Which country?


Speaking from my own personal experience, i have to say that i was surprised by South Korea. The course where I studied, Yonsei, was well organized and the size of the international student body much bigger than i had first thought. yes, these other countries maybe richer, but nowhere, except China, has not only the record for growth but also the potential. I do not regret studying there and would not hesitate to recommend others to do so.

Speaking from my own personal experience, i have to say that i was surprised by South Korea. The course where I studied, Yonsei, was well organized and the size of the international student body much bigger than i had first thought. yes, these other countries maybe richer, but nowhere, except China, has not only the record for growth but also the potential. I do not regret studying there and would not hesitate to recommend others to do so.
quote
fishball

So what do you do now since you're finished studying? What industry/role are in?

So what do you do now since you're finished studying? What industry/role are in?

quote
hehe5

In response to some of the comments related to Korea's nationalism and its job opportunities related to foreigners, in actuality, the number of foreigners employed in Korea has seen a significant increase. While, Korea has faced its share of problems with nationalism and the and has its fair share of "uniqueness", there also has been quite a large number of change in the past few years.

The country's government itself has stood forward in formulating measures to make the country more foreigner-friendly, in which it has seen a strong effect. Areas within Seoul have grown well-suited to the expats in Korea that some end up never leaving the country.

In terms of job opportunities, many say that the availabilities are more focused towards the local citizens in Korea, however, given that unemployment is rising in all countries, wouldn't that be the initial focus of all countries? However, the multinational and Korean companies are always in search of foreigners. Particularly, since a large number of them are seeking globalization.

Hope this clarifies a few misconceptions about Korea

In response to some of the comments related to Korea's nationalism and its job opportunities related to foreigners, in actuality, the number of foreigners employed in Korea has seen a significant increase. While, Korea has faced its share of problems with nationalism and the and has its fair share of "uniqueness", there also has been quite a large number of change in the past few years.

The country's government itself has stood forward in formulating measures to make the country more foreigner-friendly, in which it has seen a strong effect. Areas within Seoul have grown well-suited to the expats in Korea that some end up never leaving the country.

In terms of job opportunities, many say that the availabilities are more focused towards the local citizens in Korea, however, given that unemployment is rising in all countries, wouldn't that be the initial focus of all countries? However, the multinational and Korean companies are always in search of foreigners. Particularly, since a large number of them are seeking globalization.

Hope this clarifies a few misconceptions about Korea
quote
Lost4Now

I hear Korea is trying to become more foreigner friendly as well, but I'm not convinced that this will directly ease job searching opportunities. I just recently read an article about how there are now 1 million non-Koreans in Korea. You would think this means amazing opportunities right? Afterall, with such a high number of ex-pats, Korea is more accepting of foreigners! I read further into the article, most non-Koreans currently in Korea are not highly skilled workers (such as MBA candidates) but are instead women from China, Philippines etc... that marry Korean men and are now living in Korea and take up low-wage jobs. The high number does not reflect Korea's higher acceptance of skilled workers from abroad (managers etc...) but instead is a result of a current trend of Korean men marrying foreign women.

Data on blue-collar work does not directly correlate to access to white-collar work for foreigners. I know the government has been doing things like making signs in english and trying to make street maps more logical to make it easier on foreigners though. That much is at least true.

Furthermore, job opportunities being more available to local Koreans has been a reality even BEFORE the current economic crisis kicked in. When things get better, will Korea simply go back to how they were? Which isn't great compared to other countries to begin with. Or will they suddenly surpass the way they were (which is comparatively worse than their peers) and become more accepting? It is true that right now other countries aren't so great either, but when they recover, they will go back to their pre-2007 levels, most likely, but Korea will also go back to their pre-2007 levels, which isn't foreign friendly. That is unless those street sign policies and mapping initiatives by the Seoul government makes a difference in how Samsung hires/promote executives.


I hear Korea is trying to become more foreigner friendly as well, but I'm not convinced that this will directly ease job searching opportunities. I just recently read an article about how there are now 1 million non-Koreans in Korea. You would think this means amazing opportunities right? Afterall, with such a high number of ex-pats, Korea is more accepting of foreigners! I read further into the article, most non-Koreans currently in Korea are not highly skilled workers (such as MBA candidates) but are instead women from China, Philippines etc... that marry Korean men and are now living in Korea and take up low-wage jobs. The high number does not reflect Korea's higher acceptance of skilled workers from abroad (managers etc...) but instead is a result of a current trend of Korean men marrying foreign women.

Data on blue-collar work does not directly correlate to access to white-collar work for foreigners. I know the government has been doing things like making signs in english and trying to make street maps more logical to make it easier on foreigners though. That much is at least true.

Furthermore, job opportunities being more available to local Koreans has been a reality even BEFORE the current economic crisis kicked in. When things get better, will Korea simply go back to how they were? Which isn't great compared to other countries to begin with. Or will they suddenly surpass the way they were (which is comparatively worse than their peers) and become more accepting? It is true that right now other countries aren't so great either, but when they recover, they will go back to their pre-2007 levels, most likely, but Korea will also go back to their pre-2007 levels, which isn't foreign friendly. That is unless those street sign policies and mapping initiatives by the Seoul government makes a difference in how Samsung hires/promote executives.

quote
Lost4Now

I just want to qualify by saying that my opinion is based on what I perceive as the current situation. If things are indeed changing fast in S. Korea, then I suspect my opinion could be out of date within the next decade. So i don't discredit the fact that things "may" change and become awesome later on, but I do discredit the idea that things "are" awesome for foreigners seeking top end jobs.


I just want to qualify by saying that my opinion is based on what I perceive as the current situation. If things are indeed changing fast in S. Korea, then I suspect my opinion could be out of date within the next decade. So i don't discredit the fact that things "may" change and become awesome later on, but I do discredit the idea that things "are" awesome for foreigners seeking top end jobs.
quote

I am currently working for a large international marketing company in Korea. As for the job market here in Korea, yes its not as strong as it has been, but then where is? Like anything, if you have the skills, education, etc you will find work. It is no more difficult to find work here than any other country.

I am currently working for a large international marketing company in Korea. As for the job market here in Korea, yes its not as strong as it has been, but then where is? Like anything, if you have the skills, education, etc you will find work. It is no more difficult to find work here than any other country.
quote
Clam

http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?t=69329

This forum seems to be pretty new, so there aren't any postings about Korean MBAs pre-recession. So I found a discussion amongst other groups starting in 2006, and much of what they said, even pre-recession, is that the job market in Korea is pretty bad. Whereas in other countries, such as Singapore, they were once good (ipre-recession)) and the market only got crappy after the recession kicked in (post-recession), Korea was bad to begin with (pre-recession), and only got worse afterwards (post-recession).

However, burnt-toast, I am wondering, as someone who is working in Korea, what is your background? To what extent do you think things are changing in Korea and are they rapid enough to actually matter for those looking to take their MBA within the next 5 years? I know YOU have a job in Korea, but what about everyone else? You state that if you are a superstar you would get a job like anywhere else, but what about average? Average pay reported for Korean MBAs seem to be 50k starting, is this the same for foreigners as well?

http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?t=69329

This forum seems to be pretty new, so there aren't any postings about Korean MBAs pre-recession. So I found a discussion amongst other groups starting in 2006, and much of what they said, even pre-recession, is that the job market in Korea is pretty bad. Whereas in other countries, such as Singapore, they were once good (ipre-recession)) and the market only got crappy after the recession kicked in (post-recession), Korea was bad to begin with (pre-recession), and only got worse afterwards (post-recession).

However, burnt-toast, I am wondering, as someone who is working in Korea, what is your background? To what extent do you think things are changing in Korea and are they rapid enough to actually matter for those looking to take their MBA within the next 5 years? I know YOU have a job in Korea, but what about everyone else? You state that if you are a superstar you would get a job like anywhere else, but what about average? Average pay reported for Korean MBAs seem to be 50k starting, is this the same for foreigners as well?
quote

My background is in media; newspapers, publishing, marketing, etc. I think things have changed in that there appear to be more varied career opportunities here than there where when I first arrived. For the next five years? Well who knows, the recent upheaval has set most markets back and it will be interesting to see how they, not just Korea, recover. What I can say is that Korea has a history of embracing change quickly, just look at how fast it has grown, and that this bodes well for the future. Of course there are other places with more opportunities, there always are, but I think that in the time Korea has had to grow, things have improved here greatly in terms of infrastructure, wages, and global outlook.

I didn?t realize that having skills, education, etc equated to being a superstar, nor am I sure what your definition of ?average? is, but using it, why would these ?average? people expect to get a job here any easier than anywhere else? If you know of or believe that there are other markets more accepting of ?average? people than perhaps you could lets us know which they are.

Not sure about the pay, not something I want to divulge or something I ask others. However, if I were to hazard a guess, I would highly doubt that foreign MBA?s get less than Korean MBA?s, and that if anything I would suggest that they perhaps get more due to their English language ability.

I was really only commenting on studying in Korea, but the conversation seems to have veered off to living in Korea. This is understandable, but I don?t believe the two are completely intertwined, I would be interested to see how many MBA students actually continue living and working in the foreign country they studied in, and in fact how many chose to study in that country simply because of the opportunities to work there than say over the strengths of the MBA course they are interested in.

As for the link, well, that site is notorious for its ill-feeling towards Korea and does not in anyway reflect how things are here in reality. While it may offer some entertainment it should in no way influence a decision as important as choosing which foreign country to study in.

Hope that?s answered your questions

Thanks

My background is in media; newspapers, publishing, marketing, etc. I think things have changed in that there appear to be more varied career opportunities here than there where when I first arrived. For the next five years? Well who knows, the recent upheaval has set most markets back and it will be interesting to see how they, not just Korea, recover. What I can say is that Korea has a history of embracing change quickly, just look at how fast it has grown, and that this bodes well for the future. Of course there are other places with more opportunities, there always are, but I think that in the time Korea has had to grow, things have improved here greatly in terms of infrastructure, wages, and global outlook.

I didn?t realize that having skills, education, etc equated to being a superstar, nor am I sure what your definition of ?average? is, but using it, why would these ?average? people expect to get a job here any easier than anywhere else? If you know of or believe that there are other markets more accepting of ?average? people than perhaps you could lets us know which they are.

Not sure about the pay, not something I want to divulge or something I ask others. However, if I were to hazard a guess, I would highly doubt that foreign MBA?s get less than Korean MBA?s, and that if anything I would suggest that they perhaps get more due to their English language ability.

I was really only commenting on studying in Korea, but the conversation seems to have veered off to living in Korea. This is understandable, but I don?t believe the two are completely intertwined, I would be interested to see how many MBA students actually continue living and working in the foreign country they studied in, and in fact how many chose to study in that country simply because of the opportunities to work there than say over the strengths of the MBA course they are interested in.

As for the link, well, that site is notorious for its ill-feeling towards Korea and does not in anyway reflect how things are here in reality. While it may offer some entertainment it should in no way influence a decision as important as choosing which foreign country to study in.

Hope that?s answered your questions

Thanks


quote
Clam

When I say average, I meant the guy straight in the middle of the class. The guy would rank right in the middle of the MBA program, average language skills compared to others etc... Nothing truly outstanding like having been an executive, worked for UN or anything like that. If you are first in your class, obviously life is a lot easier for you, so i'm not interested in that. What i'm interested in is how how the average joe at Yonsei performs after finishing the program. For people who are looking to switch careers (so no work experience in that field), how much weight can the school and education give in landing them that job, despite being right in the middle of the pack? Most schools have no problems placing their very best, but it is placing the bottom half that separates a good school from a great school. That's why I was making that question, if I confused you by saying average, sorry.

And as for superstar I read inbetween the lines. When you said skill, i thought you meant "highly skilled," but I guessed you only meant "basic skills."

So would you say that the average joe blow at a Korean university can land the exact same kind of job that the average joe blow (middle of the pack to clarify, maybe median would be a better word) for a school, say in Singapore or Hong Kong would? Same opportunities, same salary etc? I'm sure you don't want to divulge your own salary, but since you were at Yonsei, i assume there must be some rumors and insider knowledge we outsiders can't easily get ahold of. How are the facilities? Opportunities to network with local Koreans at other faculties?


When I say average, I meant the guy straight in the middle of the class. The guy would rank right in the middle of the MBA program, average language skills compared to others etc... Nothing truly outstanding like having been an executive, worked for UN or anything like that. If you are first in your class, obviously life is a lot easier for you, so i'm not interested in that. What i'm interested in is how how the average joe at Yonsei performs after finishing the program. For people who are looking to switch careers (so no work experience in that field), how much weight can the school and education give in landing them that job, despite being right in the middle of the pack? Most schools have no problems placing their very best, but it is placing the bottom half that separates a good school from a great school. That's why I was making that question, if I confused you by saying average, sorry.

And as for superstar I read inbetween the lines. When you said skill, i thought you meant "highly skilled," but I guessed you only meant "basic skills."

So would you say that the average joe blow at a Korean university can land the exact same kind of job that the average joe blow (middle of the pack to clarify, maybe median would be a better word) for a school, say in Singapore or Hong Kong would? Same opportunities, same salary etc? I'm sure you don't want to divulge your own salary, but since you were at Yonsei, i assume there must be some rumors and insider knowledge we outsiders can't easily get ahold of. How are the facilities? Opportunities to network with local Koreans at other faculties?
quote
Clam

Also, I already looked at the websites of these MBA programs and can't find information on placement, that's why i'm using the hypothetical "average" person to try to get an idea of how these schools do. Career services, opportunities etc... is one of the major benefits of doing an MBA, unless you already have a job lined up, so it's important to be clear how the schools place their students. A lot of other schools in other countries post data, but for schools in Korea and Japan i can't find anything. I'm not sure if it's because of an oversight, maybe i'm just bad at searching, they're purposely hiding bad results, or they have good results but never thought of putting up a pdf, but in the end, whatever the reason, I can't find the info. Hoping insider can help me there.


Also, I already looked at the websites of these MBA programs and can't find information on placement, that's why i'm using the hypothetical "average" person to try to get an idea of how these schools do. Career services, opportunities etc... is one of the major benefits of doing an MBA, unless you already have a job lined up, so it's important to be clear how the schools place their students. A lot of other schools in other countries post data, but for schools in Korea and Japan i can't find anything. I'm not sure if it's because of an oversight, maybe i'm just bad at searching, they're purposely hiding bad results, or they have good results but never thought of putting up a pdf, but in the end, whatever the reason, I can't find the info. Hoping insider can help me there.
quote

Clam,

i know an MBA program in Japan that has placement report for several years (you can check International University of Japan - GSIM website). I think they're doing fairly good.

as for Korean MBA, I couldn't find one. I asked a Yonsei MBA official, and he said that yonsei just started a more globalized MBA this year, so they had no placement report yet. When I ask about job of previous foreigner in Yonsei MBA, he said that they're doing fine (note: previously only few foreigner students, below 10). All the foreigner students secured a job in South Korea. He mentioned companies like LG, samsung, etc.

Any info about what is salary range for MBA graduate in Korea?

Clam,

i know an MBA program in Japan that has placement report for several years (you can check International University of Japan - GSIM website). I think they're doing fairly good.

as for Korean MBA, I couldn't find one. I asked a Yonsei MBA official, and he said that yonsei just started a more globalized MBA this year, so they had no placement report yet. When I ask about job of previous foreigner in Yonsei MBA, he said that they're doing fine (note: previously only few foreigner students, below 10). All the foreigner students secured a job in South Korea. He mentioned companies like LG, samsung, etc.

Any info about what is salary range for MBA graduate in Korea?
quote
Clam

Have you checked with SNU MBA officials at all? SNU is undeniably at the top of Korea, at least for general reputation, it should be a really good school when considering Korea. It's also the first Korean school to get AACSB accreditation too, so it's one of the schools I'd like to find more info on.

No one else has data on Korea? When it comes to Korea, i'm very worried about placement reports, average salary etc... It's hardly justifiable for many of us to leave our careers, forgoe our pay for the year, pay steep tuition fees and on top of it all not know how the MBA we're getting does in terms of placement. With no hard evidence to dispell the bad rep of Korea, really... tough to justify sacrificing so much.

I hope Korean universities begin posting up info soon. It makes sense for Yonsei to not have data if they are recently changing things up, but that only means they are untested, and honestly that scares me a bit. SNU was given accreditation in 2002, it's been around for a while I assume, so makes me wonder why they don't have info up, they don't seem to have an excuse.

Have you checked with SNU MBA officials at all? SNU is undeniably at the top of Korea, at least for general reputation, it should be a really good school when considering Korea. It's also the first Korean school to get AACSB accreditation too, so it's one of the schools I'd like to find more info on.

No one else has data on Korea? When it comes to Korea, i'm very worried about placement reports, average salary etc... It's hardly justifiable for many of us to leave our careers, forgoe our pay for the year, pay steep tuition fees and on top of it all not know how the MBA we're getting does in terms of placement. With no hard evidence to dispell the bad rep of Korea, really... tough to justify sacrificing so much.

I hope Korean universities begin posting up info soon. It makes sense for Yonsei to not have data if they are recently changing things up, but that only means they are untested, and honestly that scares me a bit. SNU was given accreditation in 2002, it's been around for a while I assume, so makes me wonder why they don't have info up, they don't seem to have an excuse.
quote
Lost4Now

I took the liberty of emailing SNU about their salary surveys. They said it would be out by July most likely (although they sounded uncertain). So out of all the Korean schools, if SNU releases their data, then I guess we can say at least there's 1 school that's more legit than the rest. I also emailed KoreaU, and they did not reply. Makes me wonder why they have to hide from such quiries. Is it because their average salary is so low they are ashamed and hiding it? Without data to counterract this gut feeling, it's hard to dispel such rumours altogether.


I took the liberty of emailing SNU about their salary surveys. They said it would be out by July most likely (although they sounded uncertain). So out of all the Korean schools, if SNU releases their data, then I guess we can say at least there's 1 school that's more legit than the rest. I also emailed KoreaU, and they did not reply. Makes me wonder why they have to hide from such quiries. Is it because their average salary is so low they are ashamed and hiding it? Without data to counterract this gut feeling, it's hard to dispel such rumours altogether.
quote
ralph

By KoreaU do you mean KUBS? It's also a good program, but maybe not of the same caliber as SNU. I don't know the salary data but it's really cool that they have a partnership with Wharton.

Check out the article on this website for more information:

http://www.find-mba.com/article/430/a-dragon-unleashed-mba-programs-in-south-korea

By KoreaU do you mean KUBS? It's also a good program, but maybe not of the same caliber as SNU. I don't know the salary data but it's really cool that they have a partnership with Wharton.

Check out the article on this website for more information:

http://www.find-mba.com/article/430/a-dragon-unleashed-mba-programs-in-south-korea
quote
Clam

KUBS and SNU probably would be at the top of my list if I wanted to go to Korea. I hear KUBS and KAIST have the top MBA programs in Korea right now. What that means and how much access to top Korean firms this provides, i'm not sure.

It seems pretty hard to get any concrete data on Korean schools. Usually I look at the numbers and decide from there. It's hard to just go on what the school's websites say, because obviously they are biased. Heck, sometimes on these boards I swear there are people that are probably paid to say good things about certain schools (there's no other way to explain some of the extreme biases, but I could be wrong).

I really do hope Korean MBA admin read these boards and realize that top applicants put heavy weight on concrete data. If the data is insufficient or too low, I guess hiding it would be smart, but obviously finding all means possible to increase those numbers enough to validate posting them on the website should be their goal in such cases.


KUBS and SNU probably would be at the top of my list if I wanted to go to Korea. I hear KUBS and KAIST have the top MBA programs in Korea right now. What that means and how much access to top Korean firms this provides, i'm not sure.

It seems pretty hard to get any concrete data on Korean schools. Usually I look at the numbers and decide from there. It's hard to just go on what the school's websites say, because obviously they are biased. Heck, sometimes on these boards I swear there are people that are probably paid to say good things about certain schools (there's no other way to explain some of the extreme biases, but I could be wrong).

I really do hope Korean MBA admin read these boards and realize that top applicants put heavy weight on concrete data. If the data is insufficient or too low, I guess hiding it would be smart, but obviously finding all means possible to increase those numbers enough to validate posting them on the website should be their goal in such cases.
quote
Mesix

I think that the value of a good MBA is its portability. Business is increasingly global, and institutions (or people) who take a national approach to business or business education are likely to be left behind. I would recommend asking the question "what school" first and "what country" second. An MBA from a globally recognized program (HBS, LBS, INSEAD, etc.) is valued anywhere. Many of the top schools are parterning with schools in other countries to offer international programs.

This is assuming that you want a top MBA. If you just want to get an MBA and prestige is less important, then look close to where you live to limit the cost of travel or relocation.

There are also a lot of good online programs now if you just want a diploma that says MBA. In the changing world of electronic commerce, many of the "top" online universities may even grow to become valuable credentials in the future. What better way to demonstrate that you can hold virtual meetings, conduct business with geographically disperssed teams, and navigate the information superhighway than to have a degree minted from an online university?

I think that the value of a good MBA is its portability. Business is increasingly global, and institutions (or people) who take a national approach to business or business education are likely to be left behind. I would recommend asking the question "what school" first and "what country" second. An MBA from a globally recognized program (HBS, LBS, INSEAD, etc.) is valued anywhere. Many of the top schools are parterning with schools in other countries to offer international programs.

This is assuming that you want a top MBA. If you just want to get an MBA and prestige is less important, then look close to where you live to limit the cost of travel or relocation.

There are also a lot of good online programs now if you just want a diploma that says MBA. In the changing world of electronic commerce, many of the "top" online universities may even grow to become valuable credentials in the future. What better way to demonstrate that you can hold virtual meetings, conduct business with geographically disperssed teams, and navigate the information superhighway than to have a degree minted from an online university?
quote
xlz

I absolutely agree with the point that I give priority to choose School, then the country. This is because the best business schools are not necessarily in the same country. However, MBA is valued anywhere. Many universities have international exchanging programs. This is very important for MBA studying. For example, SAIF has some great opportunities in China and other places in the world.

I absolutely agree with the point that I give priority to choose School, then the country. This is because the best business schools are not necessarily in the same country. However, MBA is valued anywhere. Many universities have international exchanging programs. This is very important for MBA studying. For example, SAIF has some great opportunities in China and other places in the world.
quote
Nazme

Everyone of us are talking abot China,Hong Kong,South Korea etc.But no one is talking about Taiwan.What about Taiwan?

Everyone of us are talking abot China,Hong Kong,South Korea etc.But no one is talking about Taiwan.What about Taiwan?
quote
xlz

Well, taiwan is actually part of China....If you want to know taiwan local MBA prgrammes, you can actually go to page : http://www.find-mba.com/taiwan.

Everyone of us are talking abot China,Hong Kong,South Korea etc.But no one is talking about Taiwan.What about Taiwan?

Well, taiwan is actually part of China....If you want to know taiwan local MBA prgrammes, you can actually go to page : http://www.find-mba.com/taiwan.

<blockquote>Everyone of us are talking abot China,Hong Kong,South Korea etc.But no one is talking about Taiwan.What about Taiwan?</blockquote>
quote
Nazme

Thanks xlz.

Thanks xlz.
quote

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