Hi,

I'm a foreign-born Chinese from Europe and I'm applying for an MBA as part of a broader objective to work in China.

From what I've read, it seems like a big name like Tsinghua (or PKU) can open many doors and it is appreciated in China that FBCs like me come with the humble attitude of studying local.
Studying for an extended period in Beijing will also give me a boost to polish my (currently fairly crappy) mandarin.

However, on the other side, I'm also in a position where I could get accepted at a Global Top 10 MBA (LBS) and the prestige of such institutions is hard to overlook.
But in this case, exchange programmes are only for 3-4 months in either Shanghai or HK, which may be good for studying China Business (the concentrations seem good) but not so good for studying the language.

So here's my question on China, China degrees and language. Is it better to have a degree from a top Chinese university and speak decent mandarin? Or is it better to have a degree from a top Global bschool?
I'm not yet sure if I will stick to foreign MNCs in China or if I'll go down a more authentic path and work if local companies.

I'm sure some people must have had the same questions.
And I will be grateful if anyone here could help me choose between both worlds.

If you want to work in China: Tsinghua
If you want to work in Europe: US MBA or LBS
But why not check out INSEAD and do 1 semester at Wharton?

If you want to work in China: Tsinghua
If you want to work in Europe: US MBA or LBS
But why not check out INSEAD and do 1 semester at Wharton?

Need an opinion. Basically gotten into two schools CEIS China nd HEC Paris. CEIBS is like ranked 8th by FT, however HEC seems to have a better reputation. I have been speaking to a number of people most of them seem to think that since Europe is in recession doing an Asian MBA makes sense. I also think that this century might actually belong to the Asian world. The costs for both are same considering I have a scholarship at HEC. Language barrier exists both places don't speak either Mandarin or French. Not particular about where I start working.

My profile is 4 years work experience, banking and financial services. GMAT score of 760.

Very confused a perspective will be most gratifying. Thanks and take care.

Need an opinion. Basically gotten into two schools CEIS China nd HEC Paris. CEIBS is like ranked 8th by FT, however HEC seems to have a better reputation. I have been speaking to a number of people most of them seem to think that since Europe is in recession doing an Asian MBA makes sense. I also think that this century might actually belong to the Asian world. The costs for both are same considering I have a scholarship at HEC. Language barrier exists both places don't speak either Mandarin or French. Not particular about where I start working.

My profile is 4 years work experience, banking and financial services. GMAT score of 760.

Very confused a perspective will be most gratifying. Thanks and take care.

I basically agree with 720_Andy...Given the downturn in the economy world-wide, taking two years off right now and going to a top MBA program in either Europe or North America is probably your best option. As rapidly as CEIBS has improved, it's still not yet on par with your options outside of China, and as 720_Andy points out, without Mandarin the degree doesn't open that many doors in China right now.

My advice to just about everyone right now who is looking for an MBA experience is that if you can get into a top 15 school in the North America or Europe, you're probably better advised to take that option over even the best options in China, including Hong Kong. Most of the top European and North American schools have active alumni groups in Shanghai, Hong Kong, and Beijing, which will be at least as useful as anything that you can find from a local option. And most importantly, the quality of the experience at a top European or North America will be significantly better--better trained faculty and more experienced classmates who have worked for some great companies.

Having gone to Tsinghua and working now for a year in Shanghai ? below are the two advantages of choosing a Chinese MBA over a US MBA if you are a foreigner. I would note that going for a China MBA is ideal for those who see themselves in China for 5 to 10 years following graduation. This is because getting a job outside China right after completing a China MBA is difficult. Out of our class of 120, only about 15 were able to do this and it was only after previous employers, good connections or persistence that they were able to do this. The best route would be to work in China for 5 to 10 years and then make the move back home on the experience and credentials you gained in China.

1) Chinese ? the above posts are correct. No Chinese ? no job (unless you want to teach English). Minimum level includes being able to understand meeting conducted in Chinese. The ideal level is to speak, read, and type. Reading the Chinese Newspaper before you go to work every day is the best way to keep up to date with what is happening in China. Depending on foreign newspapers means you only pay attention to what is happening where the foreign journalists are (Beijing, Shanghai) and not where the business opportunities are like Chongqing, Dongbei, Sichuan, Hubei, etc. Going to school in Tsinghua or Beida, you get access to the best Chinese learning environment in Beijing with many schools and 1 on 1 teachers. I started from scratch and now read the newspaper every day. Shanghai is much tougher to learn Chinese due to the Shanghai dialect. Outside of China, including Hong Kong, is very difficult for learning.

2) Network ? I do not completely agree with the above statement ?Most of the top European and North American schools have active alumni groups in Shanghai, Hong Kong, and Beijing, which will be at least as useful as anything that you can find from a local option.? Harvard, Princeton, M.I.T., and Yale do have strong alumni clubs here. Some of the new foreign intake at Tsinghua actually did their undergrad at Harvard and Princeton and now have come to Tsinghua mainly for the Chinese network. You can easily get a top foreign VC?s attention for 5 minutes if you tell him you have access to the engineering departments at Tsinghua (and in fact, you are allowed to take classes in these departments, including those taught in English).
The network of the classmates you get with a Chinese MBA with is the selling point for many foreigners. Unlike having only 5 or 6 of your classmates in China from a foreign MBA, you get 120, and 240 from the classes above and below you at Tsinghua. For foreigners, developing trust with Chinese in a school setting is the most successful way compared to other environments. This is because you start out on equal footing and are always working together on projects. The moment you step into the workforce in China, developing trust with Chinese becomes much more difficult. Trust in China allows you to ask hard questions and get real answers (and this only becomes more valuable when the questions get more important 15 to 20 years later). In addition, having worked at a few Chinese companies already, you will find that when you meet a fellow Tsinghua alumni working in your office, regardless of the school or year, there is also an immediate bond. When it comes to job searching for foreigners, I believe a Tsinghua/Beida MBA is very helpful when applying to Chinese companies trying to internationalize.

Many of the weaknesses have been mentioned above. Salary is a big item ? most foreigners from Tsinghua before the Credit Crisis were able to start out with $35K to $50K per year. For quality of classes, the quality of Tsinghua MBA classes are not as good as Stanford MBA classes (having attended the exchange program there). If you can improve your Chinese to the point where you can take classes in Chinese, the quality improves immensely. What you do learn at a Chinese MBA is how to work in a group with Chinese ? which will only be useful if you plan to stay in China long term.

A very interesting post! Thank you. I'm wondering if the aforementioned weaknesses (quality of instruction and salaries) will improve in the coming years. It sounds like China is a much different playing field than Europe, where top US/UK MBA programs are still sometimes more respected than "indigenous" programs....and where clumsy chaps with a tin ear for languages (like myself) still get the benefit of the doubt!

Need an opinion. Basically gotten into two schools CEIS China nd HEC Paris. CEIBS is like ranked 8th by FT, however HEC seems to have a better reputation. I have been speaking to a number of people most of them seem to think that since Europe is in recession doing an Asian MBA makes sense. I also think that this century might actually belong to the Asian world. The costs for both are same considering I have a scholarship at HEC. Language barrier exists both places don't speak either Mandarin or French. Not particular about where I start working.

Having gone to Tsinghua and working now for a year in Shanghai ? below are the two advantages of choosing a Chinese MBA over a US MBA if you are a foreigner. I would note that going for a China MBA is ideal for those who see themselves in China for 5 to 10 years following graduation. This is because getting a job outside China right after completing a China MBA is difficult. Out of our class of 120, only about 15 were able to do this and it was only after previous employers, good connections or persistence that they were able to do this. The best route would be to work in China for 5 to 10 years and then make the move back home on the experience and credentials you gained in China.

1) Chinese ? the above posts are correct. No Chinese ? no job (unless you want to teach English). Minimum level includes being able to understand meeting conducted in Chinese. The ideal level is to speak, read, and type. Reading the Chinese Newspaper before you go to work every day is the best way to keep up to date with what is happening in China. Depending on foreign newspapers means you only pay attention to what is happening where the foreign journalists are (Beijing, Shanghai) and not where the business opportunities are like Chongqing, Dongbei, Sichuan, Hubei, etc. Going to school in Tsinghua or Beida, you get access to the best Chinese learning environment in Beijing with many schools and 1 on 1 teachers. I started from scratch and now read the newspaper every day. Shanghai is much tougher to learn Chinese due to the Shanghai dialect. Outside of China, including Hong Kong, is very difficult for learning.

2) Network ? I do not completely agree with the above statement ?Most of the top European and North American schools have active alumni groups in Shanghai, Hong Kong, and Beijing, which will be at least as useful as anything that you can find from a local option.? Harvard, Princeton, M.I.T., and Yale do have strong alumni clubs here. Some of the new foreign intake at Tsinghua actually did their undergrad at Harvard and Princeton and now have come to Tsinghua mainly for the Chinese network. You can easily get a top foreign VC?s attention for 5 minutes if you tell him you have access to the engineering departments at Tsinghua (and in fact, you are allowed to take classes in these departments, including those taught in English).
The network of the classmates you get with a Chinese MBA with is the selling point for many foreigners. Unlike having only 5 or 6 of your classmates in China from a foreign MBA, you get 120, and 240 from the classes above and below you at Tsinghua. For foreigners, developing trust with Chinese in a school setting is the most successful way compared to other environments. This is because you start out on equal footing and are always working together on projects. The moment you step into the workforce in China, developing trust with Chinese becomes much more difficult. Trust in China allows you to ask hard questions and get real answers (and this only becomes more valuable when the questions get more important 15 to 20 years later). In addition, having worked at a few Chinese companies already, you will find that when you meet a fellow Tsinghua alumni working in your office, regardless of the school or year, there is also an immediate bond. When it comes to job searching for foreigners, I believe a Tsinghua/Beida MBA is very helpful when applying to Chinese companies trying to internationalize.

Many of the weaknesses have been mentioned above. Salary is a big item ? most foreigners from Tsinghua before the Credit Crisis were able to start out with $35K to $50K per year. For quality of classes, the quality of Tsinghua MBA classes are not as good as Stanford MBA classes (having attended the exchange program there). If you can improve your Chinese to the point where you can take classes in Chinese, the quality improves immensely. What you do learn at a Chinese MBA is how to work in a group with Chinese ? which will only be useful if you plan to stay in China long term.

Mandarin learning is a must!
in their find-mba blog interviews, both Gary Biddle, dean of the Faculty of Business and Economics at Hong Kong University (HKU) and Patrick Moreton of the Washington-Fudan Shanghai EMBA stressed it out.

http://blog.find-mba.com/2009/02/02/patrick_moreton_washington_fudan_emba/

http://blog.find-mba.com/2009/02/07/gary_biddle_hong_kong_emba_interview/

Just the thought of trying to learn how to write mandarin gives me a headache :-)

good luck!

Need an opinion. Basically gotten into two schools CEIS China nd HEC Paris. CEIBS is like ranked 8th by FT, however HEC seems to have a better reputation. I have been speaking to a number of people most of them seem to think that since Europe is in recession doing an Asian MBA makes sense. I also think that this century might actually belong to the Asian world. The costs for both are same considering I have a scholarship at HEC. Language barrier exists both places don't speak either Mandarin or French. Not particular about where I start working.

Hi sahillakshmanan,
HEC allows you to get a double degree at Tsinghua. So in the end you get both the French and the Chinese MBA title (with access to both alumnis). That might be a good bet for you if you want the best of both options.

Having gone to Tsinghua and working now for a year in Shanghai ? below are the two advantages of choosing a Chinese MBA over a US MBA if you are a foreigner. I would note that going for a China MBA is ideal for those who see themselves in China for 5 to 10 years following graduation. This is because getting a job outside China right after completing a China MBA is difficult. Out of our class of 120, only about 15 were able to do this and it was only after previous employers, good connections or persistence that they were able to do this. The best route would be to work in China for 5 to 10 years and then make the move back home on the experience and credentials you gained in China.

1) Chinese ? the above posts are correct. No Chinese ? no job (unless you want to teach English). Minimum level includes being able to understand meeting conducted in Chinese. The ideal level is to speak, read, and type. Reading the Chinese Newspaper before you go to work every day is the best way to keep up to date with what is happening in China. Depending on foreign newspapers means you only pay attention to what is happening where the foreign journalists are (Beijing, Shanghai) and not where the business opportunities are like Chongqing, Dongbei, Sichuan, Hubei, etc. Going to school in Tsinghua or Beida, you get access to the best Chinese learning environment in Beijing with many schools and 1 on 1 teachers. I started from scratch and now read the newspaper every day. Shanghai is much tougher to learn Chinese due to the Shanghai dialect. Outside of China, including Hong Kong, is very difficult for learning.

2) Network ? I do not completely agree with the above statement ?Most of the top European and North American schools have active alumni groups in Shanghai, Hong Kong, and Beijing, which will be at least as useful as anything that you can find from a local option.? Harvard, Princeton, M.I.T., and Yale do have strong alumni clubs here. Some of the new foreign intake at Tsinghua actually did their undergrad at Harvard and Princeton and now have come to Tsinghua mainly for the Chinese network. You can easily get a top foreign VC?s attention for 5 minutes if you tell him you have access to the engineering departments at Tsinghua (and in fact, you are allowed to take classes in these departments, including those taught in English).
The network of the classmates you get with a Chinese MBA with is the selling point for many foreigners. Unlike having only 5 or 6 of your classmates in China from a foreign MBA, you get 120, and 240 from the classes above and below you at Tsinghua. For foreigners, developing trust with Chinese in a school setting is the most successful way compared to other environments. This is because you start out on equal footing and are always working together on projects. The moment you step into the workforce in China, developing trust with Chinese becomes much more difficult. Trust in China allows you to ask hard questions and get real answers (and this only becomes more valuable when the questions get more important 15 to 20 years later). In addition, having worked at a few Chinese companies already, you will find that when you meet a fellow Tsinghua alumni working in your office, regardless of the school or year, there is also an immediate bond. When it comes to job searching for foreigners, I believe a Tsinghua/Beida MBA is very helpful when applying to Chinese companies trying to internationalize.

Many of the weaknesses have been mentioned above. Salary is a big item ? most foreigners from Tsinghua before the Credit Crisis were able to start out with $35K to $50K per year. For quality of classes, the quality of Tsinghua MBA classes are not as good as Stanford MBA classes (having attended the exchange program there). If you can improve your Chinese to the point where you can take classes in Chinese, the quality improves immensely. What you do learn at a Chinese MBA is how to work in a group with Chinese ? which will only be useful if you plan to stay in China long term.

Hi jtrak,

Thank you so much for your very interesting and detailed post! You have no idea how much help this is for me.

1) Chinese language: You mention you started from scratch. Did you start from scratch while studying at Tsinghua ? I'm planning to take some Chinese lessons before starting the MBA, also in order to hopefully follow some of the Chinese language courses (in my wildest dreams) that look of much higher quality than the English ones.
By when could you say you were able to read the newspaper ?

2) The network is a very important aspect of course. Actually, what you mention about being able to join the Engineering classes is very interesting. But how realistic is it? Given the workload of the MBA? Is the Chinese networking done on a IMBA level good enough? Or do you need to go follow the classes from Chinese MBA or engineering classes to get the real value of networking?

Thank you very much!
Bianca

Hi Ambassadors,

Can you please shed some lights on this particular programme.

1. I can see it is a collaboration betwen Tshinghua and MIT, from a student viewpoint what are the advantages?

Certificates, short-term exchanges with MIT, course-books from MIT etc?

2. I can see there are a few options to go overseas as part of your Tshinghua degree and I am convinced that MBA students would like to gain as much exposure to different exchange opportunities to broden their outlook

Are there any restrictions on exchanges? I mean what if there are more students than allocated seats. Also how many exchange can a student maximise ?

I see there are short-term exchange with Stanford and long-term exchange with a few others and the options of double MBA as well?

3.I know Tshinghua is well-after but can international students expect some help from career services

4. Are there some financial aid for international students

I have a few questions from the view of a non-Chinese background American wishing to apply to Tsinghua:

1) For schools in China for international students - it appears the decision between Tsinghua, CEIBS, or Hong Kong Schools (Chinese University of HK or HKUST). I have not seen any reviews from a foreign MBA from Beida and thus assume it is meant strictly for Chinese students. Cost appears to be in Tsinghua's advantage - its only 138K ($20K) compared to $48K to CEIBS compared to $50K+ at HKUST.
Question - If you had a free scholarship to all 3, would you still choose Tsinghua, or would you choose a ranked school like HKUST or CEIBS.

2) Tsinghua is now 50% international students. Some of the complaints I have read about Tsinghua and CEIBS are that the career services for international students are not good. If you have a class of 50% international students, is it easy to get the admin to start putting more resources to help foreigners get employment.

3) Chinese - It appears the people best suited for Tsinghua are ABCs or European born Chinese who speak/read fluently, and also look Chinese. The second best is to have studied undergraduate or graduate Chinese - meaning fluent reading of newspapers, writing pinyin/characters on computer, and mastery of tones and speaking. Thus, you can attend extracurricular activiites no problem and develop relationships with the entire SEM comunity. So why do people who do not fit in these two categories still go to Tsinghua? Are they finding jobs? It seems unlikely you can develop good Chinese while doing an MBA or working in 2 to 3 years (maybe 10 years)- you need 3 years of intense language study or you will be at the most average on your language.

4) Salary - The magic number I read about is 50K or 350,000 RMB a year following graduation which is "Local Plus" - Does this seem right from your knowledge? It seems with 50% international students now at Tsinghua, salary must be talked about more commonly than 4 years ago when there were only 25% international students. Do you know if CEIBS students get paid more? From my research, I think they get paid the same - if so, the Return on investment would make Tsinghua a much better deal since it is $28K cheaper.

5) Career Prospects - Are ABCs/Overseas Chinese from Tsinghua getting recruited by investment banks or international consulting firms. From my research, nobody who is non-Chinese works in large investment banks or large consulting firms in China unless they are sent there from the US or Europe. However, if ABCs from Tsinghua are getting recruited, it shows that career employers are taking you more seriously, and more importantly, your network 3 to 5 years down the line will be a lot better. This allows non-Chinese students better career opportunities as well.

Hi Ambassadors,

Can you please shed some lights on this particular programme.

1. I can see it is a collaboration betwen Tshinghua and MIT, from a student viewpoint what are the advantages?

Certificates, short-term exchanges with MIT, course-books from MIT etc?

2. I can see there are a few options to go overseas as part of your Tshinghua degree and I am convinced that MBA students would like to gain as much exposure to different exchange opportunities to broden their outlook

Are there any restrictions on exchanges? I mean what if there are more students than allocated seats. Also how many exchange can a student maximise ?

I see there are short-term exchange with Stanford and long-term exchange with a few others and the options of double MBA as well?

3.I know Tshinghua is well-after but can international students expect some help from career services

4. Are there some financial aid for international students

I have a few questions from the view of a non-Chinese background American wishing to apply to Tsinghua:

1) For schools in China for international students - it appears the decision between Tsinghua, CEIBS, or Hong Kong Schools (Chinese University of HK or HKUST). I have not seen any reviews from a foreign MBA from Beida and thus assume it is meant strictly for Chinese students. Cost appears to be in Tsinghua's advantage - its only 138K ($20K) compared to $48K to CEIBS compared to $50K+ at HKUST.
Question - If you had a free scholarship to all 3, would you still choose Tsinghua, or would you choose a ranked school like HKUST or CEIBS.

2) Tsinghua is now 50% international students. Some of the complaints I have read about Tsinghua and CEIBS are that the career services for international students are not good. If you have a class of 50% international students, is it easy to get the admin to start putting more resources to help foreigners get employment.

3) Chinese - It appears the people best suited for Tsinghua are ABCs or European born Chinese who speak/read fluently, and also look Chinese. The second best is to have studied undergraduate or graduate Chinese - meaning fluent reading of newspapers, writing pinyin/characters on computer, and mastery of tones and speaking. Thus, you can attend extracurricular activiites no problem and develop relationships with the entire SEM comunity. So why do people who do not fit in these two categories still go to Tsinghua? Are they finding jobs? It seems unlikely you can develop good Chinese while doing an MBA or working in 2 to 3 years (maybe 10 years)- you need 3 years of intense language study or you will be at the most average on your language.

4) Salary - The magic number I read about is 50K or 350,000 RMB a year following graduation which is "Local Plus" - Does this seem right from your knowledge? It seems with 50% international students now at Tsinghua, salary must be talked about more commonly than 4 years ago when there were only 25% international students. Do you know if CEIBS students get paid more? From my research, I think they get paid the same - if so, the Return on investment would make Tsinghua a much better deal since it is $28K cheaper.

5) Career Prospects - Are ABCs/Overseas Chinese from Tsinghua getting recruited by investment banks or international consulting firms. From my research, nobody who is non-Chinese works in large investment banks or large consulting firms in China unless they are sent there from the US or Europe. However, if ABCs from Tsinghua are getting recruited, it shows that career employers are taking you more seriously, and more importantly, your network 3 to 5 years down the line will be a lot better. This allows non-Chinese students better career opportunities as well.