Saarland University MBA


Lou
Dear all,

This is my first post.

As far as I have read discussions on here, Saarland University (Europa-institut) MBA is not recognized as a good choice.
I would like to know what is the reason of it.

I know that it is not internationally accredited. Is that the only reason, or is there any other?

Both Saarland University and Europa-institut seem to be ranked "not so low" as higher educational institutions, but is that because of other subjects than Business Administration?

*FYI, results of a couple of university ranking 2019 are as below.
CWUR World rank #494
QS World rank #=461

If anyone can point out its shortcomings, I will greatly appreciate!
Thank you!

Best regards,
Lou

[Edited by Lou on Jan 17, 2019]

Dear all,

This is my first post.

As far as I have read discussions on here, Saarland University (Europa-institut) MBA is not recognized as a good choice.
I would like to know what is the reason of it.

I know that it is not internationally accredited. Is that the only reason, or is there any other?

Both Saarland University and Europa-institut seem to be ranked "not so low" as higher educational institutions, but is that because of other subjects than Business Administration?

*FYI, results of a couple of university ranking 2019 are as below.
CWUR World rank #494
QS World rank #=461

If anyone can point out its shortcomings, I will greatly appreciate!
Thank you!

Best regards,
Lou
quote
Duncan
Most students take an MBA for a solid education or good career prospects. Without meaningful accreditation, you probably won't get either. If these are not your goals, then perhaps Saarland is for you.
Most students take an MBA for a solid education or good career prospects. Without meaningful accreditation, you probably won't get either. If these are not your goals, then perhaps Saarland is for you.
quote
Lou
Thank you very much for your prompt reply, Duncan.
I was expecting you to answer and you did so! I'm very happy!

I understood that accreditation is one of the most important evaluation for MBAs.
This might be an odd point of view but, if it was not an MBA but other Master's degree such as B.A. or B.Sc. in Management, then it could be said good program. (Maybe.)

Could you help me a bit more to find my best or at least most better decision?

I am interested in studying management. I have been in charge of corporate communication in recent 5 years in the company I work for. I became keen to learn human resource management by perspective of internal communication (employee relations), change management as well as organizational behavior.
My total working duration will be 11 years by the end of coming March.

My Bachelor's degree is B.A. in Education, and I have never obtained any credits in regard of business, management, economics nor psychology. The program I can apply for is non-consecutive (conversion), that is why I thought of MBA.

Unfortunately, my budget is limited. The expense should be 250,000 EUR in total, including semester fee, accommodation fee and other living costs.
Because of the limited budget, I would like the duration of the course to be no longer than 1.5 years, preferably 1 year.

However, what I seek for is not the degree of MBA but practical knowledge and experience of HRM. Additionally, because of higher tuition fee, I would rather try to apply B.A. or B.Sc. if there is such program.

I have read your recommendation to others to study the language first then apply to Master's program that is taught in German.
I can manage one year intensive language study and then one year Master's program as long as total cost meets my budget. I believe if the tuition is not charged, there is a way I can manage two years of study.

The problem is, I am using DAAD and other portal websites but I could not find such program.

I believe you know not only MBAs but also other Master's degrees in the field of business. If you could provide me links or just names of programs, I will be most glad!
I have been thinking of Germany, but if there are possible courses in other countries, I will definitely give them a thought.

Please forgive the lengthy post, and I am looking forward to your reply.

Best regards,
Lou
Thank you very much for your prompt reply, Duncan.
I was expecting you to answer and you did so! I'm very happy!

I understood that accreditation is one of the most important evaluation for MBAs.
This might be an odd point of view but, if it was not an MBA but other Master's degree such as B.A. or B.Sc. in Management, then it could be said good program. (Maybe.)

Could you help me a bit more to find my best or at least most better decision?

I am interested in studying management. I have been in charge of corporate communication in recent 5 years in the company I work for. I became keen to learn human resource management by perspective of internal communication (employee relations), change management as well as organizational behavior.
My total working duration will be 11 years by the end of coming March.

My Bachelor's degree is B.A. in Education, and I have never obtained any credits in regard of business, management, economics nor psychology. The program I can apply for is non-consecutive (conversion), that is why I thought of MBA.

Unfortunately, my budget is limited. The expense should be 250,000 EUR in total, including semester fee, accommodation fee and other living costs.
Because of the limited budget, I would like the duration of the course to be no longer than 1.5 years, preferably 1 year.

However, what I seek for is not the degree of MBA but practical knowledge and experience of HRM. Additionally, because of higher tuition fee, I would rather try to apply B.A. or B.Sc. if there is such program.

I have read your recommendation to others to study the language first then apply to Master's program that is taught in German.
I can manage one year intensive language study and then one year Master's program as long as total cost meets my budget. I believe if the tuition is not charged, there is a way I can manage two years of study.

The problem is, I am using DAAD and other portal websites but I could not find such program.

I believe you know not only MBAs but also other Master's degrees in the field of business. If you could provide me links or just names of programs, I will be most glad!
I have been thinking of Germany, but if there are possible courses in other countries, I will definitely give them a thought.

Please forgive the lengthy post, and I am looking forward to your reply.

Best regards,
Lou
quote
Duncan
I think your options in Germany are limited by your earlier studies not being in economics or business, as well as by your budget.

Since your goals are to study management, why not do that in your own country, either at a local university or with something like the Illinois iMBA or Maryland MBA core curriculum?

Perhaps you might find more luck in Austria or German-speaking Switzerland? Take a look at mastersportal.eu
I think your options in Germany are limited by your earlier studies not being in economics or business, as well as by your budget.

Since your goals are to study management, why not do that in your own country, either at a local university or with something like the Illinois iMBA or Maryland MBA core curriculum?

Perhaps you might find more luck in Austria or German-speaking Switzerland? Take a look at mastersportal.eu
quote
Lou
Thank you again for your prompt reply, Duncan!

I was hoping to have an opportunity to spend a couple of years in Germany to learn and experience the culture, custom and day-to-day life as well as their mind-set of management in work place alongside of my study but... I guess I have to take a look at different countries...
Darn!

May I ask you another simple question to assure my understanding?

1. The MBA program which is offered by HWR Berlin is considered to be better than the one offered by Saarland University, because it is accredited by AMBA.

This means,

2. Even though the world ranking of HWR is much lower than Saarland, when the programs are on the stage of MBA, university ranking is considered less important criterion in comparison with international accreditation.

Am I correct?


In regard of other destination, what is the reason that you recommend Austria or Switzerland?

Also, what do you think of the Netherlands in stead of those two?


You have been great supervisor! I can't thank you more!
I am looking forward to your reply!

Best regards,
Lou
Thank you again for your prompt reply, Duncan!

I was hoping to have an opportunity to spend a couple of years in Germany to learn and experience the culture, custom and day-to-day life as well as their mind-set of management in work place alongside of my study but... I guess I have to take a look at different countries...
Darn!

May I ask you another simple question to assure my understanding?

1. The MBA program which is offered by HWR Berlin is considered to be better than the one offered by Saarland University, because it is accredited by AMBA.

This means,

2. Even though the world ranking of HWR is much lower than Saarland, when the programs are on the stage of MBA, university ranking is considered less important criterion in comparison with international accreditation.

Am I correct?


In regard of other destination, what is the reason that you recommend Austria or Switzerland?

Also, what do you think of the Netherlands in stead of those two?


You have been great supervisor! I can't thank you more!
I am looking forward to your reply!

Best regards,
Lou
quote
Duncan
The greater quality of HWR is evidenced by the accreditation. It's not better because of the accreditation. It's accredited because it is better. Indeed, the generic world ranking doesn't focus on the quality of taught programmes and the resources that support teaching. Schools with famously terrible teaching, like the LSE, and do very well in world rankings that are based on research.

I recommended Austria or Switzerland because those are countries with German-speaking majorities and, since you mentioned Germany, I guess you might have a focus on that region.

There are great universities in many countries. What are your goals?
The greater quality of HWR is evidenced by the accreditation. It's not better because of the accreditation. It's accredited because it is better. Indeed, the generic world ranking doesn't focus on the quality of taught programmes and the resources that support teaching. Schools with famously terrible teaching, like the LSE, and do very well in world rankings that are based on research.

I recommended Austria or Switzerland because those are countries with German-speaking majorities and, since you mentioned Germany, I guess you might have a focus on that region.

There are great universities in many countries. What are your goals?
quote
Lou
Hmmmm, I see...
Well, I have friends who graduated from LSE and I heard some stories that the fact helped them. They say a lot of people, at least in the UK, think it is a very, very good school and that sells them in many ways but, I guess it is something that leads me to your question, "what are my goals?"

I didn't want to bother you by telling the whole story of my entire situation, but I will write a bit before explaining my goals.

-I started working right after I finished my bachelor’s degree and have been working in the same company for almost 11 years. I have only worked in this company.
-After I was placed in 3 different departments and positions, I became in charge of public relations and corporate communications about 5 years ago.
-The company I work for is small-to-medium sized trading company which has 50 years of history.
-We don't have HRM department nor specialist, a person who is in charge, and the company is being ran without strategic model of HRM and HRD.
-I was the first corporate communication specialist in its 45 years history, and I am still the only one who does the role in its 50th anniversary year.
-The company has been trying to make drastic change and I was told to manage employees by making plans of internal communications, since I am the only one who could be at least suitable from former experience. However, I have never studied about management.

At this point, I became interested to study outside of my working place.
My goal was, at least at first, to study and come back to the company. Learn something practical and implement the theory to everyday management right away. I wasn't thinking of changing my career such as to become entrepreneur and starting my own business or become consultant or try working in international, world class companies as managerial position.
Because of this, I wasn't really looking for accredited MBAs until you taught me international accreditation is a gauge of teaching quality and overall evaluation of programs.

I spend years in the US during my high school, so I know how budget meets quality there, even when it comes to consider higher education.
Tuition and living costs in the US and the UK in general don't meet my situation. I didn't know much about Australia and Canada, so I did a bit of search. However, they both also seem to be expensive places to go study abroad.
Then, I thought of European countries where I can study in English.

The reason why I was thinking of Germany is something that might sound vague.
I can only say I was interested in the culture.
I am from the country where the word “death from overwork” is generated. It is unfortunately famous for its poor work-life balance and inefficient working style.
I was always interested in how the German economy is realized on everyday work of people there.
From the day I read somewhere that Berlin became center of incubator of entrepreneurs in Europe, I have been curious of how German startups manage to balance between their devotion of creating business and private time.
Also, the company I work for is importer and distributor of giant German manufacture in Munich and I was a sales representative of their products once. The company also imports eco-friendly and organic certified cleaning detergents from small local manufacturer in east Baden-Württemberg.
I thought becoming familiar with German management and the language helps the company to make stronger business relations between those manufacturers as well as future possibility of new importing business.

From this point, I first thought of doing some internships in startups in Berlin. However, as I did some searching as well as organizing my thoughts and putting them together, I started to think learning management in higher education institution instead, because 3 to 6 months of internships experience doesn’t help me become capable of taking a role of practitioner of HRM.

I am confident that many people of my country are seeking for the right direction of their careers. Many of them are unsure which way to go and what to believe.
Also, as far as I know, many CEOs and board members of SMEs are sincerely seeking their employees' happiness as well but struggle to survive in their markets. They try to go through the situation by doing something new, such as making new products and services while knowing it can exhaust their employees even worse.
After spending some time to think, I am now interested in helping not only my company to manage change but also other startups and SMEs by perspective of HRM.

Phew, please excuse another lengthy post.

In conclusion, my goal is to become specialist who can plan and put strategies of HRM in practice in enterprises, including the company I am working and also other startups and SMEs in my home country.
To do this, I might become intrapreneur or freelance after completing my study and spend some more years of applying the methods to my company and help succeeding its transformation.

I thank you in advance for your time to read this way too many information and to reply out of your busy schedule.
I will greatly appreciate any kind of advice from you!

Best regards,
Lou
Hmmmm, I see...
Well, I have friends who graduated from LSE and I heard some stories that the fact helped them. They say a lot of people, at least in the UK, think it is a very, very good school and that sells them in many ways but, I guess it is something that leads me to your question, "what are my goals?"

I didn't want to bother you by telling the whole story of my entire situation, but I will write a bit before explaining my goals.

-I started working right after I finished my bachelor’s degree and have been working in the same company for almost 11 years. I have only worked in this company.
-After I was placed in 3 different departments and positions, I became in charge of public relations and corporate communications about 5 years ago.
-The company I work for is small-to-medium sized trading company which has 50 years of history.
-We don't have HRM department nor specialist, a person who is in charge, and the company is being ran without strategic model of HRM and HRD.
-I was the first corporate communication specialist in its 45 years history, and I am still the only one who does the role in its 50th anniversary year.
-The company has been trying to make drastic change and I was told to manage employees by making plans of internal communications, since I am the only one who could be at least suitable from former experience. However, I have never studied about management.

At this point, I became interested to study outside of my working place.
My goal was, at least at first, to study and come back to the company. Learn something practical and implement the theory to everyday management right away. I wasn't thinking of changing my career such as to become entrepreneur and starting my own business or become consultant or try working in international, world class companies as managerial position.
Because of this, I wasn't really looking for accredited MBAs until you taught me international accreditation is a gauge of teaching quality and overall evaluation of programs.

I spend years in the US during my high school, so I know how budget meets quality there, even when it comes to consider higher education.
Tuition and living costs in the US and the UK in general don't meet my situation. I didn't know much about Australia and Canada, so I did a bit of search. However, they both also seem to be expensive places to go study abroad.
Then, I thought of European countries where I can study in English.

The reason why I was thinking of Germany is something that might sound vague.
I can only say I was interested in the culture.
I am from the country where the word “death from overwork” is generated. It is unfortunately famous for its poor work-life balance and inefficient working style.
I was always interested in how the German economy is realized on everyday work of people there.
From the day I read somewhere that Berlin became center of incubator of entrepreneurs in Europe, I have been curious of how German startups manage to balance between their devotion of creating business and private time.
Also, the company I work for is importer and distributor of giant German manufacture in Munich and I was a sales representative of their products once. The company also imports eco-friendly and organic certified cleaning detergents from small local manufacturer in east Baden-Württemberg.
I thought becoming familiar with German management and the language helps the company to make stronger business relations between those manufacturers as well as future possibility of new importing business.

From this point, I first thought of doing some internships in startups in Berlin. However, as I did some searching as well as organizing my thoughts and putting them together, I started to think learning management in higher education institution instead, because 3 to 6 months of internships experience doesn’t help me become capable of taking a role of practitioner of HRM.

I am confident that many people of my country are seeking for the right direction of their careers. Many of them are unsure which way to go and what to believe.
Also, as far as I know, many CEOs and board members of SMEs are sincerely seeking their employees' happiness as well but struggle to survive in their markets. They try to go through the situation by doing something new, such as making new products and services while knowing it can exhaust their employees even worse.
After spending some time to think, I am now interested in helping not only my company to manage change but also other startups and SMEs by perspective of HRM.

Phew, please excuse another lengthy post.

In conclusion, my goal is to become specialist who can plan and put strategies of HRM in practice in enterprises, including the company I am working and also other startups and SMEs in my home country.
To do this, I might become intrapreneur or freelance after completing my study and spend some more years of applying the methods to my company and help succeeding its transformation.

I thank you in advance for your time to read this way too many information and to reply out of your busy schedule.
I will greatly appreciate any kind of advice from you!

Best regards,
Lou
quote
Duncan
Doesn't a master's in HR or in organisational change or business psychology work better?
Doesn't a master's in HR or in organisational change or business psychology work better?
quote
Lou
Do you mean, work better than MBA?
Then yes, that was actually what I was thinking at first. I was doing research for such programs.

The problem is, I couldn't find affordable master's degrees which don't require prerequisites of management, economics or physiology.
You know more about this than I do but, most of the master's degrees in German public universities are consecutive studies, and private universities as well as universities of applied sciences charge tuition fees which are not cheap in comparison of contents and quality.
That is why I started to cosider about MBAs.

If you can think of programs that meet my wish and conditions, can you share them with me?

I haven't talked about the requirements to the faculties yet but "Cultural Economics and Entrepreneurship" offered by Erasmus University Rotterdam or "Entrepreneurship and SMEs Management" offered by Masstricht University seem like something that I might want to give thoughts.

Witten/Herdecke University offers 2 years master's "Philosophy, Politics and Economics" but I'm not sure about their teaching quality.
I also found 2 years MBA from Leipzig University but again it is not internationally accredited and there is very little information about the program...
Do you mean, work better than MBA?
Then yes, that was actually what I was thinking at first. I was doing research for such programs.

The problem is, I couldn't find affordable master's degrees which don't require prerequisites of management, economics or physiology.
You know more about this than I do but, most of the master's degrees in German public universities are consecutive studies, and private universities as well as universities of applied sciences charge tuition fees which are not cheap in comparison of contents and quality.
That is why I started to cosider about MBAs.

If you can think of programs that meet my wish and conditions, can you share them with me?

I haven't talked about the requirements to the faculties yet but "Cultural Economics and Entrepreneurship" offered by Erasmus University Rotterdam or "Entrepreneurship and SMEs Management" offered by Masstricht University seem like something that I might want to give thoughts.

Witten/Herdecke University offers 2 years master's "Philosophy, Politics and Economics" but I'm not sure about their teaching quality.
I also found 2 years MBA from Leipzig University but again it is not internationally accredited and there is very little information about the program...
quote
Duncan
It might be easier for you to take a online course that meets the management requirements, like a 30 or 60 ects course and then do the MSc. For example the LSE does graduate diplomas which are affordable.
It might be easier for you to take a online course that meets the management requirements, like a 30 or 60 ects course and then do the MSc. For example the LSE does graduate diplomas which are affordable.
quote
Duncan
Some German programmes will say that a certain number of ECTS in the field are needed before they will allow entry. You will need to check sadly, since they may have different views of the LSE diploma.
Some German programmes will say that a certain number of ECTS in the field are needed before they will allow entry. You will need to check sadly, since they may have different views of the LSE diploma.
quote
Lou
I accidentally deleted my previous post but what matters to me as well as others on the forum is your answer, so it shouldn't be a problem.

Thank you again for your advice, Duncan.
I can't do random things, so I guess I have to decide some programs that I wish to be enrolled, make contacts with faculties or student service office and ask if they can accept such procedure.

This might be a question that goes a bit too far at this moment but, do you think accreditation matters to M. Sc. as well? As far as I searched on the internet, I believe AMBA is only focused on MBA programs but AACSB and EQUIS are evaluation for other business programs.
Do I need to keep in mind about international accreditation when finding programs, universities and schools?
I accidentally deleted my previous post but what matters to me as well as others on the forum is your answer, so it shouldn't be a problem.

Thank you again for your advice, Duncan.
I can't do random things, so I guess I have to decide some programs that I wish to be enrolled, make contacts with faculties or student service office and ask if they can accept such procedure.

This might be a question that goes a bit too far at this moment but, do you think accreditation matters to M. Sc. as well? As far as I searched on the internet, I believe AMBA is only focused on MBA programs but AACSB and EQUIS are evaluation for other business programs.
Do I need to keep in mind about international accreditation when finding programs, universities and schools?
quote
Duncan
This depends on your goals.
This depends on your goals.
quote
Lou
I apologize in advance if I annoy you by repeating the same answer, but my goal is to become able to plan and put strategies of HRM in practice in enterprises, including the company I am currently working for and also other startups and SMEs in my home country.
I apologize in advance if I annoy you by repeating the same answer, but my goal is to become able to plan and put strategies of HRM in practice in enterprises, including the company I am currently working for and also other startups and SMEs in my home country.
quote
Duncan
I think a degree in HR, organisational consultation or or organisational psychology might be more useful. I would certainly look for accreditations like CIPD; SHRM and BPS. They often have listings like https://www.shrm.org/academicinitiatives/students/Pages/HRProgramDirectory.aspx
I think a degree in HR, organisational consultation or or organisational psychology might be more useful. I would certainly look for accreditations like CIPD; SHRM and BPS. They often have listings like https://www.shrm.org/academicinitiatives/students/Pages/HRProgramDirectory.aspx
quote
Lou
Hello Duncan, thank you for useful link.
I will keep those accreditations in mind and look further for programs.
Hello Duncan, thank you for useful link.
I will keep those accreditations in mind and look further for programs.
quote

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