Online PhD/DBA


Duncan

The supervisor is the most important part but the face to face element is useful if it will help you build a support network. HW may be locally known, but faculty will know that little research comes from HW {although I know some good supply chain stuff happens there}. Many of the faculty listed on the EBS MBA are not connected to the school, or even alive. This also list people who have written their study guides.

The supervisor is the most important part but the face to face element is useful if it will help you build a support network. HW may be locally known, but faculty will know that little research comes from HW {although I know some good supply chain stuff happens there}. Many of the faculty listed on the EBS MBA are not connected to the school, or even alive. This also list people who have written their study guides.
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Duncan

Just one thought. HKU allows parttime PhDs, but the FBE does not. Could your research fit into another department, and then you could get a second supervisor from the FBE? Pretty much everything qualitative counts as social science these days.

Just one thought. HKU allows parttime PhDs, but the FBE does not. Could your research fit into another department, and then you could get a second supervisor from the FBE? Pretty much everything qualitative counts as social science these days.
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sts

?..since HW lacks any of the triple crown accreditations and many universities will thus not hire faculty from it....


...and many others will do, particularly in the UK, particularly for a DBA holder. As the DBA is mainly for those with some considerable professional experience typically in senior roles, the outcome is even more about the candidate's overall profile, IMO.

[quote]?..since HW lacks any of the triple crown accreditations and many universities will thus not hire faculty from it....[/quote]

...and many others will do, particularly in the UK, particularly for a DBA holder. As the DBA is mainly for those with some considerable professional experience typically in senior roles, the outcome is even more about the candidate's overall profile, IMO.
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sts

I don't see how we can discuss pros and cons, or make theory, without generalising. With the exception of DBAs which are full time PhD, the general experience is that they are very much less likely to publish in good journals or, as academics, to be able to supervise PhD students.


Do you have supporting data for your claims? If yes, could you please give a clue on that, and mention briefly your method for collection and analysis of that? (If no, there is no further discussion, indeed.)

On the other hand, no matter you have data or not, I think you are mistaken in comparing the two doctoral level academic degrees with different charactersitics by using the same measure i.e. publications. As the DBA is typically for experienced professionals in senior management roles, there is a very important main requirement in addition to a contribution to the relevant theory, which is making a significant impact in a real business setting. Hence, it has another, different kind of measure for rigour and success, perhaps with even greater emphasis. In some cases, publication as an aim can only become relevant for a DBA holder if and when he/she switches career with a step into academia. (Of course, depending on the candidate, the course, the research topic, etc.)

As I said before, I would rather just admit these two as equivalent and different, as the QAA clearly set out.

[quote]I don't see how we can discuss pros and cons, or make theory, without generalising. With the exception of DBAs which are full time PhD, the general experience is that they are very much less likely to publish in good journals or, as academics, to be able to supervise PhD students. [/quote]

Do you have supporting data for your claims? If yes, could you please give a clue on that, and mention briefly your method for collection and analysis of that? (If no, there is no further discussion, indeed.)

On the other hand, no matter you have data or not, I think you are mistaken in comparing the two doctoral level academic degrees with different charactersitics by using the same measure i.e. publications. As the DBA is typically for experienced professionals in senior management roles, there is a very important main requirement in addition to a contribution to the relevant theory, which is making a significant impact in a real business setting. Hence, it has another, different kind of measure for rigour and success, perhaps with even greater emphasis. In some cases, publication as an aim can only become relevant for a DBA holder if and when he/she switches career with a step into academia. (Of course, depending on the candidate, the course, the research topic, etc.)

As I said before, I would rather just admit these two as equivalent and different, as the QAA clearly set out.
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Duncan

Sure: in the process of reading or peer-reviewing hundreds of management papers in highly-ranked journals as part of my work at internationally-accredited UK universities, I never encountered one written by a graduate from a professional doctorate.

Don't misunderstand why I am comparing their ability to contribute to research. If someone wants to teach any subject at an internationally-accredited university, and especially if they want more than hourly-paid teaching, then a good doctorate is a massive asset. Other things being equal, the research you produce will be more attractive to the faculty who hire if you have a PhD rather than a professional doctorate.

Sure: in the process of reading or peer-reviewing hundreds of management papers in highly-ranked journals as part of my work at internationally-accredited UK universities, I never encountered one written by a graduate from a professional doctorate.

Don't misunderstand why I am comparing their ability to contribute to research. If someone wants to teach any subject at an internationally-accredited university, and especially if they want more than hourly-paid teaching, then a good doctorate is a massive asset. Other things being equal, the research you produce will be more attractive to the faculty who hire if you have a PhD rather than a professional doctorate.
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Giggdini

Just one thought. HKU allows parttime PhDs, but the FBE does not. Could your research fit into another department, and then you could get a second supervisor from the FBE? Pretty much everything qualitative counts as social science these days.


this is a very breakthru idea, never think about it. Honestly, you are more familiar how they play. But I also have a self awareness that no one would take me for a PhD as I don't have any network anymore (the Professors that I am familiar with at CUHK when I did my MSc are retired / moved)

[quote]Just one thought. HKU allows parttime PhDs, but the FBE does not. Could your research fit into another department, and then you could get a second supervisor from the FBE? Pretty much everything qualitative counts as social science these days. [/quote]

this is a very breakthru idea, never think about it. Honestly, you are more familiar how they play. But I also have a self awareness that no one would take me for a PhD as I don't have any network anymore (the Professors that I am familiar with at CUHK when I did my MSc are retired / moved)
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Giggdini

The supervisor is the most important part but the face to face element is useful if it will help you build a support network. HW may be locally known, but faculty will know that little research comes from HW {although I know some good supply chain stuff happens there}. Many of the faculty listed on the EBS MBA are not connected to the school, or even alive. This also list people who have written their study guides.


Right. So Aston is a better choice vs EBS in this case.
Inspired by you, I would also look into the distance learning PhD in Management from University of Leicester.

[quote]The supervisor is the most important part but the face to face element is useful if it will help you build a support network. HW may be locally known, but faculty will know that little research comes from HW {although I know some good supply chain stuff happens there}. Many of the faculty listed on the EBS MBA are not connected to the school, or even alive. This also list people who have written their study guides. [/quote]

Right. So Aston is a better choice vs EBS in this case.
Inspired by you, I would also look into the distance learning PhD in Management from University of Leicester.
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Duncan

A friend of mine did the distance learning doctorate at Leicester. The materials very very comprehensive.

A friend of mine did the distance learning doctorate at Leicester. The materials very very comprehensive.
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sts

Sure: in the process of reading or peer-reviewing hundreds of management papers in highly-ranked journals as part of my work at internationally-accredited UK universities, I never encountered one written by a graduate from a professional doctorate.

Don't misunderstand why I am comparing their ability to contribute to research. If someone wants to teach any subject at an internationally-accredited university, and especially if they want more than hourly-paid teaching, then a good doctorate is a massive asset. Other things being equal, the research you produce will be more attractive to the faculty who hire if you have a PhD rather than a professional doctorate.


As for the first paragraph in your response, I can say that what you have written can barely be called data. Even if it is, it seems obviously biased, in my opinion. This is because it is based only on what "you" have been reading, and does not take into the very basic fact that holders of professional doctorates are much less in frequency when compared to holders of PhD.

For your second paragraph, I respect your views, but would like to underline that these are your views, just like mine are mine. In my view, although admittedly a PhD might be seen as an advantage due to its well-established status for much longer time, the attractiveness of a professional doctorate holder would depend on many other factors such as the overall career, the vacancy, the school(s), etc.

[Edited by sts on Oct 17, 2017]

[quote]Sure: in the process of reading or peer-reviewing hundreds of management papers in highly-ranked journals as part of my work at internationally-accredited UK universities, I never encountered one written by a graduate from a professional doctorate.

Don't misunderstand why I am comparing their ability to contribute to research. If someone wants to teach any subject at an internationally-accredited university, and especially if they want more than hourly-paid teaching, then a good doctorate is a massive asset. Other things being equal, the research you produce will be more attractive to the faculty who hire if you have a PhD rather than a professional doctorate.[/quote]

As for the first paragraph in your response, I can say that what you have written can barely be called data. Even if it is, it seems obviously biased, in my opinion. This is because it is based only on what "you" have been reading, and does not take into the very basic fact that holders of professional doctorates are much less in frequency when compared to holders of PhD.

For your second paragraph, I respect your views, but would like to underline that these are your views, just like mine are mine. In my view, although admittedly a PhD might be seen as an advantage due to its well-established status for much longer time, the attractiveness of a professional doctorate holder would depend on many other factors such as the overall career, the vacancy, the school(s), etc.
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Duncan

Well, it's up to you if you consider it 'barely' data, but it certainly is data and that is more than you are offering. In particular, I can say that these are papers are not my random selection, but are overwhelmingly the results of structured literature reviews, totaling over 7,000 papers.

Indeed, many different factors can attract a school but, in the case of the other person, many of these factors will be the same whether or not they have a doctorate. The choice is: Ph.D. or professional doctorate? Oher things being equal, I cannot imagine any situation where having a professional doctorate would make this person more attractive to a hiring faculty member than a professional doctorate. Can you?

[Edited by Duncan on Oct 17, 2017]

Well, it's up to you if you consider it 'barely' data, but it certainly is data and that is more than you are offering. In particular, I can say that these are papers are not my random selection, but are overwhelmingly the results of structured literature reviews, totaling over 7,000 papers.

Indeed, many different factors can attract a school but, in the case of the other person, many of these factors will be the same whether or not they have a doctorate. The choice is: Ph.D. or professional doctorate? Oher things being equal, I cannot imagine any situation where having a professional doctorate would make this person more attractive to a hiring faculty member than a professional doctorate. Can you?
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sts

I can, provided a fruitful blend of professional management experience and professional-practice-based doctoral level research. This is up to the person.

I can, provided a fruitful blend of professional management experience and professional-practice-based doctoral level research. This is up to the person.
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Duncan

That is not an answer to my question. I am not asking if you can be useful as an academic, I am asking: wouldn't the same person be more attractive (to most hiring faculty members) with a PhD from a business school than with its DBA?

[Edited by Duncan on Oct 18, 2017]

That is not an answer to my question. I am not asking if you can be useful as an academic, I am asking: wouldn't the same person be more attractive (to most hiring faculty members) with a PhD from a business school than with its DBA?
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sts

My answer was exactly for that question, indeed.

My answer was exactly for that question, indeed.
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George Pat...

Heriot Watt EBS is now also offering PhD on their distance learning

Take a look at Research excellence framework - REF 2014 (this is the latest one I think, next one should be on 2021) it shows HW on the top third in UK in terms of research. I think it will be one of the best available *distance learning* PhDs (partly because there are very few options for phd distance learning really)

(keep in mind that there were many complains that some universities manipulate the game to increase their REF ranking - not saying this applies to HW or anywhere else. Just keep it in mind when checking REF in general)

[Edited by George Patsoulis on Nov 28, 2017]

Heriot Watt EBS is now also offering PhD on their distance learning

Take a look at Research excellence framework - REF 2014 (this is the latest one I think, next one should be on 2021) it shows HW on the top third in UK in terms of research. I think it will be one of the best available *distance learning* PhDs (partly because there are very few options for phd distance learning really)

(keep in mind that there were many complains that some universities manipulate the game to increase their REF ranking - not saying this applies to HW or anywhere else. Just keep it in mind when checking REF in general)
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Duncan

EBS is 48th out of 101 UK business schools, so not quite in the top third: https://www.timeshighereducation.com/sites/default/files/Attachments/2014/12/17/x/o/z/sub-14-01.pdf If someone wanted to work in academia, they would be very strongly advised to look for a school with AACSB accreditation, if only because so many career paths lead through those schools and they tend to not hire from unaccredited schools.

EBS is 48th out of 101 UK business schools, so not quite in the top third: https://www.timeshighereducation.com/sites/default/files/Attachments/2014/12/17/x/o/z/sub-14-01.pdf If someone wanted to work in academia, they would be very strongly advised to look for a school with AACSB accreditation, if only because so many career paths lead through those schools and they tend to not hire from unaccredited schools.
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George Pat...

Since we are talking about PhD, I was referring specifically to the university research ranking (REF2014), not the business school ranking which, in addition to reasearch, depends also on the non-reasearch degrees like MBA and MSc

Anyway, those that do want a distance learning PhD have only few options that worth mentioning (Leicester, Heriot Watt, Iceland, and Exeter (1 meet / month, if that counts as distance learning)). Maybe I am missing/forgetting a couple, but limited options indeed.
And it is probably people that already have teaching experience? (otherwise they should choose traditional PhD with TA opportunities).

Since we are talking about PhD, I was referring specifically to the university research ranking (REF2014), not the business school ranking which, in addition to reasearch, depends also on the non-reasearch degrees like MBA and MSc

Anyway, those that do want a distance learning PhD have only few options that worth mentioning (Leicester, Heriot Watt, Iceland, and Exeter (1 meet / month, if that counts as distance learning)). Maybe I am missing/forgetting a couple, but limited options indeed.
And it is probably people that already have teaching experience? (otherwise they should choose traditional PhD with TA opportunities).
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Duncan

Try clicking on my link, which it to the REF for business and management. I assume you are thinking about some other REF ranking.

I don't think it's the case that people who use DL doctorates mostly have teaching experience. That is certainly not the case with students in professional doctorates. I thinl they simply prefer to not attend local universities.

Try clicking on my link, which it to the REF for business and management. I assume you are thinking about some other REF ranking.

I don't think it's the case that people who use DL doctorates mostly have teaching experience. That is certainly not the case with students in professional doctorates. I thinl they simply prefer to not attend local universities.
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George Pat...

fair enough my bad about the ranking, 48th in UK is still better than most of the planet though.
and higher than Leicester(54th). That makes HW, likely, in the top3 options for DL PhD, for those that want distance learning

fair enough my bad about the ranking, 48th in UK is still better than most of the planet though.
and higher than Leicester(54th). That makes HW, likely, in the top3 options for DL PhD, for those that want distance learning
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