Online PhD/DBA


Efan
Hi to everyone!

I am writing here to get your advice on a specific case that I am totally confused and do not know what to do. I hold a BSc and an MBA from the UK and for personal and professional reasons I also wanted to do a PhD/DBA. My goals after successful completion of the proframme would be the following:

a) First, to be eligible to work in academia, mainly as a visiting lecturer and not as full-time employed by a university (however, this is also an option).
b) As a secondary reason to be able to have another paper to excel in my career at the private sector.

I am currently working for a multinational consumer goods company as a financial analyst. My priority is to keep working in the private sector but also combine my main job with lecturing as a visiting lecturer at a local university (in the EU), only because of personal interest in teaching. Due to personal reasons (unable to attend a full-time PhD/DBA due to my working hours) my only option is an online degree. I know the pros/cons of this option, but since this is the only one I have I would like your advice on the following two questions:

1) Which type of Doctorate degree you think that better fits my needs, a PhD or a DBA? I guess since my main focus is on academia, a PhD would make a better fit, right?

2) Since the cost is a big factor and since all online degrees I have found are not tuition-free as one does not work for the university to get it for free, I was looking for a very reasonable cost-wise programme. Therefore, I have found so far the following universities:

California Pacific University (CPU), DBA and PhD options
Swiss Management Center (SMC University), DBA option or a dual degree option (DBA from SMC University and a PhD from University Central of Nicaragua)

What do you think of the three options above (CPU, SMC DBA or SMC DBA+PhD dual-degree)? Which one would you go for and why?

Thank you very much in advance!

Cheers!
Efan
Hi to everyone!

I am writing here to get your advice on a specific case that I am totally confused and do not know what to do. I hold a BSc and an MBA from the UK and for personal and professional reasons I also wanted to do a PhD/DBA. My goals after successful completion of the proframme would be the following:

a) First, to be eligible to work in academia, mainly as a visiting lecturer and not as full-time employed by a university (however, this is also an option).
b) As a secondary reason to be able to have another paper to excel in my career at the private sector.

I am currently working for a multinational consumer goods company as a financial analyst. My priority is to keep working in the private sector but also combine my main job with lecturing as a visiting lecturer at a local university (in the EU), only because of personal interest in teaching. Due to personal reasons (unable to attend a full-time PhD/DBA due to my working hours) my only option is an online degree. I know the pros/cons of this option, but since this is the only one I have I would like your advice on the following two questions:

1) Which type of Doctorate degree you think that better fits my needs, a PhD or a DBA? I guess since my main focus is on academia, a PhD would make a better fit, right?

2) Since the cost is a big factor and since all online degrees I have found are not tuition-free as one does not work for the university to get it for free, I was looking for a very reasonable cost-wise programme. Therefore, I have found so far the following universities:

California Pacific University (CPU), DBA and PhD options
Swiss Management Center (SMC University), DBA option or a dual degree option (DBA from SMC University and a PhD from University Central of Nicaragua)

What do you think of the three options above (CPU, SMC DBA or SMC DBA+PhD dual-degree)? Which one would you go for and why?

Thank you very much in advance!

Cheers!
Efan
quote
Duncan
These are terrible universities. A college that would accept a PhD from these schools would almost certainly not require a PhD at all. Why not attend the one of the closer traditional universities to you which allows a part-time PhD in management?
These are terrible universities. A college that would accept a PhD from these schools would almost certainly not require a PhD at all. Why not attend the one of the closer traditional universities to you which allows a part-time PhD in management?
quote
Efan
Hi Duncan,

Thanks a lot for your reply! To be honest, unfortunately I was expecting more or less this reply as I totally understand the reason you say that. Unfortunately, the local accredited universities offer PhD programmes that have either afternoon classes that unfortunately I cannot attend since they start before I leave work (working in finance as I am sure you know has quite an intensive and long working hours :( .. ) or morning classes which obviously again are not suitable. I have also checked other options of online courses from fairly reputed universities, such as the University of Leicester PhD (although its School of Management is not that good, in terms of research I think is scoring well) or even the University of Liverpool DBA (although I do not like their online offerings - seems kind of business and not a university programme) but they charge high fees that I don't think makes sense in my case to pay for. In regard to US-based universities, these unfortunately are totally out of my league budget wise as the fees are extremely high. So, if I could sum up all of my thoughts, I would like to ask you the following:

a) Do you know any other university that offers an online PhD or DBA in reasonable costs (not more than 10-12k for the full programme)? I have searched quite a lot and could not find any other options for a DBA or a PhD in business studies at this budget.

b) Is there any alternative option to the PhD/DBA that could help me go after my goals? As said initially I have a BSc in Economics and an MBA. Is there something else that could pair with my degrees and make me eligible to teach? Maybe an MSc in Education? However, even in this case I still need to find online options.

c) If say in the worst scenario I still go for one of the two University options mentioned above, which one has even a slight edge over the other?

Thank you very much in advance!

Efan
Hi Duncan,

Thanks a lot for your reply! To be honest, unfortunately I was expecting more or less this reply as I totally understand the reason you say that. Unfortunately, the local accredited universities offer PhD programmes that have either afternoon classes that unfortunately I cannot attend since they start before I leave work (working in finance as I am sure you know has quite an intensive and long working hours :( .. ) or morning classes which obviously again are not suitable. I have also checked other options of online courses from fairly reputed universities, such as the University of Leicester PhD (although its School of Management is not that good, in terms of research I think is scoring well) or even the University of Liverpool DBA (although I do not like their online offerings - seems kind of business and not a university programme) but they charge high fees that I don't think makes sense in my case to pay for. In regard to US-based universities, these unfortunately are totally out of my league budget wise as the fees are extremely high. So, if I could sum up all of my thoughts, I would like to ask you the following:

a) Do you know any other university that offers an online PhD or DBA in reasonable costs (not more than 10-12k for the full programme)? I have searched quite a lot and could not find any other options for a DBA or a PhD in business studies at this budget.

b) Is there any alternative option to the PhD/DBA that could help me go after my goals? As said initially I have a BSc in Economics and an MBA. Is there something else that could pair with my degrees and make me eligible to teach? Maybe an MSc in Education? However, even in this case I still need to find online options.

c) If say in the worst scenario I still go for one of the two University options mentioned above, which one has even a slight edge over the other?

Thank you very much in advance!

Efan
quote
Duncan
I don't know where you are but, of course, if you expand your geographical scope you'll find real, state-recognised, universities that teach on weekends, or in block weeks or whatever.

There are also universities that have external PhD candidates: almost all German universities for example will allow external candidates to submit. That's very inexpensive.

The for-profit schools you mention, honestly they are one level above diploma mills, will not get you in to teach at anywhere that won't accept your MBA. If there is any chance you might ever want a full-time role then you'll want a real university.

The DBA is, of course, not well respected (other than the Harvard DBA, which is a renamed PhD).

If I were you, I would really do everything I could to attend a real university part-time or by blended learning for a PhD. After that, either an external PhD or a PhD by published work will be the way forward.

You'll need some leverage to get there. Do you have access too any private data that would interest a potential PhD supervisor? Write something thoughtful. Send it to the 50 best academics on your topic around the world and explain that you want to co-author something to develop your ideas and put your data to work. Write a great paper, and then use that to get the attraction of a supervisor at a university that will support an external PhD or PhD by published work.
I don't know where you are but, of course, if you expand your geographical scope you'll find real, state-recognised, universities that teach on weekends, or in block weeks or whatever.

There are also universities that have external PhD candidates: almost all German universities for example will allow external candidates to submit. That's very inexpensive.

The for-profit schools you mention, honestly they are one level above diploma mills, will not get you in to teach at anywhere that won't accept your MBA. If there is any chance you might ever want a full-time role then you'll want a real university.

The DBA is, of course, not well respected (other than the Harvard DBA, which is a renamed PhD).

If I were you, I would really do everything I could to attend a real university part-time or by blended learning for a PhD. After that, either an external PhD or a PhD by published work will be the way forward.

You'll need some leverage to get there. Do you have access too any private data that would interest a potential PhD supervisor? Write something thoughtful. Send it to the 50 best academics on your topic around the world and explain that you want to co-author something to develop your ideas and put your data to work. Write a great paper, and then use that to get the attraction of a supervisor at a university that will support an external PhD or PhD by published work.
quote
Efan
Hi Duncan!

What can I say?! Thank you very much for the extremely useful information! That has been really enlightening! I just have two questions in regard to your reply.

First, why do you say that DBA is not well-respected? For example, if going only after a business career (and not in academia) wouldn't a DBA make more sense than a PhD? Since the DBA I guess is more applicable to the real world than the more research-oriented PhD, I would assume that companies would value a DBA higher than a PhD, just because it fits their needs better. If say taking a DBA form a top-10 UK business school, even not the very top, something like Bradford-Aston-Henley or even Durham wouldn't count as a good value to companies over a PhD?

As for my second question, do you have any suggestions of a couple of German universities that would accept an exterior PhD student? I am located in Finland, so also Nordic universities that would accept such scheme would make sense, probably even more, but unfortunately I do not know any that would accept that. So, in case you know something from your experience, this would be extremely valuable to let me know about.

Finally, one last question a bit different to the initial posting. This is in regard to Coursera Specialisations. Does it make sense to you to pay for a Specialisation? I am not talking about any of them but for some specific I have noticed, like the Wharton's in Business Analysis, the Darden's in Business Strategy, or the Uni of Illinois at Urbana-Champagne in Digital Marketing. These are all well respected schools, especially Wharton and if talking about a whole specialisation that includes also a final project and not just a single course, would it make sense to pay this $500+ for carrying a Wharton/Darden specialisation? Would employers value this more than just a single course or in general would this make sense to businesses?

Thank you very much in advance for everything!

Efan
Hi Duncan!

What can I say?! Thank you very much for the extremely useful information! That has been really enlightening! I just have two questions in regard to your reply.

First, why do you say that DBA is not well-respected? For example, if going only after a business career (and not in academia) wouldn't a DBA make more sense than a PhD? Since the DBA I guess is more applicable to the real world than the more research-oriented PhD, I would assume that companies would value a DBA higher than a PhD, just because it fits their needs better. If say taking a DBA form a top-10 UK business school, even not the very top, something like Bradford-Aston-Henley or even Durham wouldn't count as a good value to companies over a PhD?

As for my second question, do you have any suggestions of a couple of German universities that would accept an exterior PhD student? I am located in Finland, so also Nordic universities that would accept such scheme would make sense, probably even more, but unfortunately I do not know any that would accept that. So, in case you know something from your experience, this would be extremely valuable to let me know about.

Finally, one last question a bit different to the initial posting. This is in regard to Coursera Specialisations. Does it make sense to you to pay for a Specialisation? I am not talking about any of them but for some specific I have noticed, like the Wharton's in Business Analysis, the Darden's in Business Strategy, or the Uni of Illinois at Urbana-Champagne in Digital Marketing. These are all well respected schools, especially Wharton and if talking about a whole specialisation that includes also a final project and not just a single course, would it make sense to pay this $500+ for carrying a Wharton/Darden specialisation? Would employers value this more than just a single course or in general would this make sense to businesses?

Thank you very much in advance for everything!

Efan
quote
Duncan
1. If you want to work in business, then the added value of a DBA is very limited: which roles really want managers who can study one problem over years? It would be better to take an EMBA if your MBA is not from a top 50 global school. I really don't accept the rhetoric that the DBA is more applicable. In the DBA, you describe a business problem and apply MBA tools to it. In the PhD you develop theory from data. I think the PhD approach is more valuable when applied to the real world because theory is transferrable. Yes a DBA from a top school is better than an PhD from a no-name school for employers, but you are not mentioning top-teir schools in your first post. The DBA is, generally, a luxury good rather than a route into academia. For example, in a traditional PhD (like the one I am taking) I have a lot of coursework beyond core methods, I work as a teaching assistant, I am an assistant o professors on a wide range of research projects, I get training as a teacher and HEA membership and meet my supervisor frequently. That is great training for academia, and few DBAs do any of that. I don't see how a DBA can really supervise disserations, for example, without broader training in methods other than the ones you use yourself.

2. As far as I know all German state universities allow external PhD candidates. However, you would need to find a supervisor who wanted to help you and with whom you had a common language. I guess it might be the same in Scandinavia and Benelux. This google search will show you how broad it is in Germany: https://www.google.co.uk/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=site%3A.de+external+PhD+candidates But you will need to write something academic and use that as your hook to look worth the bother. I, for example, pitched into highly relevant potential supervisors in Munich and could not even get a phone call. You will need to show that your research topic will connect with theirs valuably.

3. A naive employer might value a specialisation but, honestly, I don't see if being more impressive than any other verified certificate course.

[Edited by Duncan on Nov 12, 2015]

1. If you want to work in business, then the added value of a DBA is very limited: which roles really want managers who can study one problem over years? It would be better to take an EMBA if your MBA is not from a top 50 global school. I really don't accept the rhetoric that the DBA is more applicable. In the DBA, you describe a business problem and apply MBA tools to it. In the PhD you develop theory from data. I think the PhD approach is more valuable when applied to the real world because theory is transferrable. Yes a DBA from a top school is better than an PhD from a no-name school for employers, but you are not mentioning top-teir schools in your first post. The DBA is, generally, a luxury good rather than a route into academia. For example, in a traditional PhD (like the one I am taking) I have a lot of coursework beyond core methods, I work as a teaching assistant, I am an assistant o professors on a wide range of research projects, I get training as a teacher and HEA membership and meet my supervisor frequently. That is great training for academia, and few DBAs do any of that. I don't see how a DBA can really supervise disserations, for example, without broader training in methods other than the ones you use yourself.

2. As far as I know all German state universities allow external PhD candidates. However, you would need to find a supervisor who wanted to help you and with whom you had a common language. I guess it might be the same in Scandinavia and Benelux. This google search will show you how broad it is in Germany: https://www.google.co.uk/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=site%3A.de+external+PhD+candidates But you will need to write something academic and use that as your hook to look worth the bother. I, for example, pitched into highly relevant potential supervisors in Munich and could not even get a phone call. You will need to show that your research topic will connect with theirs valuably.

3. A naive employer might value a specialisation but, honestly, I don't see if being more impressive than any other verified certificate course.
quote
Efan
Thanks a lot again for your reply, Duncan!

1) Ok, I see your viewpoint! Yes, I was not talking about the DBAs I had mentioned initially, I was talking in general about good DBAs based on your saying about the value of a DBA against a PhD. But your explanation is pretty insightful, so thanks a lot for that! Basically, I believe many people might be confused over a DBA-PhD since a majority of schools 'sell' the DBA in very high prices and obviously7 market it accordingly, creating a perception that this is the pinnacle of academic degrees one can have when working in businesses.

As for my MBA, I had done a full-time MBA at Bradford quite some years ago but not the Exec. MBA. Would it make any sense in that case to get another MBA but an Executive one, as you said?

2) Thanks a lot for the information about German universities and the link! I will also check with nearby universities (such as Aalto, Hanken, Stockholm Uni, Lund, Uppsala, maybe Turku and Oulu as well - I guess they are all well respected, especially the first five and much better than SMC and CPU) to see about the option of external PhD candidate and if they allow it I will try to find a supervisor after preparing my proposal.

3) As for the specialisation, I thought that since you also need to make a final project it will be of higher value than just taking stand-alone the courses, since in most cases these are evaluated based on quizzes. And a specialisation from a school like Wharton or even Darden I thought it might be appealing to an employer, even if offered through Coursera. I don't know if my perception is valid though! Also I do not know if it is worth spending 500+ dollars to acquire such specialisation qualification.

Cheers!

Efan
Thanks a lot again for your reply, Duncan!

1) Ok, I see your viewpoint! Yes, I was not talking about the DBAs I had mentioned initially, I was talking in general about good DBAs based on your saying about the value of a DBA against a PhD. But your explanation is pretty insightful, so thanks a lot for that! Basically, I believe many people might be confused over a DBA-PhD since a majority of schools 'sell' the DBA in very high prices and obviously7 market it accordingly, creating a perception that this is the pinnacle of academic degrees one can have when working in businesses.

As for my MBA, I had done a full-time MBA at Bradford quite some years ago but not the Exec. MBA. Would it make any sense in that case to get another MBA but an Executive one, as you said?

2) Thanks a lot for the information about German universities and the link! I will also check with nearby universities (such as Aalto, Hanken, Stockholm Uni, Lund, Uppsala, maybe Turku and Oulu as well - I guess they are all well respected, especially the first five and much better than SMC and CPU) to see about the option of external PhD candidate and if they allow it I will try to find a supervisor after preparing my proposal.

3) As for the specialisation, I thought that since you also need to make a final project it will be of higher value than just taking stand-alone the courses, since in most cases these are evaluated based on quizzes. And a specialisation from a school like Wharton or even Darden I thought it might be appealing to an employer, even if offered through Coursera. I don't know if my perception is valid though! Also I do not know if it is worth spending 500+ dollars to acquire such specialisation qualification.

Cheers!

Efan
quote
Duncan
1. Well, Bradford is pretty good so few MBA schools would accept you, but perhaps something like the AMP at Harvard?

2. The Nordic schools you mentioned are all excellent choices.

3. $500 is nothing but, really, will employers really value that?
1. Well, Bradford is pretty good so few MBA schools would accept you, but perhaps something like the AMP at Harvard?

2. The Nordic schools you mentioned are all excellent choices.

3. $500 is nothing but, really, will employers really value that?
quote
Efan
1) Sorry, Duncan, can you please explain your sentence? Didn't get the meaning of the first part, 'Well, Bradford is pretty good so few MBA schools would accept you'.. Do you mean Bradford is good or not good enough? Because later on you say few schools would accept me.

2) Yeah, and maybe I could give it a try with a couple of Norwegian and Danish, like NHH/BI and CBS/Aarhus, but let's see.

3) Well, indeed, $500 is not much but it is always in correlation to what you get for that amount. Just an absolute number says nothing,as for peanuts that's an extreme amount but for a car is a minimum.. :) So, when saying if it is worth spending this amount on a Wharton specialisation, it was based on whether this would have any serious impact on a CV or to an employer, of course in my case that I already hold an MBA. :)

Efan
1) Sorry, Duncan, can you please explain your sentence? Didn't get the meaning of the first part, 'Well, Bradford is pretty good so few MBA schools would accept you'.. Do you mean Bradford is good or not good enough? Because later on you say few schools would accept me.

2) Yeah, and maybe I could give it a try with a couple of Norwegian and Danish, like NHH/BI and CBS/Aarhus, but let's see.

3) Well, indeed, $500 is not much but it is always in correlation to what you get for that amount. Just an absolute number says nothing,as for peanuts that's an extreme amount but for a car is a minimum.. :) So, when saying if it is worth spending this amount on a Wharton specialisation, it was based on whether this would have any serious impact on a CV or to an employer, of course in my case that I already hold an MBA. :)

Efan
quote
Duncan
1. If you have a terrible MBA then good schools will let you take a second MBA. If you have a good MBA, as you do, then they normally will not let you take an EMBA because someone else will benefit more from your seat.

3. I can't see it making an impact on your CV unless you honestly think it will impact your skills.
1. If you have a terrible MBA then good schools will let you take a second MBA. If you have a good MBA, as you do, then they normally will not let you take an EMBA because someone else will benefit more from your seat.

3. I can't see it making an impact on your CV unless you honestly think it will impact your skills.
quote
cvm
Hi Efan,

Aside Duncan's advices based on his significant experience in this domain, I would add:

1. If you are interested in some after MBA programs (other than PhD/DBA), you might look at:

MAM @ Yale (Master of Advanced Management)
http://som.yale.edu/our-programs/master-advanced-management

MSBA @ USC / Marshall (Master of Science in Business Administration)
http://www.marshall.usc.edu/masters

Diplomas in Strategic Management @ Oxford (Said Business School)
- Financial Strategy
- Global Business
- Organizational Leadership
- Strategy and Innovation
http://www.sbs.ox.ac.uk/programmes/degrees/diplomas

Global Degrees @ NYU University (Stern School of Business)
- MS in Global Finance
- MS in Risk Management
- MS in Business Analytics
http://www.stern.nyu.edu/programs-admissions/global-degrees

Executive Masters @ HEC Paris
- Executive MSc in Finance
- Consulting and Coaching for Change (with Said Business School)
http://www.exed.hec.edu/themes/coaching

Executive Master in Consulting and Coaching for Change @ Insead
http://specialised-degrees.insead.edu/executive-master-in-consulting-and-coaching-for-change/

Executive Education @ Harvard University (HBS)
- PLD (Program for Leadership Development)
- GMP (General Management Program)- HBS’s EMBA alternative
- AMP (Advanced Management Program)
http://www.exed.hbs.edu/programs/pld/Pages/default.aspx
http://www.exed.hbs.edu/programs/gmp/Pages/default.aspx
http://www.exed.hbs.edu/programs/amp/Pages/default.aspx

Executive Education @ Stanford University (Stanford Business School)
http://www.gsb.stanford.edu/exed/sep/

I saw that you have financial background so, there are some great schools above that have financial programs for people like you.

2. Regarding the PhD vs. DBA, Duncan is right. I have done some research by myself and saw that generally a DBA is not so well perceived in comparison to the PhD. However, I have listed below some great schools that offers part time PhDs, Exec PhDs and DBAs. You can get a nice rounded picture about the subject.

Exec Doctorate in Business @ Georgia State University (Robinson)
http://edb.robinson.gsu.edu/

PhD and DBA @ Cranfield University School of Management
http://www.som.cranfield.ac.uk/som/p982/Programmes-and-Executive-Development/Doctorates/PhD-or-Executive-Doctorate

Executive PhD @ Cass & Tias (Tilburg)
http://www.cass.city.ac.uk/courses/executive-phd

DBA @ Lingnan and Emlyon
http://www.lingnan.sysu.edu.cn/DBA/dbapro.asp

DBA @ IE
http://www.ie.edu/business-school/degrees/doctorate-business-administration


Phd @ HHL (Part Time)
http://www.hhl.de/en/programs/doctoral-program/

PhD @ WHU (Part Time / External - possible)
https://www.whu.edu/en/programs/doctoral-program/

PhD (part time) @ RSM (Erasmus University)
http://www.rsm.nl/research/part-time-phd/overview/

DBA @ Grenoble School of Management
http://en.grenoble-em.com/doctorate-business-administration-dba
http://en.grenoble-em.com/dba-doctoral-programs

DBA @ Durham Business School (Durham University)
https://www.dur.ac.uk/business/programmes/dba/

DBA/Exec PhD @ Nyenrode
http://www.nyenrode.nl/Education/doctorateprograms/EDP/Pages/default.aspx

EDBA @ Paris Dauphine
http://edba.dauphine.fr/en.html

Regards,
Hi Efan,

Aside Duncan's advices based on his significant experience in this domain, I would add:

1. If you are interested in some after MBA programs (other than PhD/DBA), you might look at:

MAM @ Yale (Master of Advanced Management)
http://som.yale.edu/our-programs/master-advanced-management

MSBA @ USC / Marshall (Master of Science in Business Administration)
http://www.marshall.usc.edu/masters

Diplomas in Strategic Management @ Oxford (Said Business School)
- Financial Strategy
- Global Business
- Organizational Leadership
- Strategy and Innovation
http://www.sbs.ox.ac.uk/programmes/degrees/diplomas

Global Degrees @ NYU University (Stern School of Business)
- MS in Global Finance
- MS in Risk Management
- MS in Business Analytics
http://www.stern.nyu.edu/programs-admissions/global-degrees

Executive Masters @ HEC Paris
- Executive MSc in Finance
- Consulting and Coaching for Change (with Said Business School)
http://www.exed.hec.edu/themes/coaching

Executive Master in Consulting and Coaching for Change @ Insead
http://specialised-degrees.insead.edu/executive-master-in-consulting-and-coaching-for-change/

Executive Education @ Harvard University (HBS)
- PLD (Program for Leadership Development)
- GMP (General Management Program)- HBS’s EMBA alternative
- AMP (Advanced Management Program)
http://www.exed.hbs.edu/programs/pld/Pages/default.aspx
http://www.exed.hbs.edu/programs/gmp/Pages/default.aspx
http://www.exed.hbs.edu/programs/amp/Pages/default.aspx

Executive Education @ Stanford University (Stanford Business School)
http://www.gsb.stanford.edu/exed/sep/

I saw that you have financial background so, there are some great schools above that have financial programs for people like you.

2. Regarding the PhD vs. DBA, Duncan is right. I have done some research by myself and saw that generally a DBA is not so well perceived in comparison to the PhD. However, I have listed below some great schools that offers part time PhDs, Exec PhDs and DBAs. You can get a nice rounded picture about the subject.

Exec Doctorate in Business @ Georgia State University (Robinson)
http://edb.robinson.gsu.edu/

PhD and DBA @ Cranfield University School of Management
http://www.som.cranfield.ac.uk/som/p982/Programmes-and-Executive-Development/Doctorates/PhD-or-Executive-Doctorate

Executive PhD @ Cass & Tias (Tilburg)
http://www.cass.city.ac.uk/courses/executive-phd

DBA @ Lingnan and Emlyon
http://www.lingnan.sysu.edu.cn/DBA/dbapro.asp

DBA @ IE
http://www.ie.edu/business-school/degrees/doctorate-business-administration


Phd @ HHL (Part Time)
http://www.hhl.de/en/programs/doctoral-program/

PhD @ WHU (Part Time / External - possible)
https://www.whu.edu/en/programs/doctoral-program/

PhD (part time) @ RSM (Erasmus University)
http://www.rsm.nl/research/part-time-phd/overview/

DBA @ Grenoble School of Management
http://en.grenoble-em.com/doctorate-business-administration-dba
http://en.grenoble-em.com/dba-doctoral-programs

DBA @ Durham Business School (Durham University)
https://www.dur.ac.uk/business/programmes/dba/

DBA/Exec PhD @ Nyenrode
http://www.nyenrode.nl/Education/doctorateprograms/EDP/Pages/default.aspx

EDBA @ Paris Dauphine
http://edba.dauphine.fr/en.html

Regards,







quote
Duncan
Some of these are really terribly weak. The Paris Dauphine website even warns students that they will not be able to teach with the degree, and that they cannot use the title "Doctor".
Some of these are really terribly weak. The Paris Dauphine website even warns students that they will not be able to teach with the degree, and that they cannot use the title "Doctor".
quote
sts
Hello all,

I will share my humble views on this topic, drawing on my ongoing experience as a DBA participant for just over one year as of now. In addition to this, I also made some significant reading about the DBA vs PhD divide prior to joining a DBA programme.

1. DBA, the UK DBA in particular since this is the one I know better, is a research doctorate, just like a PhD. The difference lies mainly on the type of research to be conducted, with some differences also present in the admission criteria and programme structure. There is some significant research on this very topic in the literature, for interested readers. (Actually for admission to a UK DBA, a relevant Master’s degree is required in almost all cases, to the best of my knowledge, along with some significant management and/or other senior level experience, which makes the admission criteria relatively more rigorous, in my view.)

2. The views about the reputation of the DBA stated here in this forum topic are highly subjective, as is the term reputation itself, and seemingly lacking solid evidence (Subjectivity is also ok, by the way, but just know that as it is.). It is for sure that the PhD is the most common and established doctorate globally, however also we should note that professional doctorates, with the DBA being probably the most well-known of them, have emerged from needs. To put it simply, with a well-known phrase, “to bridge the gap between academia and business”.
For example, here is an excerpt from a The Economist article, which can be accessed via the link below: (also notice the heading: The disposable academic: Why doing a PhD is often a waste of time)
“(…)Whining PhD students are nothing new, but there seem to be genuine problems with the system that produces research doctorates (the practical “professional doctorates” in fields such as law, business and medicine have a more obvious value).(…)”
http://www.economist.com/node/17723223
I have no intention of discrediting a PhD. Actually, I have respect for all kinds of true research endeavour. I just wanted give an example for how opinions may vary about this.

3. Many well-respected universities offer DBA programmes, and new ones continue to join. To count just a few; UK: Durham, Warwick, Manchester, etc., US: University of Florida (Warrington), University of Wisconsin (Whitewater), Washington University in St. Louis (Olin), etc. This is a supportive indicator, in my view, since I don’t think that prestigious institutions like these would put their reputations at risk by offering non-reputable degree programmes.

4. Yes, the DBA is mainly for senior professionals who want to develop doctoral level research capabilities, however a career in academia is also possible with a DBA, since it is a research doctorate. This can easily be verified by doing a simple Linkedin search. This is especially true for a part-time academic career along with an ongoing professional career.

Before finishing, @Efan, I can suggest that perhaps you may have a look at Middlesex University (London) DBA programme, which I think can be suitable for your requirements, along with many other alternatives, of course. The programme has little mandatory on-campus attendance, however offers full flexibility for face-to-face contact and on-campus study. The University has some significant experience in WBL (work-based learning), which is an approach closely related to a professional-practice based research doctorate. The University’s Business School is listed among the QS Global Top 200, and the University itself is ranked among the global top 700 and top 800 in the QS and THE rankings respectively. (Yes, I am currently studying there, so I am taking care not to give an impression of even a smallest bias. Most of what I have written here are therefore not my own experience or evaluation, but independently published facts and figures.)

[Edited by sts on Nov 13, 2015]

Hello all,

I will share my humble views on this topic, drawing on my ongoing experience as a DBA participant for just over one year as of now. In addition to this, I also made some significant reading about the DBA vs PhD divide prior to joining a DBA programme.

1. DBA, the UK DBA in particular since this is the one I know better, is a research doctorate, just like a PhD. The difference lies mainly on the type of research to be conducted, with some differences also present in the admission criteria and programme structure. There is some significant research on this very topic in the literature, for interested readers. (Actually for admission to a UK DBA, a relevant Master’s degree is required in almost all cases, to the best of my knowledge, along with some significant management and/or other senior level experience, which makes the admission criteria relatively more rigorous, in my view.)

2. The views about the reputation of the DBA stated here in this forum topic are highly subjective, as is the term reputation itself, and seemingly lacking solid evidence (Subjectivity is also ok, by the way, but just know that as it is.). It is for sure that the PhD is the most common and established doctorate globally, however also we should note that professional doctorates, with the DBA being probably the most well-known of them, have emerged from needs. To put it simply, with a well-known phrase, “to bridge the gap between academia and business”.
For example, here is an excerpt from a The Economist article, which can be accessed via the link below: (also notice the heading: The disposable academic: Why doing a PhD is often a waste of time)
“(…)Whining PhD students are nothing new, but there seem to be genuine problems with the system that produces research doctorates (the practical “professional doctorates” in fields such as law, business and medicine have a more obvious value).(…)”
http://www.economist.com/node/17723223
I have no intention of discrediting a PhD. Actually, I have respect for all kinds of true research endeavour. I just wanted give an example for how opinions may vary about this.

3. Many well-respected universities offer DBA programmes, and new ones continue to join. To count just a few; UK: Durham, Warwick, Manchester, etc., US: University of Florida (Warrington), University of Wisconsin (Whitewater), Washington University in St. Louis (Olin), etc. This is a supportive indicator, in my view, since I don’t think that prestigious institutions like these would put their reputations at risk by offering non-reputable degree programmes.

4. Yes, the DBA is mainly for senior professionals who want to develop doctoral level research capabilities, however a career in academia is also possible with a DBA, since it is a research doctorate. This can easily be verified by doing a simple Linkedin search. This is especially true for a part-time academic career along with an ongoing professional career.

Before finishing, @Efan, I can suggest that perhaps you may have a look at Middlesex University (London) DBA programme, which I think can be suitable for your requirements, along with many other alternatives, of course. The programme has little mandatory on-campus attendance, however offers full flexibility for face-to-face contact and on-campus study. The University has some significant experience in WBL (work-based learning), which is an approach closely related to a professional-practice based research doctorate. The University’s Business School is listed among the QS Global Top 200, and the University itself is ranked among the global top 700 and top 800 in the QS and THE rankings respectively. (Yes, I am currently studying there, so I am taking care not to give an impression of even a smallest bias. Most of what I have written here are therefore not my own experience or evaluation, but independently published facts and figures.)
quote
Duncan
1. No. The DBA is not just like the PhD. As I pointed out above, "in a traditional PhD (like the one I am taking) I have a lot of coursework beyond core methods, I work as a teaching assistant, I am an assistant to professors on a wide range of research projects, I get training as a teacher and HEA membership and meet my supervisor frequently." The admissions are not more rigourous for the DBA: just compare the selection rates. At Edinburgh, for example, we had 500 applicants for the 20 seats in my PhD intake.

2. Obviously opinions are from people, so that makes your view as subjective as mine. How can someone assess the difference? For example, they can look at job adverts can see which jobs ask for PhDs and which ask for PhDs or DBAs. They can compare curricula. They can compare the publication record of PhD and DBA students at the same institutions in respected journals... there are many objective ways to compare the outcomes. They are not the same.

3. and 4. No-one is saying that the DBA programmes at top schools are not reputable, and this candidate is not looking at top schools. But they are not respected **as routes into academia**, and most places that would accept a DBA rather than a PhD would also accept no doctorate at all. That is also observable in academic job adverts. Attending IESE, for example, is not an effective route to find work in Japan. That does not mean it is not reputable, simple that it's nt effective for that path.

Honestly, if this person wants to teach in the broadest range of universities does anyone think they would be better suited in a doctorate by work-based learning than by a part-time PhD at a traditional university?

[Edited by Duncan on Nov 13, 2015]

1. No. The DBA is not just like the PhD. As I pointed out above, "in a traditional PhD (like the one I am taking) I have a lot of coursework beyond core methods, I work as a teaching assistant, I am an assistant to professors on a wide range of research projects, I get training as a teacher and HEA membership and meet my supervisor frequently." The admissions are not more rigourous for the DBA: just compare the selection rates. At Edinburgh, for example, we had 500 applicants for the 20 seats in my PhD intake.

2. Obviously opinions are from people, so that makes your view as subjective as mine. How can someone assess the difference? For example, they can look at job adverts can see which jobs ask for PhDs and which ask for PhDs or DBAs. They can compare curricula. They can compare the publication record of PhD and DBA students at the same institutions in respected journals... there are many objective ways to compare the outcomes. They are not the same.

3. and 4. No-one is saying that the DBA programmes at top schools are not reputable, and this candidate is not looking at top schools. But they are not respected **as routes into academia**, and most places that would accept a DBA rather than a PhD would also accept no doctorate at all. That is also observable in academic job adverts. Attending IESE, for example, is not an effective route to find work in Japan. That does not mean it is not reputable, simple that it's nt effective for that path.

Honestly, if this person wants to teach in the broadest range of universities does anyone think they would be better suited in a doctorate by work-based learning than by a part-time PhD at a traditional university?
quote
sts
I do not know your specific programme requirements, however what I know is that a typical UK doctorate does have a strong emphasis on research, with little or no taught component (apart from those starting by taking some master's level courses i.e. the integrated route). See the Vitae website, for example: "In the UK there is usually little or no taught element to a doctorate" (https://www.vitae.ac.uk/doing-research/are-you-thinking-of-doing-a-phd/what-is-a-doctorate-1). As opposed to your statements, it is -not always but generally- the DBA programmes which have more taught components, as far as I know from my research so far.

In my view, you are mistaken in your statement that most places accepting DBAs as academics would accept no doctorate as well. To see job ads like "a PhD or DBA...", "a PhD or equivalent", "a research doctorate", perhaps you may just want to have a look at jobs.ac.uk, and various other job boards.

Efan started his post by mentioning his intention to have a part-time or visiting academic position along with professional career, with full time academic career being an option, so a professional doctorate may also be quite relevant.

Lastly, QAA clearly classifies the DBA in the same category with the PhD and other doctorates, thus making them equivalent, without doubt.

[Edited by sts on Nov 14, 2015]

I do not know your specific programme requirements, however what I know is that a typical UK doctorate does have a strong emphasis on research, with little or no taught component (apart from those starting by taking some master's level courses i.e. the integrated route). See the Vitae website, for example: "In the UK there is usually little or no taught element to a doctorate" (https://www.vitae.ac.uk/doing-research/are-you-thinking-of-doing-a-phd/what-is-a-doctorate-1). As opposed to your statements, it is -not always but generally- the DBA programmes which have more taught components, as far as I know from my research so far.

In my view, you are mistaken in your statement that most places accepting DBAs as academics would accept no doctorate as well. To see job ads like "a PhD or DBA...", "a PhD or equivalent", "a research doctorate", perhaps you may just want to have a look at jobs.ac.uk, and various other job boards.

Efan started his post by mentioning his intention to have a part-time or visiting academic position along with professional career, with full time academic career being an option, so a professional doctorate may also be quite relevant.

Lastly, QAA clearly classifies the DBA in the same category with the PhD and other doctorates, thus making them equivalent, without doubt.
quote
Duncan
Look, it's simply not the case any more. I struggle to think that there are many British universities that do not have either a taught component or a requirement to have a a research masters. 20 years ago, maybe, but certainly in the Russell group it's normal to have a full academic year of coursework and supervised reading. DBAs have less, not more.

I just took a look at jobs.ac.uk, as you suggested, and there's only one role (of course, at a former polytechnic which runs a DBA) that says it would accept a DBA.

The DBA is a doctorate, as is a PhD. Indeed they are equivalent in level. But that does not mean they are the same, any more than an MD and a JD are the same. To enter into academia, the PhD is by far the more widely accepted qualification.
Look, it's simply not the case any more. I struggle to think that there are many British universities that do not have either a taught component or a requirement to have a a research masters. 20 years ago, maybe, but certainly in the Russell group it's normal to have a full academic year of coursework and supervised reading. DBAs have less, not more.

I just took a look at jobs.ac.uk, as you suggested, and there's only one role (of course, at a former polytechnic which runs a DBA) that says it would accept a DBA.

The DBA is a doctorate, as is a PhD. Indeed they are equivalent in level. But that does not mean they are the same, any more than an MD and a JD are the same. To enter into academia, the PhD is by far the more widely accepted qualification.
quote
sts
They are equivalent but clearly not the same, agreed. That's what I wrote at the very beginning of my first reply. There are differences in the type of research, target audience, and desired -primary- outcomes. For a full time faculty position, a PhD is the surest way to go, this is also agreed, but still possible with a DBA as well. The word PhD is used almost synonymously with a doctorate, normally, so even if the requirement for a position is given as PhD, you may find that a DBA would also be welcome when you ask specifically (I did).

What I therefore try to point out is that both of them are research doctorates, and an academic career with a DBA is also possible, though it may not be the primary purpose of a DBA, generally. They are different, but equivalent, and not either one is inferior to the other. That's the point I have come after some significant reading in various resources.

Particularly for a kind of hybrid career path, blending a professional career with also a presence in academia, the DBA may work quite well.

Regards,

[Edited by sts on Nov 14, 2015]

They are equivalent but clearly not the same, agreed. That's what I wrote at the very beginning of my first reply. There are differences in the type of research, target audience, and desired -primary- outcomes. For a full time faculty position, a PhD is the surest way to go, this is also agreed, but still possible with a DBA as well. The word PhD is used almost synonymously with a doctorate, normally, so even if the requirement for a position is given as PhD, you may find that a DBA would also be welcome when you ask specifically (I did).

What I therefore try to point out is that both of them are research doctorates, and an academic career with a DBA is also possible, though it may not be the primary purpose of a DBA, generally. They are different, but equivalent, and not either one is inferior to the other. That's the point I have come after some significant reading in various resources.

Particularly for a kind of hybrid career path, blending a professional career with also a presence in academia, the DBA may work quite well.

Regards,
quote
Efan
Thank you all very much for your contribution to this thread! All replies are highly appreciated and of course help a lot into clearing out my options!

Just to give an update to Duncan with regard to the university options we have discussed about, from most Finnish universities that I have a reply so far, none of them accepts the external candidate option. I am still waiting a reply from 1-2 universities from Finland and for the ones I mentioned in Sweden. But for most in Finland, the reply was negative. However, I am in touch with WHU in Germany to check the option of the external candidate with them. This is a well-respected business school as far as I know, so if this works out I believe it will be a very interesting option and definitely a good one! Let's see their reply though.

As for the options given by cvm, most were not suitable due to a variety of reasons. Many were on-campus, while others were extremely expensive (especially the US ones) or inappropriate for my needs (PhD/DBA) as there were some MSc or Diploma options. But in any case, thanks a lot for this information! Highly appreciated as well!

As for the Middlesex DBA option, this is quite expensive as well! I mean, at this price level there are also other options, like the Leicester PhD for example, which is a good university. But thanks also for this option, it's good to know that there is also this one!

Efan
Thank you all very much for your contribution to this thread! All replies are highly appreciated and of course help a lot into clearing out my options!

Just to give an update to Duncan with regard to the university options we have discussed about, from most Finnish universities that I have a reply so far, none of them accepts the external candidate option. I am still waiting a reply from 1-2 universities from Finland and for the ones I mentioned in Sweden. But for most in Finland, the reply was negative. However, I am in touch with WHU in Germany to check the option of the external candidate with them. This is a well-respected business school as far as I know, so if this works out I believe it will be a very interesting option and definitely a good one! Let's see their reply though.

As for the options given by cvm, most were not suitable due to a variety of reasons. Many were on-campus, while others were extremely expensive (especially the US ones) or inappropriate for my needs (PhD/DBA) as there were some MSc or Diploma options. But in any case, thanks a lot for this information! Highly appreciated as well!

As for the Middlesex DBA option, this is quite expensive as well! I mean, at this price level there are also other options, like the Leicester PhD for example, which is a good university. But thanks also for this option, it's good to know that there is also this one!

Efan
quote
Duncan
A.friend.of mine did the Leicester DocSocSci and found that very extensive and well structured. Also look at the Pecs international PhD, perhaps. But German state unis will be great value.
A.friend.of mine did the Leicester DocSocSci and found that very extensive and well structured. Also look at the Pecs international PhD, perhaps. But German state unis will be great value.
quote
Efan
Duncan, indeed, the Leicester programme seems at least of good value. An MBA ex-classmate of mine in Bradford enrolled to this programme lately and he is pretty satisfied. So, since he has a good educational background with the Bradford MBA, I kind of trust his opinion on Leicester. So, eventually the Leicester programme is maybe the best option I have under these specific circumstances (location and time restrictions), if I end up paying such amount. However, I am still in touch with WHU, which is also a very good option and cheaper than Leicester, so let's see how this turns out.. :)

As for the Pecs programme, this seems like a good one as well but there are two issues with that. First, the location problem that requires to be present at least ten days per semester on-campus and the second is the tuition, which is higher to WHU's and more or less at the same level to Leicester's, so talking about this fee level I don't know if Pecs would be a better option than WHU or Leicester..

Of course, if anyone has any other proposal/alternative, it will be much appreciated!!

Cheers!

Efan
Duncan, indeed, the Leicester programme seems at least of good value. An MBA ex-classmate of mine in Bradford enrolled to this programme lately and he is pretty satisfied. So, since he has a good educational background with the Bradford MBA, I kind of trust his opinion on Leicester. So, eventually the Leicester programme is maybe the best option I have under these specific circumstances (location and time restrictions), if I end up paying such amount. However, I am still in touch with WHU, which is also a very good option and cheaper than Leicester, so let's see how this turns out.. :)

As for the Pecs programme, this seems like a good one as well but there are two issues with that. First, the location problem that requires to be present at least ten days per semester on-campus and the second is the tuition, which is higher to WHU's and more or less at the same level to Leicester's, so talking about this fee level I don't know if Pecs would be a better option than WHU or Leicester..

Of course, if anyone has any other proposal/alternative, it will be much appreciated!!

Cheers!

Efan
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