

Thanks a lot !
Ayon

Yes, I think you can expect Indian students to have to put on a 30 to 50 point premium over the average.

GISMA is only 300 miles from France, and it awards Purdue MBAs which are portable around the whole world. Don't rule it out, and remember that the German economy has been doing pretty well comrades to the French one.

The ESSEC programme is very strong now, of course it's still new but it has a good reputation. I'd imagine they will want a high GMAT.

Those Canadian schools are all okay. Salaries are a bit lower in Canada, but it's more open to international talent.

PS I think you might mean "J'étudie la langue française.".

PPS Some easier US options:
Florida State
Miami University (Farmer) (OH)
University of Kansas (KS)
University of Utah (Eccles) (UT)
James Madison University (VA)
Howard University (DC)
Oklahoma State University (Spears)
Ohio University Texas
A&M International University (TX)
University of Mississippi (MS)

Purdue University--West Lafayette (Krannert) (IN)

At their campus in Germany, the average is 630: http://www.mba-exchange.com/mba-recruiter-guide/GISMA-Business-School-115 and there students can get the Krannert MBA in one year, instead of two, as well as the Hannover university MBA.

hi,
I have shortlisted a few universities, but out of these do not know which is good for MBA, could you just help me with selecting the university like in which should i apply. the list of universities is:
Depaul University.
Sanfransisco State University.
University of Massachusetts.
California State University, long beach
California State University, East Bay.
Rochester university of Technology.
Illinois Institute of Technology.
New York Institute of Technology.
University of New Haven.
University of South Florida.
Southern New Hampshire University.
Bridgeport University Connecticut.
St Johns University, New York.

THANKYOU.

I've ranked the more serious ones from better to worse below. There is a clear top tier:
University of Massachusetts--Amherst (Isenberg) (MA)
Rochester Institute of Technology (Saunders) (NY)
DePaul University (Kellstadt) (IL)
San Francisco State University (CA)
St. John's University (Tobin) (NY)
And a clear middle group:-
University of South Florida (FL)
California State University--Long Beach (CA)
Illinois Institute of Technology (Stuart) (IL)
California State University--East Bay (CA)
SUNY Institute of Technology--Utica/Rome (NY)

I would not pay too much attention to the others.

Admission is pretty easy at Illinois.

Thanx a lot... Could you suggest me a few more universities in similar to the above posted colleges??

What are you looking for? I don't really see what the colleges you are looking at have in common.

Ayon - Have you considered University of Pittsburgh (Katz). A more affordable fee structure, 2-year program, and what seems to be a good program in Operations.

How is Katz more affordable? Its fees are higher than almost all the schools listed above.

How is Katz more affordable? Its fees are higher than almost all the schools listed above.

Katz's fees are higher than all but two of the schools listed above. I think the other person might be looking for an inexpensive programme.

Katz' frees are higher than all but two of the schools listed above. I think the other person might be looking for an inexpensive programme.

Hello Westsidah408,

Many thanks for your advice! I did looked at Katz closely, in fact I had applied there in 2009. One of my friends in currently in 2nd year in Katz.

While no doubt that Katz does provide good education, and their average GMAT is 608 as mentioned on their website, but of late I know of many Indian candidates getting rejected. These candidates posses statistically higher GMAT score, than Katz average as well as higher than mine.

I have applied to another program in USA, which provide similar (or better if you ask me ! ) educational experience and is perhaps a little bit more reputed in the eyes of alumni, recruiters and people in general.

Katz is a good option for Operations and their tuition fees is also low $ 56000 for the total program. Katz also provide the opportunity to earn Six Sigma, certificate in SCM and Katz Consulting etc.

But it wasn't a "fit" for me. Not to mention that at this time of application (Feb) it has become very competitive for me, when so so called "Indian Quota" might be close to full!

BR
Ayon

Hello Mr. Duncan,
I hope you are doing well.
I am Aditya from India.
I have some confusion regarding opting my course. i have 3 years experience in projects of Nokia Siemens Networks as BSS Engineer.its a core telecom company.experience includes 2 years of overseas experience.i was in projects in Kenya and Uganda.
Now i want to do my post graduation from the UK.
So i can pursue MSc in Telecommunication or Computer networking(Which is my field since last 3 years) or go for MBA.
So please enlighten me which course will be beneficial for me in terms of quick employment, Chance to work in the UK,Fees and funding.
I am counting on University of Leicester for MSc. please let me know if it is a good option or not.because they are claiming they will provide work placement after the course....

Please reply.
Aditya

My feeling is that you're more likely to find work as a telecoms engineer than as an MBA. But I don;t know much about that. Look at the UK university rankings:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/series/university-guide-2013-subjects
http://www.university-list.net/uk/rank/univ-0000.htm
http://www.thecompleteuniversityguide.co.uk/league-tables/rankings/

Hello Mr. Duncan,

Below is the current status of my applications

1) Admit from ESSEC Global MBA, France with Euro 33,000 loan of honor. (will need to return them 2 year after graduation)

2) Admit from College of William & Mary, VA - USA with some scholarship.

3) Interviewed with HEC Montreal, expecting a favorable result.

4) Submitted at John Molson Concordia, expecting a favorable result.

I like W&M's curriculum and weather, but even after scholarship it's coming out to be costly.

On the other hand, ESSEC is (I believe) a more reputed school within it's country i.e. France. But the catch with loan of honor is that, if by any chance, I am unable to find a job in Europe, I will be in no position to repay 33000 euro in 2 years, from any job that I may land in India!

HEC Montreal, provide the loudest bang for the buck whereas JMSB, has the provision of 3 year work permit and Co-Op that will help me earn and reduce the costs.

I am humbly asking you to help me contrast amongst, Apples, Oranges, Lemons and Pineapples.

BR
Ayon

hello,

If you read my previous postings, I am not an MBA admissions consultant and does not have MBA yet. I however have worked for a while in Europe as well as having a couple of degrees there.

Thanks to the network that I tapped into, I can share with you my understanding. I have to say that after reading my posting you may be even more confused because there is no right or wrong answer but rest assure that you will make a decision that is more informed. That is what myself or Duncan is trying to do.

1/ W&M is a very respectable college in general. The MBA is less so. The education I believe is solid and they do have some interesting features in the program. However, it is not very much engineering-gauged. Most students wont have anything to do with IT or Engineering or Telcom which make you options limited to the industry.

2/ ESSEC is a top French school but like other French things they are little known outside its border and has with itself a prestige that appeals to a very specific group. Others may see it very differently.

With the MBA you can spend sometimes in its Singapore campus. Singapore is very open and is the Asia Pacific hub for banking and tech so your chance to find a job there is pretty good. ESSEC is seen as a solid school in Singapore.
To work in Europe and not speaking the language, just forget about it mate.

3/ HEC Montreal is cheap and quick. It also has some tech concentration but to me the courses look rather shallow to us who has built our entire career in IT. We may be hired to be TAs in one of those courses.

4/ JMSB if I am not mistaken has some sweet CFA training which is geared towards finance concentration. In Canada the finance industry is not too hard to break in like in Wall St. So you can manage a chance if you work hard.

Also is JMSB a school that only accepts fresh graduates?

The co-op will be good and the 3 year visa is spot-on.

I think you have to limit yourself to 2 or 3 schools. and stick to it there is unlimited things we can try but only one thing we can pursue so do think about it and go after your decision