Hi,

I am an engineer from India with currently 2 years work ex in IT. I'll be giving the GMAT this month, and Im expecting a score of around 700-720.

The only b-schools I'm looking at are MBS, AGSM and MGSM. I have a few questions before I consider applying...

1. Considering my profile, which school should I apply for/at which one do I have highest chances for admission?

2. What is the typical acceptance rate at these 3 schools for the full time MBA program over the past few years?

3. Since only the MGSM mba program is for 2 years, will I be eligible for the post study work permit after completing my graduation at the other two? If not, what can a person do after completing a 1 year MBA in australia till he finds a job? Can he stay till he finds a job or will he be sent back to his home country?

[Edited by blitzkrieg on Jul 27, 2016]

I believe that if your MBA is less than 16 months long, you will not be eligible to apply for a work visa afterwards. Which would mean that you couldn't stay and look for work after the program.

The AGSM MBA is 16 months long so if you did this program you'd be eligible for the post-study work visa. Not sure about Melbourne, as its program is only one year long. You might want to ask them and the other schools directly.

In terms of your competitiveness, AGSM and MGSM tend to recruit more senior students - their cohorts' average work experience tends to be in the 6.5 - 7.0 year range. Since you're well under this, it might be a challenge for you. If you can get a higher GMAT score - at the top of your prediction range or even higher, that could help. But it's still going to be an uphill battle...

I believe that if your MBA is less than 16 months long, you will not be eligible to apply for a work visa afterwards. Which would mean that you couldn't stay and look for work after the program.

The AGSM MBA is 16 months long so if you did this program you'd be eligible for the post-study work visa. Not sure about Melbourne, as its program is only one year long. You might want to ask them and the other schools directly.

In terms of your competitiveness, AGSM and MGSM tend to recruit more senior students - their cohorts' average work experience tends to be in the 6.5 - 7.0 year range. Since you're well under this, it might be a challenge for you. If you can get a higher GMAT score - at the top of your prediction range or even higher, that could help. But it's still going to be an uphill battle...

[Edited by blitzkrieg on Jul 23, 2016]

Instead of using MBA as a desperate immigration tool, you'll be better of using MBA to address an skill gaps that you currently have which is forbidding you to land your dream job. ( search some of my posts on this forum)

Your GMAT score is good - and in ballpark for Top 10 B schools. But that's about it. You'll need to focus on your career goals and write convincing essays.

No one can see into future and tell you if a decision or school is a wise or unwise decision. you'll have to decide on your risk taking appetite.

Instead of using MBA as a desperate immigration tool, you'll be better of using MBA to address an skill gaps that you currently have which is forbidding you to land your dream job. ( search some of my posts on this forum)

Your GMAT score is good - and in ballpark for Top 10 B schools. But that's about it. You'll need to focus on your career goals and write convincing essays.

No one can see into future and tell you if a decision or school is a wise or unwise decision. you'll have to decide on your risk taking appetite.

[Edited by blitzkrieg on Jul 24, 2016]

@Blitz

Multiple things

1) I am a desi, so I know what's going on back home. IIM-A is just one school. people have made career switches even going to Tapmi. many schools now offer a 1 year executive type MBA e.g. I had an admit from SPjain's PGPM. However since your focus is outside of India let's not think about desi B schools.

2) US top tier schools are tough to get into even if you have a top notch GMAT. Acceptance rate at the likes of H/S/W are in single digits 7% ~ 9% or so. Discounting yourself just on basis on GMAT is not reasonable. Other stuff > IIM (Indian IT Male) may work against you in some schools than others. It's hard to tell and predict those numbers.

3) schools in Australia / Canada work differently than US top 10. I don't know the acceptance rate of those schools but I would encourage you to apply.

4) Schools should be shortlisted based on career goals. Management Consulting / Financial Services are still generic. (Read my post about skill gap)

5) Career switching is more difficult in US / Canada / Australia than in India. How will you convince a recruiter that he should hire you for Management Consulting over a candidate having work ex in MBB after his or her undergrad? Or over a Finance major in undergrad?
What skill sets you bring to the table ?
The moment you have this answer and view MBA as a tool to bridge the skill gap, you'll be able to shortlist schools, write solid essays and convince recruiters post MBA.

You are good to apply at all top Canadian / Australian schools.

Good Luck

@Blitz

Multiple things

1) I am a desi, so I know what's going on back home. IIM-A is just one school. people have made career switches even going to Tapmi. many schools now offer a 1 year executive type MBA e.g. I had an admit from SPjain's PGPM. However since your focus is outside of India let's not think about desi B schools.

2) US top tier schools are tough to get into even if you have a top notch GMAT. Acceptance rate at the likes of H/S/W are in single digits 7% ~ 9% or so. Discounting yourself just on basis on GMAT is not reasonable. Other stuff > IIM (Indian IT Male) may work against you in some schools than others. It's hard to tell and predict those numbers.

3) schools in Australia / Canada work differently than US top 10. I don't know the acceptance rate of those schools but I would encourage you to apply.

4) Schools should be shortlisted based on career goals. Management Consulting / Financial Services are still generic. (Read my post about skill gap)

5) Career switching is more difficult in US / Canada / Australia than in India. How will you convince a recruiter that he should hire you for Management Consulting over a candidate having work ex in MBB after his or her undergrad? Or over a Finance major in undergrad?
What skill sets you bring to the table ?
The moment you have this answer and view MBA as a tool to bridge the skill gap, you'll be able to shortlist schools, write solid essays and convince recruiters post MBA.

You are good to apply at all top Canadian / Australian schools.

Good Luck

[Edited by blitzkrieg on Jul 25, 2016]

@Blitz,

Think yourself. Why would a recruiter in Australia hire an Indian national who has 6+ year of work ex in IT. Whose only interaction with Finance or Strategy or Marketing or Operations is limited to few elective subjects taught in MBA - hardly 60+ hours of education.

Why would the recruiter go the extra mile to file work permit, and ignore local candidates who have relevant work experience in Finance / UG in Finance ~ work experience as Business Analyst in KPMG Australia straight out of their undergrad?

What do you bring to the table? (what's skills do you have that they can't find in Australia or Canada or wherever - I am not considering Europe since there is an additional language barrier for desi junta.)

Only place I have seen an easy career switch is in India using MBA.

Some of my american classmates in US lower mid tier B school tried to switch from Marketing to Finance and vice versa. They had a hard time finding employment. Since you don't have enough business knowledge to get into a finance or consulting role, MBA would provide you with a holistic view for sure. But remember why would a recruiter bother with you? I mean he/she can still hire your fellow classmates who have prior relevant experience + the holistic view gained by MBA.

You talked about ROI, so let's explore it a bit.
Avg. Salary from a mid tier B school ~~ $85,000. Again Consulting/Finance roles would drive this up ~$100,000 and other non-traditional roles (read not really requiring MBAs - but good to have) Operations/Manufacturing etc. may drive the avg. salary down. (Not including Marketing / HR roles since they seldom go for desi)

Now in US $85,000 might sound good at first look. but this is pre-tax. Tax would be anywhere between 25% - 30%. Cost of living a big city can also be high. Just to give you an estimate 1bed room apartment can go from $1200 to $2500 in a suburb / big city respectively. Mobile bill alone is $50~$70/ month.

No one cares about your (or our) ROI, investments, risks - least of all the recruiter. Again, you have to find answer to this question yourself. Why should a recruiter in US/Canada/EU/Australia etc. hire you for roles that you have 0 experience in, and at best have some theoretical knowledge, game simulations etc through your MBA.

Newsflash> Most people who had worked in IT in India end up working in IT Consulting post MBA. Top students go to top school, crack the case interviews to get into Strategy consulting. But that's just my observation of course. Feel free to browse profiles on LinkedIn.

@Blitz,

Think yourself. Why would a recruiter in Australia hire an Indian national who has 6+ year of work ex in IT. Whose only interaction with Finance or Strategy or Marketing or Operations is limited to few elective subjects taught in MBA - hardly 60+ hours of education.

Why would the recruiter go the extra mile to file work permit, and ignore local candidates who have relevant work experience in Finance / UG in Finance ~ work experience as Business Analyst in KPMG Australia straight out of their undergrad?

What do you bring to the table? (what's skills do you have that they can't find in Australia or Canada or wherever - I am not considering Europe since there is an additional language barrier for desi junta.)

Only place I have seen an easy career switch is in India using MBA.

Some of my american classmates in US lower mid tier B school tried to switch from Marketing to Finance and vice versa. They had a hard time finding employment. Since you don't have enough business knowledge to get into a finance or consulting role, MBA would provide you with a holistic view for sure. But remember why would a recruiter bother with you? I mean he/she can still hire your fellow classmates who have prior relevant experience + the holistic view gained by MBA.

You talked about ROI, so let's explore it a bit.
Avg. Salary from a mid tier B school ~~ $85,000. Again Consulting/Finance roles would drive this up ~$100,000 and other non-traditional roles (read not really requiring MBAs - but good to have) Operations/Manufacturing etc. may drive the avg. salary down. (Not including Marketing / HR roles since they seldom go for desi)

Now in US $85,000 might sound good at first look. but this is pre-tax. Tax would be anywhere between 25% - 30%. Cost of living a big city can also be high. Just to give you an estimate 1bed room apartment can go from $1200 to $2500 in a suburb / big city respectively. Mobile bill alone is $50~$70/ month.

No one cares about your (or our) ROI, investments, risks - least of all the recruiter. Again, you have to find answer to this question yourself. Why should a recruiter in US/Canada/EU/Australia etc. hire you for roles that you have 0 experience in, and at best have some theoretical knowledge, game simulations etc through your MBA.

Newsflash> Most people who had worked in IT in India end up working in IT Consulting post MBA. Top students go to top school, crack the case interviews to get into Strategy consulting. But that's just my observation of course. Feel free to browse profiles on LinkedIn.

Hello Blitz,

I am in a same situation as you. All your questions are going on in my mind. I have offers from AGSM and SDA Bocconi, the only schools I applied to. Your concerns are very much relevant. As per my research we have lot of things to worry upon. If you manage to get a PR in Aus, your chances of landing a job is super high.

Unless you speak Italian AGSM would probably be the better option. It would be harder to find a job in Italy without speaking the language than it would to land one in Australia as an English-speaker.

@Blitz,

Think yourself. Why would a recruiter in Australia hire an Indian national who has 6+ year of work ex in IT. Whose only interaction with Finance or Strategy or Marketing or Operations is limited to few elective subjects taught in MBA - hardly 60+ hours of education.

Why would the recruiter go the extra mile to file work permit, and ignore local candidates who have relevant work experience in Finance / UG in Finance ~ work experience as Business Analyst in KPMG Australia straight out of their undergrad?

What do you bring to the table? (what's skills do you have that they can't find in Australia or Canada or wherever - I am not considering Europe since there is an additional language barrier for desi junta.)

Only place I have seen an easy career switch is in India using MBA.

Some of my american classmates in US lower mid tier B school tried to switch from Marketing to Finance and vice versa. They had a hard time finding employment. Since you don't have enough business knowledge to get into a finance or consulting role, MBA would provide you with a holistic view for sure. But remember why would a recruiter bother with you? I mean he/she can still hire your fellow classmates who have prior relevant experience + the holistic view gained by MBA.

You talked about ROI, so let's explore it a bit.
Avg. Salary from a mid tier B school ~~ $85,000. Again Consulting/Finance roles would drive this up ~$100,000 and other non-traditional roles (read not really requiring MBAs - but good to have) Operations/Manufacturing etc. may drive the avg. salary down. (Not including Marketing / HR roles since they seldom go for desi)

Now in US $85,000 might sound good at first look. but this is pre-tax. Tax would be anywhere between 25% - 30%. Cost of living a big city can also be high. Just to give you an estimate 1bed room apartment can go from $1200 to $2500 in a suburb / big city respectively. Mobile bill alone is $50~$70/ month.

No one cares about your (or our) ROI, investments, risks - least of all the recruiter. Again, you have to find answer to this question yourself. Why should a recruiter in US/Canada/EU/Australia etc. hire you for roles that you have 0 experience in, and at best have some theoretical knowledge, game simulations etc through your MBA.

Newsflash> Most people who had worked in IT in India end up working in IT Consulting post MBA. Top students go to top school, crack the case interviews to get into Strategy consulting. But that's just my observation of course. Feel free to browse profiles on LinkedIn.

Alright, thanks for the input...

But one thing, if you do an MBA from the best college in the country (say for example melbourne or rotman), wouldn't you be valued over other MBA applicants for the same role because of the brand name and the quality of the education?

Also, since you mention that the holistic knowledge provided by an MBA wouldn't be enough to get a job in finance/consulting, would you instead recommend a specialized masters like Masters in finance to address the skill gaps better? My work exp has also been slightly on the finance side as I work as a functional tester for a financial software firm.

Moreover, since I currently just have 2 years work exp, I would kind of be looking at entry-mid level positions. Shouldn't it be much easier to change fields early in your career?

P.S - Why do you think you are interested in Finance? What if during your MS or MBA you realized that Finance is not for you? there has to be some overlapping skills or logic that must have triggered your bias towards finance. Whatever that is > make sure you stick with it and not change your mind after 2-3 years.

Ayon

Hello Blitz,

I am in a same situation as you. All your questions are going on in my mind. I have offers from AGSM and SDA Bocconi, the only schools I applied to. Your concerns are very much relevant. As per my research we have lot of things to worry upon. If you manage to get a PR in Aus, your chances of landing a job is super high.

Pretty much sums up.all the questions wanted to ask but in my case my wife was denied us visa in the name of intent to Immigrate.I have no choice but think of any English speaking country outside of USA which also let's my family to accompany I am glad I read these questions .I will also go through the skill gap post too so that I now what I should do

Bocconi is considered to be a much better school in comparison to AGSM/ Melbourne etc at all the bb banks imho. An Aussie friend of mine who currently works in Sydney also said that many Australians educated at said, judge, hbs come back to australia upon graduation. He graduated from bocconi and works at Macquarie in sydney and says that the course was way more rigorous than what he would've studied back in aus.

Hello Blitz,

I am in a same situation as you. All your questions are going on in my mind. I have offers from AGSM and SDA Bocconi, the only schools I applied to. Your concerns are very much relevant. As per my research we have lot of things to worry upon. If you manage to get a PR in Aus, your chances of landing a job is super high.

Hi.

From what I've heard, it is extremely rare to get an Aus PR without a job in hand. Would you get the 2-year post study work permit after studying at AGSM?

Btw, why did you apply to SDA Bocconi? I've heard the unemployment rates in southern europe, such as in spain and italy are extremely high.

I searched LinkedIn for MBAs who are currently working in financial services in Australia. A fairly large sample size (7000+), reveals that these are the top four schools where they went:

AGSM
UTS
Deakin
MGSM