Hi all, i have been admitted to both mba... And i need to choose... I would like to work in strategic consulting after the mba in italy or europe... According to the reports...sda should be the b school to work in consulting...but the ranking and the profile of ie look much better. What do you suggest?

Which language do you speak best? Added fluency is a major advantage when you're doing strategy consulting, since almost everyone is in a client-facing role.

If your Spanish and Italian are equally good, then choose Bocconi, for many reasons:
- For bad reasons as well as good, McKinsey, Bain, Booz and BCG are big in Italy - much more so than in Spain. You'll have more opportunities.
- Bocconi is the number one school in Italy by a mile. IE doesn't have the same lead.
- Bocconi has a strong focus on structured analysis and quantitative decision making, which IE has other strong points. Bocconi fits strategy consulting better.
- Unlike IE, Bocconi is one of the European schools that the strategy houses recruits from intensely for the European market.

If you are looking at alternatives to Bocconi as a way into European strategy consulting then, rather than look at IE, the other schools to look at are - more than anywhere else - London Business School and Insead. They also have the advantage of being in countries which are doing better economically. After then, look at IESE, Cambridge and Politecnico di Milano.

Thank you for your answer.
I am Italian, and yes I would like to work in Milan after the graduation.

I knew that SDA is a good choice, but since I have been admitted to both, I was wondering if a top10 business school isn't better than the top italian business school in terms of CV, program, placement, career.

Difference schools are good for different things. If you're an heir in a family business in Latin America, IE is an excellent school - perhaps the best. But it's not in the top ten for strategy consulting. For that you'd need really strong analytical skills, which is what Insead, LBS, Cambridge, IESE and SDA Bocconi are stronger at.

PS, for example, Insead, IESE or LBS admitted you then I think that's certainly a better choice. If you don't have much experience outside Italy, then I also think that Cambridge might be an option. SDA Bocconi is the straightest line to your goal.

I would like to offer another point of view: IE is the number 10 on the 10 business school's list from where Mckinsey recruits. Bocconi is not in that list, even if in Italy it works very welI. I spoke with some executive italian manager working in industries abroad, and they said that Bocconi is a good choice if you don't want to move from Italy, but while IESE is considered a better school than IE (n. 7 in the FT ranking VS. n. 12, so we knew that) IE has an international recognition, much better school, so you can work everywhere. We are speaking about a business school considered n. 3 in europe after LBS and Insead, and if we want to add Iese and IMD, in any case in the top 5, in every rank. Bocconi is not there, in any rank. Bocconi is a good school to start, like a bachelor, and if you have a bachelor there it is a good occasion to starto a carrier and/or pass to superior schools...In the world ranking, Bocconi is 26, IE is 12. The doubt comes when you want to focus on something in particular, for example, finance instead of consulting, then you need to focus on certain schools beyond others even if slightly worst ranked (slightly...because while it is possible that an Insead graduated will be preferred to a LBS graduated for a consulting position, nobody will go to prefere a Bocconi graduated to an LBS one). In one word, I think that if you know exactly what to do and where, the choice is not difficult and a regional, less ranked school will then work well. But if you are still not sure on what to do and where, I think it is always better to choose a top tier school instead of a tier 2.

This is not so straightforward. IE is a stronger school for the Spanish-speaking world, which is simply larger than the Italian-speaking world. On LinkedIn there are over 150 Bocconi alumni in McKinsey, and most of them are outside Italy. IE has only 53: https://www.linkedin.com/vsearch/p?company=McKinsey&school=Bocconi&openAdvancedForm=true&companyScope=C&locationType=Y&f_CC=1371&rsid=2007051438958816711&orig=MDYS

Maybe because I am italian, but I came into the decision that attending Bocconi for a master degree, for an italian, is not worth if you are not absolutely sure that you will work in Italy. I don't believe that some employer will rank an IE degree less than a Bocconi one, but opposite. In fact IE is always in the top 5 europeans business schools, while Bocconi isn't there in either one single rank. If this is not true, then it means that rankings are rubbish. If you aim a consulting job with no frontiers problem, then Insead is the way, not Bocconi, which is known in Italy only because it is the best by far. Look at Spain, IE is the second ranked among the other 2, Iese and Esade, but the second ranked IE is n. 12 in the world and n. 3 in Europe, much better than the n. 1 in Italy, which is 8 in Europe and doesn't appear in the best 25 in the world (it is 26). So Spain has 3 schools in the best 25 in the world, Italy neither one because the best is n. 26...so we should consider this too. Now, logically, if Bocconi is a good choice for an italian who wants to work in Italy, do you think taht a prestigious master abroad is not well considered? Employers appreciate people who measure themselves abroad, so I still can't see advanteges in studying in Bocconi, especially if you have a Bocconi bachelor (that can help for further studies and/or carrier startings). On an international scale, IE is a tier 1, Bocconi is a tier 2, good for italian market or for a second choice BS for consulting focused jobs, if you can't access Insead, LBS, Iese, which are tier 1. I see a sense in this choice for who wants to work into consulting in Italy. For everything else an IE MBA can't be worst even in the worst occasion. Diversity also tells something about...look at the diversity of the student body in Bocconi, and then look at the IE one..we are to a max of 20 against a max of 70 different represented nationalities..not comparable. Defintely they are not in the same league. I had no clear ideas on what to do, so I prefered an higher ranked school with a more general management profile and a more internationally spendable brand, which I am sure can help also in Italy as a high profile international business school stay so even in Italy. Then if we speak about contacts it is different and your suggest, study where you want to work, stay an objective truth. Mi idea is only: if you are not sure on what to do still and want more doors opened, then go in the best school you can.

In any case, this list is from McKinsey, and it is the top 10 targeted BS in the world (even if LBS didn't send information, it seems) and despite IE is famous for entrepreneurship and strategy, is even here, while Bocconi is not: http://www.bloomberg.com/bw/articles/2012-11-05/mckinseys-go-to-business-schools.

Linkedin is a fantastic instrument but can't say everything about..many people are not on linkedin.

[Edited by Global MBA on Aug 07, 2015]

I don't think this is quite right. I don't think you can assert the primacy of rankings over actual data. Simplifications based on data, like theory and rankings, are inferior to data that measure reality directly. IE is ranked highly because the key element in rankings in salary at purchaseing power parity. Bocconi is a school rooted in the Italian-speaking market; IE is rooted in the Spanish-speaking market and other developing markets. The Spanish MBA market is mostly serving the developing world, which has a skills shortage and where salaries are boosted by PPP calculations. The position of a school like IE which is placing students into Latin America is boosted by PPP calculations. Indeed, only 33% of IE MBAs end up in Europe, while 72% of Bocconi MBAs do.

If you want to work for McKinsey in Latin America then, yes, IE and the other Spanish schools are better than Bocconi. But if you want to work in Europe, then the LinkedIn data are useful.

The Bloomberg chart is cute, but it represents only hiring from one year: LinkedIn reflects more people, over more years. I don't see why you would prefer to use use less data rather than more.

As always, let's remember that hiring is profoundly national. IE is a great school for some countries and not others: and with Bocconi that is also the case.

I agree with your analyses but 33% of IE graduates are practically all students coming from non LAC. So it is a good data. In general, spanish and LAC countries IE students are at least 50%, so if 33% of the other 50% find job in Europe, considering the number of enrolled students in IE MBAs and the one of enrolled students in Bocconi, it means that IE places more people in Europe than Bocconi does. Don't forget that Italy is not a good english speaking country...many my pears at the faculty of economics, also professors, don't know what an MBA is, and they haven't the mandatory requirements to apply for an international one. In many italian universities, in order to win a phd place you need just a 5.5 Ielts overall band score...quite poor isn't it? Bocconi is not an exception, it is a regional school, doesn't ask for particular language proficiency as I know, so I assume a 6.0 or 6.5 band score in Ielts will be enough, as if it ask 7.0 as better business schools do, the cohort can half empty. So no, I don't agree that Bocconi has an international recognition and what gives me right is the diversity you can find there: no more than 20 nationalities represented, so much less international than IE. I know a guy who graduated in Bocconi in Italy, then did a MiM at IE in Spain, and now works in Ernst & Young in a third country. My friends abroad said clearly that Bocconi is always a good choice, but ideal only to remain in Italy, while if you want a more international exposure you should choose something else...like one of the top 5 europeans BS (LBS, Insead, Iese, IE, IMD). Quality of education is much more important than focus, in my opinion. You can better study finance in a non finance focused BS than in a finance focused poor BS. I experimented it on myself and many my pears agree whith it, or McKinsey couldn't recruit people from engineering or physics prestigious faculty preferring them to economics graduated from low ranked institutions ...if you take a bachelor in history at harvard you have many more chance to work in a bank than an economics graduated from the university of Phoenix. At least, this is what I understood after several months of focused researches, and for the same reason I renounced to a master in management at harvard extension school, because it is not considered a true harvard degree from recruiters, and maybe they are right, because I checked the entire list of lecturers and professors and no one is in common within the HBS, so it is a completely different education while it must be still much valuable, in the end is better not to invest in that brand if you are sure that many recruiters who know that will laugh reading it on your cv. With this I mean that opinions of recruiters are very important and they can keep information only reading rankings, where IE is among the top in the world in every rank of the net. Then of course, working in Italy into consulting makes Bocconi the smartest choice. I wouldn't choose it if you want a better strategic and more international management education. You know, if spanish economy is not so great, italian's one is even worst and our Bocconi's professors, who are in government, seem to do all the opposite of what they teach. At least IE was founded by entrepreneurs and they teach exactly what they know to do: entrepreneurship and strategy. I know my country and as I am sure that Bocconi is a good school I can't see it as international as you want to present it. Definetely it is not. I am sure that if with Bocconi you can work into consulting, in Italy and maybe a bit internationally, with IE you can do it in much wider fields and places, and if you want to go into consulting, it is about you to prepare and to pass that certain number of interviews and tests which expects you before to obtain a place in McKinsey.

Don't foget also that IE's MBA is also a case study intensive one...while the most in europe are not....so for people like me who comes from business studies many of the other programs, more theoretical, can result quite repetitive. We should consider this aspect too as a boring and repetitive MBA has the serious risk to bring you nothing than you already had compromising the expected outcomes.

[Edited by Global MBA on Aug 08, 2015]

Sorry, but your claims are not consistent with the data. IE does not place a higher percentage of its students into jobs in Europe. I invite people to read the employment reports, use LinkedIn and confirm the reality for themselves.

I never spoke about percentages but about absolute units. If you say that school X places 72% of students in alpha place, and school X has 50 students, you can't assume that it places more students than school Y does in the same place, when school Y places 33% of its 200 students, because in absolute numbers we have 36 guys against 66..which is almost double. Percentages themselves are meaningless when comparing small programs with big ones.. so I invite people to be more objective too as you didnt isolate important parameters and neither considered the numbers which are behind certain percentages.

[Edited by Global MBA on Aug 08, 2015]

If anyone reading thinks that the best way to get into McKinsey is to attend a school that places a higher absolute number but a much smaller percentage at that firm, then they are certainly not McKinsey material.

I think instead that you lack on very basic statistic knowledges, and this is something which affects every managerial role, not only those at McKinsey. You don't know what parameters isolation is, neither the meaning of the need of asking to yourself the right question before to search for an answer.

Parameter isolation:

You have no information about the quality of that 33%, nor of that 72%. It means that, if 33% of IE students decide to stay in europe (while all others decide to come back in their LAC) and all of them land a job in europe, it means that 100% of people who made that choice obtained it. This hypothesis can also become near to reality if, as you said, many of that 50% coming from LAC are guys who enter their family business..so theu don't want to stay in europe. Instead, if all Bocconi's guys want to land a job in Europe, and this is comprehensible, but then only 72% of them obtain it, it means that only 72% of Bocconi students who want to land a job in Europe then obtain it... while IE students can do it in the 100% of cases. Now do you understand that you have no quality information about this percentages for saying what you say?

The right question:

if you want to know how many students from a school land a job into consulting, it is one thing, but then you obtain the possibilities of landing a job into consulting in comparison with your pears at the same school...not in comparison with all hired guys at a certain company in order to evaluate the power of that school within that company. You have no idea, in the end, about what percentage in McKinsey's working force come from a certain school. So first of all, you need to know what is McKinsey's working force in numbers, and then from which school those guys come from, so only in the end you can say, for example, 2,50% percent of McKinsey's working force comes from Bocconi, or from IE. For doing it, you need absolute values to calculate the weight of a school in the company working force...That list is an example, it represents the number of hired students in a year in McKinsey, and it is a very good data because shows how many candidates were hired from every school, considering the global number of hired students in that year! If you say 20% of Bocconi students come into McKinsey don't say absolute nothing about how many guys will be selected from McKinsey, maybe it is just 2! While your chance stay 20%, it is stupid to consider that you can come into McKinsey after Bocconi while their working force is composed for 1% from Bocconi students, 5% from IE, 10% from Insead, etc. because only in ths way you have quality data about what part of their working force they recruits from every school! So your model is wrong and it is useless to use linkedin if you don't know what and how to search.

I hope you will think more, and better, next time, before to judge people who you don't know. You don't need arrogance for demonstrating your value, but knowledge.

[Edited by Global MBA on Aug 08, 2015]

Your research is wrong also for another reason: you noticed that 150 people hired at McKinsey come from Bocconi, but you didn't distinguish how many of them come from Università Commerciale Luigi Bocconi, which is the University, and how many come from the SDA Bocconi, which is the business school that you are suggesting..the most come from the university and not from the business school. It is like comparing Imperial College London, which it is the second best university in the world for the QS ranking 2015, and the Imperial College London Business school, which is 34. As I said, here in Italy we have not the business school culture...so most students think that only our laurea triennale and laurea specialistica exist...and most graduated coming from Bocconi don't pass for a business school also because a laurea specialistica in Bocconi, as I said, is a good tool for landing a job so many of them don't go to business school before to go in McKinsey but opposite: they are hired at McKinsey within normal Bocconi degree and than they do their prestigious MBA payed from McKinsey itself (and usually, not in Bocconi...but in Harvard, Columbia, Insead, etc). Check linkedin if you don't believe in what I say. The power of Bocconi for landing jobs is in the University where you take your first level and second level degrees until 25 years of age, not in the business school with its masters and MBAs.

I don't know how to use linkedin to make this researches but if if you want to bring consistent data you can do it for us: just search ho many people are hired in McKinsey Italy and from which business school they come from (business schools, not universities). This is what I did, but if I did wrong I am sorry, I am not sure of the correctness of the results; I have searched McKinsey workers in Italy coming from IE BS, SDA Bocconi BS, and Insead BS, and this what I obtained: https://www.linkedin.com/vsearch/p?company=McKinsey&openAdvancedForm=true&companyScope=C&locationType=I&countryCode=it&f_CC=1371&f_ED=13848,12189,12445&rsid=4158785681439023196600&orig=FCTD

If I am correct, considering only Insead, SDA and IE BS in McKinsey Italy, Bocconi SDA brings 13,6% of the working force, IE 34,8%, Insead 51,5%. Now, isolating Insead, so making a direct comparison between IE BS and SDA Bocconi graduates who work in McKinsey Italy, which is what is interesting for us, we have 72% IE and 28% SDA (f I am not wrong with my research, and I am not sure about this as I am new on linkedin. In case correct me please). In order to know the right weight of every BS in a company, in a country, we should know the total number of hired people in McKinsey Italy, and then consider the percentage weight of every school on the total.

[Edited by Global MBA on Aug 08, 2015]