Hi,



I am considering doing an EMBA, and I'd like to discuss the differences between the various ones in the title of the topic, whether they'd be a good fit for me, and also if my current experience would be appropriate for my application to be successful.



My situation:

- French citizen living in Paris

- master in management from Paris university (major in finance/control/audit) and the ACCA obtained in London.

- I worked 5 years in London (major international audit firm) and I’ll have 10 years of experience post-master in total when I would start the EMBA.

- I work in financial service, in a big, very international firm, in the Group finance team. I don’t have management responsibilities (direct reports), I’m more on an expert role. I’ve experience in driving projects though, coordinating people and also having fairly close contact with top management at group level and in our various locations around the world.



My objectives:

- Intellectual challenge: I really want something that’ll challenge me, and something that looks at the bigger pictures. I’d say it’s factor number 1. An EMBA that integrates inputs from economy, social science, geopolitics, and similar, would be ideal. I don’t want a pure business course. My master already had a GMP-like program, with marketing, strategy, HR, finance etc.

- Career progression: I’m not obsessed by salary progression in itself, but of course career progression is a key objective. I’d like to be more and more involved in decision-making and/or strategic projects in the middle-term.

- I don’t particularly plan to move abroad. After the EMBA, I’d probably stay in France for at least a few years.

- I’m fairly happy in financial services. I’m not entirely discarding changing sector one day, but it’s not an immediate goal to change. In any case, I don’t have in mind a specific target sector.



Here is my research and comments on the various EMBAs identified:

 - All the French ones: being in Paris, of course an EMBA in Paris would be easier to handle as a big part of the courses would be close from home. However, I want an international EMBA, both in terms of participants and also I want the opportunity of travelling while doing it.

- As my most likely course of action is to stay in France for a while, a French prestigious institution would be helpful, I suppose. My master/university is regarded as good but not great, probably in the bottom of the good ones in France (good enough to join a major audit firm but clearly not as good a reputation as HEC, ESSEC and the likes, or the good engineering schools). Given that France keeps that lovely tendency to judge you by your school for your whole professional life, I guess the prestige of the institution would help me settle that part once and for all.

- ESCP: looks very international, with 5 international seminars and the elective courses a bit everywhere around the world. That seems exciting. They communicate a lot on ESG, and they’re highly ranked for that in the FT, which I find nice. The EMBA is highly ranked in the FT, and the school as a whole is usually seen as top-3.

- ESSEC-Mannheim: ESSEC is also top-3 in France, although the EMBA itself is not ranked as high as ESCP. I don’t know what to think about this EMBA frankly, the cursus seems quite standard.

- HEC: from this forum, I understand that the EMBA (non-TRIUM) is geared towards entrepreneurs. If that’s the case, that’s not what I’m looking for. But of course HEC reputation is top-notch. Any opinion?

- INSEAD: very well-known. Most expensive of all. Seems that they are strong in financial services, which is a plus for me. The cursus seems pretty standard though. And their cohorts seem very very senior, so I’m also wondering whether my application would have any chance anyway.

- CEU: not French - harder to manage logistically as nothing is in France. Also, CEU is probably virtually unknow in France, and the EMBA is not ranked at all yet (as it’s new). However, the cost is much lower than the other ones. And the program…the program looks extremely exciting: focus on data-driven decision-making, strong inputs from political sciences and economy, cohorts with not only business people but also public sector and charities, and finally a clear vision of society as a whole (as an open society), not just looking for the best way to do business.



Final note: I’m not in a rush, if it’s better to wait and build-up my profile and experience before doing an EMBA to get the most out of it (and/or to be able to access a great one rather than a good one), I’d be fine with it.



I’m happy to discuss all of the above with you guys, see if my preliminary considerations are appropriate, and if I’ve missed important points.



Thank you!

[Edited by Cyril on Oct 30, 2022]

It's important to put your criteria in order. On the international nature of the MBA, is that more important to you than career progression and a strong network? It's nice to travel but perhaps focus on the best MBA and then the extra income can support excellent travel opportunities in the future. 

The most international cohort will be ESCP (because of their European track), Insead, Trium and HEC. The ESSEC-Mannheim track is a good option too. 

Could Oxford or LBS work for you? 

PS CEU makes no sense. I suggest you start to contact these schools and visit a class at each to get a sense of the cohort quality. 

[Edited by Duncan on Oct 30, 2022]

Thank you very much! Your comment on the travel thing makes total sense, I should probably no put so much emphasis on that. I didn't know you could visit a class of EMBA, for now I have only looked at the cohort descriptions in the brochures. I'll look into it.

I terms of content/curriculum, do you see any noteworthy difference between, for example, ESCP, HEC, ESSEC or Insead? I've looked into them but they look more or less equivalent to me (some may have a bit more or less of an entrepreneurial focus but that's about it).

For Oxford or LBS, I have not considered them in particular. I think that'd be more difficult to handle, as I'd have to travel for everything. Also, Oxford seems to be in full-week modules, which makes is harder to juggle work and study. But I'm interested, what was the reason why you mentioned those two in particular?

The difference in cohort and alumni network matters more than the content. The core will be very similar. ESCP has a very extensive core, which I have discussed on other threads. Focus on the school with the best fit. 

Oxford's blocks do work for some people from outside the country. It's a very international experience. I studied at LBS and EDHEC, and found that the grandes écoles have a very different feeling from the Anglo Saxon approach. You might find it useful. It's also a very big brand globally. LBS has an exceptionally good EMBA and a very strong cohort. 

Ok, noted - I'll focus on the cohort (I need to dig into your LinkedIn tutorial). In another topic, you stated that ESCP cohort might be a bit more stretching than ESSEC.

I was actually wondering about the difference between a "Grande Ecole" and a university approach. Would you be kind enough to specify in which way it has a different feeling ? From what I gathered I'd risk that it may be more a "campus" experience, with more relationships with more people (not only from the EMBA itself), whereas EMBA in a Grande Ecole may be lacking in that department. But I'm not sure at all that it is what you mean.

Generally a grande ecole MBA will be hard to get into but not very challenging academically, and focussed very much on individual assessment. An Anglo Saxon school will have more assessment and more group work. 

Alright, so, after much complications, I am now at the following stage:
- doing the eMBA abroad is not easy practically, and the cost of the best eMBAs abroad is very high
- my company will not finance an Insead one, and even if they finance part of it the remaining cost would be massive

At this stage, I'm aiming for ESSEC/Mannheim or ESCP, with the following considerations:
- Organisation: ESSEC is full weeks, which I find much better personally. ESCP is often a few days here and there
- Both programs are relatively similar, I may have a slight preference for ESSEC/Mannheim but it's hard to really differentiate. ESCP has more of the international seminars, that looks very interesting in their contents.
- Cost: ESCP is more expensive, especially since I'm unlikely to be able to benefit from their "early bird discount". ESCP would then probably be €79k, versus €61k for ESSEC/Mannheim. Depending if I get a sponsorship from my firm and how much, this point may disappear. In any case, I know that the cost difference must be looked at only for similar programs, if one is much better than the other, taking the most expensive may well be worthwhile.

I understand that both options are good overall, both ESCP and ESSEC are very well-regarded in France. ESCP eMBA is better ranked in most rankings, especially in the FT (5 vs 27) - but that seems to come mostly from the salaries and salary progression of the cohort, hence not directly relevant as my own salary will not magically adjust to the average of the eMBA.

Do you see any good reason to pick one or the other ?

From other threads on this forum I understand ESCP has a more senior cohort, hence a bit more stretching for me, and obviously there's the ranking difference. I have no particular interest in working in Germany, where the Mannheim stamp and network would be useful. I couldn't notice much difference in the alumnis of both programs on LinkedIn.

I would go for Insead if you can or HEC. Simply because they have the highest brand recongition in France and we know how important it is in France. 

Hum yes I know that. But the difference in costs is massive, and I don't think I'd get a high sponsorship from my company. If they'd finance 80% or something regardless of the cost of the eMBA, yeah the remaining cost would be easily manageable, but that's not the case. If they provide something that will probably be a fixed amount so the absolute cost will be a factor.

And to be fair, the ESSEC's eMBA in particular was one of my favourites, judging by the program.
You don't think that ESSEC's reputation would be an asset ? Or is it seen as a "good school" only for primary education, not executive education ? I don't really plan to work abroad anytime soon.
And is it possible to compare ESSEC and ESCP reputation, for an eMBA ?

And is it possible to compare ESSEC and ESCP reputation, for an eMBA ?

Ah ah I see your point ! 

But first there are various rankings, which don't always rank the same, and also usually don't even include all schools. It' s only in the FT one that I could find both ESSEC and ESCP in the same space. Well, I suppose the FT is the main one, but even then, INSEAD for exemple is "only" 17, clearly behind ESCP or HEC, but in the real world I've found no one who told me to do ESCP or HEC instead of INSEAD. No one even had to think about it for a second (even people who had done the ESCP one).

Also, in France, I feel that ESSEC and ESCP (as schools, not considering any specific diploma) have a similar reputation, i.e. both excellent (tiny bit behind HEC, with ESSEC a tiny bit better than ESCP).

Looking in more details the FT ranking, the key difference between them seems to be the salary and salary increase, which as we know are the biggest weights in the FT ranking. It's debatable whether that directly translates into a benefit for students.

So I was trying to check whether in the "real world" (real world of this forum) people would actually think that ESCP and ESSEC/Mannheim are in a slightly different league as the ranking suggests. I think you have said yourself sometimes on this forum that ESSEC is a solid option for example.
But if you tell me that I should think less and follow the ranking more, that's easy enough to understand  . I'll still take other criterias into account but if the place in FT ranking must be critical for the choice, I'll take it into account as much as possible !

These rankings do expose variables that you can use to make choices. I am not saying you should think less. LOL. 

At the risk of repetition, cohort and alumni network are critical. Focus on your specific career goals and look at which schools have the most relevant community for your individual goals, rather than on generic rankings. 

Thank you, precious advice as usual. What I make of it at this stage:
- Cohort of ESCP will probably be more senior, as indicated by their salary and by the work experience ranking in the FT (and some comments on this forum). Hence, more stretching, overall better. With maybe a slightly bigger risk of not being accepted as I'd be more junior (don't worry I know I can apply to several schools at the same time  )

- ESCP cohort will probably be more international as well, judging by their brochure, the FT data, and the fact they have campuses everywhere in Europe. Which is better overall.

- For ESSEC, partnership with Mannheim may be interesting internationally due to the reputation of the German business school, but I don't plan to work specifically in Germany or in a German business environment. So I'm unlikely to realise the full benefits of the partnership.

- Alumni: I'm struggling to differentiate between both, looking at LinkedIn. I'm sure both have a top notch network, even if slightly less than HEC/Insead). For my situation, working in financial services, I'd say that ESSEC may have a slightly better network as the school is a bit stronger in Finance than ESCP (probably debatable/cutting hairs). And with a very slightly better reputation overall, as it's usually second in the rankings just before ESCP.

So, looking at all this, ESCP would have an edge. Cost might be significantly higher though, so I’ll think this through some more !

[Edited by Cyril on Apr 19, 2023]