CEIBS vs. Tsinghua IMBA


Polarbear

Good day everyone.

I have been accepted by both of these schools, and I need help in getting a better understanding of these schools.
I know that they are both top MBAs, but as mentioned in the posts I've been reading on these boards, there are many contingencies on what makes one more suitable than the other for me.

A little background: I am an American born Chinese, and I am fully fluent in Mandarin. I am fascinated by the growth of China and plan to establish myself and stay in China for at least the next 10 years, but I am always open to opportunities.
I am hoping to do general management for big firms, whether for local or MNCs (again, I am open to opportunities).

A lot of the posts I've read on this forum on the matter are quite a few years old, and I believe a lot has changed in that time.

From my limited interactions with the staff and some students, I feel that I have a better fit with CEIBS. This is valuable because of the emphasis on connections in business.
However, from a prestige standpoint, I believe Tsinghua has an advantage. Every Chinese person I have ever talked to knows Tsinghua, but no one I knew prior to doing research on schools had heard of CEIBS. My pool of Chinese friends include recent immigrants, Master's graduates, PhD students, as well as working people. Of course, I suppose CEIBS is specialized and people outside of business professions would not have exposure.
As an afterthought, Tsinghua also has the MIT connection, while CEIBS is a standalone entity.

At first, I had ranked CEIBS higher than Tsinghua in my mind before completing my applications. CEIBS was actually ranked on FT, a lot of information was accessible, and a family friend had gone there and become highly successful (although he did finance, which is in a naturally higher income bracket). I can't get an objective response from my friend, because to him, his school is the best in China and the world (I don't blame him for having school pride).
After reading these boards, I have seen a lot of comments saying that CEIBS is "overrated."

I only have one chance to make this choice, and I would like to have all the information possible.

This is where I am currently, and I humbly ask for your thoughts.

Thank you.

Good day everyone.

I have been accepted by both of these schools, and I need help in getting a better understanding of these schools.
I know that they are both top MBAs, but as mentioned in the posts I've been reading on these boards, there are many contingencies on what makes one more suitable than the other for me.

A little background: I am an American born Chinese, and I am fully fluent in Mandarin. I am fascinated by the growth of China and plan to establish myself and stay in China for at least the next 10 years, but I am always open to opportunities.
I am hoping to do general management for big firms, whether for local or MNCs (again, I am open to opportunities).

A lot of the posts I've read on this forum on the matter are quite a few years old, and I believe a lot has changed in that time.

From my limited interactions with the staff and some students, I feel that I have a better fit with CEIBS. This is valuable because of the emphasis on connections in business.
However, from a prestige standpoint, I believe Tsinghua has an advantage. Every Chinese person I have ever talked to knows Tsinghua, but no one I knew prior to doing research on schools had heard of CEIBS. My pool of Chinese friends include recent immigrants, Master's graduates, PhD students, as well as working people. Of course, I suppose CEIBS is specialized and people outside of business professions would not have exposure.
As an afterthought, Tsinghua also has the MIT connection, while CEIBS is a standalone entity.

At first, I had ranked CEIBS higher than Tsinghua in my mind before completing my applications. CEIBS was actually ranked on FT, a lot of information was accessible, and a family friend had gone there and become highly successful (although he did finance, which is in a naturally higher income bracket). I can't get an objective response from my friend, because to him, his school is the best in China and the world (I don't blame him for having school pride).
After reading these boards, I have seen a lot of comments saying that CEIBS is "overrated."

I only have one chance to make this choice, and I would like to have all the information possible.

This is where I am currently, and I humbly ask for your thoughts.

Thank you.
quote
TonyC

Congrat's Polarbear!

Both Schools are excellent.

You made the right choice to choose schools in China as opposed to a place like Hong Kong because you will get the best on the ground experience in China itself.

Tsinghua is a top school but its business programs are not as well known as its other programs. It has had to partner with other schools because it is relatively new to the game. The MIT arrangement started to help train the teachers at Tsinghua. One way to confirm this is to look at the Faculty profiles and backgrounds to get a sense of who you will be taught by.

CEIBS has a stronger business background. It has also expanded across China. Look at the size of the classes for example. Also look at the profiles of the Faculty. You can see quite a difference. They also bring in international "stars" to teach certain courses.

My take (and I am sure lots of people may differ) is that Tsinghua has a long historical reputation which will not do you wrong. But the teaching quality and Alumni network at CEIBS may get you a lot further in business if you are staying in China.

Congrat's Polarbear!

Both Schools are excellent.

You made the right choice to choose schools in China as opposed to a place like Hong Kong because you will get the best on the ground experience in China itself.

Tsinghua is a top school but its business programs are not as well known as its other programs. It has had to partner with other schools because it is relatively new to the game. The MIT arrangement started to help train the teachers at Tsinghua. One way to confirm this is to look at the Faculty profiles and backgrounds to get a sense of who you will be taught by.

CEIBS has a stronger business background. It has also expanded across China. Look at the size of the classes for example. Also look at the profiles of the Faculty. You can see quite a difference. They also bring in international "stars" to teach certain courses.

My take (and I am sure lots of people may differ) is that Tsinghua has a long historical reputation which will not do you wrong. But the teaching quality and Alumni network at CEIBS may get you a lot further in business if you are staying in China.



quote
ezra

I think what you're seeing is that these schools have varying reputations inside and outside China. CEIBS, by its nature (it is called "China Europe International Business School,") is a more internationally-focused and outward-looking school. I'd say it's also more in the mold of western schools and businesses.

Tsinghua (the university) has more visibility in China, if only because it's been around for so long. The business school there has partnerships with MIT - Sloan and INSEAD, but for whatever reason it lacks CEIBS' reputation on a global scale. This might change in a few years as these partnerships and the school's other international ventures take root.

My suggestion would be to connect with the career services and alumni networks for each school and see where former students are now, and how those stories line up with your goals. My guess would be that if you are interested in staying in China, Tsinghua would be preferable, but if you want to land elsewhere eventually, CEIBS would be the better option.

Congrat's Polarbear!

Both Schools are excellent.

You made the right choice to choose schools in China as opposed to a place like Hong Kong because you will get the best on the ground experience in China itself.

Tsinghua is a top school but its business programs are not as well known as its other programs. It has had to partner with other schools because it is relatively new to the game. The MIT arrangement started to help train the teachers at Tsinghua. One way to confirm this is to look at the Faculty profiles and backgrounds to get a sense of who you will be taught by.

CEIBS has a stronger business background. It has also expanded across China. Look at the size of the classes for example. Also look at the profiles of the Faculty. You can see quite a difference. They also bring in international "stars" to teach certain courses.

My take (and I am sure lots of people may differ) is that Tsinghua has a long historical reputation which will not do you wrong. But the teaching quality and Alumni network at CEIBS may get you a lot further in business if you are staying in China.


I think what you're seeing is that these schools have varying reputations inside and outside China. CEIBS, by its nature (it is called "China Europe International Business School,") is a more internationally-focused and outward-looking school. I'd say it's also more in the mold of western schools and businesses.

Tsinghua (the university) has more visibility in China, if only because it's been around for so long. The business school there has partnerships with MIT - Sloan and INSEAD, but for whatever reason it lacks CEIBS' reputation on a global scale. This might change in a few years as these partnerships and the school's other international ventures take root.

My suggestion would be to connect with the career services and alumni networks for each school and see where former students are now, and how those stories line up with your goals. My guess would be that if you are interested in staying in China, Tsinghua would be preferable, but if you want to land elsewhere eventually, CEIBS would be the better option.

<blockquote>Congrat's Polarbear!

Both Schools are excellent.

You made the right choice to choose schools in China as opposed to a place like Hong Kong because you will get the best on the ground experience in China itself.

Tsinghua is a top school but its business programs are not as well known as its other programs. It has had to partner with other schools because it is relatively new to the game. The MIT arrangement started to help train the teachers at Tsinghua. One way to confirm this is to look at the Faculty profiles and backgrounds to get a sense of who you will be taught by.

CEIBS has a stronger business background. It has also expanded across China. Look at the size of the classes for example. Also look at the profiles of the Faculty. You can see quite a difference. They also bring in international "stars" to teach certain courses.

My take (and I am sure lots of people may differ) is that Tsinghua has a long historical reputation which will not do you wrong. But the teaching quality and Alumni network at CEIBS may get you a lot further in business if you are staying in China.



</blockquote>
quote
strekstar

If you speak fluent Chinese, Tsinghua might be give you more networking options with Chinese. You'll have opportunities to take classes in Chinese from more well known professors in China and you can better network with both Full-time, EMBA and Part-time MBA students at Tsinghua. Five years ago, the Part-time MBA at Tsinghua consisted of students from Chinese companies you never heard of. Today, Chinese companies have gotten stronger and the Part-time MBAs are now working for innovative start-ups and MNCs. The question you need to ask yourself is: does the networking really matter? Although networking with Chinese students at Tsinghua is better than CEIBS, foreigners tend to network better among themselves than with Chinese (ie - its more comfortable for foreigners to meet at a bar after work, than do meet for a lunch on Sunday which Chinese alumni often do).

CEIBS has its strengths - it is often characterized as the MBA for the foreigner who wants China experience, but is hoping to get a job in Hong Kong, Singapore, or country of origin, mainly for better pay and a more stable career option. Climbing the promotion ladder in China is not fun. Sales in China is sketchy and can be very difficult to understand. If you don't understand (meaning manage a group of 20 sales reps) the sales channels, how can you be a VP for company here? Having said that, many graduates go on to utilize Shanghai as a haven for starting their own business. One of their most famous is Mark Secchia, Founder of Sherpas. Mark understood that by selling to Shanghai's 200,000+ foreigners as a base, he could gradually move to the local base. As a result, foreigners often consider Shanghai as the best city to work in the mainland, since there is a support network of other foreigners (whereas BJ, 30% of the foreigners work in embassies, 30% are students - and thus are quite removed from the private sector)

For both schools, getting a job at prestigious consulting firms or investment banks, even with fluent Chinese, are difficult unless you went to an Ivy league undergraduate school. You're competing with Chinese who went to Wharton and Harvard (Stanford Chinese MBA tend to stay in US or do startups).

I would recommend you think about the two years you will be at both schools and try to think what you could accomplish in those years. What internship would be ideal? What type of club or organization could you serve in a leadership role? Could you get published? Can you win a business competition? What network do you want: Chinese or Foreign? Beijing or Shanghai?

If you speak fluent Chinese, Tsinghua might be give you more networking options with Chinese. You'll have opportunities to take classes in Chinese from more well known professors in China and you can better network with both Full-time, EMBA and Part-time MBA students at Tsinghua. Five years ago, the Part-time MBA at Tsinghua consisted of students from Chinese companies you never heard of. Today, Chinese companies have gotten stronger and the Part-time MBAs are now working for innovative start-ups and MNCs. The question you need to ask yourself is: does the networking really matter? Although networking with Chinese students at Tsinghua is better than CEIBS, foreigners tend to network better among themselves than with Chinese (ie - its more comfortable for foreigners to meet at a bar after work, than do meet for a lunch on Sunday which Chinese alumni often do).

CEIBS has its strengths - it is often characterized as the MBA for the foreigner who wants China experience, but is hoping to get a job in Hong Kong, Singapore, or country of origin, mainly for better pay and a more stable career option. Climbing the promotion ladder in China is not fun. Sales in China is sketchy and can be very difficult to understand. If you don't understand (meaning manage a group of 20 sales reps) the sales channels, how can you be a VP for company here? Having said that, many graduates go on to utilize Shanghai as a haven for starting their own business. One of their most famous is Mark Secchia, Founder of Sherpas. Mark understood that by selling to Shanghai's 200,000+ foreigners as a base, he could gradually move to the local base. As a result, foreigners often consider Shanghai as the best city to work in the mainland, since there is a support network of other foreigners (whereas BJ, 30% of the foreigners work in embassies, 30% are students - and thus are quite removed from the private sector)

For both schools, getting a job at prestigious consulting firms or investment banks, even with fluent Chinese, are difficult unless you went to an Ivy league undergraduate school. You're competing with Chinese who went to Wharton and Harvard (Stanford Chinese MBA tend to stay in US or do startups).

I would recommend you think about the two years you will be at both schools and try to think what you could accomplish in those years. What internship would be ideal? What type of club or organization could you serve in a leadership role? Could you get published? Can you win a business competition? What network do you want: Chinese or Foreign? Beijing or Shanghai?
quote
Polarbear

Thanks everyone.

I have ultimately decided to attend CEIBS.

From my research, I have concluded that it is not only the higher ranked school, but it is higher regarded by businesses, especially the MNCs.

For a school like CEIBS to come into being only 17 years ago and be where it's at today, competing with the likes of Oxford's SBS and Cornell, really impresses me. The trajectory for future success seems much higher.

Tsinghua is still great, but to have only come so far despite being able to rely on its old prestigious brand, is a bit worrisome to me.

The last thing that impressed me most about CEIBS is their ability to reach out and have a pulse on the world. Not only is their marketing ability very strong, but they have people handling public relations. One of their representatives contacted me after seeing my post from the forum and was very informative and helpful. Their proactive style and large budget give me confidence that the CEIBS brand will become far more famous in the next decade, and will one day definitely become a top ten world ranked b-school.

Thanks everyone.

I have ultimately decided to attend CEIBS.

From my research, I have concluded that it is not only the higher ranked school, but it is higher regarded by businesses, especially the MNCs.

For a school like CEIBS to come into being only 17 years ago and be where it's at today, competing with the likes of Oxford's SBS and Cornell, really impresses me. The trajectory for future success seems much higher.

Tsinghua is still great, but to have only come so far despite being able to rely on its old prestigious brand, is a bit worrisome to me.

The last thing that impressed me most about CEIBS is their ability to reach out and have a pulse on the world. Not only is their marketing ability very strong, but they have people handling public relations. One of their representatives contacted me after seeing my post from the forum and was very informative and helpful. Their proactive style and large budget give me confidence that the CEIBS brand will become far more famous in the next decade, and will one day definitely become a top ten world ranked b-school.
quote
Duncan

CEIBS is actually older than the Saïd Business School. SBS was founded in 1996, and CEIBS moved to Shanghai in 1994.

CEIBS is actually older than the Saïd Business School. SBS was founded in 1996, and CEIBS moved to Shanghai in 1994.
quote
Polarbear

CEIBS is actually older than the Saïd Business School. SBS was founded in 1996, and CEIBS moved to Shanghai in 1994.


CEIBS is still more impressive to me because it didn't have the old prestige of the Oxford brand to help it become what it is today. Also, I never said CEIBS is younger than SBS. I apologize for the confusion if I wasn't clear. I was thinking of the FT rankings, where CEIBS is slightly below SBS this year (but tied in its 3year average rank) and a rank or two above Cornell.

CEIBS doesn't have the baggage that comes with being a part of an old prestige school. They are progressive and unashamed to aggressively build their brand and recruit the best professors that money can buy, and ultimately, the best classmates and alumni for business in China.

This topic was about CEIBS vs. Tsinghua, after all.

<blockquote>CEIBS is actually older than the Saïd Business School. SBS was founded in 1996, and CEIBS moved to Shanghai in 1994.</blockquote>

CEIBS is still more impressive to me because it didn't have the old prestige of the Oxford brand to help it become what it is today. Also, I never said CEIBS is younger than SBS. I apologize for the confusion if I wasn't clear. I was thinking of the FT rankings, where CEIBS is slightly below SBS this year (but tied in its 3year average rank) and a rank or two above Cornell.

CEIBS doesn't have the baggage that comes with being a part of an old prestige school. They are progressive and unashamed to aggressively build their brand and recruit the best professors that money can buy, and ultimately, the best classmates and alumni for business in China.

This topic was about CEIBS vs. Tsinghua, after all.
quote
ezra

I just want to say congratulations, Polarbear - I'm sure you'll be happy with CEIBS. If you can, please stop by once in a while to let us know how your course is going.

I just want to say congratulations, Polarbear - I'm sure you'll be happy with CEIBS. If you can, please stop by once in a while to let us know how your course is going.
quote
Polarbear

I just want to say congratulations, Polarbear - I'm sure you'll be happy with CEIBS. If you can, please stop by once in a while to let us know how your course is going.


Thank you Ezra. Your posts throughout this forum and in this topic really helped me.
If this forum had reputation, I'd give you a bunch.

<blockquote>I just want to say congratulations, Polarbear - I'm sure you'll be happy with CEIBS. If you can, please stop by once in a while to let us know how your course is going.</blockquote>

Thank you Ezra. Your posts throughout this forum and in this topic really helped me.
If this forum had reputation, I'd give you a bunch.
quote

I'm Chinese, and CEIBS is the best business school in China.
Tsinghua MBA, I doubt the quality.

I'm Chinese, and CEIBS is the best business school in China.
Tsinghua MBA, I doubt the quality.
quote
ezra

Tsinghua MBA, I doubt the quality.

Care to elaborate? Its placement stats look pretty good, and it has good relationships with mainland employers and now some reputable international business schools like MIT Sloan. Seems pretty legitimate to me.

<blockquote>Tsinghua MBA, I doubt the quality.</blockquote>
Care to elaborate? Its placement stats look pretty good, and it has good relationships with mainland employers and now some reputable international business schools like MIT Sloan. Seems pretty legitimate to me.
quote
Duncan

Well, think of the discussion with snowbear on another thread, I think some people feel that the English-language programmes at school in the PRC are less selective than the flagship programmes. Academically it will be great, but the student quality and network power might be better on the Chinese programmes.

Well, think of the discussion with snowbear on another thread, I think some people feel that the English-language programmes at school in the PRC are less selective than the flagship programmes. Academically it will be great, but the student quality and network power might be better on the Chinese programmes.
quote
Pietro

I am considering to submit my application to the above mentioned schools and this post was really helpful to me, thanks to everyone for the contribution.
What about the Fudan IMBA (also in collaboration with MIT)? How would you rate that in comparison with CEIBS and Tsinghua?

I am considering to submit my application to the above mentioned schools and this post was really helpful to me, thanks to everyone for the contribution.
What about the Fudan IMBA (also in collaboration with MIT)? How would you rate that in comparison with CEIBS and Tsinghua?
quote
Duncan

Hi Pietro,

As with your questions yesterday, there's a lot of discussion on these programmes already, so please read over the general discussions and come back with specific questions. Use the search and, to start, take a read through:
http://www.find-mba.com/boardsearch/65/q/ceibs+tsinghua+fudan
In particular, I learnt a lot from this exchange between Ezra and Snowbear:
http://www.find-mba.com/board/24403/1

Hi Pietro,

As with your questions yesterday, there's a lot of discussion on these programmes already, so please read over the general discussions and come back with specific questions. Use the search and, to start, take a read through:
http://www.find-mba.com/boardsearch/65/q/ceibs+tsinghua+fudan
In particular, I learnt a lot from this exchange between Ezra and Snowbear:
http://www.find-mba.com/board/24403/1
quote
Pietro

Thanks for the advice! I am reading that right now. I agree my yesterday post is redundant, I will just join one of the ongoing discussions if I have any specific question.

Thanks for the advice! I am reading that right now. I agree my yesterday post is redundant, I will just join one of the ongoing discussions if I have any specific question.
quote

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