Tsinghua or Global Top 10 MBA for China?


bianca
Hi,

I'm a foreign-born Chinese from Europe and I'm applying for an MBA as part of a broader objective to work in China.

From what I've read, it seems like a big name like Tsinghua (or PKU) can open many doors and it is appreciated in China that FBCs like me come with the humble attitude of studying local.
Studying for an extended period in Beijing will also give me a boost to polish my (currently fairly crappy) mandarin.

However, on the other side, I'm also in a position where I could get accepted at a Global Top 10 MBA (LBS) and the prestige of such institutions is hard to overlook.
But in this case, exchange programmes are only for 3-4 months in either Shanghai or HK, which may be good for studying China Business (the concentrations seem good) but not so good for studying the language.

So here's my question on China, China degrees and language. Is it better to have a degree from a top Chinese university and speak decent mandarin? Or is it better to have a degree from a top Global bschool?
I'm not yet sure if I will stick to foreign MNCs in China or if I'll go down a more authentic path and work if local companies.

I'm sure some people must have had the same questions.
And I will be grateful if anyone here could help me choose between both worlds.
Hi,

I'm a foreign-born Chinese from Europe and I'm applying for an MBA as part of a broader objective to work in China.

From what I've read, it seems like a big name like Tsinghua (or PKU) can open many doors and it is appreciated in China that FBCs like me come with the humble attitude of studying local.
Studying for an extended period in Beijing will also give me a boost to polish my (currently fairly crappy) mandarin.

However, on the other side, I'm also in a position where I could get accepted at a Global Top 10 MBA (LBS) and the prestige of such institutions is hard to overlook.
But in this case, exchange programmes are only for 3-4 months in either Shanghai or HK, which may be good for studying China Business (the concentrations seem good) but not so good for studying the language.

So here's my question on China, China degrees and language. Is it better to have a degree from a top Chinese university and speak decent mandarin? Or is it better to have a degree from a top Global bschool?
I'm not yet sure if I will stick to foreign MNCs in China or if I'll go down a more authentic path and work if local companies.

I'm sure some people must have had the same questions.
And I will be grateful if anyone here could help me choose between both worlds.
quote
If you want to work in China: Tsinghua
If you want to work in Europe: US MBA or LBS
But why not check out INSEAD and do 1 semester at Wharton?
If you want to work in China: Tsinghua
If you want to work in Europe: US MBA or LBS
But why not check out INSEAD and do 1 semester at Wharton?
quote
vishmba
If you want to work in China: Tsinghua
If you want to work in Europe: US MBA or LBS
But why not check out INSEAD and do 1 semester at Wharton?


Shanghai is where most of financial jobs are in mainland China, so consider CEIBS - yes its overrated but you could network there. For Hong Kong i would look at HKUST as well.
<blockquote>If you want to work in China: Tsinghua
If you want to work in Europe: US MBA or LBS
But why not check out INSEAD and do 1 semester at Wharton?</blockquote>

Shanghai is where most of financial jobs are in mainland China, so consider CEIBS - yes its overrated but you could network there. For Hong Kong i would look at HKUST as well.



quote
Need an opinion. Basically gotten into two schools CEIS China nd HEC Paris. CEIBS is like ranked 8th by FT, however HEC seems to have a better reputation. I have been speaking to a number of people most of them seem to think that since Europe is in recession doing an Asian MBA makes sense. I also think that this century might actually belong to the Asian world. The costs for both are same considering I have a scholarship at HEC. Language barrier exists both places don't speak either Mandarin or French. Not particular about where I start working.

My profile is 4 years work experience, banking and financial services. GMAT score of 760.

Very confused a perspective will be most gratifying. Thanks and take care.
Need an opinion. Basically gotten into two schools CEIS China nd HEC Paris. CEIBS is like ranked 8th by FT, however HEC seems to have a better reputation. I have been speaking to a number of people most of them seem to think that since Europe is in recession doing an Asian MBA makes sense. I also think that this century might actually belong to the Asian world. The costs for both are same considering I have a scholarship at HEC. Language barrier exists both places don't speak either Mandarin or French. Not particular about where I start working.

My profile is 4 years work experience, banking and financial services. GMAT score of 760.

Very confused a perspective will be most gratifying. Thanks and take care.
quote
720_andy
Need an opinion. Basically gotten into two schools CEIS China nd HEC Paris. CEIBS is like ranked 8th by FT, however HEC seems to have a better reputation. I have been speaking to a number of people most of them seem to think that since Europe is in recession doing an Asian MBA makes sense. I also think that this century might actually belong to the Asian world. The costs for both are same considering I have a scholarship at HEC. Language barrier exists both places don't speak either Mandarin or French. Not particular about where I start working.

My profile is 4 years work experience, banking and financial services. GMAT score of 760.

Very confused a perspective will be most gratifying. Thanks and take care.


Hi there

3 things you probably dont realize about CEIBS

1) FT adjusts salaries for purchasing power parity, this means that the number they give is totally irrelevant. People after CEIBS make about 35,000 USD. You have to realize that living in Shanghai is pretty expensive. Basically there is Shanghai and there is rest of China..

2) Without Mandarin the only job which you can count on post grad is your own business provided that you have enough capital to seed it and extend your stay legally.

3) CEIBS has a zero reputation outside of China. It is not even a top 50 school give away the extra points they score with inflated salaries.

Thats an impressive GMAT score, I would reconsider your choices. CEIBS with no Mandarin and MBA from a French school in this global economy wont mean much..

Look at Insead well as NUS in SIngapore and Hong Kong UST in Hong Kong. These should be your top choices in Asia if you do not speak Mandarin.

Apart from that you can never go wrong with getting a top 5 US MBA.
<blockquote>Need an opinion. Basically gotten into two schools CEIS China nd HEC Paris. CEIBS is like ranked 8th by FT, however HEC seems to have a better reputation. I have been speaking to a number of people most of them seem to think that since Europe is in recession doing an Asian MBA makes sense. I also think that this century might actually belong to the Asian world. The costs for both are same considering I have a scholarship at HEC. Language barrier exists both places don't speak either Mandarin or French. Not particular about where I start working.

My profile is 4 years work experience, banking and financial services. GMAT score of 760.

Very confused a perspective will be most gratifying. Thanks and take care.</blockquote>

Hi there

3 things you probably dont realize about CEIBS

1) FT adjusts salaries for purchasing power parity, this means that the number they give is totally irrelevant. People after CEIBS make about 35,000 USD. You have to realize that living in Shanghai is pretty expensive. Basically there is Shanghai and there is rest of China..

2) Without Mandarin the only job which you can count on post grad is your own business provided that you have enough capital to seed it and extend your stay legally.

3) CEIBS has a zero reputation outside of China. It is not even a top 50 school give away the extra points they score with inflated salaries.

Thats an impressive GMAT score, I would reconsider your choices. CEIBS with no Mandarin and MBA from a French school in this global economy wont mean much..

Look at Insead well as NUS in SIngapore and Hong Kong UST in Hong Kong. These should be your top choices in Asia if you do not speak Mandarin.

Apart from that you can never go wrong with getting a top 5 US MBA.
quote
I basically agree with 720_Andy...Given the downturn in the economy world-wide, taking two years off right now and going to a top MBA program in either Europe or North America is probably your best option. As rapidly as CEIBS has improved, it's still not yet on par with your options outside of China, and as 720_Andy points out, without Mandarin the degree doesn't open that many doors in China right now.

My advice to just about everyone right now who is looking for an MBA experience is that if you can get into a top 15 school in the North America or Europe, you're probably better advised to take that option over even the best options in China, including Hong Kong. Most of the top European and North American schools have active alumni groups in Shanghai, Hong Kong, and Beijing, which will be at least as useful as anything that you can find from a local option. And most importantly, the quality of the experience at a top European or North America will be significantly better--better trained faculty and more experienced classmates who have worked for some great companies.
I basically agree with 720_Andy...Given the downturn in the economy world-wide, taking two years off right now and going to a top MBA program in either Europe or North America is probably your best option. As rapidly as CEIBS has improved, it's still not yet on par with your options outside of China, and as 720_Andy points out, without Mandarin the degree doesn't open that many doors in China right now.

My advice to just about everyone right now who is looking for an MBA experience is that if you can get into a top 15 school in the North America or Europe, you're probably better advised to take that option over even the best options in China, including Hong Kong. Most of the top European and North American schools have active alumni groups in Shanghai, Hong Kong, and Beijing, which will be at least as useful as anything that you can find from a local option. And most importantly, the quality of the experience at a top European or North America will be significantly better--better trained faculty and more experienced classmates who have worked for some great companies.

quote
jtrak
Having gone to Tsinghua and working now for a year in Shanghai ? below are the two advantages of choosing a Chinese MBA over a US MBA if you are a foreigner. I would note that going for a China MBA is ideal for those who see themselves in China for 5 to 10 years following graduation. This is because getting a job outside China right after completing a China MBA is difficult. Out of our class of 120, only about 15 were able to do this and it was only after previous employers, good connections or persistence that they were able to do this. The best route would be to work in China for 5 to 10 years and then make the move back home on the experience and credentials you gained in China.

1) Chinese ? the above posts are correct. No Chinese ? no job (unless you want to teach English). Minimum level includes being able to understand meeting conducted in Chinese. The ideal level is to speak, read, and type. Reading the Chinese Newspaper before you go to work every day is the best way to keep up to date with what is happening in China. Depending on foreign newspapers means you only pay attention to what is happening where the foreign journalists are (Beijing, Shanghai) and not where the business opportunities are like Chongqing, Dongbei, Sichuan, Hubei, etc. Going to school in Tsinghua or Beida, you get access to the best Chinese learning environment in Beijing with many schools and 1 on 1 teachers. I started from scratch and now read the newspaper every day. Shanghai is much tougher to learn Chinese due to the Shanghai dialect. Outside of China, including Hong Kong, is very difficult for learning.

2) Network ? I do not completely agree with the above statement ?Most of the top European and North American schools have active alumni groups in Shanghai, Hong Kong, and Beijing, which will be at least as useful as anything that you can find from a local option.? Harvard, Princeton, M.I.T., and Yale do have strong alumni clubs here. Some of the new foreign intake at Tsinghua actually did their undergrad at Harvard and Princeton and now have come to Tsinghua mainly for the Chinese network. You can easily get a top foreign VC?s attention for 5 minutes if you tell him you have access to the engineering departments at Tsinghua (and in fact, you are allowed to take classes in these departments, including those taught in English).
The network of the classmates you get with a Chinese MBA with is the selling point for many foreigners. Unlike having only 5 or 6 of your classmates in China from a foreign MBA, you get 120, and 240 from the classes above and below you at Tsinghua. For foreigners, developing trust with Chinese in a school setting is the most successful way compared to other environments. This is because you start out on equal footing and are always working together on projects. The moment you step into the workforce in China, developing trust with Chinese becomes much more difficult. Trust in China allows you to ask hard questions and get real answers (and this only becomes more valuable when the questions get more important 15 to 20 years later). In addition, having worked at a few Chinese companies already, you will find that when you meet a fellow Tsinghua alumni working in your office, regardless of the school or year, there is also an immediate bond. When it comes to job searching for foreigners, I believe a Tsinghua/Beida MBA is very helpful when applying to Chinese companies trying to internationalize.

Many of the weaknesses have been mentioned above. Salary is a big item ? most foreigners from Tsinghua before the Credit Crisis were able to start out with $35K to $50K per year. For quality of classes, the quality of Tsinghua MBA classes are not as good as Stanford MBA classes (having attended the exchange program there). If you can improve your Chinese to the point where you can take classes in Chinese, the quality improves immensely. What you do learn at a Chinese MBA is how to work in a group with Chinese ? which will only be useful if you plan to stay in China long term.
Having gone to Tsinghua and working now for a year in Shanghai ? below are the two advantages of choosing a Chinese MBA over a US MBA if you are a foreigner. I would note that going for a China MBA is ideal for those who see themselves in China for 5 to 10 years following graduation. This is because getting a job outside China right after completing a China MBA is difficult. Out of our class of 120, only about 15 were able to do this and it was only after previous employers, good connections or persistence that they were able to do this. The best route would be to work in China for 5 to 10 years and then make the move back home on the experience and credentials you gained in China.

1) Chinese ? the above posts are correct. No Chinese ? no job (unless you want to teach English). Minimum level includes being able to understand meeting conducted in Chinese. The ideal level is to speak, read, and type. Reading the Chinese Newspaper before you go to work every day is the best way to keep up to date with what is happening in China. Depending on foreign newspapers means you only pay attention to what is happening where the foreign journalists are (Beijing, Shanghai) and not where the business opportunities are like Chongqing, Dongbei, Sichuan, Hubei, etc. Going to school in Tsinghua or Beida, you get access to the best Chinese learning environment in Beijing with many schools and 1 on 1 teachers. I started from scratch and now read the newspaper every day. Shanghai is much tougher to learn Chinese due to the Shanghai dialect. Outside of China, including Hong Kong, is very difficult for learning.

2) Network ? I do not completely agree with the above statement ?Most of the top European and North American schools have active alumni groups in Shanghai, Hong Kong, and Beijing, which will be at least as useful as anything that you can find from a local option.? Harvard, Princeton, M.I.T., and Yale do have strong alumni clubs here. Some of the new foreign intake at Tsinghua actually did their undergrad at Harvard and Princeton and now have come to Tsinghua mainly for the Chinese network. You can easily get a top foreign VC?s attention for 5 minutes if you tell him you have access to the engineering departments at Tsinghua (and in fact, you are allowed to take classes in these departments, including those taught in English).
The network of the classmates you get with a Chinese MBA with is the selling point for many foreigners. Unlike having only 5 or 6 of your classmates in China from a foreign MBA, you get 120, and 240 from the classes above and below you at Tsinghua. For foreigners, developing trust with Chinese in a school setting is the most successful way compared to other environments. This is because you start out on equal footing and are always working together on projects. The moment you step into the workforce in China, developing trust with Chinese becomes much more difficult. Trust in China allows you to ask hard questions and get real answers (and this only becomes more valuable when the questions get more important 15 to 20 years later). In addition, having worked at a few Chinese companies already, you will find that when you meet a fellow Tsinghua alumni working in your office, regardless of the school or year, there is also an immediate bond. When it comes to job searching for foreigners, I believe a Tsinghua/Beida MBA is very helpful when applying to Chinese companies trying to internationalize.

Many of the weaknesses have been mentioned above. Salary is a big item ? most foreigners from Tsinghua before the Credit Crisis were able to start out with $35K to $50K per year. For quality of classes, the quality of Tsinghua MBA classes are not as good as Stanford MBA classes (having attended the exchange program there). If you can improve your Chinese to the point where you can take classes in Chinese, the quality improves immensely. What you do learn at a Chinese MBA is how to work in a group with Chinese ? which will only be useful if you plan to stay in China long term.
quote
Evan2007
A very interesting post! Thank you. I'm wondering if the aforementioned weaknesses (quality of instruction and salaries) will improve in the coming years. It sounds like China is a much different playing field than Europe, where top US/UK MBA programs are still sometimes more respected than "indigenous" programs....and where clumsy chaps with a tin ear for languages (like myself) still get the benefit of the doubt!
A very interesting post! Thank you. I'm wondering if the aforementioned weaknesses (quality of instruction and salaries) will improve in the coming years. It sounds like China is a much different playing field than Europe, where top US/UK MBA programs are still sometimes more respected than "indigenous" programs....and where clumsy chaps with a tin ear for languages (like myself) still get the benefit of the doubt!
quote
bianca
Need an opinion. Basically gotten into two schools CEIS China nd HEC Paris. CEIBS is like ranked 8th by FT, however HEC seems to have a better reputation. I have been speaking to a number of people most of them seem to think that since Europe is in recession doing an Asian MBA makes sense. I also think that this century might actually belong to the Asian world. The costs for both are same considering I have a scholarship at HEC. Language barrier exists both places don't speak either Mandarin or French. Not particular about where I start working.


Hi sahillakshmanan,
HEC allows you to get a double degree at Tsinghua. So in the end you get both the French and the Chinese MBA title (with access to both alumnis). That might be a good bet for you if you want the best of both options.

Having gone to Tsinghua and working now for a year in Shanghai ? below are the two advantages of choosing a Chinese MBA over a US MBA if you are a foreigner. I would note that going for a China MBA is ideal for those who see themselves in China for 5 to 10 years following graduation. This is because getting a job outside China right after completing a China MBA is difficult. Out of our class of 120, only about 15 were able to do this and it was only after previous employers, good connections or persistence that they were able to do this. The best route would be to work in China for 5 to 10 years and then make the move back home on the experience and credentials you gained in China.

1) Chinese ? the above posts are correct. No Chinese ? no job (unless you want to teach English). Minimum level includes being able to understand meeting conducted in Chinese. The ideal level is to speak, read, and type. Reading the Chinese Newspaper before you go to work every day is the best way to keep up to date with what is happening in China. Depending on foreign newspapers means you only pay attention to what is happening where the foreign journalists are (Beijing, Shanghai) and not where the business opportunities are like Chongqing, Dongbei, Sichuan, Hubei, etc. Going to school in Tsinghua or Beida, you get access to the best Chinese learning environment in Beijing with many schools and 1 on 1 teachers. I started from scratch and now read the newspaper every day. Shanghai is much tougher to learn Chinese due to the Shanghai dialect. Outside of China, including Hong Kong, is very difficult for learning.

2) Network ? I do not completely agree with the above statement ?Most of the top European and North American schools have active alumni groups in Shanghai, Hong Kong, and Beijing, which will be at least as useful as anything that you can find from a local option.? Harvard, Princeton, M.I.T., and Yale do have strong alumni clubs here. Some of the new foreign intake at Tsinghua actually did their undergrad at Harvard and Princeton and now have come to Tsinghua mainly for the Chinese network. You can easily get a top foreign VC?s attention for 5 minutes if you tell him you have access to the engineering departments at Tsinghua (and in fact, you are allowed to take classes in these departments, including those taught in English).
The network of the classmates you get with a Chinese MBA with is the selling point for many foreigners. Unlike having only 5 or 6 of your classmates in China from a foreign MBA, you get 120, and 240 from the classes above and below you at Tsinghua. For foreigners, developing trust with Chinese in a school setting is the most successful way compared to other environments. This is because you start out on equal footing and are always working together on projects. The moment you step into the workforce in China, developing trust with Chinese becomes much more difficult. Trust in China allows you to ask hard questions and get real answers (and this only becomes more valuable when the questions get more important 15 to 20 years later). In addition, having worked at a few Chinese companies already, you will find that when you meet a fellow Tsinghua alumni working in your office, regardless of the school or year, there is also an immediate bond. When it comes to job searching for foreigners, I believe a Tsinghua/Beida MBA is very helpful when applying to Chinese companies trying to internationalize.

Many of the weaknesses have been mentioned above. Salary is a big item ? most foreigners from Tsinghua before the Credit Crisis were able to start out with $35K to $50K per year. For quality of classes, the quality of Tsinghua MBA classes are not as good as Stanford MBA classes (having attended the exchange program there). If you can improve your Chinese to the point where you can take classes in Chinese, the quality improves immensely. What you do learn at a Chinese MBA is how to work in a group with Chinese ? which will only be useful if you plan to stay in China long term.


Hi jtrak,

Thank you so much for your very interesting and detailed post! You have no idea how much help this is for me.

1) Chinese language: You mention you started from scratch. Did you start from scratch while studying at Tsinghua ? I'm planning to take some Chinese lessons before starting the MBA, also in order to hopefully follow some of the Chinese language courses (in my wildest dreams) that look of much higher quality than the English ones.
By when could you say you were able to read the newspaper ?

2) The network is a very important aspect of course. Actually, what you mention about being able to join the Engineering classes is very interesting. But how realistic is it? Given the workload of the MBA? Is the Chinese networking done on a IMBA level good enough? Or do you need to go follow the classes from Chinese MBA or engineering classes to get the real value of networking?

Thank you very much!
Bianca
<blockquote>Need an opinion. Basically gotten into two schools CEIS China nd HEC Paris. CEIBS is like ranked 8th by FT, however HEC seems to have a better reputation. I have been speaking to a number of people most of them seem to think that since Europe is in recession doing an Asian MBA makes sense. I also think that this century might actually belong to the Asian world. The costs for both are same considering I have a scholarship at HEC. Language barrier exists both places don't speak either Mandarin or French. Not particular about where I start working.</blockquote>

Hi sahillakshmanan,
HEC allows you to get a double degree at Tsinghua. So in the end you get both the French and the Chinese MBA title (with access to both alumnis). That might be a good bet for you if you want the best of both options.

<blockquote>Having gone to Tsinghua and working now for a year in Shanghai ? below are the two advantages of choosing a Chinese MBA over a US MBA if you are a foreigner. I would note that going for a China MBA is ideal for those who see themselves in China for 5 to 10 years following graduation. This is because getting a job outside China right after completing a China MBA is difficult. Out of our class of 120, only about 15 were able to do this and it was only after previous employers, good connections or persistence that they were able to do this. The best route would be to work in China for 5 to 10 years and then make the move back home on the experience and credentials you gained in China.

1) Chinese ? the above posts are correct. No Chinese ? no job (unless you want to teach English). Minimum level includes being able to understand meeting conducted in Chinese. The ideal level is to speak, read, and type. Reading the Chinese Newspaper before you go to work every day is the best way to keep up to date with what is happening in China. Depending on foreign newspapers means you only pay attention to what is happening where the foreign journalists are (Beijing, Shanghai) and not where the business opportunities are like Chongqing, Dongbei, Sichuan, Hubei, etc. Going to school in Tsinghua or Beida, you get access to the best Chinese learning environment in Beijing with many schools and 1 on 1 teachers. I started from scratch and now read the newspaper every day. Shanghai is much tougher to learn Chinese due to the Shanghai dialect. Outside of China, including Hong Kong, is very difficult for learning.

2) Network ? I do not completely agree with the above statement ?Most of the top European and North American schools have active alumni groups in Shanghai, Hong Kong, and Beijing, which will be at least as useful as anything that you can find from a local option.? Harvard, Princeton, M.I.T., and Yale do have strong alumni clubs here. Some of the new foreign intake at Tsinghua actually did their undergrad at Harvard and Princeton and now have come to Tsinghua mainly for the Chinese network. You can easily get a top foreign VC?s attention for 5 minutes if you tell him you have access to the engineering departments at Tsinghua (and in fact, you are allowed to take classes in these departments, including those taught in English).
The network of the classmates you get with a Chinese MBA with is the selling point for many foreigners. Unlike having only 5 or 6 of your classmates in China from a foreign MBA, you get 120, and 240 from the classes above and below you at Tsinghua. For foreigners, developing trust with Chinese in a school setting is the most successful way compared to other environments. This is because you start out on equal footing and are always working together on projects. The moment you step into the workforce in China, developing trust with Chinese becomes much more difficult. Trust in China allows you to ask hard questions and get real answers (and this only becomes more valuable when the questions get more important 15 to 20 years later). In addition, having worked at a few Chinese companies already, you will find that when you meet a fellow Tsinghua alumni working in your office, regardless of the school or year, there is also an immediate bond. When it comes to job searching for foreigners, I believe a Tsinghua/Beida MBA is very helpful when applying to Chinese companies trying to internationalize.

Many of the weaknesses have been mentioned above. Salary is a big item ? most foreigners from Tsinghua before the Credit Crisis were able to start out with $35K to $50K per year. For quality of classes, the quality of Tsinghua MBA classes are not as good as Stanford MBA classes (having attended the exchange program there). If you can improve your Chinese to the point where you can take classes in Chinese, the quality improves immensely. What you do learn at a Chinese MBA is how to work in a group with Chinese ? which will only be useful if you plan to stay in China long term.
</blockquote>

Hi jtrak,

Thank you so much for your very interesting and detailed post! You have no idea how much help this is for me.

1) Chinese language: You mention you started from scratch. Did you start from scratch while studying at Tsinghua ? I'm planning to take some Chinese lessons before starting the MBA, also in order to hopefully follow some of the Chinese language courses (in my wildest dreams) that look of much higher quality than the English ones.
By when could you say you were able to read the newspaper ?

2) The network is a very important aspect of course. Actually, what you mention about being able to join the Engineering classes is very interesting. But how realistic is it? Given the workload of the MBA? Is the Chinese networking done on a IMBA level good enough? Or do you need to go follow the classes from Chinese MBA or engineering classes to get the real value of networking?

Thank you very much!
Bianca
quote
andy.j.
Mandarin learning is a must!
in their find-mba blog interviews, both Gary Biddle, dean of the Faculty of Business and Economics at Hong Kong University (HKU) and Patrick Moreton of the Washington-Fudan Shanghai EMBA stressed it out.

http://blog.find-mba.com/2009/02/02/patrick_moreton_washington_fudan_emba/

http://blog.find-mba.com/2009/02/07/gary_biddle_hong_kong_emba_interview/

Just the thought of trying to learn how to write mandarin gives me a headache :-)

good luck!
Mandarin learning is a must!
in their find-mba blog interviews, both Gary Biddle, dean of the Faculty of Business and Economics at Hong Kong University (HKU) and Patrick Moreton of the Washington-Fudan Shanghai EMBA stressed it out.

http://blog.find-mba.com/2009/02/02/patrick_moreton_washington_fudan_emba/

http://blog.find-mba.com/2009/02/07/gary_biddle_hong_kong_emba_interview/

Just the thought of trying to learn how to write mandarin gives me a headache :-)

good luck!
quote
Need an opinion. Basically gotten into two schools CEIS China nd HEC Paris. CEIBS is like ranked 8th by FT, however HEC seems to have a better reputation. I have been speaking to a number of people most of them seem to think that since Europe is in recession doing an Asian MBA makes sense. I also think that this century might actually belong to the Asian world. The costs for both are same considering I have a scholarship at HEC. Language barrier exists both places don't speak either Mandarin or French. Not particular about where I start working.


Hi sahillakshmanan,
HEC allows you to get a double degree at Tsinghua. So in the end you get both the French and the Chinese MBA title (with access to both alumnis). That might be a good bet for you if you want the best of both options.

Having gone to Tsinghua and working now for a year in Shanghai ? below are the two advantages of choosing a Chinese MBA over a US MBA if you are a foreigner. I would note that going for a China MBA is ideal for those who see themselves in China for 5 to 10 years following graduation. This is because getting a job outside China right after completing a China MBA is difficult. Out of our class of 120, only about 15 were able to do this and it was only after previous employers, good connections or persistence that they were able to do this. The best route would be to work in China for 5 to 10 years and then make the move back home on the experience and credentials you gained in China.

1) Chinese ? the above posts are correct. No Chinese ? no job (unless you want to teach English). Minimum level includes being able to understand meeting conducted in Chinese. The ideal level is to speak, read, and type. Reading the Chinese Newspaper before you go to work every day is the best way to keep up to date with what is happening in China. Depending on foreign newspapers means you only pay attention to what is happening where the foreign journalists are (Beijing, Shanghai) and not where the business opportunities are like Chongqing, Dongbei, Sichuan, Hubei, etc. Going to school in Tsinghua or Beida, you get access to the best Chinese learning environment in Beijing with many schools and 1 on 1 teachers. I started from scratch and now read the newspaper every day. Shanghai is much tougher to learn Chinese due to the Shanghai dialect. Outside of China, including Hong Kong, is very difficult for learning.

2) Network ? I do not completely agree with the above statement ?Most of the top European and North American schools have active alumni groups in Shanghai, Hong Kong, and Beijing, which will be at least as useful as anything that you can find from a local option.? Harvard, Princeton, M.I.T., and Yale do have strong alumni clubs here. Some of the new foreign intake at Tsinghua actually did their undergrad at Harvard and Princeton and now have come to Tsinghua mainly for the Chinese network. You can easily get a top foreign VC?s attention for 5 minutes if you tell him you have access to the engineering departments at Tsinghua (and in fact, you are allowed to take classes in these departments, including those taught in English).
The network of the classmates you get with a Chinese MBA with is the selling point for many foreigners. Unlike having only 5 or 6 of your classmates in China from a foreign MBA, you get 120, and 240 from the classes above and below you at Tsinghua. For foreigners, developing trust with Chinese in a school setting is the most successful way compared to other environments. This is because you start out on equal footing and are always working together on projects. The moment you step into the workforce in China, developing trust with Chinese becomes much more difficult. Trust in China allows you to ask hard questions and get real answers (and this only becomes more valuable when the questions get more important 15 to 20 years later). In addition, having worked at a few Chinese companies already, you will find that when you meet a fellow Tsinghua alumni working in your office, regardless of the school or year, there is also an immediate bond. When it comes to job searching for foreigners, I believe a Tsinghua/Beida MBA is very helpful when applying to Chinese companies trying to internationalize.

Many of the weaknesses have been mentioned above. Salary is a big item ? most foreigners from Tsinghua before the Credit Crisis were able to start out with $35K to $50K per year. For quality of classes, the quality of Tsinghua MBA classes are not as good as Stanford MBA classes (having attended the exchange program there). If you can improve your Chinese to the point where you can take classes in Chinese, the quality improves immensely. What you do learn at a Chinese MBA is how to work in a group with Chinese ? which will only be useful if you plan to stay in China long term.


Hi jtrak,

Thank you so much for your very interesting and detailed post! You have no idea how much help this is for me.

1) Chinese language: You mention you started from scratch. Did you start from scratch while studying at Tsinghua ? I'm planning to take some Chinese lessons before starting the MBA, also in order to hopefully follow some of the Chinese language courses (in my wildest dreams) that look of much higher quality than the English ones.
By when could you say you were able to read the newspaper ?

2) The network is a very important aspect of course. Actually, what you mention about being able to join the Engineering classes is very interesting. But how realistic is it? Given the workload of the MBA? Is the Chinese networking done on a IMBA level good enough? Or do you need to go follow the classes from Chinese MBA or engineering classes to get the real value of networking?

Thank you very much!
Bianca


Hi, as a student ambassador of the Tsinghua International MBA program, just thought I would provide some added perspective to the above posts:

Yes, Mandarin is critically important, not only if you intend to work or study in China but for your day-to-day life as well. There is no need to fret however, there are plenty of international students whom I study with here that started from scratch at the beginning of the semester and are already pretty proficient (getting around the city, ordering food at a restaurant etc) after only several months. When you hear and speak mandarin everyday, the seemingly daunting task of learning a completely new language disappears. The Tsinghua international MBA also offers Mandarin classes as part of the program, this could be supplemented by either taking classes off campus or finding a language partner to practice with during your time away from classes. To further speed up the process you should also consider taking 1-2 weeks of intensive language classes (in Beijing or your home country) before beginning the program.

Onto a separate point, I would like to stress that the network in Tsinghua is simply unrivaled. Your classmates and alumni network forms the mainstream of the Chinese society. In terms of taking classes in other schools and departments, it is possible. While the workload for the first school year is pretty heavy because of the number of core classes, the second year consists of mostly electives and there are potentially no classes for the 4th and final semester as students are expected to be working on their final graduation case study. In fact, as students of Tsinghua we are allowed to add classes in any department, I try as much as possible to sit in courses at the design school (ranked best in the country) in my "free time".

Feel free to post any further questions or comments here, a group of us ambassadors will be frequently monitoring the site for updates. Finally, a note that the final application deadline for Fall of 2010 will be this coming March 15, for more information please refer to the links below:

Application information:
http://mba.sem.tsinghua.edu.cn/mba/tabid/184/Default.aspx
IMBA Ambassadors:
http://mba.sem.tsinghua.edu.cn/mba/tabid/674/Default.aspx
<blockquote><blockquote>Need an opinion. Basically gotten into two schools CEIS China nd HEC Paris. CEIBS is like ranked 8th by FT, however HEC seems to have a better reputation. I have been speaking to a number of people most of them seem to think that since Europe is in recession doing an Asian MBA makes sense. I also think that this century might actually belong to the Asian world. The costs for both are same considering I have a scholarship at HEC. Language barrier exists both places don't speak either Mandarin or French. Not particular about where I start working.</blockquote>

Hi sahillakshmanan,
HEC allows you to get a double degree at Tsinghua. So in the end you get both the French and the Chinese MBA title (with access to both alumnis). That might be a good bet for you if you want the best of both options.

<blockquote>Having gone to Tsinghua and working now for a year in Shanghai ? below are the two advantages of choosing a Chinese MBA over a US MBA if you are a foreigner. I would note that going for a China MBA is ideal for those who see themselves in China for 5 to 10 years following graduation. This is because getting a job outside China right after completing a China MBA is difficult. Out of our class of 120, only about 15 were able to do this and it was only after previous employers, good connections or persistence that they were able to do this. The best route would be to work in China for 5 to 10 years and then make the move back home on the experience and credentials you gained in China.

1) Chinese ? the above posts are correct. No Chinese ? no job (unless you want to teach English). Minimum level includes being able to understand meeting conducted in Chinese. The ideal level is to speak, read, and type. Reading the Chinese Newspaper before you go to work every day is the best way to keep up to date with what is happening in China. Depending on foreign newspapers means you only pay attention to what is happening where the foreign journalists are (Beijing, Shanghai) and not where the business opportunities are like Chongqing, Dongbei, Sichuan, Hubei, etc. Going to school in Tsinghua or Beida, you get access to the best Chinese learning environment in Beijing with many schools and 1 on 1 teachers. I started from scratch and now read the newspaper every day. Shanghai is much tougher to learn Chinese due to the Shanghai dialect. Outside of China, including Hong Kong, is very difficult for learning.

2) Network ? I do not completely agree with the above statement ?Most of the top European and North American schools have active alumni groups in Shanghai, Hong Kong, and Beijing, which will be at least as useful as anything that you can find from a local option.? Harvard, Princeton, M.I.T., and Yale do have strong alumni clubs here. Some of the new foreign intake at Tsinghua actually did their undergrad at Harvard and Princeton and now have come to Tsinghua mainly for the Chinese network. You can easily get a top foreign VC?s attention for 5 minutes if you tell him you have access to the engineering departments at Tsinghua (and in fact, you are allowed to take classes in these departments, including those taught in English).
The network of the classmates you get with a Chinese MBA with is the selling point for many foreigners. Unlike having only 5 or 6 of your classmates in China from a foreign MBA, you get 120, and 240 from the classes above and below you at Tsinghua. For foreigners, developing trust with Chinese in a school setting is the most successful way compared to other environments. This is because you start out on equal footing and are always working together on projects. The moment you step into the workforce in China, developing trust with Chinese becomes much more difficult. Trust in China allows you to ask hard questions and get real answers (and this only becomes more valuable when the questions get more important 15 to 20 years later). In addition, having worked at a few Chinese companies already, you will find that when you meet a fellow Tsinghua alumni working in your office, regardless of the school or year, there is also an immediate bond. When it comes to job searching for foreigners, I believe a Tsinghua/Beida MBA is very helpful when applying to Chinese companies trying to internationalize.

Many of the weaknesses have been mentioned above. Salary is a big item ? most foreigners from Tsinghua before the Credit Crisis were able to start out with $35K to $50K per year. For quality of classes, the quality of Tsinghua MBA classes are not as good as Stanford MBA classes (having attended the exchange program there). If you can improve your Chinese to the point where you can take classes in Chinese, the quality improves immensely. What you do learn at a Chinese MBA is how to work in a group with Chinese ? which will only be useful if you plan to stay in China long term.
</blockquote>

Hi jtrak,

Thank you so much for your very interesting and detailed post! You have no idea how much help this is for me.

1) Chinese language: You mention you started from scratch. Did you start from scratch while studying at Tsinghua ? I'm planning to take some Chinese lessons before starting the MBA, also in order to hopefully follow some of the Chinese language courses (in my wildest dreams) that look of much higher quality than the English ones.
By when could you say you were able to read the newspaper ?

2) The network is a very important aspect of course. Actually, what you mention about being able to join the Engineering classes is very interesting. But how realistic is it? Given the workload of the MBA? Is the Chinese networking done on a IMBA level good enough? Or do you need to go follow the classes from Chinese MBA or engineering classes to get the real value of networking?

Thank you very much!
Bianca</blockquote>

Hi, as a student ambassador of the Tsinghua International MBA program, just thought I would provide some added perspective to the above posts:

Yes, Mandarin is critically important, not only if you intend to work or study in China but for your day-to-day life as well. There is no need to fret however, there are plenty of international students whom I study with here that started from scratch at the beginning of the semester and are already pretty proficient (getting around the city, ordering food at a restaurant etc) after only several months. When you hear and speak mandarin everyday, the seemingly daunting task of learning a completely new language disappears. The Tsinghua international MBA also offers Mandarin classes as part of the program, this could be supplemented by either taking classes off campus or finding a language partner to practice with during your time away from classes. To further speed up the process you should also consider taking 1-2 weeks of intensive language classes (in Beijing or your home country) before beginning the program.

Onto a separate point, I would like to stress that the network in Tsinghua is simply unrivaled. Your classmates and alumni network forms the mainstream of the Chinese society. In terms of taking classes in other schools and departments, it is possible. While the workload for the first school year is pretty heavy because of the number of core classes, the second year consists of mostly electives and there are potentially no classes for the 4th and final semester as students are expected to be working on their final graduation case study. In fact, as students of Tsinghua we are allowed to add classes in any department, I try as much as possible to sit in courses at the design school (ranked best in the country) in my "free time".

Feel free to post any further questions or comments here, a group of us ambassadors will be frequently monitoring the site for updates. Finally, a note that the final application deadline for Fall of 2010 will be this coming March 15, for more information please refer to the links below:

Application information:
http://mba.sem.tsinghua.edu.cn/mba/tabid/184/Default.aspx
IMBA Ambassadors:
http://mba.sem.tsinghua.edu.cn/mba/tabid/674/Default.aspx
quote
donho199
Hi Ambassadors,

Can you please shed some lights on this particular programme.

1. I can see it is a collaboration betwen Tshinghua and MIT, from a student viewpoint what are the advantages?

Certificates, short-term exchanges with MIT, course-books from MIT etc?

2. I can see there are a few options to go overseas as part of your Tshinghua degree and I am convinced that MBA students would like to gain as much exposure to different exchange opportunities to broden their outlook

Are there any restrictions on exchanges? I mean what if there are more students than allocated seats. Also how many exchange can a student maximise ?

I see there are short-term exchange with Stanford and long-term exchange with a few others and the options of double MBA as well?

3.I know Tshinghua is well-after but can international students expect some help from career services

4. Are there some financial aid for international students
Hi Ambassadors,

Can you please shed some lights on this particular programme.

1. I can see it is a collaboration betwen Tshinghua and MIT, from a student viewpoint what are the advantages?

Certificates, short-term exchanges with MIT, course-books from MIT etc?

2. I can see there are a few options to go overseas as part of your Tshinghua degree and I am convinced that MBA students would like to gain as much exposure to different exchange opportunities to broden their outlook

Are there any restrictions on exchanges? I mean what if there are more students than allocated seats. Also how many exchange can a student maximise ?

I see there are short-term exchange with Stanford and long-term exchange with a few others and the options of double MBA as well?

3.I know Tshinghua is well-after but can international students expect some help from career services

4. Are there some financial aid for international students
quote
jintian
I have a few questions from the view of a non-Chinese background American wishing to apply to Tsinghua:

1) For schools in China for international students - it appears the decision between Tsinghua, CEIBS, or Hong Kong Schools (Chinese University of HK or HKUST). I have not seen any reviews from a foreign MBA from Beida and thus assume it is meant strictly for Chinese students. Cost appears to be in Tsinghua's advantage - its only 138K ($20K) compared to $48K to CEIBS compared to $50K+ at HKUST.
Question - If you had a free scholarship to all 3, would you still choose Tsinghua, or would you choose a ranked school like HKUST or CEIBS.

2) Tsinghua is now 50% international students. Some of the complaints I have read about Tsinghua and CEIBS are that the career services for international students are not good. If you have a class of 50% international students, is it easy to get the admin to start putting more resources to help foreigners get employment.

3) Chinese - It appears the people best suited for Tsinghua are ABCs or European born Chinese who speak/read fluently, and also look Chinese. The second best is to have studied undergraduate or graduate Chinese - meaning fluent reading of newspapers, writing pinyin/characters on computer, and mastery of tones and speaking. Thus, you can attend extracurricular activiites no problem and develop relationships with the entire SEM comunity. So why do people who do not fit in these two categories still go to Tsinghua? Are they finding jobs? It seems unlikely you can develop good Chinese while doing an MBA or working in 2 to 3 years (maybe 10 years)- you need 3 years of intense language study or you will be at the most average on your language.

4) Salary - The magic number I read about is 50K or 350,000 RMB a year following graduation which is "Local Plus" - Does this seem right from your knowledge? It seems with 50% international students now at Tsinghua, salary must be talked about more commonly than 4 years ago when there were only 25% international students. Do you know if CEIBS students get paid more? From my research, I think they get paid the same - if so, the Return on investment would make Tsinghua a much better deal since it is $28K cheaper.

5) Career Prospects - Are ABCs/Overseas Chinese from Tsinghua getting recruited by investment banks or international consulting firms. From my research, nobody who is non-Chinese works in large investment banks or large consulting firms in China unless they are sent there from the US or Europe. However, if ABCs from Tsinghua are getting recruited, it shows that career employers are taking you more seriously, and more importantly, your network 3 to 5 years down the line will be a lot better. This allows non-Chinese students better career opportunities as well.
I have a few questions from the view of a non-Chinese background American wishing to apply to Tsinghua:

1) For schools in China for international students - it appears the decision between Tsinghua, CEIBS, or Hong Kong Schools (Chinese University of HK or HKUST). I have not seen any reviews from a foreign MBA from Beida and thus assume it is meant strictly for Chinese students. Cost appears to be in Tsinghua's advantage - its only 138K ($20K) compared to $48K to CEIBS compared to $50K+ at HKUST.
Question - If you had a free scholarship to all 3, would you still choose Tsinghua, or would you choose a ranked school like HKUST or CEIBS.

2) Tsinghua is now 50% international students. Some of the complaints I have read about Tsinghua and CEIBS are that the career services for international students are not good. If you have a class of 50% international students, is it easy to get the admin to start putting more resources to help foreigners get employment.

3) Chinese - It appears the people best suited for Tsinghua are ABCs or European born Chinese who speak/read fluently, and also look Chinese. The second best is to have studied undergraduate or graduate Chinese - meaning fluent reading of newspapers, writing pinyin/characters on computer, and mastery of tones and speaking. Thus, you can attend extracurricular activiites no problem and develop relationships with the entire SEM comunity. So why do people who do not fit in these two categories still go to Tsinghua? Are they finding jobs? It seems unlikely you can develop good Chinese while doing an MBA or working in 2 to 3 years (maybe 10 years)- you need 3 years of intense language study or you will be at the most average on your language.

4) Salary - The magic number I read about is 50K or 350,000 RMB a year following graduation which is "Local Plus" - Does this seem right from your knowledge? It seems with 50% international students now at Tsinghua, salary must be talked about more commonly than 4 years ago when there were only 25% international students. Do you know if CEIBS students get paid more? From my research, I think they get paid the same - if so, the Return on investment would make Tsinghua a much better deal since it is $28K cheaper.

5) Career Prospects - Are ABCs/Overseas Chinese from Tsinghua getting recruited by investment banks or international consulting firms. From my research, nobody who is non-Chinese works in large investment banks or large consulting firms in China unless they are sent there from the US or Europe. However, if ABCs from Tsinghua are getting recruited, it shows that career employers are taking you more seriously, and more importantly, your network 3 to 5 years down the line will be a lot better. This allows non-Chinese students better career opportunities as well.
quote
Hi Ambassadors,

Can you please shed some lights on this particular programme.

1. I can see it is a collaboration betwen Tshinghua and MIT, from a student viewpoint what are the advantages?

Certificates, short-term exchanges with MIT, course-books from MIT etc?

2. I can see there are a few options to go overseas as part of your Tshinghua degree and I am convinced that MBA students would like to gain as much exposure to different exchange opportunities to broden their outlook

Are there any restrictions on exchanges? I mean what if there are more students than allocated seats. Also how many exchange can a student maximise ?

I see there are short-term exchange with Stanford and long-term exchange with a few others and the options of double MBA as well?

3.I know Tshinghua is well-after but can international students expect some help from career services

4. Are there some financial aid for international students


Hi donho199,

Let me try to answer your questions...

1) From a student?s perspective there are many advantages. First of all we share much of the same syllabus (and textbooks) with the MBA program at the MIT Sloan School of Management, upon graduation International MBA students receive a certificate from Sloan as well as affiliate alumni status in addition to their degree from Tsinghua School of Economics and Management. Students at Tsinghua SEM have the option to take a dual degree program (spending the entire 2nd school year at MIT), granted they get accepted into the program. While there aren?t any short-term exchanges to MIT at the moment, the school offers a huge selection of short-term exchange programs (1 semester) to top-ranked schools across the US, Europe and Asia. Finally, students benefit from an active exchange from professors of both schools, MIT professors frequently visit Tsinghua for guest lectures (in fact, they are a core part of the program here) and there are a handful of professors at Tsinghua who act as visiting professor at MIT.

2) You?re definitely right, I believe Tsinghua?s network of partner schools is simply unmatched in China. To answer your question, the school currently offers 2 dual degree programs, one with MIT and the other with HEC in Paris. Though I am not certain (don?t want to give you false information) of the number of seats available for each exchange, these programs are naturally highly sought after amongst both international and domestic students, applicants are selected based on their academic and social performance during their first 2 semesters.
As far as I know there are no official ?restrictions? regarding exchanges, though students are generally not encouraged to apply to schools from their native countries (i.e. if you are American, you are encouraged to look outside the US for your exchange experience), makes sense especially if the intention is to foster a global perspective. Students can only qualify for one exchange program. Though one of the great things about being a student is the time off to travel ☺ Personally, I will apply only for short-term exchanges (i.e. 2 weeks to Chile) as my priority is to improve my China roots, i.e. improve my Chinese and the understanding of the people here as well as look for career opportunities in China, so a lengthy exchange overseas is not really my imperative. Though every student has different objectives they would like to achieve from the program. I hope the perspective helps.

3) Yes, the school has an active career center, holds recruitment events and provides networking opportunities through guest speakers and student clubs, additionally the professional network of professors (and your fellow students/alumni) are also an important source to leverage.

4) Tsinghua offers many international students scholarship opportunities. You may apply for this when you submit your application to the school (form is included in the application package).
<blockquote>Hi Ambassadors,

Can you please shed some lights on this particular programme.

1. I can see it is a collaboration betwen Tshinghua and MIT, from a student viewpoint what are the advantages?

Certificates, short-term exchanges with MIT, course-books from MIT etc?

2. I can see there are a few options to go overseas as part of your Tshinghua degree and I am convinced that MBA students would like to gain as much exposure to different exchange opportunities to broden their outlook

Are there any restrictions on exchanges? I mean what if there are more students than allocated seats. Also how many exchange can a student maximise ?

I see there are short-term exchange with Stanford and long-term exchange with a few others and the options of double MBA as well?

3.I know Tshinghua is well-after but can international students expect some help from career services

4. Are there some financial aid for international students
</blockquote>

Hi donho199,

Let me try to answer your questions...

1) From a student?s perspective there are many advantages. First of all we share much of the same syllabus (and textbooks) with the MBA program at the MIT Sloan School of Management, upon graduation International MBA students receive a certificate from Sloan as well as affiliate alumni status in addition to their degree from Tsinghua School of Economics and Management. Students at Tsinghua SEM have the option to take a dual degree program (spending the entire 2nd school year at MIT), granted they get accepted into the program. While there aren?t any short-term exchanges to MIT at the moment, the school offers a huge selection of short-term exchange programs (1 semester) to top-ranked schools across the US, Europe and Asia. Finally, students benefit from an active exchange from professors of both schools, MIT professors frequently visit Tsinghua for guest lectures (in fact, they are a core part of the program here) and there are a handful of professors at Tsinghua who act as visiting professor at MIT.

2) You?re definitely right, I believe Tsinghua?s network of partner schools is simply unmatched in China. To answer your question, the school currently offers 2 dual degree programs, one with MIT and the other with HEC in Paris. Though I am not certain (don?t want to give you false information) of the number of seats available for each exchange, these programs are naturally highly sought after amongst both international and domestic students, applicants are selected based on their academic and social performance during their first 2 semesters.
As far as I know there are no official ?restrictions? regarding exchanges, though students are generally not encouraged to apply to schools from their native countries (i.e. if you are American, you are encouraged to look outside the US for your exchange experience), makes sense especially if the intention is to foster a global perspective. Students can only qualify for one exchange program. Though one of the great things about being a student is the time off to travel &#9786; Personally, I will apply only for short-term exchanges (i.e. 2 weeks to Chile) as my priority is to improve my China roots, i.e. improve my Chinese and the understanding of the people here as well as look for career opportunities in China, so a lengthy exchange overseas is not really my imperative. Though every student has different objectives they would like to achieve from the program. I hope the perspective helps.

3) Yes, the school has an active career center, holds recruitment events and provides networking opportunities through guest speakers and student clubs, additionally the professional network of professors (and your fellow students/alumni) are also an important source to leverage.

4) Tsinghua offers many international students scholarship opportunities. You may apply for this when you submit your application to the school (form is included in the application package).
quote
I have a few questions from the view of a non-Chinese background American wishing to apply to Tsinghua:

1) For schools in China for international students - it appears the decision between Tsinghua, CEIBS, or Hong Kong Schools (Chinese University of HK or HKUST). I have not seen any reviews from a foreign MBA from Beida and thus assume it is meant strictly for Chinese students. Cost appears to be in Tsinghua's advantage - its only 138K ($20K) compared to $48K to CEIBS compared to $50K+ at HKUST.
Question - If you had a free scholarship to all 3, would you still choose Tsinghua, or would you choose a ranked school like HKUST or CEIBS.

2) Tsinghua is now 50% international students. Some of the complaints I have read about Tsinghua and CEIBS are that the career services for international students are not good. If you have a class of 50% international students, is it easy to get the admin to start putting more resources to help foreigners get employment.

3) Chinese - It appears the people best suited for Tsinghua are ABCs or European born Chinese who speak/read fluently, and also look Chinese. The second best is to have studied undergraduate or graduate Chinese - meaning fluent reading of newspapers, writing pinyin/characters on computer, and mastery of tones and speaking. Thus, you can attend extracurricular activiites no problem and develop relationships with the entire SEM comunity. So why do people who do not fit in these two categories still go to Tsinghua? Are they finding jobs? It seems unlikely you can develop good Chinese while doing an MBA or working in 2 to 3 years (maybe 10 years)- you need 3 years of intense language study or you will be at the most average on your language.

4) Salary - The magic number I read about is 50K or 350,000 RMB a year following graduation which is "Local Plus" - Does this seem right from your knowledge? It seems with 50% international students now at Tsinghua, salary must be talked about more commonly than 4 years ago when there were only 25% international students. Do you know if CEIBS students get paid more? From my research, I think they get paid the same - if so, the Return on investment would make Tsinghua a much better deal since it is $28K cheaper.

5) Career Prospects - Are ABCs/Overseas Chinese from Tsinghua getting recruited by investment banks or international consulting firms. From my research, nobody who is non-Chinese works in large investment banks or large consulting firms in China unless they are sent there from the US or Europe. However, if ABCs from Tsinghua are getting recruited, it shows that career employers are taking you more seriously, and more importantly, your network 3 to 5 years down the line will be a lot better. This allows non-Chinese students better career opportunities as well.


Hi JinTian,

Hope I can answer your questions...

1) Yes, I would still choose Tsinghua.
OK, while I am biased in my opinion, I am very confident that Tsinghua offers the better prestige upon graduation and a more relevant Chinese experience. From my time here, I noticed that if you tell anyone in China (and I mean anyone) that you are a Tsinghua graduate, you are automatically viewed in a different light. I do not intend to knock the programs you mentioned, they are great programs in their own right (i.e. CEIBS and HKUST are both prominently ranked in the FT rankings), but if your intention is to capitalize on the China opportunity (Hong Kong cannot offer you relevant China experience), then Tsinghua should be your choice. For more perspective on this matter, you can check out an interview find-mba.com did with one of my classmates, the link is:
http://blog.find-mba.com/2010/01/25/thomas-pan-tsinghu/

2) There are resources in place to help internationals find jobs ? including a career center, networking events, student/alumni/professor networks ? with an expanding base of international students the resources put into this increases every year, and every year they are getting better at it.
However, I will be frank here, as an international students I do not rely solely on the school to find me jobs, I would use them as a source of information, and the school?s prestigious name helps to open many doors for me. At the end of the day, much of China is about establishing relationships and networking, and that is the most effective way of landing an ideal job, whether you are international or local.

3) We have students here currently (non-Chinese background and zero Chinese foundation) from Germany, Italy, India and US who managed to speak and understand Chinese in a matter of months. While reading and writing is more difficult and will undoubtedly take you a longer time, when you are surrounded (and forced) to speak and listen to Chinese everyday (vs. if you lived in the US), you will learn the language very quickly. The program offers Chinese classes for the 1st semester, and a good way would be to supplement this with language partners or tutors during your 2 years at Tsinghua (or an intensive course during the semester breaks as I intend). Fret not, the local students love to teach Chinese to and interact with a foreigner! Chinese is a complex language, but becoming fluent is not as daunting a task as it appears.
In terms of finding jobs, fluency in Chinese is obviously more desirable for employers in China, but I?m under the impression that most of the foreigners upon graduation are expecting to work for an MNC rather than a local Chinese firm or State Owned Enterprise, so they can still combine English with Chinese professionally.

4) I frankly cannot offer much insight in terms of the salary discussion as I am in my first year and have not really began looking for work. The average salary figure can be potentially misleading as salary can differ drastically, i.e. you have graduates going back to their old firms at senior positions (as with many of our Korean or European students) as well as those entering the public sector or State Owned Enterprises in China. While you obviously cannot expect US level pay in China (different living standards/costs of living and pay scales). My perspective is it is always hard to find a job right out of school, and I look at the China opportunity as an investment into the future, a degree at Tsinghua offers me China expertise that many employers are willing to pay a premium for, if not now then in the future.

5) I think ethnicity is not really the issue here, if you are qualified, and are proficient in Chinese I think the chances for employment is equal is not more advantageous for the non-Chinese. Every year our professors recommend a handful of students to international investment banks and consulting firms, and career opportunities at these institutions continue to improve every year.
<blockquote>I have a few questions from the view of a non-Chinese background American wishing to apply to Tsinghua:

1) For schools in China for international students - it appears the decision between Tsinghua, CEIBS, or Hong Kong Schools (Chinese University of HK or HKUST). I have not seen any reviews from a foreign MBA from Beida and thus assume it is meant strictly for Chinese students. Cost appears to be in Tsinghua's advantage - its only 138K ($20K) compared to $48K to CEIBS compared to $50K+ at HKUST.
Question - If you had a free scholarship to all 3, would you still choose Tsinghua, or would you choose a ranked school like HKUST or CEIBS.

2) Tsinghua is now 50% international students. Some of the complaints I have read about Tsinghua and CEIBS are that the career services for international students are not good. If you have a class of 50% international students, is it easy to get the admin to start putting more resources to help foreigners get employment.

3) Chinese - It appears the people best suited for Tsinghua are ABCs or European born Chinese who speak/read fluently, and also look Chinese. The second best is to have studied undergraduate or graduate Chinese - meaning fluent reading of newspapers, writing pinyin/characters on computer, and mastery of tones and speaking. Thus, you can attend extracurricular activiites no problem and develop relationships with the entire SEM comunity. So why do people who do not fit in these two categories still go to Tsinghua? Are they finding jobs? It seems unlikely you can develop good Chinese while doing an MBA or working in 2 to 3 years (maybe 10 years)- you need 3 years of intense language study or you will be at the most average on your language.

4) Salary - The magic number I read about is 50K or 350,000 RMB a year following graduation which is "Local Plus" - Does this seem right from your knowledge? It seems with 50% international students now at Tsinghua, salary must be talked about more commonly than 4 years ago when there were only 25% international students. Do you know if CEIBS students get paid more? From my research, I think they get paid the same - if so, the Return on investment would make Tsinghua a much better deal since it is $28K cheaper.

5) Career Prospects - Are ABCs/Overseas Chinese from Tsinghua getting recruited by investment banks or international consulting firms. From my research, nobody who is non-Chinese works in large investment banks or large consulting firms in China unless they are sent there from the US or Europe. However, if ABCs from Tsinghua are getting recruited, it shows that career employers are taking you more seriously, and more importantly, your network 3 to 5 years down the line will be a lot better. This allows non-Chinese students better career opportunities as well.</blockquote>

Hi JinTian,

Hope I can answer your questions...

1) Yes, I would still choose Tsinghua.
OK, while I am biased in my opinion, I am very confident that Tsinghua offers the better prestige upon graduation and a more relevant Chinese experience. From my time here, I noticed that if you tell anyone in China (and I mean anyone) that you are a Tsinghua graduate, you are automatically viewed in a different light. I do not intend to knock the programs you mentioned, they are great programs in their own right (i.e. CEIBS and HKUST are both prominently ranked in the FT rankings), but if your intention is to capitalize on the China opportunity (Hong Kong cannot offer you relevant China experience), then Tsinghua should be your choice. For more perspective on this matter, you can check out an interview find-mba.com did with one of my classmates, the link is:
http://blog.find-mba.com/2010/01/25/thomas-pan-tsinghu/

2) There are resources in place to help internationals find jobs ? including a career center, networking events, student/alumni/professor networks ? with an expanding base of international students the resources put into this increases every year, and every year they are getting better at it.
However, I will be frank here, as an international students I do not rely solely on the school to find me jobs, I would use them as a source of information, and the school?s prestigious name helps to open many doors for me. At the end of the day, much of China is about establishing relationships and networking, and that is the most effective way of landing an ideal job, whether you are international or local.

3) We have students here currently (non-Chinese background and zero Chinese foundation) from Germany, Italy, India and US who managed to speak and understand Chinese in a matter of months. While reading and writing is more difficult and will undoubtedly take you a longer time, when you are surrounded (and forced) to speak and listen to Chinese everyday (vs. if you lived in the US), you will learn the language very quickly. The program offers Chinese classes for the 1st semester, and a good way would be to supplement this with language partners or tutors during your 2 years at Tsinghua (or an intensive course during the semester breaks as I intend). Fret not, the local students love to teach Chinese to and interact with a foreigner! Chinese is a complex language, but becoming fluent is not as daunting a task as it appears.
In terms of finding jobs, fluency in Chinese is obviously more desirable for employers in China, but I?m under the impression that most of the foreigners upon graduation are expecting to work for an MNC rather than a local Chinese firm or State Owned Enterprise, so they can still combine English with Chinese professionally.

4) I frankly cannot offer much insight in terms of the salary discussion as I am in my first year and have not really began looking for work. The average salary figure can be potentially misleading as salary can differ drastically, i.e. you have graduates going back to their old firms at senior positions (as with many of our Korean or European students) as well as those entering the public sector or State Owned Enterprises in China. While you obviously cannot expect US level pay in China (different living standards/costs of living and pay scales). My perspective is it is always hard to find a job right out of school, and I look at the China opportunity as an investment into the future, a degree at Tsinghua offers me China expertise that many employers are willing to pay a premium for, if not now then in the future.

5) I think ethnicity is not really the issue here, if you are qualified, and are proficient in Chinese I think the chances for employment is equal is not more advantageous for the non-Chinese. Every year our professors recommend a handful of students to international investment banks and consulting firms, and career opportunities at these institutions continue to improve every year.
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