MBA Choice For Career Pivot/Europe as An American


Hi everyone, I’m an American and just got into the full time MBA programs at IE, Bocconi and
ESADE. Looking to pivot careers after 12 years in CPG/beauty and medical device marketing to Consulting, Social Impact or Tech and ideally looking to stay in Europe or Australia post-grad: France, UK or Netherlands due to salary/quality of life ratio. Assuming similar aid
packages, which school would be best to aid in these goals? I'd love any thoughts and also experiences re: school culture/vibe too.

Hi everyone, I’m an American and just got into the full time MBA programs at IE, Bocconi and
ESADE. Looking to pivot careers after 12 years in CPG/beauty and medical device marketing to Consulting, Social Impact or Tech and ideally looking to stay in Europe or Australia post-grad: France, UK or Netherlands due to salary/quality of life ratio. Assuming similar aid
packages, which school would be best to aid in these goals? I'd love any thoughts and also experiences re: school culture/vibe too.
quote
Duncan

Study in the country where you want to work. These schools do not fit your goals. 

Study in the country where you want to work. These schools do not fit your goals. 
quote

I also was accepted into IESEG’s Leadership and Coding MBA program, but HEC and INSEAD’s programs would have a 5 week application process, which would surpass the time needed to let the other programs know/reserve a spot with my scholarships. Would doing an exchange program in a country of my desired future residence aid at all? I’ve kept on hearing to go to the best ranked school you get into vs the country you want to work in debate and unsure what to make of that. IESEG seems to be decently known in France but not so much outside of it, which is a slight concern if I don’t gain full French fluency to work in France post graduation, versus it seems the other schools seem to be better known throughout Europe?

I also was accepted into IESEG’s Leadership and Coding MBA program, but HEC and INSEAD’s programs would have a 5 week application process, which would surpass the time needed to let the other programs know/reserve a spot with my scholarships. Would doing an exchange program in a country of my desired future residence aid at all? I’ve kept on hearing to go to the best ranked school you get into vs the country you want to work in debate and unsure what to make of that. IESEG seems to be decently known in France but not so much outside of it, which is a slight concern if I don’t gain full French fluency to work in France post graduation, versus it seems the other schools seem to be better known throughout Europe?
quote
Duncan

You won't learn French studying in an English language campus.  Study where you want to work to benefit from visas for local graduates. 

You won't learn French studying in an English language campus.  Study where you want to work to benefit from visas for local graduates. 
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If I do HHL in Germany or IESEG in France, assuming IE or ESADE won’t help me get a job in any of the countries I’d like to work in (or even in Spain due to their lack of post-student work visa), as those programs are also in English, is it not even worth it?

If I do HHL in Germany or IESEG in France, assuming IE or ESADE won’t help me get a job in any of the countries I’d like to work in (or even in Spain due to their lack of post-student work visa), as those programs are also in English, is it not even worth it?
quote
Duncan

See the post linked on my profile page called Do you need to speak the local language.  If they don't speak the business language, what work can a foreigner get in your country?

See the post linked on my profile page called Do you need to speak the local language.  If they don't speak the business language, what work can a foreigner get in your country?
quote

See the post linked on my profile page called Do you need to speak the local language.  If they don't speak the business language, what work can a foreigner get in your country?


I should mention I’m bilingual with Spanish, but as salaries are significantly less in Spain than Germany, Netherlands, Switzerland, UK et al. (more English speaking EU countries), I was likely looking at roles in those countries to pay off my MBA loans fastest. Both programs boast that international students make up the majority of their student bodies and don’t seek placement in Spain that much and primarily seek employment in countries I mentioned and do so successfully (high 80%+). What do you make of that? Admissions biz dev pitch? Given both are in the roughly top ten of international mobility, I was curious as to your take. Appreciate your wisdom as always.

[Edited by Andrew Roig on Jul 17, 2022]

[quote]See the post linked on my profile page called Do you need to speak the local language.&nbsp; If they don't speak the business language, what work can a foreigner get in your country? [/quote]<br><br>I should mention I’m bilingual with Spanish, but as salaries are significantly less in Spain than Germany, Netherlands, Switzerland, UK et al. (more English speaking EU countries), I was likely looking at roles in those countries to pay off my MBA loans fastest. Both programs boast that international students make up the majority of their student bodies and don’t seek placement in Spain that much and primarily seek employment in countries I mentioned and do so successfully (high 80%+). What do you make of that? Admissions biz dev pitch? Given both are in the roughly top ten of international mobility, I was curious as to your take. Appreciate your wisdom as always.
quote
Duncan

The post I mentioned addresses the EU countries. Why would someone hire you rather than someone who also spoke German or Dutch? European schools are good for mobility because Euorpeans firms can hire arivees from diaspora and former colonies already speaking our business languages, as well as those who learn it in Europe.  Spanish firms might hire from Spanish schools for other countries, but they also favour people who speak the language of the target country. 

The post I mentioned addresses the EU countries. Why would someone hire you rather than someone who also spoke German or Dutch? European schools are good for mobility because Euorpeans firms can hire arivees from diaspora and former colonies already speaking our business languages, as well as those who learn it in Europe.&nbsp; Spanish firms might hire from Spanish schools for other countries, but they also favour people who speak the language of the target country.&nbsp;
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Also genuine question- if employers in any country in Europe anywhere I’d like to go wouldn’t hire me regardless of my student visa because of not having native fluency in their local language despite English being the most commonly used EU language, is it even worth trying to get a degree abroad if one is trying to relocate and pivot, especially given the Brexit uncertainty and reluctance of UK sponsors even with the visa revamp for non-EU?

The post I mentioned addresses the EU countries. Why would someone hire you rather than someone who also spoke German or Dutch? European schools are good for mobility because Euorpeans firms can hire arivees from diaspora and former colonies already speaking our business languages, as well as those who learn it in Europe.  Spanish firms might hire from Spanish schools for other countries, but they also favour people who speak the language of the target country. 

[Edited by Andrew Roig on Jul 19, 2022]

Also genuine question- if employers in any country in Europe anywhere I’d like to go wouldn’t hire me regardless of my student visa because of not having native fluency in their local language despite English being the most commonly used EU language, is it even worth trying to get a degree abroad if one is trying to relocate and pivot, especially given the Brexit uncertainty and reluctance of UK sponsors even with the visa revamp for non-EU?<br><br>[quote]The post I mentioned addresses the EU countries. Why would someone hire you rather than someone who also spoke German or Dutch? European schools are good for mobility because Euorpeans firms can hire arivees from diaspora and former colonies already speaking our business languages, as well as those who learn it in Europe.&nbsp; Spanish firms might hire from Spanish schools for other countries, but they also favour people who speak the language of the target country.&nbsp; [/quote]
quote
Duncan

One part of this is supply and demand. Labour shortages in the EU are most serious in Czechia, Germany, Poland, Malta and The Netherlands. Spain has the highest unemployment in the EU and Latin America offers a huge source of talent. 

 The best MBA opportunities in Germany are in the 50 miles either side of the Rhine (Stuttgart, Mannheim, Frankfurt, Koblenz, Cologne, Düsseldorf, etc) and in Munich. That's why the best German schools, and the German programmes of RSM, IESE and Kellogg, are established in the core cities of the West German economy. 
ESCP moved from Düsseldorf to Berlin because (a) the conservative-led city council offered amazing real estate and rapid accreditation to tempt a business-minded business school in the city [business education in Germany was very oriented on macroeconomics and social responsibility] and (b) that's where Grandes Ecoles students want to spend a semester. The Berlin campus has been heavily French in composition for much of its life. Within Germany, Berlin and Bremen have the highest unemployment (worse than Italy, and almost three times higher than the US average). These are very attractive cities to young people, and many foreign students will take a double discount in salaries (one for weak German, and the other for the high supply of graduates) to work there.

And so the other element of this is to increase demand for you, personally. That means career strategy (turning an amorphous aspiration into a career goal). Christine Menges, head of career services at WHU, wrote this great book: https://www.routledge.com/The-Essential-Guide-to-Studying-Abroad-From-Success-in-the-Classroom-to/Klassen-Menges/p/book/9780367235161 The section on The Triple M Career Roadmap: Me, Market and Match is really helpful. 

One part of this is supply and demand. Labour shortages in the EU are most serious in Czechia, Germany, Poland, Malta and The Netherlands. Spain has the highest unemployment in the EU and Latin America offers a huge source of talent.&nbsp;<br><br>&nbsp;The best MBA opportunities in Germany are in the 50 miles either side of the Rhine (Stuttgart, Mannheim, Frankfurt, Koblenz, Cologne, Düsseldorf, etc) and in Munich. That's why the best German schools, and the German programmes of RSM, IESE and Kellogg, are established in the core cities of the West German economy.&nbsp;<div><br></div><div>ESCP moved from Düsseldorf to Berlin because (a) the conservative-led city council offered amazing real estate and rapid accreditation to tempt a business-minded business school in the city [business education in Germany was very oriented on macroeconomics and social responsibility] and (b) that's where Grandes Ecoles students want to spend a semester. The Berlin campus has been heavily French in composition for much of its life.&nbsp;Within Germany, Berlin and Bremen have the highest unemployment (worse than Italy, and almost three times higher than the US average). These are very attractive cities to young people, and many foreign students will take a double discount in salaries (one for weak German, and the other for the high supply of graduates) to work there.<br><br>And so the other element of this is to increase demand for you, personally. That means career strategy (turning an amorphous aspiration into a career goal). Christine Menges, head of career services at WHU, wrote this great book: https://www.routledge.com/The-Essential-Guide-to-Studying-Abroad-From-Success-in-the-Classroom-to/Klassen-Menges/p/book/9780367235161 The section on The Triple M Career Roadmap: Me, Market and Match is really helpful.&nbsp;</div>
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